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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #213882 > unrolled thread

Keyboards again

Started byDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
First post2020-09-07 19:51 -0400
Last post2020-09-08 19:59 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 171 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 19:51 -0400
    Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 21:03 -0400
      Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:16 -0700
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 21:50 -0400
      Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:12 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 23:51 -0400
          Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 17:40 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-12 18:04 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) - 2020-09-08 13:19 -0500
          Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 14:48 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-08 21:26 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-08 14:48 -0700
              Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 17:52 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 00:51 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 17:42 +0000
                  Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 19:50 +0100
                    Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-09 19:49 +0000
                      Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-09 21:18 +0100
                        Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-10 15:44 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Freddy1X <freddy1X@indyX.netX> - 2020-09-08 21:59 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-09 11:10 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-09 15:27 -0700
                  Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-10 17:47 -0400
                  Re: Keyboards again Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-09-11 01:26 -0500
                    Re: Keyboards again Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-12 06:20 +0000
                      Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-12 12:27 +0000
                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-12 13:07 +0000
                        Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-12 20:15 -0400
                        Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-03 21:57 +0100
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-03 22:11 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-03 22:00 +0000
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-03 19:26 -0400
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 09:02 +0000
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-04 12:22 +0100
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 16:42 +0000
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:39 +0100
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-10-04 22:06 +0000
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-04 08:30 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) the "Swampster" <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-06 12:13 +0000
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 14:30 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 10:06 -0400
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 11:17 -0400
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:30 +0100
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-10-04 19:13 +0000
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 19:07 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-10-05 01:23 +0000
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 09:54 +0100
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 05:34 -0700
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 13:47 +0100
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 11:22 -0400
                                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-05 11:03 -0700
                                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 11:10 -0700
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-10-05 18:27 +0000
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-05 20:03 +0100
                                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 18:20 -0400
                                              Re: Barcodes Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 19:05 -0400
                                                Re: Barcodes J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 23:57 -0400
                                                  Re: Barcodes scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-10-06 15:30 +0000
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 16:52 -0700
                                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 23:54 -0400
                                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-05 21:53 -0700
                                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-06 07:33 -0400
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-05 11:21 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-10-04 22:38 -0500
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-10-04 21:19 -0700
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Leighton <andyl@azaal.plus.com> - 2020-10-05 03:04 -0500
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-05 11:01 +0100
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 12:50 +0100
                                    Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-10-05 05:34 -0700
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2020-10-05 10:06 -0500
                                      Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-10-06 21:16 +0000
                                        Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-10-07 06:38 +0100
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-05 12:36 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 08:00 +0100
                              Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:28 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-10-04 19:06 -0400
                                  Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-05 12:33 +0100
                                Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-10-05 08:24 +0100
                      Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-12 20:02 -0400
                        Re: Keyboards again Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2020-09-13 07:05 +0000
                          Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-13 09:24 +0100
                          Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 09:38 +0000
                            Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-13 19:20 -0400
                              Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 23:54 +0000
                              Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:47 +0000
                                Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-15 18:35 -0400
                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-15 18:44 +0000
                              Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 20:29 +0100
                                Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-15 21:21 +0000
                                Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-15 18:49 -0700
                                  Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-16 07:56 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-16 10:16 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-16 09:55 +0000
                                  Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 11:25 -0500
                                  Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-16 17:42 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 18:03 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 13:57 -0500
                                      Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 19:08 +0000
                                        Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 16:48 -0500
                                      Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-17 06:55 +0100
                                  Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-16 21:03 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-16 16:53 -0500
                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-16 21:55 +0000
                                    Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 07:20 +0000
                                      Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 10:06 -0500
                                        Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 11:15 -0400
                                          Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-17 12:37 -0500
                                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 20:07 +0000
                                              Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-18 10:01 -0500
                                                Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-18 16:45 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-18 11:22 -0700
                                          Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-17 19:59 +0000
                                            Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-19 23:25 +0000
                                              Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-20 12:03 +0100
                                                Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-20 14:27 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-20 16:08 +0100
                                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 10:52 -0500
                                                    Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:57 -0400
                                                      Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 09:09 +0000
                                                    Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 09:07 +0000
                                                      Re: Keyboards again Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2020-09-21 14:32 +0100
                                                        Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-21 13:37 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:45 +0000
                                                          Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-22 12:49 +0000
                                                      Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-22 12:37 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-22 13:38 +0000
                                                        Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 09:31 -0500
                                                          Re: Keyboards again Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2020-09-22 15:39 -0700
                                                            Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 20:55 -0400
                                                              Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-22 19:39 -0700
                                                                Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-23 00:13 -0400
                                                            Re: Keyboards again maus <maus@dmaus.org> - 2020-09-23 10:52 +0000
                                                  Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-20 14:48 -0400
                                                  Re: Keyboards again usenet@only.tnx (Questor) - 2020-09-21 19:35 +0000
                                                    Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-22 09:22 -0500
                          Re: Keyboards again scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2020-09-13 15:34 +0000
                            Re: Keyboards again Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2020-09-13 17:54 -0300
                          Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-13 10:53 -0500
                            Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-13 17:50 +0000
                              Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-13 19:35 +0100
                                Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2020-09-13 19:33 +0000
                                  Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2020-09-14 06:02 +0000
                                  Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-14 07:46 +0100
                            Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-13 15:01 -0500
                          Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-13 19:25 -0400
                        Re: Keyboards again Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2020-09-13 09:37 +0000
                        Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2020-10-03 22:00 +0100
                          Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 14:38 +0100
                            Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again) mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-10-04 22:36 +0100
                Re: Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-10 10:39 +0100
              Re: Keyboards again Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-09-09 06:02 +0000
              Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-09 14:14 +0000
                Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 10:18 -0400
              Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-09 14:49 -0500
              Re: Keyboards again mjb@signal11.invalid (Mike) - 2020-09-09 20:36 +0100
              Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-09 18:51 -0400
                Re: Keyboards again Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2020-09-10 16:24 +0000
                  Re: Keyboards again JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2020-09-10 14:58 -0500
                Re: Keyboards again Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2020-09-10 17:12 +0100
                  Re: Keyboards again Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2020-09-10 17:49 -0400
    Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:09 -0700
      Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 18:14 -0700
      Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-07 22:19 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 20:14 -0700
          Re: Keyboards again Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2020-09-07 20:32 -0700
        Re: Keyboards again Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> - 2020-09-08 09:44 +0000
      Re: Keyboards again Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2020-09-08 10:49 +0100
        Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 07:17 -0400
        Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 08:02 -0400
          Re: Keyboards again J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 18:33 -0400
            Re: Keyboards again Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> - 2020-09-08 19:59 -0400

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#214213 — Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2020-09-13 19:33 +0000
SubjectRe: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again
Message-ID<rjls5o$11gs$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#214212
In article <hs7747Fk643U1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns  <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>John Levine wrote:
>
>> Publix is owned by its employees and has been since the 1930s. It is
>> consistently profitable, wins awards both for being a good place to
>> work and a good place to shop, ...

>Similarly the John Lewis/Waitrose partnerships in the UK, but they're on 
>the ropes ... low bonuses in recent years, closing some of their newest 
>branches before covid and deciding to permanently shutter some major 
>ones post-covid.

John Lewis' problem is the same problem that all department stores
have. People just don't shop at them like they used to, with COVID
being the last straw.

I gather that Waitrose (their supermarket chain) is doing fine.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#214219 — Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again

FromBob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com>
Date2020-09-14 06:02 +0000
SubjectRe: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again
Message-ID<hs8fb1FrvegU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214213
On 13 Sep 2020 at 19:33:12, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> In article <hs7747Fk643U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Andy Burns  <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>John Levine wrote:
>>
>>> Publix is owned by its employees and has been since the 1930s. It is
>>> consistently profitable, wins awards both for being a good place to
>>> work and a good place to shop, ...
> 
>>Similarly the John Lewis/Waitrose partnerships in the UK, but they're on 
>>the ropes ... low bonuses in recent years, closing some of their newest 
>>branches before covid and deciding to permanently shutter some major 
>>ones post-covid.
> 
> John Lewis' problem is the same problem that all department stores
> have. People just don't shop at them like they used to, with COVID
> being the last straw.
> 
> I gather that Waitrose (their supermarket chain) is doing fine.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-07-20/waitrose-to-close-seven-stores-with-almost-700-jobs-at-risk

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#214220 — Re: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2020-09-14 07:46 +0100
SubjectRe: the dangers of socialism, not Keyboards again
Message-ID<hs8htbFsg06U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214213
John Levine wrote:

> I gather that Waitrose (their supermarket chain) is doing fine.

They closed 18 stores in 2018-19, including some they'd purpose-built 
only recently, and which as far as I could see had decent customer 
numbers.  To add insult to injury, several of them have re-opened as 
Lidl stores.

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#214214

FromJimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-13 15:01 -0500
Message-ID<8iuslfhp6mf24f03kbp8jt96l7apt9ot1f@4ax.com>
In reply to#214210
On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 10:53:35 -0500, JimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:05:44 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
><tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> schrieb:
>>> On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 06:20:30 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> schrieb:
>>>>> I remember reports of a competition where 
>>>>> a 10-key adding machine operator couldn't keep up with a proficient 
>>>>> soroban operator. I suppose that's still true, if there are any 
>>>>> proficient abacus operators left these days.
>>>>
>>>> It would be interesting to see how that would work in competition
>>>> with, let's say, a bar code scanner at a supermarket cash register.
>>>> These don't work perfectly either...
>>>
>>> Since you also appear to be from Germany, remember the 80s and early 90s
>>> at ALDI?
>>
>>> They were so "advanced". Before bar code was used cashiers in
>>> other stores read the price from the label and typed it in. No way to
>>> take track of how many items were still in stock. At ALDI the poor (and
>>> bad paid)
>>
>>From what I've read, ALDI pays more than other supermarkets
>>(whatever that means), but they have far fewer people who are
>>expected to do all jobs, so their overall labor costs are lower.
>
>Publix also pays higher. I have seen their employees shelf stocking
>throughout the store. Doesn't look like someone is assigned to a
>particular section.

The people who work in the deli, or produce, or meat, don't work in
other areas that I have seen.

-- 
Jim

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#214217

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-09-13 19:25 -0400
Message-ID<87wo0x8djg.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#214204
On Sun, 13 Sep 2020 07:05:44 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> schrieb:
>
>> cashiers had to remember a three digit code for every item or
>> look it up from a table o a sheet of paper if they didn't. Type it in and
>> the register would show the price but also subtract one product. Must be
>> painful to learn up to 999 items with their code.
>
> Remembering up to 999 (or 1000?) codes is certainly something that
> not everybody could do well, so I suspect a certain qualificiation
> was needed.

1000 is just the highest number of possible items fitting into a
three-digit-code. Suppose they only have some 200-300 articles in
stock. Still a lot to memorize.
-- 
Andreas

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#214206

FromBob Eager <news0073@eager.cx>
Date2020-09-13 09:37 +0000
Message-ID<hs67ioFrpevU19@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#214200
On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:02:34 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Sep 2020 06:20:30 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>
>> Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> schrieb:
>>> I remember reports of a competition where a 10-key adding machine
>>> operator couldn't keep up with a proficient soroban operator. I
>>> suppose that's still true, if there are any proficient abacus
>>> operators left these days.
>>
>> It would be interesting to see how that would work in competition with,
>> let's say, a bar code scanner at a supermarket cash register.
>> These don't work perfectly either...
> 
> Since you also appear to be from Germany, remember the 80s and early 90s
> at ALDI? They were so "advanced". Before bar code was used cashiers in
> other stores read the price from the label and typed it in. No way to
> take track of how many items were still in stock. At ALDI the poor (and
> bad paid) cashiers had to remember a three digit code for every item or
> look it up from a table o a sheet of paper if they didn't. Type it in
> and the register would show the price but also subtract one product.
> Must be painful to learn up to 999 items with their code. And you could
> still make a mistake and sell a bottle of pricey sparkling wine for 99
> Pfennige (a Pfennig was 1/100 of a Deutschmark).
> 
> As everybody else they changed to bar code scanners in the mid 90s.

They still have to use codes sometimes, when bar codes are wrong or 
missing. They seem to hold the 'current' ones in theor heads, and have 
sheets of paper too.

-- 
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
 http://www.mirrorservice.org

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#214641 — Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

FromJan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
Date2020-10-03 22:00 +0100
SubjectBarcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<jfi.5F78E658.42.fortytwo@xs4all.nl>
In reply to#214200
Sat, 12 Sep 2020 20:02:34 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> schrieb:

[Schnipp]

>Since you also appear to be from Germany, remember the 80s and early 90s
>at ALDI? They were so "advanced". Before bar code was used cashiers in
>other stores read the price from the label and typed it in. No way to
>take track of how many items were still in stock. At ALDI the poor (and
>bad paid) cashiers had to remember a three digit code for every item or
>look it up from a table o a sheet of paper if they didn't. Type it in and
>the register would show the price but also subtract one product. Must be
>painful to learn up to 999 items with their code. And you could still
>make a mistake and sell a bottle of pricey sparkling wine for 99 Pfennige
>(a Pfennig was 1/100 of a Deutschmark).
>
>As everybody else they changed to bar code scanners in the mid 90s.

In order to cut costs they used their own codes, not EAN13.
-- 
                   | Hy doet het niet, die deur.
Jan v/d Broek      | Wat een akelige deur.
balglaas@xs4all.nl | De deur die stuk was.
                   | Jan jr. 28-III-'04

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#214650 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

Frommjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
Date2020-10-04 14:38 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<rlcj9g$573$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>
In reply to#214641
In article <jfi.5F78E658.42.fortytwo@xs4all.nl>,
Jan van den Broek  <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> wrote:

>>As everybody else they changed to bar code scanners in the mid 90s.
>
>In order to cut costs they used their own codes, not EAN13.

Not sure if that's (still) true: Although the format looks different
because the barcodes are realllllly long and wrapped round the product 
(bigger target), and because they don't group the 5||012345||678012|| 
characters underneath in the classic layout, the numeric codes are 
printed in small print near the barcode.

The numbers have 13 digits, starting "40" (which is Germany) or 
8 digits (no country code, no check digit) for the shorter EAN-9 
ones.

So it could be they are using numbers within the German number
space that aren't officially allocated, but the coding does look
like an EAN9/13 compliant barcode.

-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#214659 — Re: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)

Frommjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
Date2020-10-04 22:36 +0100
SubjectRe: Barcodes (Was: Keyboards again)
Message-ID<rldf80$4bv$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>
In reply to#214650
In article <rlcj9g$573$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>,
Mike <mjb@signal11.org.uk> wrote:

>>In order to cut costs they used their own codes, not EAN13.
>
>Not sure if that's (still) true:

... whoops, EAN-9 -> EAN-8. Duh.

I just checked one -- Linux prog "zbarimg" vs a photograph of 
the back of an ALDI bottle of ketchup.

>zbarimg ~/ALDIcode.jpg 
EAN-13:4088600080659
scanned 1 barcode symbols from 1 images in 0.14 seconds

... which is the small number printed near the barcode.

So they do use EAN-13 formatted barcodes! 

Whether they are paying the necessary to properly allocate them
is another matter, they may be just using some unused corner of 
the German numbering system for their own internal purposes :)


-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#214049

FromAndy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
Date2020-09-10 10:39 +0100
Message-ID<hruajdFo8ocU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#213994
Freddy1X wrote:

> Blue LEDs?  I can remember when red LEDs was a new and upcoming thing.
> Kids!  Harumph!

Given the difficulty in progressing from red to green, to blue to UV, 
didn't infra-red LEDs come before red?

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#213999

FromJorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
Date2020-09-09 06:02 +0000
Message-ID<slrnrlgs08.8c1.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>
In reply to#213977
On Tue, 2020-09-08, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2020-09-08, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
...
>> I thought the brightness and color would be issues
>> but they are that common LED blue.
>
> Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
> because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
> were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
> red or green LED cost $6 in blue.

I remember the "horribly expensive" phase. It included the early
1990s. I had a friend (also the one who convinced me to buy a
Commodore-Amiga) who was into electronics, and he showed me a price
listing: red, green and (gasp!) blue.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#214010

FromNiklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se>
Date2020-09-09 14:14 +0000
Message-ID<hrs6aiF9t9iU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#213977
On 2020-09-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
[blue LEDs]
> And they're now a horrible mandatory fad.  Maybe it's just me -
> my eyes never could focus on intense blue light - but I hate
> the way they're now used everywhere an indicator is needed,
> and in even more places where they're not.  I once ran a
> sound board in a darkened theatre, and I had to put three
> layers of masking tape over the board's bright blue pilot
> light so I could see anything else at all.  Grrr...

Maybe I'm lucky. Okay, my wireless access point does have an activity
indicator in blue, but otherwise it's all red and green here.

That blue light does do weird things to your eyes, definitely. I'm not
sure if there's any research on that subject.

Niklas
-- 
You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat
you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin' command here!
                              -- Jayne Cobb, _Firefly_

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#214011

FromDan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-09 10:18 -0400
Message-ID<rjao7l$ste$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#214010
Niklas Karlsson <anksil@yahoo.se> writes:

> On 2020-09-08, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> [blue LEDs]
>> And they're now a horrible mandatory fad.  Maybe it's just me -
>> my eyes never could focus on intense blue light - but I hate
>> the way they're now used everywhere an indicator is needed,
>> and in even more places where they're not.  I once ran a
>> sound board in a darkened theatre, and I had to put three
>> layers of masking tape over the board's bright blue pilot
>> light so I could see anything else at all.  Grrr...
>
> Maybe I'm lucky. Okay, my wireless access point does have an activity
> indicator in blue, but otherwise it's all red and green here.
>
> That blue light does do weird things to your eyes, definitely. I'm not
> sure if there's any research on that subject.

Sure there is.
It was prominently in the news about a year ago.

Too lazy to do any searches right now I think I'm headed outdoors for
some yard work, but search, I'm sure you'll find stuff.


-- 
Dan Espen

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#214031

FromJimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-09 14:49 -0500
Message-ID<69cilfhh998r3tk7d4d7e6q2vke4p58coi@4ax.com>
In reply to#213977
On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
>On 2020-09-08, Dan Espen <dan1espen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> drb@ihatespam.msu.edu (Dennis Boone) writes:
>>
>>> The actually hard part is brightness.  They're cheap; maybe order a few
>>> each of various brightnesses, test by touching the wires to the pads,
>>> solder in the one you like and save the rest of that type for future
>>> repairs, then give the rest to someone's hippie girlfriend for
>>> jewelry-making.
>>
>> Hippie girlfriend.  I love it.
>
>:-)
>
>> Actually that describes my deceased wife pretty well.
>>
>> I thought the brightness and color would be issues
>> but they are that common LED blue.
>
>Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
>because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
>were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
>red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
>
>And they're now a horrible mandatory fad.  Maybe it's just me -
>my eyes never could focus on intense blue light - but I hate
>the way they're now used everywhere an indicator is needed,
>and in even more places where they're not.  I once ran a
>sound board in a darkened theatre, and I had to put three
>layers of masking tape over the board's bright blue pilot
>light so I could see anything else at all.  Grrr...

I remember that only red LEDs were around when I first saw LEDs.

When I was a kid, the next town over had an almost movie palace. The
sides, in the seating, had mostly murals instead of lots of statues.
With a few statues. Fountain and more statues out in the lobby.

So every patron could see the time, there was a bright blue lit neon
clock less than a foot from the movie screen. Nice when watching the
1950s monsters from outer space movies, but not so much for the rest.

-- 
Jim

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#214032

Frommjb@signal11.invalid (Mike)
Date2020-09-09 20:36 +0100
Message-ID<rjbas2$bvm$1@posie.signal11.org.uk>
In reply to#213977
In article <rj8sul02f09@news1.newsguy.com>,
Charlie Gibbs  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

>Maybe it's just me -
>my eyes never could focus on intense blue light 

It's not just you. Even trying to get the optician to
compensate by tweaking things, red LEDs are crisp. Green ones
are slightly soft. Blue and "violet" point sources of light are 
blurry mess.


-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk  |    http://www.signal11.org.uk

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#214062

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-09-09 18:51 -0400
Message-ID<875z8mtvh0.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#213977
On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
> Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
> because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
> were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
> red or green LED cost $6 in blue.

Wasn't that just "recently", like early 2XXX? I seem to recall the same
is the case for white LEDs. Today almost every new car has them as front
light.
-- 
Andreas

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#214079

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2020-09-10 16:24 +0000
Message-ID<rjdk0r145q@news1.newsguy.com>
In reply to#214062
On 2020-09-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
>> because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
>> were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
>> red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
>
> Wasn't that just "recently", like early 2XXX?

That sounds about right.  I don't remember the exact date.

> I seem to recall the same is the case for white LEDs.
> Today almost every new car has them as front light.

They're also taking over as street lighting in many places.
We replaced the failing 70-watt high-pressure sodium wall packs
in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED units.  Although the
unit price is over twice as much, I calculate they will pay
for themselves in 10 years in electricity savings alone (and
aside from the infant mortality issues, they'll hopefully still
be going strong after those 10 years).

Figuring out how to make high-powered LEDs was a game-changer.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  Apple is a cult.
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  Linux is anarchy.
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  Pick your poison.

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#214110

FromJimP <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2020-09-10 14:58 -0500
Message-ID<q71llfh2e7l6j05fromn7au2t3ab3dedgm@4ax.com>
In reply to#214079
On 10 Sep 2020 16:24:59 GMT, Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
wrote:
>On 2020-09-09, Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
>>> because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
>>> were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
>>> red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
>>
>> Wasn't that just "recently", like early 2XXX?
>
>That sounds about right.  I don't remember the exact date.
>
>> I seem to recall the same is the case for white LEDs.
>> Today almost every new car has them as front light.
>
>They're also taking over as street lighting in many places.
>We replaced the failing 70-watt high-pressure sodium wall packs
>in our hangar complex with 25-watt LED units.  Although the
>unit price is over twice as much, I calculate they will pay
>for themselves in 10 years in electricity savings alone (and
>aside from the infant mortality issues, they'll hopefully still
>be going strong after those 10 years).
>
>Figuring out how to make high-powered LEDs was a game-changer.

Not quite in the same ballpark of power, but I bought a nice 5 watt
white LED flashlight a few months ago, and it is rechargable. On sale
for about $20.

-- 
Jim

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#214080

FromAhem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net>
Date2020-09-10 17:12 +0100
Message-ID<20200910171252.d34e51bae3c79af5d7db9745@eircom.net>
In reply to#214062
On Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:51:23 -0400
Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:

> On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
> > because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
> > were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
> > red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
> 
> Wasn't that just "recently", like early 2XXX? I seem to recall the same
> is the case for white LEDs. Today almost every new car has them as front
> light.

	White LEDs are blue LEDs shining through a phosphor that re-emits
in the red and yellow so they're coming from the same breakthrough.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith                          |   Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN                                     | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins.                |    licences available see
You lose and Bill collects.                 |    http://www.sohara.org/

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#214116

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2020-09-10 17:49 -0400
Message-ID<87een9b8vg.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#214080
On Thu, 10 Sep 2020 17:12:52 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Sep 2020 18:51:23 -0400
> Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8 Sep 2020 21:26:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> >
>> > Does anyone remember when there was no such thing as LED blue,
>> > because nobody had figured out how to make them?  Then they
>> > were available, but horribly expensive - your typical 25-cent
>> > red or green LED cost $6 in blue.
>> 
>> Wasn't that just "recently", like early 2XXX? I seem to recall the same
>> is the case for white LEDs. Today almost every new car has them as front
>> light.
>
> 	White LEDs are blue LEDs shining through a phosphor that re-emits
> in the red and yellow so they're coming from the same breakthrough.

Ah thanks.
-- 
Andreas

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