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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #230668 > unrolled thread

General Thoughts ...

Started byLars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com>
First post2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
Last post2025-04-28 08:32 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 341 — 35 participants

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Contents

  General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 13:28 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-26 14:06 +0000
      Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 14:54 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 16:02 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-26 16:24 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-04-26 21:10 -0400
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 14:21 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 14:17 +0100
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-27 01:36 +0000
        Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Bud Frede <frede@mouse-potato.com> - 2025-05-03 14:46 -0400
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0200
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-03 20:56 +0000
          Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 21:54 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:18 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2025-05-13 09:44 +0100
              Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 18:59 +0000
            Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-14 15:38 +0100
              Re: Internet Service Provision (Re: General Thoughts ...) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:59 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-27 13:30 +0200
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:48 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:57 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 19:51 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:45 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 02:28 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-28 02:58 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 03:19 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 07:54 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-28 12:31 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 20:08 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:43 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 19:09 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 21:45 +0200
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:19 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:45 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-30 17:11 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:57 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-05-01 05:16 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:40 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 05:03 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:35 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2025-05-01 11:03 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2025-05-01 09:10 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:33 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:47 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:53 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:33 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:50 +0200
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 02:31 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 10:44 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:30 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:17 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:53 +0200
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:14 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 09:37 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 08:03 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:24 +0200
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 18:53 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:45 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 04:59 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:55 +0200
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:01 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:25 -0700
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:13 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 12:37 -0700
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:09 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:43 -0300
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:46 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-05 09:42 -0700
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:39 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-01 13:05 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:37 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 14:29 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:01 +0200
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:48 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:37 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:09 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:12 +0200
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:07 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-03 14:06 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-07 10:14 +0100
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 12:27 +0200
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2025-05-12 20:41 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 23:09 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:29 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 02:45 +0200
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-13 09:52 +0100
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-13 19:03 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-13 22:03 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-14 03:20 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-14 12:18 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:30 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 22:58 +0200
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:49 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-02 00:36 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 02:39 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 01:08 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-02 23:13 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:10 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:29 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-03 19:36 -0400
                                Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-05-01 13:35 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 13:18 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-01 23:03 +0200
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-05-05 11:15 +0300
            Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-28 11:49 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:51 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:56 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:00 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 22:09 +0100
              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:34 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:09 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:20 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 03:51 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:17 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 16:21 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 11:21 -0700
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-01 02:37 -0300
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-01 18:19 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:52 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 03:44 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:40 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:15 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:12 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-02 18:15 -0300
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:15 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 04:52 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-05-03 04:44 -0300
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:17 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 07:27 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:32 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:36 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-04-30 20:33 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:41 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:55 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:02 -0700
                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:32 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 14:07 -0700
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:54 +0000
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 01:01 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 08:31 -0700
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:23 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 13:42 -0700
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 22:29 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:20 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:08 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-03 01:20 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-03 02:23 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-03 05:22 +0000
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:13 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:57 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:43 +0200
                                              Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 00:40 +0000
                                                Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:25 +0200
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:35 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-05-05 20:18 +0000
                                                      Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:43 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:07 +0200
                                                      Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 02:59 +0000
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-05 20:16 +0000
                                                    Re: book em, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:33 +0000
                                                  Re: book em, General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:46 +0000
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 06:56 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:24 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:43 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-05 20:32 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 03:42 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:18 +0200
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:09 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 11:57 +0200
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 18:45 +0000
                                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:25 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-07 21:38 +0000
                                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:07 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:25 +0000
                                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 14:17 +0200
                                                                  Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:14 +0000
                                                                    Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 19:02 +0000
                                                                    Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:42 +0200
                                                                      Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:48 +0000
                                                                        Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 01:19 +0000
                                                                          Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:33 +0200
                                                                        Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:31 +0200
                                                                          Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 18:43 +0000
                                                                            Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-09 19:16 +0000
                                                                              Re: unbook me, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-10 03:15 +0000
                                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 18:56 +0000
                                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:45 +0200
                                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 21:15 +0000
                                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-09 00:16 +0000
                                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-09 00:42 +0000
                                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-09 12:34 +0200
                                                        Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:01 +0000
                                                          Re: kindles, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 19:03 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:50 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:15 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:37 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:27 +0200
                                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:14 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:23 +0200
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:24 +0000
                                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:54 +0000
                                                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:37 +0000
                                                        Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-06 08:28 -0700
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:28 +0000
                                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-07 22:28 +0200
                                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 23:55 +0000
                                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-07 23:44 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-04 21:33 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:18 +0200
                                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 17:52 +0000
                                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:25 +0200
                                                Re: all the news that, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 14:05 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:45 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:48 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:05 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:46 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-05 22:56 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2025-05-02 04:07 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-02 04:41 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 14:16 +0200
                              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-04 19:54 +0000
                                Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-04 22:46 +0200
                                Re: General Thoughts ... maus <maus@debian.deb3> - 2025-05-05 07:14 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 08:54 +0000
                                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 13:34 +0200
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-05 18:49 +0000
                                      Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-05 23:28 +0200
                                        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-06 04:41 +0000
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-06 12:02 +0200
                                          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-06 14:06 +0000
                                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:38 +0000
                                          Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-06 16:37 +0000
                                            Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-06 18:38 +0000
                                              Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:59 +0000
                                                California toll road infection Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-05-07 11:16 -0700
                                                  Re: California toll road infection Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2025-05-07 17:57 -0400
                                                    Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 00:16 +0000
                                                      Re: California toll road infection David Lesher <wb8foz@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:27 +0000
                                                        cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-11 17:33 +0000
                                                          Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-11 21:19 +0200
                                                            Re: cops, was: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-12 01:29 +0000
                                                              Re: cops, was: California toll road infection danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-12 01:34 +0000
                                                                Re: cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 13:15 +0200
                                                                  Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-12 16:37 +0000
                                                                    Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-05-12 22:36 +0200
                                                                      Re: bridge cops, was: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-13 00:38 +0000
                                                            Re: cops, was: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:18 +0000
                                                        Re: California toll road infection Thomas Prufer <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> - 2025-05-12 07:42 +0200
                                                        Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-12 14:16 +0000
                                                  Re: California toll road infection rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-08 00:27 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-08 13:35 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-08 17:28 +0000
                                                      Re: California toll road infection Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-08 22:54 +0000
                                                    Re: California toll road infection Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-09 20:35 +0000
                                                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-07 18:44 +0000
                                                Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-05-07 20:35 +0000
                                            Re: way to go, General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-07 17:53 +0000
                                    Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-20 10:33 +0100
                                      Re: Paying without Internet Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-21 17:56 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2025-05-21 20:05 +0000
                                          Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:19 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-05-21 20:46 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-21 21:13 +0000
                                          Re: Paying without Internet David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2025-05-21 22:31 +0100
                                          Re: Paying without Internet Chuck Martin <cmartin+usenetYYMMDD@nyx.net> - 2025-05-22 07:56 +0000
                                        Re: Paying without Internet Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-21 23:29 +0100
                                          Re: Paying without Internet rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-22 03:46 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 07:51 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... Peter Flass -- Iron Spring Software <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2025-05-02 15:17 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 19:03 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:27 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 10:55 +0100
                  Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:27 +0200
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
                        Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
                          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
                            Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
          Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
            Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
              Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
                Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 07:07 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 23:47 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-29 18:32 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-29 20:52 +0200
          Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-29 22:40 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 01:19 +0000
              Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2025-04-30 02:14 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:19 +0000
                  Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-04-30 12:31 +0200
                  Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:05 +0000
                    Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Al Kossow <aek@bitsavers.org> - 2025-04-30 12:58 -0700
                      Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-30 20:35 +0000
                        Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:52 +0000
                      Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-05-01 06:44 +0000
                        Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 14:43 +0000
                Re: BASIC history, was General Thoughts ... Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2025-04-30 09:10 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-04-30 03:40 +0000
                Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-30 07:21 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-04-30 11:09 +0100
                    Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:19 +0000
                    Re: General Thoughts ... Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2025-05-01 13:20 +0100
                      Re: General Thoughts ... antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2025-05-01 17:00 +0000
                      Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-05-01 21:58 +0000
                  Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-30 19:11 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-26 14:55 +0000
      Re: General Thoughts ... drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2025-04-26 18:55 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 14:03 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2025-04-26 20:02 -0300
      Re: General Thoughts ... Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-04-27 13:41 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-27 21:03 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2025-04-27 22:45 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 01:51 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:47 +0000
        Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-28 01:46 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 03:30 +0000
            Re: General Thoughts ... vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-28 04:48 +0000
              Re: General Thoughts ... rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-04-28 19:41 +0000
          Re: General Thoughts ... Louis Krupp <lkrupp@invalid.pssw.com.invalid> - 2025-05-03 00:36 -0600
    Re: General Thoughts ... Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-04-27 01:22 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... Oscar Toledo G. <biyubi@gmail.com> - 2025-04-27 01:26 +0000
    Re: General Thoughts ... John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-04-28 08:32 -0700

Page 15 of 18 — ← Prev page 1 … 13 14 [15] 16 17 18  Next page →


#230818

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-04-30 23:43 +0000
Message-ID<vuucj5$1ajpm$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#230777
On 30 Apr 2025 10:55:24 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> The problem with an 'open standard' calculator is how do you tell
> during an exam whether the student is using an OpenCalculator v1.1
> compatible unit, and haven't slipped in additional functionality?

You have that problem anyway, even if the case says “approved vendor and 
model”.

> The examiner is not going to take it apart and audit the code.

Better still, why not supply the students with standardized calculators 
for the duration of the exam?

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#230848

FromJohn Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Date2025-05-01 08:03 -0700
Message-ID<20250501080342.00004ed2@gmail.com>
In reply to#230818
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 23:43:33 -0000 (UTC)
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized
> calculators for the duration of the exam?

(...because that would involve spending money on education, rather than
fleecing students for every penny they're worth and then some...)

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#230849

FromTheo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2025-05-01 17:03 +0100
Message-ID<Frc*xBobA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
In reply to#230818
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On 30 Apr 2025 10:55:24 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
> 
> > The problem with an 'open standard' calculator is how do you tell
> > during an exam whether the student is using an OpenCalculator v1.1
> > compatible unit, and haven't slipped in additional functionality?
> 
> You have that problem anyway, even if the case says “approved vendor and 
> model”.

Yes, while you might wish to credit a student clever enough to replace the
guts of the calculator with their own design, you can probably buy trojan
calculators on the dark web nowadays.

> > The examiner is not going to take it apart and audit the code.
> 
> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized calculators 
> for the duration of the exam?

I think some places do that.  But the students need to have access to a
calculator during lessons, and it's easier if it's the same model as
provided in the exams (in particular, they don't want to get comfy with
features which the exam calculator doesn't have).  So the same need to have
an approved model applies.

Theo

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#230860

FromLars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>
Date2025-05-01 20:39 +0000
Message-ID<slrn1017mvm.1b6ti.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>
In reply to#230849
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized calculators 
>> for the duration of the exam?

On 2025-05-01, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> I think some places do that.  But the students need to have access to a
> calculator during lessons, and it's easier if it's the same model as
> provided in the exams (in particular, they don't want to get comfy with
> features which the exam calculator doesn't have).  So the same need to have
> an approved model applies.

In my grandsons' school district in Indianola, Iowa, they issue ChromeBooks
to all students, beginning in Kindergarten.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#230877

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-05-02 00:15 +0000
Message-ID<U8UQP.63776$vo1.59972@fx15.iad>
In reply to#230860
On 2025-05-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:

> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized calculators 
>>> for the duration of the exam?
>
> On 2025-05-01, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> I think some places do that.  But the students need to have access to a
>> calculator during lessons, and it's easier if it's the same model as
>> provided in the exams (in particular, they don't want to get comfy with
>> features which the exam calculator doesn't have).  So the same need to have
>> an approved model applies.
>
> In my grandsons' school district in Indianola, Iowa, they issue ChromeBooks
> to all students, beginning in Kindergarten.

Do they pledge allegiance to Google while reciting the Alphabet?

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#230880

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-05-02 00:40 +0000
Message-ID<m7iij6FeaiqU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#230877
On Fri, 02 May 2025 00:15:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> On 2025-05-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized
>>>> calculators for the duration of the exam?
>>
>> On 2025-05-01, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I think some places do that.  But the students need to have access to
>>> a calculator during lessons, and it's easier if it's the same model as
>>> provided in the exams (in particular, they don't want to get comfy
>>> with features which the exam calculator doesn't have).  So the same
>>> need to have an approved model applies.
>>
>> In my grandsons' school district in Indianola, Iowa, they issue
>> ChromeBooks to all students, beginning in Kindergarten.
> 
> Do they pledge allegiance to Google while reciting the Alphabet?

Time honored tradition. RPI had close ties with IBM and I doubt they paid 
full list price for the 360/30. At least around the Boston area DEC had 
very favorable terms for colleges. M$ is giving a lot of stuff away for 
free lately but in the '90s the 'academic' version of VisualStudio was a 
real bargain if you qualified. iirc there was some horsetrading when UM 
decided to use Java as a didactic language.

Supposedly the Jesuits had a saying 'give us a child until he's seven and 
he'll be a Catholic for life'. Get them when they're young and 
impressionable.

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#230893

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2025-05-02 07:10 +0000
Message-ID<Gd_QP.5$B6%8.1@fx33.iad>
In reply to#230880
On 2025-05-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 02 May 2025 00:15:48 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2025-05-01, Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Better still, why not supply the students with standardized
>>>>> calculators for the duration of the exam?
>>>
>>> On 2025-05-01, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think some places do that.  But the students need to have access to
>>>> a calculator during lessons, and it's easier if it's the same model as
>>>> provided in the exams (in particular, they don't want to get comfy
>>>> with features which the exam calculator doesn't have).  So the same
>>>> need to have an approved model applies.
>>>
>>> In my grandsons' school district in Indianola, Iowa, they issue
>>> ChromeBooks to all students, beginning in Kindergarten.
>> 
>> Do they pledge allegiance to Google while reciting the Alphabet?
>
> Time honored tradition. RPI had close ties with IBM and I doubt they paid 
> full list price for the 360/30. At least around the Boston area DEC had 
> very favorable terms for colleges. M$ is giving a lot of stuff away for 
> free lately but in the '90s the 'academic' version of VisualStudio was a 
> real bargain if you qualified. iirc there was some horsetrading when UM 
> decided to use Java as a didactic language.
>
> Supposedly the Jesuits had a saying 'give us a child until he's seven and 
> he'll be a Catholic for life'. Get them when they're young and 
> impressionable.

I heard a story of someone shouting at Hitler, "You'll never have me!"
Hitler calmly replied, "I don't care.  I have your son."

Oops, did I just invoke Godwin's Law?

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Growth for the sake of
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  growth is the ideology
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  of the cancer cell.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |    -- Edward Abbey

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#230871

FromLawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2025-05-01 21:51 +0000
Message-ID<vv0qcm$3i4p7$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#230849
On 01 May 2025 17:03:43 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> But the students need to have access to a calculator during lessons, and
> it's easier if it's the same model as provided in the exams (in
> particular, they don't want to get comfy with features which the exam
> calculator doesn't have).

Surely that’s up to them.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#230752

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-04-30 01:03 +0000
Message-ID<m7db75Fiq56U6@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#230735
On 29 Apr 2025 22:09:57 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:

> This is why schools often stipulate that you must use brand X model Y
> calculator, so every student is using identical hardware and they can be
> graded against each other.

I was amused when one of them, TI I think, removed the assembler option 
because someone figured out how to hack the 'Exam Mode'.  I doubt that kid 
is having problems with STEM.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#230896

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2025-05-02 10:20 +0100
Message-ID<vv22p2$mnun$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#230752
On 2025-04-30, rbowman wrote:

> On 29 Apr 2025 22:09:57 +0100 (BST), Theo wrote:
>
>> This is why schools often stipulate that you must use brand X model Y
>> calculator, so every student is using identical hardware and they can be
>> graded against each other.
>
> I was amused when one of them, TI I think, removed the assembler option 
> because someone figured out how to hack the 'Exam Mode'.  I doubt that kid 
> is having problems with STEM.

Knowing how their offerings tend to go in price, I'm guessing they made
it much less usable as a computing machine, but didn't touch the price
tag...

(With TI-84 IIRC my own coding was mostly or only in BASIC.)

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#230700

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-04-28 14:10 +0000
Message-ID<r%LPP.1383456$f81.663483@fx48.iad>
In reply to#230689
Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>On Sun, 27 Apr 2025 13:30:21 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>
>> BASIC is outdated. While it was great in the 80s and 90s for
>> teaching programming, it’s no longer widely used in real-world
>> applications.
>> 
>> Python is everywhere.
>
>Surely the concept of a programmable calculator is outdated as well. For 
>goshsakes, you have entire computers that are small enough to be held in 
>your hand, why do you need a special-purpose calculator?

For the same reason that I still use my great grandfather's
Burroughs class 3 mechanical adding machine[*].  (or one of the class 1
machines I've acquired over the years).

[*] Once a year to sum foreign taxes on stock dividends.

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#230719

FromTheo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2025-04-29 15:11 +0100
Message-ID<Crc*gEdbA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
In reply to#230680
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a 
> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a 
> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a 
> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
> 
> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the 
> original is html:

I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings. 
Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).

MicroPython is 'not quite Python' in that a few things aren't available, but
it's more like Python than vendor-A's BASIC interpreter was vaguely similar
to vendor-B's BASIC interpreter back in the 80s.

(although there was the Python 2 v Python 3 thing, I hope it doesn't end up
obsolete when Python 4 comes along)

>      Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs. 
> MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
>      🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
> 
>      10 ?→A
>      20 A×A→B
>      30 B

Is that BASIC?  It doesn't look much like it to me.  Really the only thing I
recognise are the line numbers.

Theo

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#230720

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-04-29 19:55 +0200
Message-ID<kdg7elxk22.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#230719
On 2025-04-29 16:11, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
>> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
>> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
>> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
>>
>> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
>> original is html:
> 
> I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
> the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings.
> Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
> is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
> package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).

On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite 
advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking 
for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>

The problem might be the plethora of dialects, that impeded sharing 
libraries.

> 
> MicroPython is 'not quite Python' in that a few things aren't available, but
> it's more like Python than vendor-A's BASIC interpreter was vaguely similar
> to vendor-B's BASIC interpreter back in the 80s.

Ah.

> (although there was the Python 2 v Python 3 thing, I hope it doesn't end up
> obsolete when Python 4 comes along)
> 
>>       Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs.
>> MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
>>       🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
>>
>>       10 ?→A
>>       20 A×A→B
>>       30 B
> 
> Is that BASIC?  It doesn't look much like it to me.  Really the only thing I
> recognise are the line numbers.

I don't truly remember :-D

I think the Casio variant of basic was richer. Well... it says fx-5800P, 
mine was fx850PG, so a later model.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#230734

FromTheo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Date2025-04-29 21:58 +0100
Message-ID<Erc*J9ebA@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
In reply to#230720
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> On 2025-04-29 16:11, Theo wrote:
> > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
> >> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
> >> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
> >> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
> >> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
> >>
> >> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
> >> original is html:
> > 
> > I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
> > the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings.
> > Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
> > is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
> > package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).
> 
> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite 
> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking 
> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.
> 
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>

Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981.

> The problem might be the plethora of dialects, that impeded sharing 
> libraries.

For a lot of machines, BASIC was the only interface you had between the user
and machine code.  So there wasn't very much developed in terms of a machine
abstraction that meant code could migrate from one machine to another -
unless you could do things in vanilla BASIC you had to do some machine
specific stuff to get things down (eg PEEKs and POKEs but other mechanisms
developed - eg ARM BBC BASIC has SYS for making syscalls).  On Unix (and
systems that follow a similar API), a lot of the work to make it useful lives in
libc and POSIX, which don't have a cross-platform equivalent in BASICs.

Another hindrance was BASIC's often global scope, which made code difficult
to be self contained (you couldn't know if a variable in a library was also
used in the caller, and if they clashed nothing would tell you).  BBC BASIC
had a LOCAL keyword but it wasn't that useful.  There was dynamic memory
allocation but no free so you could LOCAL DIM an array, but at the end of
the function it wouldn't be freed so each call of the function was a memory
leak.

> >>       Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs.
> >> MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
> >>       🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
> >>
> >>       10 ?→A
> >>       20 A×A→B
> >>       30 B
> > 
> > Is that BASIC?  It doesn't look much like it to me.  Really the only thing I
> > recognise are the line numbers.
> 
> I don't truly remember :-D
> 
> I think the Casio variant of basic was richer. Well... it says fx-5800P, 
> mine was fx850PG, so a later model.

I'd write it as something like

10 INPUT A
20 LET B=A*A
30 PRINT B

(LET being optional in some dialects)

Theo

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#230736

From"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid>
Date2025-04-29 23:46 +0200
Message-ID<3ut7elxg19.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>
In reply to#230734
On 2025-04-29 22:58, Theo wrote:
> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-29 16:11, Theo wrote:
>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>>>> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
>>>> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
>>>> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
>>>> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
>>>>
>>>> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
>>>> original is html:
>>>
>>> I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
>>> the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings.
>>> Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
>>> is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
>>> package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).
>>
>> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite
>> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking
>> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.
>>
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>
> 
> Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981.
> 
>> The problem might be the plethora of dialects, that impeded sharing
>> libraries.
> 
> For a lot of machines, BASIC was the only interface you had between the user
> and machine code.  So there wasn't very much developed in terms of a machine
> abstraction that meant code could migrate from one machine to another -
> unless you could do things in vanilla BASIC you had to do some machine
> specific stuff to get things down (eg PEEKs and POKEs but other mechanisms
> developed - eg ARM BBC BASIC has SYS for making syscalls).  On Unix (and
> systems that follow a similar API), a lot of the work to make it useful lives in
> libc and POSIX, which don't have a cross-platform equivalent in BASICs.
> 
> Another hindrance was BASIC's often global scope, which made code difficult
> to be self contained (you couldn't know if a variable in a library was also
> used in the caller, and if they clashed nothing would tell you).  BBC BASIC
> had a LOCAL keyword but it wasn't that useful.  There was dynamic memory
> allocation but no free so you could LOCAL DIM an array, but at the end of
> the function it wouldn't be freed so each call of the function was a memory
> leak.

Ahh... yes.

I worked at a small engineering company that made test beds to test 
motors, and the software was made in Basic, usually by someone at some 
university.

They were industrial engineers, they knew their machines and, and could 
design new things using computers to, for example, measure the power 
output of a bike or a marine engine at different rpms and graph it. And 
they used Basic (the compiled version from Microsoft) to do it.

I consider those engineers like pioneers.

> 
>>>>        Awesome! Here's a simple side-by-side comparison of BASIC vs.
>>>> MicroPython, using a classic "calculate the square of a number" example:
>>>>        🔷 BASIC (Casio fx-5800P style)
>>>>
>>>>        10 ?→A
>>>>        20 A×A→B
>>>>        30 B
>>>
>>> Is that BASIC?  It doesn't look much like it to me.  Really the only thing I
>>> recognise are the line numbers.
>>
>> I don't truly remember :-D
>>
>> I think the Casio variant of basic was richer. Well... it says fx-5800P,
>> mine was fx850PG, so a later model.
> 
> I'd write it as something like
> 
> 10 INPUT A
> 20 LET B=A*A
> 30 PRINT B

Right.

> 
> (LET being optional in some dialects)
> 
> Theo


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#230747

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-04-30 00:15 +0000
Message-ID<m7d8ckFiq56U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#230736
On Tue, 29 Apr 2025 23:46:11 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> I worked at a small engineering company that made test beds to test
> motors, and the software was made in Basic, usually by someone at some
> university.
> 
> They were industrial engineers, they knew their machines and, and could
> design new things using computers to, for example, measure the power
> output of a bike or a marine engine at different rpms and graph it. And
> they used Basic (the compiled version from Microsoft) to do it.
> 
> I consider those engineers like pioneers.

I did some work at GE Ft. Wayne in the '80s. One of their products was 
copier power supplies and they had designed a system that used XTs to 
control the environmental tests, with an AT to control the 12 XTs and 
gather data. I worked on the AT end in C. It was supposed to be a 3 month 
contract but I was there for a year and a half. 

I'd went on to other projects in the New England area but in '87 GE needed 
some changes to the XT software and asked if I was interested. I guess the 
original coders had moved on. I was between projects and said sure, as 
long as it wasn't another years long deal. I'd never done much with BASIC 
other than writing a sort of IL hack in assembler to process the code the 
applications people were writing but I was somewhat impressed by what 
BASIC had become by then.

The best part of the project is I took a very round-about route back to 
New Hampshire which included Mardi Gras in NO. Shatner was the King of the 
Baccchus krewe that year.  I was also impressed by the NOPD mobile booking 
stations. Process the arrestees until they had a full busload of drunks 
and presumably take them to a brick and mortar jail. 

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#230737

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-04-29 22:25 +0000
Message-ID<5lcQP.878381$d51.567339@fx46.iad>
In reply to#230734
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2025-04-29 16:11, Theo wrote:
>> > Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
>> >> The past century I bought a programmable calculator from Casio, a
>> >> FX-850P. It used Basic. I lost or misplaced that calculator, so on a
>> >> whim I got myself another programmable from the same brand, a
>> >> fx-9860GIII, and this one comes with micro-python.
>> >>
>> >> I asked chatgpt about this. The text is going to distort a bit, the
>> >> original is html:
>> > 
>> > I don't think there's anything surprising in this.  In the 80s, BASIC was
>> > the first language a lot of people learned in school or similar settings.
>> > Today, it's Python.  Python has similar levels of beginner-friendliness but
>> > is also more suited to the modern age (eg able to talk to the internet, a
>> > package management system, a big collection of libraries etc).
>> 
>> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite 
>> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking 
>> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>
>
>Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981.

There were many dialects that preceeded 1981 as well, some fairly
powerful such as HP/3000 BASIC or VAX-11 BASIC. I think a lot of
computer science folks started with PDP-8 BASIC (I did in 1975).

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#230783

FromAnssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi>
Date2025-04-30 15:40 +0300
Message-ID<sm0zffxhlfp.fsf@lakka.kapsi.fi>
In reply to#230734
Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:

>> On the other hand, I saw Basic dialects in the 90's that were quite 
>> advanced. No line numbers, loop control, functions, etc. I'm thinking 
>> for instance of Borland's Turbo Basic.
>> 
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBASIC>
>
> Indeed, BBC BASIC had those in 1981.

I think it did insist on line numbers but still, very impressive. I grew
up with Microsoft basic on Commodores and some other 8-bitters of the
time, like Sinclairs. Haven't exactly been a fan of basic since.

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#230803

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2025-04-30 19:40 +0000
Message-ID<m7fcl6Fs4tbU11@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#230783
On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:40:26 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote:

> I think it did insist on line numbers but still, very impressive. I grew
> up with Microsoft basic on Commodores and some other 8-bitters of the
> time, like Sinclairs. Haven't exactly been a fan of basic since.

When the company bought an IBM 5120 it came with BASIC or APL. Talk about 
a rock and a hard place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_5120

Note that despite the 51xx it had nothing in common with the 5150 (IBM PC) 
so it was the IBM mainframe dialect of BASIC not the Microsoft BASIC they 
licensed for the PC. 

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#230811

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2025-04-30 20:32 +0000
Message-ID<bNvQP.1878003$SZca.388745@fx13.iad>
In reply to#230803
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
>On Wed, 30 Apr 2025 15:40:26 +0300, Anssi Saari wrote:
>
>> I think it did insist on line numbers but still, very impressive. I grew
>> up with Microsoft basic on Commodores and some other 8-bitters of the
>> time, like Sinclairs. Haven't exactly been a fan of basic since.
>
>When the company bought an IBM 5120 it came with BASIC or APL. Talk about 
>a rock and a hard place.

I used one of those in 1979.   Had a switch on the front to select
APL or BASIC.

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