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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #163994 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-05-26 09:10 +0200 |
| Last post | 2016-06-04 22:15 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 87 — 30 participants |
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[BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> - 2016-05-26 09:10 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-26 00:28 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-26 12:40 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-05-26 07:42 -0600
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-26 09:00 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-26 07:09 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-05-26 07:28 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-26 12:43 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-05-26 14:01 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-26 16:22 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2016-05-27 13:08 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> - 2016-05-27 07:43 -0600
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> - 2016-05-27 15:58 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2016-05-27 17:13 +0300
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-27 16:36 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-05-27 15:48 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-27 12:47 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-28 22:48 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) - 2016-05-29 09:55 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 07:26 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca> - 2016-05-30 12:48 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-30 13:37 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-30 13:35 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-30 23:26 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-30 23:34 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' roger.ivie@gmail.com - 2016-05-30 21:23 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-31 07:11 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-05-31 10:46 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-31 21:28 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-05-31 11:37 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-31 16:49 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-31 21:35 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-31 20:21 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.imvalid> - 2016-06-01 01:33 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 00:13 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last,name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 08:34 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 06:32 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-06-01 12:01 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:41 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 21:39 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 16:46 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-02 12:10 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@Last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 13:12 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-06-01 13:07 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 16:54 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 07:15 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-01 10:20 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-06-01 14:26 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-01 14:03 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-01 18:09 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-06-02 15:23 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 14:31 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-02 20:44 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-06-02 16:01 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-06-02 18:28 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-06-01 13:52 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 16:19 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-06-01 15:35 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-06-01 17:42 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-31 14:16 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-31 16:09 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-31 20:24 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-06-01 07:14 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-31 17:41 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-05-31 19:24 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 10:45 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-05-31 07:03 +0100
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-31 10:16 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-05-31 15:51 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-31 07:23 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-05-31 16:49 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-31 17:36 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-05-31 07:16 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-28 13:11 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-05-28 16:50 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' mausg@mail.com - 2016-05-29 10:08 +0000
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-29 15:04 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 16:41 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-31 17:29 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-06-01 10:24 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 07:26 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-05-29 07:11 -0500
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-05-29 15:09 +0200
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-05-29 16:41 -0400
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-05-31 17:26 -0700
Re: [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-06-04 22:15 -0500
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| From | Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 09:10 +0200 |
| Subject | [BBC] US nuclear force 'still uses floppy disks' |
| Message-ID | <slrnnkd8c2.e8s.dnied@dnied-at-tiscali.it> |
From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". ¦ ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. ¦ ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." ¦ ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system ¦ by the end of 2020. ¦ ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 -- Dario Niedermann. Also on the Internet at: gopher://retro-net.org/1/dnied/ , http://devio.us/~ndr/
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 00:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <cc756734-8fb2-484a-bbf6-3365d2b61c0a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #163994 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:11:00 AM UTC-6, Dario Niedermann wrote: > From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: > > ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer > ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". > ¦ > ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," > ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. > ¦ > ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure > ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." > ¦ > ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system > ¦ by the end of 2020. > ¦ > ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said > ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s > ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 The report that led to this news story has some errors. The agency with the IBM Series/1 computer reported to the GAO that it was 53 years old, which would make it from 1963, which is almost ten years before it actually did become available. John Savard
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 12:40 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1605261240001.24410@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #163995 |
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On Thu, 26 May 2016, Quadibloc wrote: > On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 1:11:00 AM UTC-6, Dario Niedermann wrote: >> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >> >> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >> ¦ >> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >> ¦ >> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >> ¦ by the end of 2020. >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >> >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 > > The report that led to this news story has some errors. The agency with the IBM > Series/1 computer reported to the GAO that it was 53 years old, which would > make it from 1963, which is almost ten years before it actually did become > available. > And there weren't floppy drives in 1963. Michael
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| From | Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 07:42 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <eZqdneMWfOjFYNvKnZ2dnUU7-aXNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #163994 |
On 05/26/2016 01:10 AM, Dario Niedermann wrote: > From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: > > ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer > ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". > ¦ > ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," > ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. > ¦ > ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure > ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." > ¦ > ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system > ¦ by the end of 2020. > ¦ > ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said > ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s > ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 > > Yes, many older systems are in use in government facilities. I just sold an 8-inch DSDD floppy subsystem for a TI-990, installed in 1985, to a VA hospital. As their other backup device had died. Also, I get downloads of my TI-990 cross support software by government contractors to support old TI gear. You can still buy a new mil-spec TMS 9995 from Rochester Electronics. Older TOW missile launchers used this chip and are still in service. -- Dave Pitts PULLMAN: Travel and sleep in safety and comfort. dpitts@cozx.com
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| From | JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 09:00 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <090ekbh10hkcf07dunoslrc1e0a4pb8m64@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #164013 |
On Thu, 26 May 2016 07:42:47 -0600, Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> wrote: >On 05/26/2016 01:10 AM, Dario Niedermann wrote: >> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >> >> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >> ¦ >> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >> ¦ >> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >> ¦ by the end of 2020. >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >> >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >> >> > >Yes, many older systems are in use in government facilities. I just sold an >8-inch DSDD floppy subsystem for a TI-990, installed in 1985, to a VA hospital. >As their other backup device had died. > >Also, I get downloads of my TI-990 cross support software by government >contractors to support old TI gear. You can still buy a new mil-spec TMS 9995 >from Rochester Electronics. Older TOW missile launchers used this chip and are >still in service. There was a news item on local news this week. They mentioned that the IRS and SSA use decades old computers. It would cost millions, a mere drop in the bucket budget wise, to replace them so of course they haven't been replaced yet. -- JimP.
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| From | Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 07:09 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <35779e7f-2142-4927-900d-de3416fabdab@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #164014 |
On Thursday, May 26, 2016 at 8:01:52 AM UTC-6, JimP wrote: > There was a news item on local news this week. They mentioned that the > IRS and SSA use decades old computers. It would cost millions, a mere > drop in the bucket budget wise, to replace them so of course they > haven't been replaced yet. Even if it cost trillions to replace the computers, they still wouldn't be more likely to be replaced because of that unless the replacements were made in the right Congressman's district! John Savard
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| From | Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 07:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <87wpmgopve.fsf@garlic.com> |
| In reply to | #164014 |
JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> writes: > There was a news item on local news this week. They mentioned that the > IRS and SSA use decades old computers. It would cost millions, a mere > drop in the bucket budget wise, to replace them so of course they > haven't been replaced yet. just about every fed. gov. agency has had multiple dataprocessing modernization projects that failed over the last 20-30yrs ... many of the failed projects have run billions (not millions). reference to the "Success of Failure" culture in for-profit gov. contractors http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submisc.html#success.of.failure misc past posts mentioning dataprocessing modernization http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2005e.html#29 Using the Cache to Change the Width of Memory http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#52 US Air computers delay psgrs http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#38 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies (Actually, Working under the table!) http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#41 IBM--disposition of clock business http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2008m.html#45 IBM--disposition of clock business http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2009j.html#1 Is it possible to have an alternative payment system without riding on the Card Network platforms? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#19 STEM crisis http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012g.html#89 FAA air traffic facility consolidation effort already late http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#42 Simulated PDP-11 Blinkenlight front panel for SimH http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012i.html#45 Simulated PDP-11 Blinkenlight front panel for SimH http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2012k.html#7 Is there a connection between your strategic and tactical assertions? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#7 From build to buy: American Airlines changes modernization course midflight http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#19 Where Does the Cloud Cover the Mainframe? http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#74 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#42 The Mainframe is "Alive and Kicking" http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013j.html#70 Internet Mainframe Forums Considered Harmful http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#69 PDCA vs. OODA http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2014d.html#3 Let's Face It--It's the Cyber Era and We're Cyber Dumb http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#19 The IBM Strategy http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#59 A-10 http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#76 Greedy Banks Nailed With $5 BILLION+ Fine For Fraud And Corruption http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#20 Credit card fraud solution coming to America...finally http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#42 No, the F-35 Can't Fight at Long Range, Either http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#17 the legacy of Seymour Cray http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#45 rationality http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016b.html#39 Failure as a Way of Life; The logic of lost wars and military-industrial boondoggles http://manana.garlic.com/~lynn/2016b.html#107 Qbasic - lies about Medicare -- virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 12:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1605261240280.24410@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #164013 |
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On Thu, 26 May 2016, Dave Pitts wrote: > On 05/26/2016 01:10 AM, Dario Niedermann wrote: >> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >> >> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >> ¦ >> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >> ¦ >> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >> ¦ by the end of 2020. >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >> >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >> >> > > Yes, many older systems are in use in government facilities. I just sold an > 8-inch DSDD floppy subsystem for a TI-990, installed in 1985, to a VA > hospital. As their other backup device had died. > > Also, I get downloads of my TI-990 cross support software by government > contractors to support old TI gear. You can still buy a new mil-spec TMS 9995 > from Rochester Electronics. Older TOW missile launchers used this chip and > are still in service. > And it's not a unique story. Was it a decade ago NASA was asking for old hardware, I think specifically Intel CPUs, in order to keep old hardware running? Even the Shuttle ran with "obsolete" computers, since it took so long between design and actual launch. If they updated, not only would it be expensive, but it would probably need updating after the update. These things are relatively specific, not your desktop computer. Changing hardware likely means changing the software, and all the bugs that go with new software. Unless the old hardware becomes too slow (not likely since the whole system is now old), or can't be replaced, the safest choice is to remain with it. It's not a case of keeping up with the Jonses, for the sake of appearances. Michael
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| From | Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 14:01 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <SOSdnVURqZiR1drKnZ2dnUU7-dnNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #164021 |
Michael Black wrote: > Even the Shuttle ran with "obsolete" computers, since it took so long > between design and actual launch. If they updated, not only would it be > expensive, but it would probably need updating after the update. Yes, the original Shuttles used IBM AP101B processor, a descendant of the IBM 360 / 4Pi machines. The AP-1 was used on the F-15, so that dates it to about 1970. And, the AP-101B is a derivative of that. I think one of the Shuttles that was rebuilt used a network of ruggedized VAXes, but now I can't find much online to verify that. Jon
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-26 16:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1411116550.485986747.251928.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #164013 |
Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> wrote: > On 05/26/2016 01:10 AM, Dario Niedermann wrote: >> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >> >> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >> ¦ >> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >> ¦ >> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >> ¦ by the end of 2020. >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >> >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >> >> > > Yes, many older systems are in use in government facilities. I just sold an > 8-inch DSDD floppy subsystem for a TI-990, installed in 1985, to a VA hospital. > As their other backup device had died. > > Also, I get downloads of my TI-990 cross support software by government > contractors to support old TI gear. You can still buy a new mil-spec TMS 9995 > from Rochester Electronics. Older TOW missile launchers used this chip and are > still in service. > > It doesn't make much sense to upgrade an embedded system. Redoing all the software and validating it would be prohibitive. Update the computer system when you replace the associated hardware. -- Pete
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| From | RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 13:08 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <dqqv7bF2rquU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #163994 |
On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: > From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: > > ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer > ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". > ¦ > ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," > ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. > ¦ > ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure > ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." > ¦ > ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system > ¦ by the end of 2020. > ¦ > ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said > ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s > ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". > > > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 > > Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche processing that would affect its viability. As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train somebody to understand the code, and be done with it.
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| From | Dave Pitts <dpitts@cozx.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 07:43 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <EKydnR9-vaVq09XKnZ2dnUU7-bvNnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #164058 |
On 05/27/2016 07:08 AM, RS Wood wrote: > On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann<dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: > Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as > necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly > requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and > there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche > processing that would affect its viability. > New media is available. I bought a box of 8 inch DSDD floppies last year and I sent it on to the VA hospital to whom I'd sold the TI floppy subsystem. > As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last > guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train > somebody to understand the code, and be done with it. Not just assembly language. I've been working with a company that has a large application using TI-990 COBOL and has had issues trying to port it. So, they keep the TI systems running. Most of the issues aren't the COBOL porting; but, with the custom devices hung on the system. -- Dave Pitts PULLMAN: Travel and sleep in safety and comfort. dpitts@cozx.com
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| From | Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btopenworld.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 15:58 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <VZydnTvWUZwK_dXKnZ2dnUU78I3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #164059 |
On 27/05/2016 14:43, Dave Pitts wrote:
> On 05/27/2016 07:08 AM, RS Wood wrote:
{snip}>
>> As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the
>> last
>> guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it?
>> Train
>> somebody to understand the code, and be done with it.
>
> Not just assembly language. I've been working with a company that has a
> large application using TI-990 COBOL and has had issues trying to port
> it. So, they keep the TI systems running. Most of the issues aren't the
> COBOL porting; but, with the custom devices hung on the system.
>
This will hit problems when they can no longer obtain spare parts for
the custom devices.
I suspect that someone has programmed a FPGA to simulate a TI-990 but
weird hardware has to be redesigned.
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| From | Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 17:13 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <vg3vb1zoag6.fsf@coffee.modeemi.fi> |
| In reply to | #164058 |
RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes: > Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as > necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly > requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and > there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche > processing that would affect its viability. A company called Athana has been mentioned in the Commodore newsgroup in the last few years. On their website (http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html) they offer a selection of floppy disks, including 8" ones, unformatted or formatted in one of five different formats. Assuming the company is still in business (their website has a distinct last millennium flavor) I have to assume they produce the floppies only when someone places an order if they still have the equipment in working order... They do have a GSA info page which indicates they have supplied the government in the past at least.
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| From | Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 16:36 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <20160527163646.3d50782f27843ea50485b54e@eircom.net> |
| In reply to | #164060 |
On Fri, 27 May 2016 17:13:45 +0300 Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote: > RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> writes: > > > Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as > > necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly > > requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and > > there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche > > processing that would affect its viability. > > A company called Athana has been mentioned in the Commodore newsgroup in > the last few years. On their website > (http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html) they offer a selection of > floppy disks, including 8" ones, unformatted or formatted in one of five > different formats. > > Assuming the company is still in business (their website has a distinct > last millennium flavor) I have to assume they produce the floppies only Still would be the word, I used to buy their floppies along with Dysan back when floppies were common. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
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| From | Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 15:48 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <ghmgkb5olkr3lrjuhn7uoo7u8ss6thb2t8@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #164058 |
On 27 May 2016 13:08:59 GMT, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: >> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >> >> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >> ¦ >> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >> ¦ >> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >> ¦ by the end of 2020. >> ¦ >> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >> >> >> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >> >> >Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as >necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly >requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and >there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche >processing that would affect its viability. > >As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last >guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train >somebody to understand the code, and be done with it. They probably have a stock of 8" floppy disks that can be used and reused as needed. I chucked a box full in the bin when I moved house 3 years ago. One day floppy discs will become valuable antiques! Someone, somewhere will have a few thousand for sale if the price is right. Steve -- Neural Network Software for Windows http://www.npsnn.com
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-27 12:47 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1605271243410.26306@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #164062 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Fri, 27 May 2016, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote: > On 27 May 2016 13:08:59 GMT, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: > >> On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: >>> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >>> >>> ¦ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >>> ¦ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >>> ¦ >>> ¦ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >>> ¦ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >>> ¦ >>> ¦ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >>> ¦ digital devices by the end of 2017." >>> ¦ >>> ¦ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >>> ¦ by the end of 2020. >>> ¦ >>> ¦ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >>> ¦ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >>> ¦ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >>> >>> >>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >>> >>> >> Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as >> necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly >> requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and >> there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche >> processing that would affect its viability. >> >> As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last >> guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train >> somebody to understand the code, and be done with it. > > They probably have a stock of 8" floppy disks that can be used and > reused as needed. I chucked a box full in the bin when I moved house 3 > years ago. One day floppy discs will become valuable antiques! > Someone, somewhere will have a few thousand for sale if the price is > right. > The only 8" floppies I've seen up close was the box I found behind a church after their rummage sale was over. Made me regret not going to that sale, I wonder if a computer that went with those floppies was for sale. So I did bring that box home, a novelty since I have no drives for 8" floppies. People are still finding new old stock vacuum tubes, so I can imagine there being lots of stock of old floppies still available. There probably are places that search for them, buying them up when available, to keep their stock ready. A diminishing demand, but for those who need them, the money is probably there. I can't quite imagine 5.25" floppies becoming collectible antiques. There were so many made, I have a ton of them (used), and I'm not the only one. If I actually went back and copied the 5.25" floppies I used, I could free them up. Michael
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| From | Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-28 15:18 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <710606343.486145189.306878.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #164069 |
Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: > On Fri, 27 May 2016, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote: > >> On 27 May 2016 13:08:59 GMT, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >> >>> On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: >>>> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >>>> >>>> Ķ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >>>> Ķ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >>>> Ķ >>>> Ķ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >>>> Ķ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >>>> Ķ >>>> Ķ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >>>> Ķ digital devices by the end of 2017." >>>> Ķ >>>> Ķ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >>>> Ķ by the end of 2020. >>>> Ķ >>>> Ķ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >>>> Ķ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >>>> Ķ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >>>> >>>> >>> Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as >>> necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly >>> requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and >>> there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche >>> processing that would affect its viability. >>> >>> As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last >>> guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train >>> somebody to understand the code, and be done with it. >> >> They probably have a stock of 8" floppy disks that can be used and >> reused as needed. I chucked a box full in the bin when I moved house 3 >> years ago. One day floppy discs will become valuable antiques! >> Someone, somewhere will have a few thousand for sale if the price is >> right. >> > The only 8" floppies I've seen up close was the box I found behind a > church after their rummage sale was over. Made me regret not going to > that sale, I wonder if a computer that went with those floppies was > for sale. So I did bring that box home, a novelty since I have no drives > for 8" floppies. > > People are still finding new old stock vacuum tubes, so I can imagine > there being lots of stock of old floppies still available. There probably > are places that search for them, buying them up when available, to keep > their stock ready. A diminishing demand, but for those who need them, the > money is probably there. > > I can't quite imagine 5.25" floppies becoming collectible antiques. There > were so many made, I have a ton of them (used), and I'm not the only one. > > If I actually went back and copied the 5.25" floppies I used, I could free > them up. > I've been copying the data and tossing them. I still have boxes to go thru. -- Pete
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-28 22:48 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1605282245190.28872@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #164089 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
On Sat, 28 May 2016, Peter Flass wrote: > Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: >> On Fri, 27 May 2016, Stephen Wolstenholme wrote: >> >>> On 27 May 2016 13:08:59 GMT, RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2016-05-26, Dario Niedermann <dnied@tiscali.it> wrote: >>>>> From the "Not-broken:don't-fix" dept.: >>>>> >>>>> Ķ Department of Defence systems [...] "runs on an IBM Series-1 Computer >>>>> Ķ - a 1970s computing system - and uses eight-inch floppy disks". >>>>> Ķ >>>>> Ķ "This system remains in use because, in short, it still works," >>>>> Ķ Pentagon spokeswoman [...] told the AFP news agency. >>>>> Ķ >>>>> Ķ "[...] floppy drives are scheduled to be replaced with secure >>>>> Ķ digital devices by the end of 2017." >>>>> Ķ >>>>> Ķ [...] Pentagon was planning to fully replace the system >>>>> Ķ by the end of 2020. >>>>> Ķ >>>>> Ķ [...] US treasury also needed to upgrade its systems, which it said >>>>> Ķ was using "assembly language code - [...] initially used in the 1950s >>>>> Ķ and typically tied to the hardware for which it was developed". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-36385839 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Fascinating - they must have a supplier that provides new 8" floppies as >>>> necessary; I wonder who they've found to do so, as it almost certainly >>>> requires special fabrication and manufacturing processes these days, and >>>> there are almost certainly rising costs associated with that niche >>>> processing that would affect its viability. >>>> >>>> As for custom assembly code running on dedicated hardware, I'd be the last >>>> guy on earth to recommend replacing it. It works, so why replace it? Train >>>> somebody to understand the code, and be done with it. >>> >>> They probably have a stock of 8" floppy disks that can be used and >>> reused as needed. I chucked a box full in the bin when I moved house 3 >>> years ago. One day floppy discs will become valuable antiques! >>> Someone, somewhere will have a few thousand for sale if the price is >>> right. >>> >> The only 8" floppies I've seen up close was the box I found behind a >> church after their rummage sale was over. Made me regret not going to >> that sale, I wonder if a computer that went with those floppies was >> for sale. So I did bring that box home, a novelty since I have no drives >> for 8" floppies. >> >> People are still finding new old stock vacuum tubes, so I can imagine >> there being lots of stock of old floppies still available. There probably >> are places that search for them, buying them up when available, to keep >> their stock ready. A diminishing demand, but for those who need them, the >> money is probably there. >> >> I can't quite imagine 5.25" floppies becoming collectible antiques. There >> were so many made, I have a ton of them (used), and I'm not the only one. >> >> If I actually went back and copied the 5.25" floppies I used, I could free >> them up. >> > > I've been copying the data and tossing them. I still have boxes to go > thru. > These aren't "IBM compatible" or I would have copied them some time back. These are from my Radio Shack Color Computer, starting in 1984. To compund the problem, the original controller ROM had a different format, when the CoCo III came out the ROM was no longer compatible, so I had to replace it. So I have to dig out my original CoCo, change the ROM (it was actually an eprom, so maybe it's been erased, provided I can find it), then get them off there somehow, then change the ROM and copy the later floppies. And that's before any issues of how the word processors saved the files. So something to keep putting off. Michael
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| From | cb@elaine.df.lth.se (Christian Brunschen) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-05-29 09:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nieeb4$ebk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #164096 |
In article <alpine.LNX.2.02.1605282245190.28872@darkstar.example.org>, Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> wrote: [ ... ] >These aren't "IBM compatible" or I would have copied them some time back. >These are from my Radio Shack Color Computer, starting in 1984. To >compund the problem, the original controller ROM had a different format, >when the CoCo III came out the ROM was no longer compatible, so I had to >replace it. So I have to dig out my original CoCo, change the ROM (it was >actually an eprom, so maybe it's been erased, provided I can find it), >then get them off there somehow, then change the ROM and copy the later >floppies. <http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/faq-converting-your-disks/> might be useful? Another option if you prefer the DIY route is to read the recorded magnetic transitions on a lower level, using something like a KryoFlux <http://www.kryoflux.com/>, and then use software to reconstruct the contents such as <http://www.trs-80.com/wordpress/uncategorized/trs-80-kryoflux-disk-utilities-updated-writes-jv3-format/> . >And that's before any issues of how the word processors saved >the files. Extracting the data into disk images would allow you to run the word processor in an emulator. >So something to keep putting off. > > Michael // Christian
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