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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230668 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 341 — 35 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.folklore.computers
General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700
Page 1 of 18 [1] 2 3 … 18 Next page →
| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000 |
| Subject | General Thoughts ... |
| Message-ID | <slrn100pnsk.3f0p.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
Since traffic is presently so light ... In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board service processor for debugging. But these guys are building CPU implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of register files versus L1 cache sizes. For fun and on reasonable (?) hobby budgets. I am in awe. So it feels a bit like the early days of my career, when I was a comparatively junior programmer in a data communications equipment company in the early days when the Internet was still more or less a secret guild. Before Cisco, when X.25 was the advanced infrastructure, and the company was trying to hedge their bets between TCP/IP and the ISO network architectures. I felt like I was sitting in the corner of the upper class homeroom, listening to the smart kids and admiring their work, and feeling privileged to be allowed to be there. It was much later that I appreciated that my contribution was to be able to ask questions that were not completely stupid, but were outside the bubbles that the smart guys sometimes wrapped themselves in, as well to be a generalist, more of a jack-of-many-trades-but- master-of-none. Did not make me rich, but allowed me to have more of a life outside of work. In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to figure out how to just write the script in Perl. And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. Some days I feel old ...
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| From | vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <vuip8c$s5lq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230668 |
On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote: > Since traffic is presently so light ... > > In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed > that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no > competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening > to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for > fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface > of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable > Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers > of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an > FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board > service processor for debugging. But these guys are building CPU > implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and > experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of > register files versus L1 cache sizes. For fun and on reasonable (?) > hobby budgets. I am in awe. > > So it feels a bit like the early days of my career, when I was a > comparatively junior programmer in a data communications equipment > company in the early days when the Internet was still more or less a > secret guild. Before Cisco, when X.25 was the advanced infrastructure, > and the company was trying to hedge their bets between TCP/IP and the > ISO network architectures. I felt like I was sitting in the corner of > the upper class homeroom, listening to the smart kids and admiring their > work, and feeling privileged to be allowed to be there. > > It was much later that I appreciated that my contribution was to be able > to ask questions that were not completely stupid, but were outside the > bubbles that the smart guys sometimes wrapped themselves in, as well to > be a generalist, more of a jack-of-many-trades-but- master-of-none. Did > not make me rich, but allowed me to have more of a life outside of work. > > In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they > designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design > and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to > figure out how to just write the script in Perl. > > And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools > I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my > goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages. > > Some days I feel old ... I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I am now "mostly retired".) Looking at the local community college catalogue, I found their textbook for their didactic language -- C++ -- and have been going through it. (I know only enough C++ to be dangerous, I'm much better at C.) Thank goodness I was a much more serious student the second time around (starting in 1991), because back in '85-86 I was just coasting. Ended up joining the Coast Guard, and after 4.4 years of that, I was _really_ motivated to go back to school... ObFolklore: In High School, I learned 6502 assembler, and I was patching the Corvus-adapted Apple DOS 3.3 for security enhancements -- by default, one could "CATALOG V##" and end up in a different volume, which was essentially no security to speak of... -- -Scott System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 NVIDIA RTX 3090 Ti OS: Linux 6.14.3 Release: Mint 22.1 Mem: 258G "OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to become eccentric."
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000 |
| Subject | Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrn100pstu.7p8n.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230669 |
>> Some days I feel old ... On 2025-04-26, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: > I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with > C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading > comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS > degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I > am now "mostly retired".) It must be very challenging - not to say nigh impossible - to operate an ISP business these days. At least in the USA, where the business climate and regulatory structure greatly favor large corporate entities. Telecommunications in the US seem to be two very different markets: 1) The densely populated areas, where the twin monopolies for incumbent telco, and cable TV each have the infrastructure needed for communication services. Each of them can run basic consumer grade IP services. Neither can do it very well: They all suck at email, and they hate businesses that need static IPs and unfiltered traffic to allow for servers. If you are lucky, they compete and you can negotiate. If you are VERY lucky, they have hooks that allow local datacenter operators to build the business class services on top of their infrastructure. 2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably the best hope for these areas. It seems to me that in Europe, the telco was always the provider of all communications: Landline telephones, mobile telephones, cable TV and Internet. With a good regulator, mobile phones became competitive, with 3-4 multinational operators (T-Mobile, Orange, Telenor, ..), although it would sometimes turn out that the low-level infrastructure ran on government owned shared celltowers. In the US, some midwestern college towns managed to set up municipal fiber networks, that brought "IP based cable TV" to some limited area near town. My daughter had fiber when she lived in town in Indianola, IA, but not when she moved to 5-acre ranchette 10 miles from town. I think this would have been a great model for many parts of the US, but the incumbent telcos managed to lobby state legislatures to prohibit new buildouts on this model. In my own area - Santa Barbara, CA - Cox Cable had a monopoly on anything above DSL speeds. Our incumbent telco changed branding a number of times: GTE, then Verizon, then Frontier. Only when it looked like the mobile networks might start offering fixed wireless high-speed Internet, did Frontier wake up and start building out a fiber network. It is fast and cheap, but while I did manage to get them to give me a static IP and allow me to run my own mail server and web server from my house, it is very far from business grade service. For example, the customer service line is only open Monday through Friday from 5AM to 5PM. God help you if the fiber modem loses sync at 4:30 on Friday afternoon! But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with it. One of these days, I will figure out how to put my static IP at the far end of a VPN into a cloud datacenter, but to do that I will have to learn how to spin up a virtual Linux box in such a datacenter. The only one I know that makes that a total no-brainer is Hetzner (in Germany). I am sure it can be done in AWS, but I have not found a simple cookbook for it. That would make it possible for me to pretend to be a "normal" residential customer. I wanted to get this at our small business as well, but Frontier does not offer it is our business part (on the airport land).
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <_r7PP.2570820$2zn8.1641873@fx15.iad> |
| In reply to | #230670 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: >>> Some days I feel old ... > >On 2025-04-26, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: >> I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with >> C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading >> comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS >> degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I >> am now "mostly retired".) > >It must be very challenging - not to say nigh impossible - to operate an >ISP business these days. At least in the USA, where the business climate >and regulatory structure greatly favor large corporate entities. I get my internet from a small, family-owned and run ISP (point-to-point wireless). Granted that's my only real choice, but it's highly reliable and fairly reasonable in cost. >2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service > Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service > affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or > fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for > wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service > levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of > bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably > the best hope for these areas. I'm in bucket 2, where there are several point-to-point wireless small ISP's offering up to 100mbs service. But, your general point stands, the modern business environment favors scale and profit over service. >In my own area - Santa Barbara, CA - Cox Cable had a monopoly on >anything above DSL speeds. Our incumbent telco changed branding a number >of times: GTE, then Verizon, then Frontier. Only when it looked like the >mobile networks might start offering fixed wireless high-speed Internet, >did Frontier wake up and start building out a fiber network. It is fast >and cheap, but while I did manage to get them to give me a static IP and >allow me to run my own mail server and web server from my house, it is >very far from business grade service. For example, the customer service >line is only open Monday through Friday from 5AM to 5PM. God help you if >the fiber modem loses sync at 4:30 on Friday afternoon! Frontier sent a mailer four years ago that they'd be bringing fibre to this rural area in the monterey bay region, but I'm still waiting. > >But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with Far better than I can get in both speed and cost.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrn100q25d.eisl.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230672 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: >>It must be very challenging - not to say nigh impossible - to operate an >>ISP business these days. At least in the USA, where the business climate >>and regulatory structure greatly favor large corporate entities. On 2025-04-26, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > I get my internet from a small, family-owned and run ISP (point-to-point > wireless). Granted that's my only real choice, but it's highly reliable > and fairly reasonable in cost. >>2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service >> Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service >> affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or >> fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for >> wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service >> levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of >> bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably >> the best hope for these areas. > I'm in bucket 2, where there are several point-to-point wireless small > ISP's offering up to 100mbs service. > > But, your general point stands, the modern business environment favors > scale and profit over service. >>In my own area - Santa Barbara, CA - Cox Cable had a monopoly on >>anything above DSL speeds. Our incumbent telco changed branding a number >>of times: GTE, then Verizon, then Frontier. Only when it looked like the >>mobile networks might start offering fixed wireless high-speed Internet, >>did Frontier wake up and start building out a fiber network. It is fast >>and cheap, but while I did manage to get them to give me a static IP and >>allow me to run my own mail server and web server from my house, it is >>very far from business grade service. For example, the customer service >>line is only open Monday through Friday from 5AM to 5PM. God help you if >>the fiber modem loses sync at 4:30 on Friday afternoon! > Frontier sent a mailer four years ago that they'd be bringing fibre > to this rural area in the monterey bay region, but I'm still waiting. >>But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with > Far better than I can get in both speed and cost. It felt like a small miracle when this opened up. Prior to the fiber, I had 15M/15M provisioned by a small local ISP on top of 4 bonded SDSL pairs that they in turn leased from Frontier. For this I paid $125/month, but after I had experienced 200M/200M for a while last summer, I had been looking for an upgrade. The ISP could not resell the fiber, so I got to deal with Frontier. It took 3 weeks to get the installation working as contracted. And since then I had one outage across a week-end. Some Frontier installer had accidentally disconnected my fiber from the concentrator when bringing up a new subscriber. Required on truck roll for them to identify the problem. I am still using only 100/100 because my own router is only 10/100 ethernet ports, and I have not allocated the solid time to configure up my new router with the port forwarding etc needed to make the network work behind NAT. But that feels like plenty for now.
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <mddr01etnnv.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #230670 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes:
> But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with
> it. One of these days, I will figure out how to put my static IP at the
> far end of a VPN into a cloud datacenter, but to do that I will have to
> learn how to spin up a virtual Linux box in such a datacenter.
I have a Racknerd KVM for very cheap. I note that they have a New Year 2025
offer page with something very similar to mine for $11.29/year:
https://www.racknerd.com/NewYear/
That's pocket change, IMAO.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrn100sfba.q43e.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230676 |
On 2025-04-27, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: > >> But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with >> it. One of these days, I will figure out how to put my static IP at the >> far end of a VPN into a cloud datacenter, but to do that I will have to >> learn how to spin up a virtual Linux box in such a datacenter. > > I have a Racknerd KVM for very cheap. I note that they have a New Year 2025 > offer page with something very similar to mine for $11.29/year: > > https://www.racknerd.com/NewYear/ > > That's pocket change, IMAO. That is amazing pricing. I thought the VPS I rent at Hetzner was cheap at about $10/month. The transfer allowance seems generous enough that I could do backups. I was wondering if they have "storage boxes" (CIFS or NFS mountable drives of a few hundred GB) as well? - but they don't. 24-140 GB of SSD is it; just enough for OS and a small website. Still, it seems like a neat way to get a remote static IP. And a datacenter in Seattle should have much less latency than one in Frankfurt!
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| From | Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <Frc*z0nbA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> |
| In reply to | #230684 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote: > On 2025-04-27, Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote: > > Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: > > > >> But it is 500M up/500M down at $60/month (after taxes), so I live with > >> it. One of these days, I will figure out how to put my static IP at the > >> far end of a VPN into a cloud datacenter, but to do that I will have to > >> learn how to spin up a virtual Linux box in such a datacenter. > > > > I have a Racknerd KVM for very cheap. I note that they have a New Year 2025 > > offer page with something very similar to mine for $11.29/year: > > > > https://www.racknerd.com/NewYear/ > > > > That's pocket change, IMAO. > > That is amazing pricing. I thought the VPS I rent at Hetzner was cheap > at about $10/month. The transfer allowance seems generous enough that I > could do backups. I was wondering if they have "storage boxes" (CIFS > or NFS mountable drives of a few hundred GB) as well? - but they don't. > 24-140 GB of SSD is it; just enough for OS and a small website. > Still, it seems like a neat way to get a remote static IP. And a > datacenter in Seattle should have much less latency than one in > Frankfurt! These kind of low rent VPS providers are best subscribed via offers like Black Friday etc, when there are often good deals. https://lowendbox.com/ is a good roundup of whatever providers have offers currently. They're often fairly small one man band type setups running elderly hardware, so don't host your business critical services on them. But for personal stuff where worst case you restore from backup at another provider, they're ok. I've used Racknerd and they're fine. Theo
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <vuk1mr$t7m$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #230670 |
According to Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>: >it. One of these days, I will figure out how to put my static IP at the >far end of a VPN into a cloud datacenter, but to do that I will have to >learn how to spin up a virtual Linux box in such a datacenter. I've been happy with Tornado VPS who are in the USA. They have linux and BSD VPS starting at $5/mo, with static IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. They target customers who are sophisticated enough that they already use ssh and know how to upload their public keys. "We do not assume you are stupid. Since 2005." https://tornadovps.com/ Digital Ocean, Linode/Akamai, and OVH have similar offerings but if you're OK with your VPS being in the US, I like Tornado better. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <0wtRP.53710$0jW7.52224@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #230670 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: >>> Some days I feel old ... > > On 2025-04-26, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: >> I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with >> C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading >> comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS >> degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I >> am now "mostly retired".) > > It must be very challenging - not to say nigh impossible - to operate an > ISP business these days. At least in the USA, where the business climate > and regulatory structure greatly favor large corporate entities. I knew it was all over when DSL started becoming popular and the ILEC started selling DSL to its subscribers for less than the "wholesale" price they charged the ISP I worked for. I took my Unix skills and got a job somewhere else (not an ISP). > > Telecommunications in the US seem to be two very different markets: > 1) The densely populated areas, where the twin monopolies for incumbent > telco, and cable TV each have the infrastructure needed for > communication services. Each of them can run basic consumer grade IP > services. Neither can do it very well: They all suck at email, and > they hate businesses that need static IPs and unfiltered traffic to > allow for servers. If you are lucky, they compete and you can > negotiate. If you are VERY lucky, they have hooks that allow local > datacenter operators to build the business class services on top of > their infrastructure. I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, etc. Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for internet access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home internet these days, so I guess they overpay. :=) > 2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service > Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service > affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or > fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for > wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service > levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of > bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably > the best hope for these areas. There are some interesting articles on how Jared Mauch brought good internet to his community. Very cool story. I just found one article on Ars Technica that might be a good start. > > In the US, some midwestern college towns managed to set up municipal > fiber networks, that brought "IP based cable TV" to some limited area > near town. My daughter had fiber when she lived in town in Indianola, > IA, but not when she moved to 5-acre ranchette 10 miles from town. > I think this would have been a great model for many parts of the US, but > the incumbent telcos managed to lobby state legislatures to prohibit new > buildouts on this model. The telcos and cablecos got the lawmakers in my state to prohibit communities from setting up municipal networks for internet access. :-(
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <2s8ielxbjj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #230937 |
On 2025-05-03 20:46, Bud Frede wrote: > Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: > >>>> Some days I feel old ... >> >> On 2025-04-26, vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> wrote: >>> I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with >>> C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading >>> comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS >>> degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I >>> am now "mostly retired".) >> >> It must be very challenging - not to say nigh impossible - to operate an >> ISP business these days. At least in the USA, where the business climate >> and regulatory structure greatly favor large corporate entities. > > I knew it was all over when DSL started becoming popular and the ILEC > started selling DSL to its subscribers for less than the "wholesale" > price they charged the ISP I worked for. I took my Unix skills and got a > job somewhere else (not an ISP). > >> >> Telecommunications in the US seem to be two very different markets: >> 1) The densely populated areas, where the twin monopolies for incumbent >> telco, and cable TV each have the infrastructure needed for >> communication services. Each of them can run basic consumer grade IP >> services. Neither can do it very well: They all suck at email, and >> they hate businesses that need static IPs and unfiltered traffic to >> allow for servers. If you are lucky, they compete and you can >> negotiate. If you are VERY lucky, they have hooks that allow local >> datacenter operators to build the business class services on top of >> their infrastructure. > > I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, > etc. > > Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for internet > access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home internet these > days, so I guess they overpay. :=) > > > >> 2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service >> Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service >> affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or >> fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for >> wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service >> levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of >> bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably >> the best hope for these areas. > > There are some interesting articles on how Jared Mauch brought good > internet to his community. Very cool story. > > I just found one article on Ars Technica that might be a good start. > >> >> In the US, some midwestern college towns managed to set up municipal >> fiber networks, that brought "IP based cable TV" to some limited area >> near town. My daughter had fiber when she lived in town in Indianola, >> IA, but not when she moved to 5-acre ranchette 10 miles from town. >> I think this would have been a great model for many parts of the US, but >> the incumbent telcos managed to lobby state legislatures to prohibit new >> buildouts on this model. > > The telcos and cablecos got the lawmakers in my state to prohibit > communities from setting up municipal networks for internet access. :-( A friend told me that early on, Telefónica did set up internet on a small company he later consulted for by installing an ISDN phone on each table, with a line connected to the computer. So a small office with six tables would be paying for six ISDN connections and 6 internet connections. -- Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrn101d0nv.2mog9.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230937 |
Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> writes: >> 2) The sparsely populated areas, where it takes USF (Universal Service >> Fund) money from the government (FCC) to make basic telephone service >> affordable, and nobody can figure out how to run CableTV coax or >> fiber outside of the towns. Some years ago, this created a window for >> wireless ISPs (WISPs), but today, the expectation for basic service >> levels include Netflix and ESPN on demand, and that amount of >> bandwidth is difficult at the distances needed. Starlink is probably >> the best hope for these areas. On 2025-05-03, Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> wrote: > There are some interesting articles on how Jared Mauch brought good > internet to his community. Very cool story. > > I just found one article on Ars Technica that might be a good start. That is a very cool project. And the economics seems good enough that a rural telco with economies of scale should be able to do it at a decent profit margin. >> In the US, some midwestern college towns managed to set up municipal >> fiber networks, that brought "IP based cable TV" to some limited area >> near town. My daughter had fiber when she lived in town in Indianola, >> IA, but not when she moved to 5-acre ranchette 10 miles from town. >> I think this would have been a great model for many parts of the US, but >> the incumbent telcos managed to lobby state legislatures to prohibit new >> buildouts on this model. > > The telcos and cablecos got the lawmakers in my state to prohibit > communities from setting up municipal networks for internet access. :-( What state are you in?
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <m7nhjuF7t21U4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #230937 |
On Sat, 03 May 2025 14:46:19 -0400, Bud Frede wrote: > I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, > etc. > > Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for internet > access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home internet these > days, so I guess they overpay. :=) I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use Verizon wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They dropped dialup a long time ago but I could retain the email for a nominal fee. The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole someplace else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm watching Prime video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in Salt Lake.
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| From | scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <FIsUP.82291$FH88.27262@fx12.iad> |
| In reply to | #230940 |
In article <m7nhjuF7t21U4@mid.individual.net>, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >On Sat, 03 May 2025 14:46:19 -0400, Bud Frede wrote: > >> I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, >> etc. >> >> Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for internet >> access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home internet these >> days, so I guess they overpay. :=) > >I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use Verizon >wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They dropped dialup >a long time ago but I could retain the email for a nominal fee. > >The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole someplace >else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm watching Prime >video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in Salt Lake. I run a SearxNG instance on a Linode VPS hosted in their Dallas datacenter. If there's a geographic angle that can be inferred in a search term, the search providers it's configured to use will do so, so I end up with Google, DuckDuckGo, etc. thinking that I'm somewhere in the Dallas area or in Texas more generally, regardless of where I'm actually located. For instance: https://searx.alfter.us/search?q=car+wash The top 10 results include two hits on Yelp for car washes in Richardson, TX (presumably a Dallas suburb, returned by DuckDuckGo) and in Dallas (returned by Google). If I provide the same search term to DuckDuckGo directly, it returns results for where I am. I suppose that if I cared enough about it, I'd move SearxNG from the VPS to my home server, but it doesn't matter for most of the things on which I'd run a search. If I'm looking for a local business, I'm more likely to use Google Maps. -- _/_ / v \ Scott Alfter (remove the obvious to send mail) (IIGS( https://alfter.us/ Top-posting! \_^_/ >What's the most annoying thing on Usenet?
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| From | "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <20250513094428.5c3f0008db9f38bc4572c136@127.0.0.1> |
| In reply to | #230940 |
On 3 May 2025 21:54:06 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > On Sat, 03 May 2025 14:46:19 -0400, Bud Frede wrote: > > > I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, > > etc. > > > > Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for internet > > access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home internet these > > days, so I guess they overpay. :=) > > I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use Verizon > wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They dropped dialup > a long time ago but I could retain the email for a nominal fee. > > The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole someplace > else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm watching Prime > video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in Salt Lake. I'm just curious; what products do Mormons use more of :-) -- Bah, and indeed Humbug.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <m8hj4eFct5eU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #231096 |
On Tue, 13 May 2025 09:44:28 +0100, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote: > On 3 May 2025 21:54:06 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: > >> On Sat, 03 May 2025 14:46:19 -0400, Bud Frede wrote: >> >> > I regard my current ISP as just a pipe. I don't use their mail, DNS, >> > etc. >> > >> > Things are not at all competitive in my area, so I overpay for >> > internet access. Luckily my employer covers the cost of my home >> > internet these days, so I guess they overpay. :=) >> >> I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use >> Verizon wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They >> dropped dialup a long time ago but I could retain the email for a >> nominal fee. >> >> The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole >> someplace else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm >> watching Prime video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in >> Salt Lake. > > I'm just curious; what products do Mormons use more of :-) No idea. Salt Lake City is LA East and the advertising reflects that. The Denver ads with Prime video are mostly furniture stores. Prime often promotes their own shows along with the ads and last week they were heavy on 'The Chosen' which seemed strange. It's not their creation but Jenkins, the director, managed to get a 90 day exclusivity contract with Amazon.
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| From | Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <10029th$2htkv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #230940 |
On 03/05/2025 22:54, rbowman wrote: > I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use Verizon > wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They dropped dialup > a long time ago but I could retain the email for a nominal fee. > > The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole someplace > else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm watching Prime > video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in Salt Lake. I'm in the UK, so too far won't be as far as you - but you might like this story. BT ran copper wire out to our village decades ago. I'd guess soon after WW2. Then ADSL came along, and they put it down the copper. It just about worked. VDSL didn't make it much better, 2Mb on a good day. Now we have fibre right to our houses. The fibre Just Works. No bad days. And it's gone from how fast can I have to how much do I want to pay! Andy -- Do not listen to rumour, but, if you do, do not believe it. Ghandi.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) |
| Message-ID | <slrn102s54p.dokn.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #231104 |
On 2025-05-14, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 03/05/2025 22:54, rbowman wrote: >> I'm too far from town for regular cable let alone fiber so I use Verizon >> wireless but my mail is through my former dialup ISP. They dropped dialup >> a long time ago but I could retain the email for a nominal fee. >> >> The nice thing about Verizon is it comes out of the rabbit hole someplace >> else, usually Denver so targeted ads including when I'm watching Prime >> video are for Denver. The IP has also appeared to be in Salt Lake. > > I'm in the UK, so too far won't be as far as you - but you might like > this story. > > BT ran copper wire out to our village decades ago. I'd guess soon after WW2. > > Then ADSL came along, and they put it down the copper. It just about > worked. VDSL didn't make it much better, 2Mb on a good day. > > Now we have fibre right to our houses. > > The fibre Just Works. No bad days. And it's gone from how fast can I > have to how much do I want to pay! I suspect that lots of praise should be lavished on your regulatory agency (OfTel?). Is the actual fiber installation all BT, and is the final company providing customer provisioning and customer service a competitive overlay? -- Lars Poulsen in Santa Barbara, CA
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <d3h1elxh8g.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #230669 |
On 2025-04-26 16:06, vallor wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2025 13:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> Since traffic is presently so light ...
>>
>> In addition to a.f.c, I am also lurking on comp.arch. I have noticed
>> that at there is some overlap in readership. I have absolutely no
>> competency in the innards of processor architectures, but in listening
>> to the chatter between people who design x86-level toy architectures for
>> fun, I have gained an appreciation of just how much is below the surface
>> of the modern CPUs, and how powerful modern FPGAs (Field Programmable
>> Gate Arrays) are. A few years ago, they reached a level, where designers
>> of embedded systems routinely placed a Z80 emulator in the corner of an
>> FPGA they needed in their system anyway, so as to have an on-board
>> service processor for debugging. But these guys are building CPU
>> implementations with register renaming, speculative pre-fetching and
>> experimenting with how performance trades off between different sizes of
>> register files versus L1 cache sizes. For fun and on reasonable (?)
>> hobby budgets. I am in awe.
>>
>> So it feels a bit like the early days of my career, when I was a
>> comparatively junior programmer in a data communications equipment
>> company in the early days when the Internet was still more or less a
>> secret guild. Before Cisco, when X.25 was the advanced infrastructure,
>> and the company was trying to hedge their bets between TCP/IP and the
>> ISO network architectures. I felt like I was sitting in the corner of
>> the upper class homeroom, listening to the smart kids and admiring their
>> work, and feeling privileged to be allowed to be there.
>>
>> It was much later that I appreciated that my contribution was to be able
>> to ask questions that were not completely stupid, but were outside the
>> bubbles that the smart guys sometimes wrapped themselves in, as well to
>> be a generalist, more of a jack-of-many-trades-but- master-of-none. Did
>> not make me rich, but allowed me to have more of a life outside of work.
>>
>> In the last few days, these same guys are chatting about how they
>> designed programming languages because it seemed just as easy to design
>> and implement a primitive dialect of BASIC for a scripting job as to
>> figure out how to just write the script in Perl.
>>
>> And here I am, stuck with Perl, because it seems easier to use the tools
>> I know than to learn another tools like Python or JavaScript, because my
>> goal is to get the job done, not to learn new languages.
>>
>> Some days I feel old ...
>
> I know how you feel. My go-to language has been Perl since Perl 4, with
> C for anything that needs more performance. Recently, I've been reading
> comp.lang.c, and thinking about going back to school to get my CS
> degree. (I dropped out around 1992 to co-found an ISP, from which I
> am now "mostly retired".)
>
> Looking at the local community college catalogue, I found their textbook
> for their didactic language -- C++ -- and have been going through it. (I
> know only enough C++ to be dangerous, I'm much better at C.)
>
> Thank goodness I was a much more serious student the second time around
> (starting in 1991), because back in '85-86 I was just coasting. Ended
> up joining the Coast Guard, and after 4.4 years of that, I was _really_
> motivated to go back to school...
>
> ObFolklore: In High School, I learned 6502 assembler, and I was patching
> the Corvus-adapted Apple DOS 3.3 for security enhancements -- by default,
> one could "CATALOG V##" and end up in a different volume, which was
> essentially no security to speak of...
Curio.
The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
original is html:
Why Casio programmable calculators switched from Basic to
micro-python?
Casio's switch from BASIC to MicroPython in their programmable
calculators reflects a broader trend in technology and education. Here’s
why they likely made that move:
1. Modernization & Relevance
BASIC is outdated. While it was great in the 80s and 90s for
teaching programming, it’s no longer widely used in real-world applications.
Python is everywhere. MicroPython is a lean version of Python
designed for embedded systems, and Python is currently one of the most
popular programming languages globally—used in everything from web dev
to data science to automation.
2. Educational Shift
STEM curriculum updates. Schools and educational programs are
moving toward teaching Python because of its real-world application and
readability.
Career relevance. Students learning Python on a calculator are
gaining skills they can immediately apply to jobs, projects, or further
learning.
3. Better Programming Model
Structured and modular. MicroPython allows more structured
programming than BASIC, with features like functions, imports, and
better error handling.
Readable and intuitive. Python syntax is much cleaner and more
intuitive for beginners than classic BASIC (which often relies on things
like line numbers and GOTO statements).
4. Hardware Capability
Improved hardware. Newer Casio calculators have more processing
power and memory, which can handle the slightly heavier MicroPython
interpreter.
USB connectivity and storage make it easier to load and save
MicroPython scripts.
5. Community and Ecosystem
Bigger support community. Python has a massive global
community, so students and teachers can find tons of tutorials,
examples, and help.
Cross-platform compatibility. Students can practice Python both
on the calculator and on a PC or phone using the same syntax.
Summary:
Casio shifted from BASIC to MicroPython to stay relevant, provide
better educational value, and align with modern programming trends. It’s
a move from a retro learning tool to something that sets students up for
real-world tech use.
Want a quick side-by-side comparison of what coding looks like in
BASIC vs. MicroPython?
Yes, please
Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs.
MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
10 ?→A
20 A×A→B
30 B
Explanation:
Line numbers are required.
?→A prompts for input and stores it in A.
A×A→B calculates the square and stores it in B.
30 B displays the result.
🐍 MicroPython (Casio fx-CG50 or fx-991CW)
a = float(input("Enter a number: "))
b = a * a
print("The square is:", b)
Explanation:
Standard Python syntax.
Uses input() and print() functions like you'd see on a computer.
Clean, readable, and doesn’t need line numbers.
🔍 Key Differences
Feature BASIC MicroPython
Syntax Style Line numbers, symbolic Indented blocks, readable syntax
Input/Output Symbol-based (?→A, 30 A) Text-based (input(), print())
Variables Single-letter (A–Z) typically Any valid names (a,
radius, etc.)
Control Structures GOTO, GOSUB, IF...THEN if, for, while, functions
Learning Relevance Mostly retro/historical Modern, real-world
applicable
If you’ve got a specific kind of program in mind—like a physics
equation, a loop, or even a simple game—I can show you how both versions
would look for that too. Want to try one?
--
Cheers, Carlos.
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrn100sdch.q43e.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> |
| In reply to | #230680 |
On 2025-04-27, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: > The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a > FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a > whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a > fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python. If I get into Python, it will probably be micro-python that gets me there, Some of the small embedded single-board computers that are too small to run a "real" OS can do micro-python. Arduino and the like. So the reward is to do something new. But on a system where to "old" tools work, it seems a waste of time.
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