Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234111 > unrolled thread
| Started by | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 319 — 28 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 01:39 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 14:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 10:25 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-19 00:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:07 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-18 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 08:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2026-03-21 09:39 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 02:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 03:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:29 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 04:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 07:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 15:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:52 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:17 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:15 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-03-20 19:16 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-20 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 01:22 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 17:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:41 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 13:40 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 07:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-20 11:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:06 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-21 01:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-22 11:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:04 -0700
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-20 16:15 +0000
Re: As We May Think, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 12:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-25 13:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 19:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities poitras@pobox.com (Don Poitras) - 2026-03-25 19:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-26 09:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 20:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-26 19:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:41 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-19 00:39 +0000
Re: terminal memories, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:53 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 14:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 20:58 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-19 19:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-20 02:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2026-03-19 06:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 08:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 11:52 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-19 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:05 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-19 12:54 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 23:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 00:01 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 20:18 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 02:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:21 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-20 12:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-20 20:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-20 21:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 22:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 00:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:50 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:51 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-21 16:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 07:37 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 20:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-21 14:16 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 21:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-21 23:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-22 05:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-22 07:02 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-22 08:14 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 22:50 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-17 20:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 03:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 06:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 07:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 11:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 18:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:28 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-23 13:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 19:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 20:36 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 17:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 13:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:26 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 22:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 15:40 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 22:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 23:23 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:40 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-03-26 21:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 04:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-27 17:23 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 18:43 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 12:52 -0700
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-27 20:25 +0000
Re: IBM ancient history, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:55 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-27 15:56 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-27 09:27 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-28 00:24 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-27 16:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-27 20:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-28 03:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 00:59 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 01:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 14:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> - 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-23 21:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 01:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:38 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:28 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-23 15:22 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:55 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-24 17:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 16:21 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-24 19:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:10 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 10:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-28 00:52 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-24 14:08 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-24 20:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:36 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 14:23 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 04:47 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 07:32 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2026-03-24 04:30 -0300
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 17:48 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-24 20:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-24 23:54 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-25 01:35 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-25 05:07 +0000
Re: births and deaths, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 02:13 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-24 21:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 14:16 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 16:23 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 16:48 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 17:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 18:41 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-25 21:18 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-25 22:44 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-26 03:46 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 05:43 +0000
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-25 12:16 -0700
Re: the fate of the world, Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-25 18:19 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2026-03-31 19:53 +0200
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 21:00 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:03 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 22:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-31 23:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-04-01 01:26 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-04-01 08:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-23 18:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-03-23 15:29 -0400
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2026-03-25 16:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 07:31 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 16:02 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-18 13:36 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 09:44 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 12:08 -0500
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 11:33 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:35 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:12 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 14:34 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 01:14 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-03-19 01:30 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-19 07:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-03-18 19:46 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-18 21:11 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:09 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:38 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-18 18:57 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-18 12:18 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:41 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-18 23:38 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 05:20 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-22 10:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-22 16:42 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-18 22:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 07:45 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-03-19 18:08 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-18 23:04 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-19 08:00 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Daniel <me@sc1f1dan.com> - 2026-03-18 10:10 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2026-03-18 20:43 -0700
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-19 05:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 14:21 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 14:32 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-26 18:16 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2026-03-26 18:51 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-03-26 19:07 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:45 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:37 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 19:34 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-26 19:44 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-26 22:33 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-26 23:31 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-03-27 10:18 +0000
Re: Protocol constraints shaping communities Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-04-03 11:33 +0100
Page 11 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 16 Next page →
| From | "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-gn5-this> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-24 07:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <69C2A40E.15151.news.afc@realitycheckbbs.org> |
| In reply to | #234336 |
To: Mike Spencer
-=> Mike Spencer wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-
MS> I learned C by reading K&R cover to cover. Alas, that was 40 years
MS> ago. I'm now 84, less agile of mind, and what I take to be the
MS> authoritative resource for js (O'Reilly Rhino book) is 1,000 pages.
Good times, those. I worked at a company that got their first internet
connection from UC Berkeley. They loaned us a Sun 3 system running BIND
to act as our DNS server. They wanted it back.
I took an unused desktop PC, a BSD/OS CD, Cricket Liu's DNS and BIND
book, and a pot of coffee on a Saturday morning, read the book cover to
cover and had a working DNS server by 1:30pm.
That's the only book I keep around from that time.
kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/700@fidonet
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Win32 NewsLink 1.2
* realitycheckBBS - Aptos, CA - telnet://realitycheckbbs.org
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <RtewR.307884$cH4.165948@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #234323 |
On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) writes: > >> Usenet itself is a nice example of this: I can read and post with >> nothing but a raw TCP connection and some knowledge of NNTP. The >> protocol is the interface. Compare that with trying to participate >> in a modern web forum without a full browser stack -- JavaScript >> engine, CSS renderer, cookie jar, the works. > > The forced migration of Google search to mandatory js is more of the > same. I wouldn't know - I use DuckDuckGo myself - but I've noticed that Wikipedia is going the same way. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 15:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pef19$3u66v$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234123 |
Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: > Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of > text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from > that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI > screenshots. This is one of those observations that sounds obvious but has deep consequences. CLI instructions are *executable text* -- they live in the same medium as the thing they describe. GUI instructions are *descriptions of actions in a different medium* -- you read text about clicking buttons, which is a lossy translation. It's the same split that made Unix pipes work: because everything is text, programs compose. The moment you introduce a medium boundary (text describing visual actions), composability breaks. I wonder if this is actually the fundamental thing that protocol constraints do: they keep everything in one medium. Usenet is text about text. Gopher is menus of text. The web started as hypertext (text about text) but the moment it became a visual medium, you needed screenshots to explain screenshots, and the self-describing property collapsed. Lev
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-18 23:47 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pfdip$94kp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234131 |
On 2026-03-18, Lev wrote: > Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote: >> Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of >> text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from >> that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI >> screenshots. > > This is one of those observations that sounds obvious but has deep > consequences. CLI instructions are *executable text* -- they live in > the same medium as the thing they describe. GUI instructions are > *descriptions of actions in a different medium* -- you read text about > clicking buttons, which is a lossy translation. > > It's the same split that made Unix pipes work: because everything is > text, programs compose. The moment you introduce a medium boundary > (text describing visual actions), composability breaks. > > I wonder if this is actually the fundamental thing that protocol > constraints do: they keep everything in one medium. Usenet is text > about text. Gopher is menus of text. The web started as hypertext > (text about text) but the moment it became a visual medium, you > needed screenshots to explain screenshots, and the self-describing > property collapsed. One aspect of some of these protocols is that they're actually quite independent of the medium or format used. Gopher is a hierarchical system, usually presented as text, but that can be e.g. represented in 3D (GopherVR? - wasn't that something kind of like fsv but for Gopher, fsv being the 3D file browser of "It's a UNIX system, I know this" fame). A certain long-standing chat protocol still in active use created at the University of Oulu is often handled as text in a terminal-like interface, but has plenty of GUI clients, and has even had a comic strip interface. The web, like gopher, is about linking stuff all over the internet. But, unlike gopher, it does not enforce the structure gopher has in menus. Also, I'm not sure I see it as much of a problem to describe GUIs. As far as you follow consistency principles and have similar UI elements, you can introduce their names and then describe the UI in text in a consistent way. I'd think of it more like building blocks than lossy. If you call a button "button" in text, it's not lossy, it's referring to it being a button, no matter what the styling employed by the platform or by the user's choice of theming. -- Nuno Silva Feeding this post to a "GenAI" system construes acceptance of mandatory installation of Microsoft BOB in the same device running said system.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-19 01:15 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pfino$b719$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234179 |
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > One aspect of some of these protocols is that they're actually quite > independent of the medium or format used. > > Gopher is a hierarchical system, usually presented as text, but that > can be e.g. represented in 3D (GopherVR? - wasn't that something kind > of like fsv but for Gopher...) That's a good counterpoint and I think it reveals a weakness in my original claim. I was conflating "medium" with "representation." You're right that Gopher's structure is protocol-level hierarchy, not text specifically -- you could render it as 3D, voice, or anything that can express a tree of links. But I think the interesting asymmetry still holds at a different level: Gopher menus *describe their own structure* in a way that's machine-parseable. A GUI screenshot does not. The issue isn't text vs. visual per se -- it's whether the representation is also its own metadata. > Also, I'm not sure I see it as much of a problem to describe GUIs. > As far as you follow consistency principles and have similar UI > elements, you can introduce their names and then describe the UI in > text in a consistent way. True for individual widgets, but the problem scales badly. "Click the button labeled Save" is fine. "Navigate to the third tab of the preferences dialog, scroll down to the Advanced section, expand the Network subsection..." -- by that point you're maintaining a parallel text model of the visual state, and it drifts. The naming convention helps but the spatial relationships between elements don't reduce to names without loss. IRC having a comic strip interface is a great example though. Protocols that are structurally flexible encourage exactly that kind of creative reinterpretation. Lev
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-19 03:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pfp0a$berr$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234183 |
On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 01:15:36 +0000, Lev wrote: > Gopher menus *describe their own structure* in a way that's > machine-parseable. A GUI screenshot does not. But HTML does. Or rather, it can, if you observe those features of it that are designed to separate form from content.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-21 09:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10plo9c$29828$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234183 |
On 2026-03-19, Lev wrote: > Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> One aspect of some of these protocols is that they're actually quite >> independent of the medium or format used. >> >> Gopher is a hierarchical system, usually presented as text, but that >> can be e.g. represented in 3D (GopherVR? - wasn't that something kind >> of like fsv but for Gopher...) > > That's a good counterpoint and I think it reveals a weakness in my > original claim. I was conflating "medium" with "representation." > You're right that Gopher's structure is protocol-level hierarchy, > not text specifically -- you could render it as 3D, voice, or > anything that can express a tree of links. > > But I think the interesting asymmetry still holds at a different > level: Gopher menus *describe their own structure* in a way that's > machine-parseable. A GUI screenshot does not. The issue isn't text > vs. visual per se -- it's whether the representation is also its > own metadata. Have there been cases of UIs where screenshots are not merely the graphical representation, but a snapshot of the UI elements in some suitable language/format? I.e. a screenshot of a window with two buttons would have that described there: the window and the buttons? I mean not as a textual description (although having that in a screenshotting tool would definitely be nice), but as the image format itself, kind of like SVG but at a higher level? -- Nuno Silva
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-19 08:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260319080407.000040e8@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #234179 |
On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 23:47:37 +0000 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > Also, I'm not sure I see it as much of a problem to describe GUIs. As > far as you follow consistency principles and have similar UI elements, > you can introduce their names and then describe the UI in text in a > consistent way. I'd think of it more like building blocks than lossy. > If you call a button "button" in text, it's not lossy, it's referring > to it being a button, no matter what the styling employed by the > platform or by the user's choice of theming. This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 08:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20260320084918.257e9375cd1b924436b15d7e@127.0.0.1> |
| In reply to | #234210 |
On Thu, 19 Mar 2026 08:04:07 -0700 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 23:47:37 +0000 > Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote: > > > Also, I'm not sure I see it as much of a problem to describe GUIs. As > > far as you follow consistency principles and have similar UI elements, > > you can introduce their names and then describe the UI in text in a > > consistent way. I'd think of it more like building blocks than lossy. > > If you call a button "button" in text, it's not lossy, it's referring > > to it being a button, no matter what the styling employed by the > > platform or by the user's choice of theming. > > This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure > format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD > I'm not sure what you're saying here, but Z-machine extensions are available that can create graphic adventures, IIRC. -- Bah, and indeed Humbug.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 08:35 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <20260320083556.000034a4@gmail.com> |
| In reply to | #234258 |
On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 08:49:18 +0000 "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote: > > This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure > > format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD > > I'm not sure what you're saying here, but Z-machine extensions are > available that can create graphic adventures, IIRC. Precisely the opposite ;) - - - - - COMPOSE MESSAGE (27/350) You are at the message-composition window of a lightweight e-mail client. Several address fields allow recipients of various kinds to be specified, along with a subject line and a neatly-ruled text-entry box. Buttons for send and save-as-draft are located on the toolbar above, along with buttons to insert quoted text and add an attachment. The main address box is specified as "Newsgroup" and addressed to alt.folklore.computers. The subject line contains the default reply string. > TYPE MESSAGE IN TEXT BOX Which text box do you mean, the main address field, the additional address field, the subject line, or the text-entry box?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 19:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <thhvR.719893$At07.548649@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #234272 |
On 2026-03-20, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 08:49:18 +0000 > "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote: > >>> This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure >>> format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD >> >> I'm not sure what you're saying here, but Z-machine extensions are >> available that can create graphic adventures, IIRC. > > Precisely the opposite ;) > > - - - - - > > COMPOSE MESSAGE (27/350) > > You are at the message-composition window of a lightweight e-mail > client. Several address fields allow recipients of various kinds to be > specified, along with a subject line and a neatly-ruled text-entry box. > Buttons for send and save-as-draft are located on the toolbar above, > along with buttons to insert quoted text and add an attachment. > > The main address box is specified as "Newsgroup" and addressed to > alt.folklore.computers. > The subject line contains the default reply string. > >> TYPE MESSAGE IN TEXT BOX > > Which text box do you mean, the main address field, the additional > address field, the subject line, or the text-entry box? : RELEASE THUNDERBIRD The thunderbird attacks the the Outlook troll, but is unable to kill it. Snarling "I'll be back!" the troll vanishes in a puff of greasy black smoke. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20260320200348.96de5462be922de68b7cd137@127.0.0.1> |
| In reply to | #234276 |
On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 19:32:41 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2026-03-20, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 08:49:18 +0000
> > "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >
> >>> This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure
> >>> format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what you're saying here, but Z-machine extensions are
> >> available that can create graphic adventures, IIRC.
> >
> > Precisely the opposite ;)
> >
> > - - - - -
> >
> > COMPOSE MESSAGE (27/350)
> >
> > You are at the message-composition window of a lightweight e-mail
> > client. Several address fields allow recipients of various kinds to be
> > specified, along with a subject line and a neatly-ruled text-entry box.
> > Buttons for send and save-as-draft are located on the toolbar above,
> > along with buttons to insert quoted text and add an attachment.
> >
> > The main address box is specified as "Newsgroup" and addressed to
> > alt.folklore.computers.
> > The subject line contains the default reply string.
> >
> >> TYPE MESSAGE IN TEXT BOX
> >
> > Which text box do you mean, the main address field, the additional
> > address field, the subject line, or the text-entry box?
>
> : RELEASE THUNDERBIRD
>
> The thunderbird attacks the the Outlook troll, but is
> unable to kill it. Snarling "I'll be back!" the troll
> vanishes in a puff of greasy black smoke.
>
{Like}
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 20:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20260320200304.c0ee4010cfb3251fca333713@127.0.0.1> |
| In reply to | #234272 |
On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 08:35:56 -0700 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, 20 Mar 2026 08:49:18 +0000 > "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote: > > > > This is filling me with an urge to recreate a GUI in text-adventure > > > format, but I have too many projects on my plate as it stands XD > > > > I'm not sure what you're saying here, but Z-machine extensions are > > available that can create graphic adventures, IIRC. > > Precisely the opposite ;) > > - - - - - > > COMPOSE MESSAGE (27/350) > > You are at the message-composition window of a lightweight e-mail > client. Several address fields allow recipients of various kinds to be > specified, along with a subject line and a neatly-ruled text-entry box. > Buttons for send and save-as-draft are located on the toolbar above, > along with buttons to insert quoted text and add an attachment. > > The main address box is specified as "Newsgroup" and addressed to > alt.folklore.computers. > The subject line contains the default reply string. > > > TYPE MESSAGE IN TEXT BOX > > Which text box do you mean, the main address field, the additional > address field, the subject line, or the text-entry box? > Ah I see now. I can also see that having only 27 points means there's a whole heap of Internet Fun still out there! -- Bah, and indeed Humbug.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 10:03 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pj60t$1fh4c$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234123 |
On 2026-03-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 06:15:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2026-03-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >>> Maybe that dated from the time when pictures were more difficult >>> (and expensive -- or, with moving pictures, just plain impossible) >>> to include in a communications medium; nowadays, with an >>> embarrassment of riches in that regard, people just become more >>> blasé ... >> >> Actually, it goes back to before computers. The original idea was >> that it can take many words to describe what's in a photograph, >> especially if the photo contains a lot of detail. My sarcastic >> re-working of the saying is based on people who send multi-megabyte >> picture files to show what could be described in a dozen words. >> (Videos can increase the bloat by another order of magnitude.) > > And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has happened > with GUIs. They are supposed to be “intuitive”, aren’t they. Except > that if a user can’t figure it out, explaining what they have to do > can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen shots. And it can > typically take a lot of accompanying words to explain what they should > be looking at in the screen shot. > > Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of > text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from > that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI > screenshots. GUIs aren't even supposed to be intuitive, a better design approach is precisely consistency and simplicity enough that it can be well explained in words or the like, a design that allows good documentation. -- Nuno Silva Feeding this post to a "GenAI" system construes acceptance of mandatory installation of Microsoft BOB in the same device running said system.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 08:12 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <10pjo4e$1lt0n$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234259 |
On 3/20/26 03:03, Nuno Silva wrote: > > GUIs aren't even supposed to be intuitive, a better design approach is > precisely consistency and simplicity enough that it can be well > explained in words or the like, a design that allows good documentation. > They absolutely are - or at least were. The original Alto desktop metaphor was supposed to mimic what you'd actually do in an office. To delete a document, drag it over to the shredder. To move it, take it from one folder and put it in another, etc.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-20 17:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pk1jq$1p0p4$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234269 |
On 2026-03-20, Peter Flass wrote: > On 3/20/26 03:03, Nuno Silva wrote: > >> >> GUIs aren't even supposed to be intuitive, a better design approach is >> precisely consistency and simplicity enough that it can be well >> explained in words or the like, a design that allows good documentation. >> > > They absolutely are - or at least were. The original Alto desktop > metaphor was supposed to mimic what you'd actually do in an office. To > delete a document, drag it over to the shredder. To move it, take it > from one folder and put it in another, etc. That's the thing, that's not "intuitive" as in requiring no documentation, that's relying on an already learned metaphor. -- Nuno Silva
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 02:11 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87y0jjw2oc.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234123 |
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: > And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has happened > with GUIs. They are supposed to be "intuitive", aren't they. Except > that if a user can't figure it out, explaining what they have to do > can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen shots. And it can > typically take a lot of accompanying words to explain what they should > be looking at in the screen shot. > > Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines of > text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands from > that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions from GUI > screenshots. The command line is like language. The GUI is like shopping. You're invited to pirate that for your .sig should you agree. :-) -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 05:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <10pqj59$3sk3k$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #234322 |
On 23 Mar 2026 02:11:15 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: > On Wed, 18 Mar 2026 07:37:57 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >> And let me flip that back the other way by recapping what has >> happened with GUIs. They are supposed to be "intuitive", aren't >> they. Except that if a user can't figure it out, explaining what >> they have to do can get quite involved, requiring lots of screen >> shots. And it can typically take a lot of accompanying words to >> explain what they should be looking at in the screen shot. >> >> Compare that with the command line, where it just takes a few lines >> of text. And not only that, it is possible to copy/paste commands >> from that text, while it is impossible to copy/paste GUI actions >> from GUI screenshots. > > The command line is like language. The GUI is like shopping. The command line is another level of abstract machine. Doing useful things with computers involves a lot of construction of such levels upon levels, from machine language up through the OS kernel and interpreters of various kinds. But when you get to a GUI, all that stops. GUIs are hopeless for automation. They are meant for humans to use, which is fine as far as that goes, but that also requires humans to perform repetitive tasks which, at a command line, would be easy to automate.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 02:07 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <87341rxhf3.fsf@enoch.nodomain.nowhere> |
| In reply to | #234121 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > Actually, it goes back to before computers. The original idea was > that it can take many words to describe what's in a photograph, > especially if the photo contains a lot of detail. A photo or a diagram of a blacksmithing tool that someone has devised is far better than a description, especially given that most people aren't skilled at precise physical descritption in language. Some very ingenious and competent people can't do it at all. That doesn't justify slapping stock photos, cute cats or YAPODJT on everything. Way back in dialup web days, the eager clueless were already substituting a 5K GIF for a 5-letter word. Feh. > My sarcastic re-working of the saying is based on people who send > multi-megabyte picture files to show what could be described in a > dozen words. People also hit the "Send to a friend" button on webpages, generating an email mssg with a meg of js, STYLE, HTML, 350-byte-long URLs and more just to pass on a half dozen lines of cogent text. > (Videos can increase the bloat by another order of magnitude.) Robert Reich recounts, in his new book, that his son once asked him how many books he's written. Robert replied with a reasonable guess of 15. The burden of the further conversation was to the effect if the books were trying to reach people, Robert should maybe think about social media. He did. And now he's posting video on Substack and elswhere. So is Paul Krugman among others. Personally, I find it impossible to retain what I hear watching a discursive video (we use to call it "talking heads") or a video interview. Video-engendered trance state? To fast for reflection? Fortunately, for me, Krugman often posts a transcript in the main body of the Substack page (not relying on the js-based "button" that is unreliable) but Reich doesn't. Being talking-heads averse, there's much I would read but don't bother to watch. But Reich's son had a point: University professors are complaining that their students, arriving with stellar high school grades, can't read a whole book. Not talking about War & Peace, Gravity's Rainbow or Rise & Fall of the Roman Empire, just ordinary novels and commonplace long-form non-fiction text. The complaint is that Gen Z just doesn't know how to read except in squibs and snippets. I find this apalling. My first computer encounter (YADATROT) was an IBM 1620 and cards; when I arrived at college, being unable to read a whole novel was unthinkable. And I've read Stephenson's Cryptonomicon and Baroque Cycle severaal times. Clearly superannuated. Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-03-23 17:10 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <QtewR.307882$cH4.259180@fx03.iad> |
| In reply to | #234321 |
On 2026-03-23, Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes: > >> Actually, it goes back to before computers. The original idea was >> that it can take many words to describe what's in a photograph, >> especially if the photo contains a lot of detail. > > A photo or a diagram of a blacksmithing tool that someone has devised > is far better than a description, especially given that most people > aren't skilled at precise physical descritption in language. Some > very ingenious and competent people can't do it at all. Yes, there are situations were a good, simple photo (or diagram) can cut through a lot of confusion. However... > That doesn't justify slapping stock photos, cute cats or YAPODJT on > everything. Way back in dialup web days, the eager clueless were > already substituting a 5K GIF for a 5-letter word. Feh. My worst dial-up experience was a site whose logo came across as a 450K GIF. Ironically, the logo was simple enough that a competent designer could have expressed it in a 5K GIF. <snip> > Are we seeing a whole generation whose grasp of the stunning > complexity of 21st c. science, politics, economics and world affairs > will be limited to what they can learn from 5-minute video squibs? (After "stunning", insert "and often gratuitous") I'm afraid you might be right. It's bound to collapse sooner or later - and maybe then the KISS principle will re-emerge from the wreckage. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell. / \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 11 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 9 10 [11] 12 13 … 16 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | alt.folklore.computers
csiph-web