Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #161395 > unrolled thread

Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming?

Started by	Neo Fortune <serenity3043@gmail.com>
First post	2016-03-23 02:31 -0700
Last post	2016-03-30 14:56 +0100
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#162603

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-17 14:03 +0000
Message-ID	<PM000530AEB3A705C6@aca404ac.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162573

mausg@mail.com wrote:
> On 2016-04-16, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> Joy Beeson wrote:
>>> On 15 Apr 2016 12:18:44 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> <grin>  I had no idea Kroger still existed.
>>>
>>
>> The stores near Southboro, Mass had IQ-challenged people who would
>> help if a person needed it.  There's nothing like that here in
>> Mich.  I do remember bagboys taking the groceries out when I was
>> a kid.  New Jersey still has people who will pump gas for you.
>>
>>>
>
> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
> that they have made a mistake?

They don't make mistakes.  One guy explained how to pack groceries
into bags.  His Rule #1 is to pack the groceries the way he would
like to have them packed.  For example, he didn't like having
the bread and eggs at the bottom of the bag.

Another gal explained to me how to wash shelves.  Her shelves were
very clean when she was done.

The only "mistake" they do make is taking time to train us
customers :-).  An explanation can take a long time.  I admired
their work ethic, thoroughness and enjoyment of doing good
job.  you don't find that attitude in a lot of people who do
have an average or above-average IQ.

/BHA

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#162607

From	Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx>
Date	2016-04-17 09:23 -0500
Message-ID	<8760vgtito.fsf@senguio.mx>
In reply to	#162573

mausg@mail.com writes:
> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
> that they have made a mistake?
>

Back in the mid-80s there was an electronics assembly company that I
used frequently that was operated as a sheltered workshop -- they hired
the mentally retarded and trained them.

One day, I went down to drop off some blank boards to be stuffed, and
took a tour of the place.  I asked the owner PRECISELY that question and
his response was (I paraphrase -- it's 30 years ago) "You just tell
them, 'that's wrong' and show them how to do it right."

I mentioned my visit to my mother (who had spent 25 years teaching
special ed at the high school level) and asked her if she had the same
experience with her students.  "Oh, yes -- while there are exceptions I
can think of, the majority of my students[1] took correction well
... it's the GATE[2] students (with a burning stare) who believe themselves
to be infallable."

[1] She taught at a level that was, at the time classed "EMR -- Educable
Mentally Retarded" ... higher functioning 75-90 IQ, IIRC.  Since then,
the name of the group has changed to keep up with the Euphemism
Treadmill)

[2] "Gifted and Talented Education" -- the Euphemism of the Day for the
opposite end of the bell curve, where I studied.

--NK1G

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#162659

From	Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com>
Date	2016-04-18 13:07 +0100
Message-ID	<7KqdnaqimsVYUInKnZ2dnUU78QXNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#162607

On 17/04/2016 15:23, Lawrence Statton NK1G wrote:
> mausg@mail.com writes:
>> With the IQ challanged people, how do you tell them nicely
>> that they have made a mistake?
>>
>
> Back in the mid-80s there was an electronics assembly company that I
> used frequently that was operated as a sheltered workshop -- they hired
> the mentally retarded and trained them.
>
> One day, I went down to drop off some blank boards to be stuffed, and
> took a tour of the place.  I asked the owner PRECISELY that question and
> his response was (I paraphrase -- it's 30 years ago) "You just tell
> them, 'that's wrong' and show them how to do it right."
>
> I mentioned my visit to my mother (who had spent 25 years teaching
> special ed at the high school level) and asked her if she had the same
> experience with her students.  "Oh, yes -- while there are exceptions I
> can think of, the majority of my students[1] took correction well
> ... it's the GATE[2] students (with a burning stare) who believe themselves
> to be infallable."
>
>
> [1] She taught at a level that was, at the time classed "EMR -- Educable
> Mentally Retarded" ... higher functioning 75-90 IQ, IIRC.  Since then,
> the name of the group has changed to keep up with the Euphemism
> Treadmill)
>
> [2] "Gifted and Talented Education" -- the Euphemism of the Day for the
> opposite end of the bell curve, where I studied.
>
> --NK1G
>

So you treat them like a computer (or robot) and program them.

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#162774

From	Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com>
Date	2016-04-20 18:26 -0400
Message-ID	<proto-8DBD13.18261020042016@news.panix.com>
In reply to	#162607

In article <8760vgtito.fsf@senguio.mx>,
 Lawrence Statton NK1G <lawrence@senguio.mx> wrote:

> [1] She taught at a level that was, at the time classed "EMR -- Educable
> Mentally Retarded" ... higher functioning 75-90 IQ, IIRC.  Since then,
> the name of the group has changed to keep up with the Euphemism
> Treadmill)

But they may be the last group to have jobs, with a lot of work so 
routine that most readers couldn't do for long, because we would be
bored out of our skulls while they might find it intellectually 
stimulating.

-- 
 To terrify children with the image of hell,
 to consider women an inferior creation is that good for the world?  
  Christopher Hitchens

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#162446

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-14 12:52 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005307163663273@aca423ab.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162419

Joy Beeson wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
> Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
> white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
> "white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>
> I do add gluten when I make pizza.
>
>
I found a recipe using spelt flour (ingredients are figs and a lot
of black pepper).  I've never used spelt flour so making the bread
is on my todo list just to see whap happens.

/BAH

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#162454

From	Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Date	2016-04-14 15:54 +0200
Message-ID	<u0k4uc-hmb.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>
In reply to	#162419

In article <6qhtgbh0b3iiqrug9ji8cco8ddnapo73oe@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson  <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
>Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>"white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>
>I do add gluten when I make pizza.

I like the taste of some intermiced rye and barley in the bread.
It does not work with too much using standard breadmaking tools, but
I can generally add 2 of 7ths rye of 3 of 7th barley; but they I
have to use reasonably white wheat.

Adding more takes more work, but it is possible without making
the bread too heavy and dense, but it takes a lot more work.

-- mrr

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#162459

From	JimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-14 11:52 -0500
Message-ID	<cmivgbl61sov17l0ksoggjttlmfp7s7oc3@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162419

On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
<jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:

>On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>
>Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>"white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>
>I do add gluten when I make pizza.

I never added gluten to my 100% whole wheat bread.

-- 
JimP.

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#162478

From	Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
Date	2016-04-15 00:15 -0400
Message-ID	<alpine.LNX.2.02.1604150014100.16640@darkstar.example.org>
In reply to	#162459

On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, JimP wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>
>> Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>> white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>> "white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>>
>> I do add gluten when I make pizza.
>
> I never added gluten to my 100% whole wheat bread.
>
They say that wheat can vary quite a bit, apparently here in Canada it has 
greater gluten than in the US. Though I'm not sure how that explains your 
success.  I haven't been all that pleased with the whole wheat bread I've 
made, until I did start adding some white flour to it.

   Michael

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#162530

From	JimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-15 18:42 -0500
Message-ID	<quu2hbh6cl1p9ah3ivugab6lqpam33tf1v@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162478

On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 00:15:16 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, JimP wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>>> white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>>> "white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>>>
>>> I do add gluten when I make pizza.
>>
>> I never added gluten to my 100% whole wheat bread.
>>
>They say that wheat can vary quite a bit, apparently here in Canada it has 
>greater gluten than in the US. Though I'm not sure how that explains your 
>success.  I haven't been all that pleased with the whole wheat bread I've 
>made, until I did start adding some white flour to it.
>
>   Michael

What I discovered was that if I knead the dough with 100$ whole what
flour in it, it bakes and then becomes extremely chewy and hard to
eat.

Just mix the ingredients and then let rise above the edge of the bread
pan, tap the bread pan, let it rise again, and then bake until done.
Turns out a light breat that tastes like cake flour. I didn't use a
specialty flour, just a regular whole what flour from a supermarket.

-- 
JimP.

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#162555

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-16 13:13 +0000
Message-ID	<PM0005309990B7EE84@aca4007c.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162530

JimP wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 00:15:16 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
> wrote:
>>On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, JimP wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
>>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>>>> white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>>>> "white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>>>>
>>>> I do add gluten when I make pizza.
>>>
>>> I never added gluten to my 100% whole wheat bread.
>>>
>>They say that wheat can vary quite a bit, apparently here in Canada it has
>>greater gluten than in the US. Though I'm not sure how that explains your
>>success.  I haven't been all that pleased with the whole wheat bread I've
>>made, until I did start adding some white flour to it.
>>
>>   Michael
>
> What I discovered was that if I knead the dough with 100$ whole what
> flour in it, it bakes and then becomes extremely chewy and hard to
> eat.
>
> Just mix the ingredients and then let rise above the edge of the bread
> pan, tap the bread pan, let it rise again, and then bake until done.
> Turns out a light breat that tastes like cake flour. I didn't use a
> specialty flour, just a regular whole what flour from a supermarket.

Kewl.  I'll try that technique.  Kneading is supposed to release the
gluten.

/BAH

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#162557

From	JimP <solosam90@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-16 08:32 -0500
Message-ID	<4lf4hb5sooq9dej4n8m0eassut7tosaihn@4ax.com>
In reply to	#162555

On 16 Apr 2016 13:13:31 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:

>JimP wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Apr 2016 00:15:16 -0400, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>
>> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 14 Apr 2016, JimP wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 13 Apr 2016 19:31:30 -0300, Joy Beeson
>>>> <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 12 Apr 2016 12:47:00 GMT, jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can't use 100% whole wheat.  Try 3 cups white flour for every
>>>>>> cup of whole wheat and you'll have a better bread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you can't, but mine is great.  But then I buy hard red and
>>>>> white wheat flours at the mill.  ("red" (brown) wheat has more flavor,
>>>>> "white" (tan) wheat is more delicate and makes better cheese sauce.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I do add gluten when I make pizza.
>>>>
>>>> I never added gluten to my 100% whole wheat bread.
>>>>
>>>They say that wheat can vary quite a bit, apparently here in Canada it has
>>>greater gluten than in the US. Though I'm not sure how that explains your
>>>success.  I haven't been all that pleased with the whole wheat bread I've
>>>made, until I did start adding some white flour to it.
>>>
>>>   Michael
>>
>> What I discovered was that if I knead the dough with 100$ whole what
>> flour in it, it bakes and then becomes extremely chewy and hard to
>> eat.
>>
>> Just mix the ingredients and then let rise above the edge of the bread
>> pan, tap the bread pan, let it rise again, and then bake until done.
>> Turns out a light breat that tastes like cake flour. I didn't use a
>> specialty flour, just a regular whole what flour from a supermarket.
>
>Kewl.  I'll try that technique.  Kneading is supposed to release the
>gluten.
>
>/BAH

It took some getting used to... my first several attempts didn't work.

-- 
JimP.

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#162261

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-12 05:02 +1000
Message-ID	<dn2anaFio9lU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162252


"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message 
news:bmhstc-q78.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
> In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
> jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
>>>>> the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>
>>> Wow!
>>>
>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>
>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>weight would increase.
>
> The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
> processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
> starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>
> This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
> government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of agricultural
> subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
> and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
> work towards this end.

That isn't the same as "the government is doing
everything thing the can do to increase obesity"

And agricultural regulation, food pricing and
regulation doesn’t increase obesity anyway.

Its hard to argue that even food stamps do given that
the alternative is fast food which is much easier to
become obese with.

> So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible
> for a lot of the population's weight gain.

I still don’t buy your much more reduced claim.

> Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!

Mine tried to make me eat broccoli and when she lost
that fight, wasn’t actually stupid enough to try that again.

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#162287

From	"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-11 19:04 -0400
Message-ID	<MPG.3175f7766854aa0198a0b9@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#162261

In article <dn2anaFio9lU1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
> 
> "Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:bmhstc-q78.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
> > In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
> > jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> >>Dan Espen wrote:
> >>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
> >>>
> >>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
> >>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
> >>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
> >>>>> the engine.
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
> >>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
> >>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
> >>>
> >>> Wow!
> >>>
> >>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
> >>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
> >>
> >>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
> >>weight would increase.
> >
> > The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
> > processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
> > starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
> >
> > This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
> > government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of agricultural
> > subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
> > and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
> > work towards this end.
> 
> That isn't the same as "the government is doing
> everything thing the can do to increase obesity"
> 
> And agricultural regulation, food pricing and
> regulation doesn?t increase obesity anyway.
> 
> Its hard to argue that even food stamps do given that
> the alternative is fast food which is much easier to
> become obese with.

How is "fast food" the "alternative to food stamps"?  There seems to be 
this bizarre notion that people who can't afford to buy food in a 
grocery store can somehow afford to buy food at McDonalds.  McDonalds is 
not _cheap_.
 
> > So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible
> > for a lot of the population's weight gain.
> 
> I still don?t buy your much more reduced claim.
> 
> > Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
> 
> Mine tried to make me eat broccoli and when she lost
> that fight, wasn?t actually stupid enough to try that again.

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#162289

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-12 09:33 +1000
Message-ID	<dn2qj5Fmn32U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162287


"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.3175f7766854aa0198a0b9@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <dn2anaFio9lU1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
>>
>> "Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:bmhstc-q78.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
>> > In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>> > jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >>Dan Espen wrote:
>> >>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>> >>>
>> >>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> >>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>> >>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong 
>> >>>>> place
>> >>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on 
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> the engine.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) 
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>> >>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>> >>>
>> >>> Wow!
>> >>>
>> >>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>> >>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>> >>
>> >>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>> >>weight would increase.
>> >
>> > The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>> > processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
>> > starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>> >
>> > This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>> > government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of 
>> > agricultural
>> > subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
>> > and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>> > work towards this end.
>>
>> That isn't the same as "the government is doing
>> everything thing the can do to increase obesity"
>>
>> And agricultural regulation, food pricing and
>> regulation doesn?t increase obesity anyway.
>>
>> Its hard to argue that even food stamps do given that
>> the alternative is fast food which is much easier to
>> become obese with.
>
> How is "fast food" the "alternative to food stamps"?

Its what a large part of the market eats, either
fast food or what they get using food stamps.

> There seems to be this bizarre notion that people
> who can't afford to buy food in a grocery store

We aren't talking about people who can't afford to buy food
in a grocery store, we are talking about what obese people eat.

> can somehow afford to buy food at McDonalds.
> McDonalds is not _cheap_.

It is in fact very affordable for almost everyone.

And because it is so calorie rich, and because of the
'supersize me' approach they take, is a large part of
the reason for the obesity epidemic.

>> > So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible
>> > for a lot of the population's weight gain.
>>
>> I still don?t buy your much more reduced claim.
>>
>> > Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>>
>> Mine tried to make me eat broccoli and when she lost
>> that fight, wasn?t actually stupid enough to try that again.
>

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#162292

From	"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-11 20:57 -0400
Message-ID	<MPG.3176121ddfbe804a98a0bb@news.eternal-september.org>
In reply to	#162289

In article <dn2qj5Fmn32U1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
> 
> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:MPG.3175f7766854aa0198a0b9@news.eternal-september.org...
> > In article <dn2anaFio9lU1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >> "Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message
> >> news:bmhstc-q78.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
> >> > In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
> >> > jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >>Dan Espen wrote:
> >> >>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
> >> >>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
> >> >>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong 
> >> >>>>> place
> >> >>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on 
> >> >>>>> in
> >> >>>>> the engine.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) 
> >> >>>> are
> >> >>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
> >> >>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Wow!
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
> >> >>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
> >> >>
> >> >>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
> >> >>weight would increase.
> >> >
> >> > The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
> >> > processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars and
> >> > starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
> >> >
> >> > This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
> >> > government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of 
> >> > agricultural
> >> > subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation etc.
> >> > and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
> >> > work towards this end.
> >>
> >> That isn't the same as "the government is doing
> >> everything thing the can do to increase obesity"
> >>
> >> And agricultural regulation, food pricing and
> >> regulation doesn?t increase obesity anyway.
> >>
> >> Its hard to argue that even food stamps do given that
> >> the alternative is fast food which is much easier to
> >> become obese with.
> >
> > How is "fast food" the "alternative to food stamps"?
> 
> Its what a large part of the market eats, either
> fast food or what they get using food stamps.

How do they get it if they are so poor they qualify for food stamps?
> 
> > There seems to be this bizarre notion that people
> > who can't afford to buy food in a grocery store
> 
> We aren't talking about people who can't afford to buy food
> in a grocery store, we are talking about what obese people eat.

So which is it, are you on about people on food stamps or are you on 
about people who are well enough off to be able to buy food?
 
> > can somehow afford to buy food at McDonalds.
> > McDonalds is not _cheap_.
> 
> It is in fact very affordable for almost everyone.

Not for people who qualify for food stamps it isn't.
 
> And because it is so calorie rich, and because of the
> 'supersize me' approach they take, is a large part of
> the reason for the obesity epidemic.

Perhaps it is but this has nothing to do with food stamps.
> 
> >> > So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible
> >> > for a lot of the population's weight gain.
> >>
> >> I still don?t buy your much more reduced claim.
> >>
> >> > Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
> >>
> >> Mine tried to make me eat broccoli and when she lost
> >> that fight, wasn?t actually stupid enough to try that again.
> >
>

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#162298

From	"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-12 15:08 +1000
Message-ID	<dn3e6aFqupdU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162292


"J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:MPG.3176121ddfbe804a98a0bb@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <dn2qj5Fmn32U1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
>>
>> "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.3175f7766854aa0198a0b9@news.eternal-september.org...
>> > In article <dn2anaFio9lU1@mid.individual.net>, 3899jk@gmail.com says...
>> >>
>> >> "Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message
>> >> news:bmhstc-q78.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
>> >> > In article <PM000530346BFD1637@aca4464e.ipt.aol.com>,
>> >> > jmfbahciv  <See.above@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >>Dan Espen wrote:
>> >> >>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> In article 
>> >> >>>> <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>> >> >>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>> >> >>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong
>> >> >>>>> place
>> >> >>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes 
>> >> >>>>> on
>> >> >>>>> in
>> >> >>>>> the engine.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the 
>> >> >>>> drivers)
>> >> >>>> are
>> >> >>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing 
>> >> >>>> everything
>> >> >>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Wow!
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>> >> >>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>> >> >>weight would increase.
>> >> >
>> >> > The various governments we have are also very guilty of nudging our
>> >> > processed food towards a content of "very fast carbs", i.e. sugars 
>> >> > and
>> >> > starches, and this has supplanted vegs, fibers, proteins etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > This has been done all through the value chain, and even though many
>> >> > government agencies may feign innocence, the total amount of
>> >> > agricultural
>> >> > subsidies, agricultural regulations, food pricing and regulation 
>> >> > etc.
>> >> > and the purchase regimes for foods (through food stamps etc) all
>> >> > work towards this end.
>> >>
>> >> That isn't the same as "the government is doing
>> >> everything thing the can do to increase obesity"
>> >>
>> >> And agricultural regulation, food pricing and
>> >> regulation doesn?t increase obesity anyway.
>> >>
>> >> Its hard to argue that even food stamps do given that
>> >> the alternative is fast food which is much easier to
>> >> become obese with.
>> >
>> > How is "fast food" the "alternative to food stamps"?
>>
>> Its what a large part of the market eats, either
>> fast food or what they get using food stamps.

> How do they get it if they are so poor they qualify for food stamps?

With their income. Plenty of working people qualify for food stamps
and even those who don't get more than just food stamps. They have
to pay their rent, electricity, water etc.

>> > There seems to be this bizarre notion that people
>> > who can't afford to buy food in a grocery store
>>
>> We aren't talking about people who can't afford to buy food
>> in a grocery store, we are talking about what obese people eat.
>
> So which is it, are you on about people on food stamps or are you on
> about people who are well enough off to be able to buy food?

Plenty do both.

>> > can somehow afford to buy food at McDonalds.
>> > McDonalds is not _cheap_.
>>
>> It is in fact very affordable for almost everyone.
>
> Not for people who qualify for food stamps it isn't.

Yes it is. Plenty of people who get food stamps
work and get paid for what work they do.

And those who don't work don't just get food stamps.

>> And because it is so calorie rich, and because of the
>> 'supersize me' approach they take, is a large part of
>> the reason for the obesity epidemic.
>
> Perhaps it is

No perhaps about it.

> but this has nothing to do with food stamps.

We were discussing the original claim that the govt
is doing everything it can to increase obesity.

It clearly isnt when it hands out food stamps.

>> >> > So, yes, our governments are pretty much responsible
>> >> > for a lot of the population's weight gain.
>> >>
>> >> I still don?t buy your much more reduced claim.
>> >>
>> >> > Remember, eat your fish and carrots, like your mom told you to!
>> >>
>> >> Mine tried to make me eat broccoli and when she lost
>> >> that fight, wasn?t actually stupid enough to try that again.
>> >
>>
>
>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162253

From	scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date	2016-04-11 12:58 +0000
Message-ID	<ybNOy.25741$Bc3.18135@fx05.iad>
In reply to	#162251

jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>Dan Espen wrote:
>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>
>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
>>>> the engine.
>>>
>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>
>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>weight would increase.

Yet another unsupportable assertion from Barb.   I don't suppose
you could actually support your assertion with some actual facts,
like the daily recommended caloric intakes published by some
federal government agency?

http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/usda_food_patterns/EstimatedCalorieNeedsPerDayTable.pdf

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162321

From	jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com>
Date	2016-04-12 12:50 +0000
Message-ID	<PM000530491999FCFF@aca41e19.ipt.aol.com>
In reply to	#162253

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
>>>>> the engine.
>>>>
>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>
>>> Wow!
>>>
>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>
>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>weight would increase.
>
> Yet another unsupportable assertion from Barb.   I don't suppose
> you could actually support your assertion with some actual facts,
> like the daily recommended caloric intakes published by some
> federal government agency?
>
> http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/usda_food_patterns/EstimatedCal
orieNeedsPerDayTable.pdf



Obeying the recommendations of the food pyramid is a lot of food
each day.  Excess calories are supposed to be turned into fat
and stored in the body; that's a biological feature.

/BAH

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#162328

From	scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date	2016-04-12 14:07 +0000
Message-ID	<Ei7Py.12109$_K.8419@fx38.iad>
In reply to	#162321

jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong place
>>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on in
>>>>>> the engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) are
>>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>>
>>>> Wow!
>>>>
>>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>>
>>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>>weight would increase.
>>
>> Yet another unsupportable assertion from Barb.   I don't suppose
>> you could actually support your assertion with some actual facts,
>> like the daily recommended caloric intakes published by some
>> federal government agency?
>>
>> http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/usda_food_patterns/EstimatedCal
>orieNeedsPerDayTable.pdf
>
>
>
>Obeying the recommendations of the food pyramid is a lot of food
>each day.  Excess calories are supposed to be turned into fat
>and stored in the body; that's a biological feature.

Lack of facts, noted.

You obviously totally ignored the link, which is a recommended caloric
intake which has nothing to do with the 'food pyramid'.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#162339

From	"3899jk" <3899jk@gmail.com>
Date	2016-04-13 05:11 +1000
Message-ID	<dn4vigF8udbU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#162321


"jmfbahciv" <See.above@aol.com> wrote in message 
news:PM000530491999FCFF@aca41e19.ipt.aol.com...
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> writes:
>>>Dan Espen wrote:
>>>> Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <MPG.316b7c2a14d4f4a698a077@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>>>  "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Disaster is more likely to come
>>>>>> from not understanding that putting too much weight in the wrong 
>>>>>> place
>>>>>> can cause control problems than from not understanding what goes on 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> the engine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh yes. Some drivers overload their car, because they (the drivers) 
>>>>> are
>>>>> so obese. What do you expect when the government is doing everything
>>>>> thing the can do to increase obesity?
>>>>
>>>> Wow!
>>>>
>>>> Can only guess that you are blaming your own over eating on the
>>>> government.  No cops in my kitchen, how about you?
>>>
>>>If you obeyed what the government recommends you should eat, your
>>>weight would increase.
>>
>> Yet another unsupportable assertion from Barb.   I don't suppose
>> you could actually support your assertion with some actual facts,
>> like the daily recommended caloric intakes published by some
>> federal government agency?
>>
>> http://www.cnpp.usda.gov/sites/default/files/usda_food_patterns/EstimatedCal
> orieNeedsPerDayTable.pdf
>
>
>
> Obeying the recommendations of the food pyramid is a lot of food each day.

Bullshit.

> Excess calories are supposed to be turned into fat
> and stored in the body; that's a biological feature.

Doesn’t happen with some stuff like your greens.

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csiph-web

Which Books Can You Recommend For Learning Computer Programming?

Contents

#162603

#162607

#162659

#162774

#162446

#162454

#162459

#162478

#162530

#162555

#162557

#162261

#162287

#162289

#162292

#162298

#162253

#162321

#162328

#162339