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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread

Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Last post2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 305 — 28 participants

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Contents

  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
                      Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
        Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
                                        [OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
                                    Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
                                          Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
                                            Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
                                      NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
                                            Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
                                            Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
                                              Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
                                                  Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
                                                    Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
                                                      Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
                                                          Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
                                                        Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
                                                      Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
                                                        Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
                                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
                                                      Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
                                                    Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
                                                  Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
                                                Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
                                              Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
                                          Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
                                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
                                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
                                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
                                                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
                                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
                                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
                                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
                                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
                              Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
                                Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
                                  Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking  Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
                                            Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
                                            Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking  Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
                                    Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
                                      Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
                                        Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
                                          Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
                              Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
                                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
                        Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
                            Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
                Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
                      Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
                        Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
                          Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
                    Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
                  Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
          Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
            Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
              Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000

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#236732 — Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
SubjectRe: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<4vJIS.76786$i43.30126@fx21.iad>
In reply to#236717
On 2026-11-10, Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> wrote:

> c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
>
>>    Ok ... so 'mainframes' as you saw them were more
>>    'directors' for distributed processing rather
>>    than THE processor.
>
> No. The operating system and application software ran on the mainframe
> CPU. But - as described above - a key design aspect of mainframes back
> then was that I/O was not done by the CPU (like it was done on home
> computers were all I/O was entirely handled by the CPU), but fully off-
> loaded to peripherials that were essentially limited computers of their
> own:
>  - CPU tells I/O interface (channel): "Do this I/O"
>  - CPU goes back to computing, channel does some I/O heavy lifting
>  - channel has completed I/O and sends an "Hey, I'm done" interrupt
>    to the CPU

Some minis offered an option for peripherals to have at least
some of this kind of smarts.  It was called "DMA" (direct memory
access), since the peripherals directly accessed memory rather
than having to pass data through the CPU.  It was one of those
gee-whiz things that you might want if you could justify the cost.

In the mainframe world, you never heard the term "DMA".
It was taken for granted.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#236714 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromThomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>
Date2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cufut$1ud0f$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236684
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb:

>    Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>    mainframes and minis.

I have a somewhat personal definition of a mainframe, which I also
includes the classical ones.

A mainframe is a computer that

- is very expensive
- takes large resources to run (a computer center)
- has very good performance in at least one field
- is not a cluster, massively parallel etc

As computers have evolved, the field of performance has shifted.
The 704 and the Cray-1 both had high computing performance for
their day, but low reliability.  The 360/30 was slow, but had
good I/O capabilities.

Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but
they have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a
bullet through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you
don't hit the Recovery Unit), good I/O and lots of sub-processors
to lighten the load on the CPU.

I read that, when minis came along, their first defining
characteristic was that they didn't need computer center resources
and fit in a single room.

-- 
This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence,
artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity,
artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.

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#236715 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cuh1m$1ugqa$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236714
On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:

> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
> the Recovery Unit) ...

Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
take it out.

The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
foundation software they use is available to you, too
<https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.

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#236716 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromAlexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de>
Date2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<slrn11f5q78.2l8ql.als@mordor.angband.thangorodrim.de>
In reply to#236715
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>
> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
> take it out.
>
> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
> foundation software they use is available to you, too
><https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.

Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
nature, fine.

Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
 - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
   for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
   rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
   you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
   failure every half hour)
 - deal with it
 - run a software stack that is highly distributed and highly redundant,
   e.g. do not just store one or two copies of data, store 4 copies
   of the data plus two copies of the recovery checksums so you still
   recover the data after losing some pieces
 - you will end up with impressive complexity because building a reliable
   system on top of unreliable components is not easy
 - it helps a lot if your workloads can tolerate small to tiny amounts
   of failure (e.g. loading a web page times out, uploading a file fails)
   - but reliable operations (such as a planet scale consistent database)
     are doable, they just need more work and smarts
 - one key aspect: well designed highly distributed system scale very
   well, a scale-up factor of 10 without any system changes aside from
   adding more hardware falls under "baseline capability" and much higher
   scale-ups are the norm

Kind regards,
           Alex.
-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."                                      -- Thomas A. Edison

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#236724 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromPeter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>
Date2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cva7o$27ikm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236716
On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>
>>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>>
>> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
>> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
>> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
>> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
>> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
>> take it out.
>>
>> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
>> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
>> foundation software they use is available to you, too
>> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
> 
> Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
> machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
> cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
> small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
> nature, fine.
> 
> Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
> are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
>   - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
>     for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
>     rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
>     you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
>     failure every half hour)

Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on 
rollerblades to swap out failing components?

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#236728 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<8BGIS.9173$S23.4717@fx04.iad>
In reply to#236724
Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> writes:
>On 11/10/26 02:50, Alexander Schreiber wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>>>
>>>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>>>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>>>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>>>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>>>
>>> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
>>> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
>>> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
>>> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
>>> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
>>> take it out.
>>>
>>> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
>>> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
>>> foundation software they use is available to you, too
>>> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.
>> 
>> Not exactly the same. The mainframe design philosophy includes "The
>> machine MUST NOT fail", for which one pays in complexity and system
>> cost. As long as your workload fits on that single machine (or a
>> small cluster (Parallel Sysplex)) and is of the "MUST NOT fail"
>> nature, fine.
>> 
>> Highly distributed systems like those run and offered by the hyperscalers
>> are built on an entirely different design philosophy:
>>   - _everything_ fails all the time (law of big numbers: take the MTBF
>>     for a compute component, run a lot of them and you've got a steady
>>     rain of failures, e.g. say you've got an MTBF of 1 million hours and
>>     you run 2 million of these devices, then on average you'll have a
>>     failure every half hour)
>
>Didn't I read somewhere that techs in large datacenters get around on 
>rollerblades to swap out failing components?
>

The Minneapolis Fed Reserve operators were reputed to have worn
roller skates when sorting checks (the sorters, with full complement
of pockets, were quite long).

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#236718 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cuskk$221o8$5@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236715
[ Removing the shell group that, at least by now, is not relevant
  anymore. Not sure where to set Followup-To, though... maybe
  alt.unix.geeks? ]

On 2026-11-10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Nov 2026 07:09:17 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig wrote:
>
>> Today's mainframes can no longer compete on compute power, but they
>> have extremely high reliability (you can literally fire a bullet
>> through a CPU, and things will migrate smoothly - if you don't hit
>> the Recovery Unit) ...
>
> Cloud providers like Amazon, Google, Microsoft etc offer much higher
> reliability through massive parallelism, based on cheap, yet highly
> redundant hardware running a Free Software stack that is not priced
> per CPU. That is much more cost-effective and any equivalent number of
> mainframes. And there is no “Recovery Unit” that you can shoot at to
> take it out.

The description by Thomas does make it look mainframes are capable of
much more fine-grained fail-safe operation.

There has to be *something* coordinating "recovery" to achieve a similar
level of fail-safe operation with the stack you describe. Entirely
possible, but unless you consider fail-safe "this machine has failed,
here's another one" with no recovery of what was being done, it's
likely not really comparable?

> The nice thing is, you can run the same sort of “enterprise-class”
> setup that the big folks operate in your own homelab, because all the
> foundation software they use is available to you, too
> <https://docs.xcp-ng.org/vms/vm-migration/>.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#236727 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<czGIS.9172$S23.1000@fx04.iad>
In reply to#236714
Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> writes:
>c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> schrieb:
>
>>    Noted in this group though - I/O arch diffs between
>>    mainframes and minis.
>
>I have a somewhat personal definition of a mainframe, which I also
>includes the classical ones.
>
>A mainframe is a computer that
>
>- is very expensive
>- takes large resources to run (a computer center)
>- has very good performance in at least one field
>- is not a cluster, massively parallel etc

Some mainframes were clustered.  Burroughs, for example,
could share storage between up to four independent hosts;
with shared access to files (with hardware record lockout
for shared updates).

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#236735 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromCharlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>
Date2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<6vJIS.76789$i43.3258@fx21.iad>
In reply to#236714
On 2026-11-10, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:

> I read that, when minis came along, their first defining
> characteristic was that they didn't need computer center resources
> and fit in a single room.

And you could plug them into a wall socket.

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  In this world there are
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  two kinds of people:
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  1. Those who can extrapolate
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  from incomplete data.

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#236686 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11crj08$ur2d$4@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236682
On Sun, 8 Nov 2026 20:33:45 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> Mainframes typically achieve an uptime percentage between 99.999%
> (five nines) and 99.9999999% (nine nines)

The hyperscalers probably manage that well, if not better.

There is an article from 1986 on Bitsavers which describes having to
reboot an IBM mainframe to turn daylight saving on and off.

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#236687 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromNuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cs5lb$148ja$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236686
On 2026-11-09, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> On Sun, 8 Nov 2026 20:33:45 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
>
>> Mainframes typically achieve an uptime percentage between 99.999%
>> (five nines) and 99.9999999% (nine nines)
>
> The hyperscalers probably manage that well, if not better.
>
> There is an article from 1986 on Bitsavers which describes having to
> reboot an IBM mainframe to turn daylight saving on and off.

*That* sounds like complicating a problem that would be made simpler by
not using the local time, or at least DST-adjusted local time.

What did they do when the clock moved backwards? Stop operations for one
hour? Or eventual clashes would be acceptable? Separate, incrementing
unique IDs?

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#236688 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<11cs9k5$15kqa$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236682
On 09/11/2026 03:33, Peter Flass wrote:
> Mainframes typically achieve an uptime percentage between 99.999% (five 
> nines) and 99.9999999% (nine nines)

Correcting Lawrence won't change a thing.
TalkingBollocks™ is a way of life for some people.

Look at yer president....
-- 
Civilization exists by geological consent, subject to change without notice.
  – Will Durant

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#236694 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<b5mIS.3248$Kg3.334@fx41.iad>
In reply to#236676
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>On Sun, 8 Nov 2026 13:45:03 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote:
>
>> On 11/8/2026 13:31, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>> There was a paper on how Google did it, published 10 or 20 years
>>> ago. At that point, they had a total complement of about 460,000
>>> x86 servers. They would buy the cheapest component they could for
>>> every component but one: the power supply.
>>>
>>> With that kind of scale, who cares if 100 or 1000 machines are
>>> broken at any moment? The users certainly won’t notice.
>>
>> The parallelism of a Google is a very different beast from the
>> robust parallelism of a banking mainframe.
>
>Mainframes have never been that “robust”

Sure they have.   Burroughs had clustered systems by 1968,
with shared storage and shared peripherals.


. You’ve mentioned elsewhere
>learning about Stratus and Tandem, who took robustness to a new level
>back in the 1980s, beyond anything the mainframe world could match.

Sure, pull the other one.   Several of my former Burroughs colleagues
worked at Tandem, and we at Burroughs/Unisys built systems designed with
fault tolerance as a key goal (e.g. OPUS, the design of which started
in 1989).

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#236677 — Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)

FromJohann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid>
Date2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
SubjectRe: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times)
Message-ID<nu9IS.36664$y0l2.8946@fx04.ams4>
In reply to#236671
On 11/9/2026 5:31 AM, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2026 05:59:55 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote:
> 
>> ... from which I learned that Stratus and Tandem both had figured
>> out how to do rolling upgrades in a non-stop environment; I had
>> thought that was an IBM mainframe invention.
> 
> The IBM mega-marketing machine strikes again.
> 
> Or past tense, really; IBM no longer has that power. Microsoft
> inherited that mantle, but it, too, is losing its grip.
> 
>> Many techies despise System/Z as an overpriced dinosaur with an
>> obsolete architechture. But I wonder if it is any less expensive to
>> dip the Intel processors in that magic sauce. I bet IBM has better
>> scale to their builds.
> 
> There was a paper on how Google did it, published 10 or 20 years ago.
> At that point, they had a total complement of about 460,000 x86
> servers. They would buy the cheapest component they could for every
> component but one: the power supply.
> 
> With that kind of scale, who cares if 100 or 1000 machines are broken
> at any moment? The users certainly won’t notice.
> 
> Mainframes stopped being relevant back in the 1980s; every further
> development since then has just been driven by customer inertia.

Can't we say the same thing about x86?  Isn't the major factor of us
still having x86 in our homes the fact that we want to run old games?

It's not like we care if our spreadsheets are running on x86, ARM, or
even a SPIM compatible core.

I'm dropping Linux, and Unix shells; neither are habitually used to
run games.


Best wishes, and happy gaming!
-- 
Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/
I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com
https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:;
Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social

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#236669 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<87o6bzp41t.fsf@localhost>
In reply to#236662
Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> writes:
> Latest public benchmark I've found is 2010 z196 "Peak I/O" getting 2M
> IOPS using 104 FICON (20K IOPS/FICON). About the same time a native FCS
> is announced for E5-2600 server blades getting over million IOPS (two
> such FCS higher throughput than 104 FICON running over FCS). Note IBM
> docs has SAPs (system assist processors that do actual I/O) CPU be kept
> to 70% ... or 1.5M IOPS ... also no CKD DASD have been made for decades
> (just simulated with industry standard fixed-block devices).

2010:
Max configured z196, $30M, 80core, 50BIPS.
Intel E5-2600, 16cores, 500BIPS

IBM base list price for E5-2600 server blade was $1815

2010 Note large cloud operations with multiple megadatacenters around
the world with half million or more server blades with enormous
automation and able to run megadatacenter with 70-80 staff and
assembled their own server blades at 1/3rd the cost of brand
name vendors.

There was then industry articles that server chip makers were shipping
half their products directly to megadatacenters. Shortly later, IBM
sells off its server blade business.

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#236672 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
Date2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cqpot$nfgo$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236669
On Sun, 08 Nov 2026 08:32:30 -1000, Lynn Wheeler wrote:

> There was then industry articles that server chip makers were
> shipping half their products directly to megadatacenters. Shortly
> later, IBM sells off its server blade business.

Which kind of begs the question, doesn’t it: who bought it, and why?

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#236674 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromLynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<87mrrjaszb.fsf@localhost>
In reply to#236672
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> Which kind of begs the question, doesn’t it: who bought it, and why?

IBM sold server blades to save company that they prevsiouly sold its PC
business to.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/ibm-sells-its-x86-server-business-to-lenovo-for-2-3-billion/
(Jan2014) IBM sells its x86 server business to Lenovo for $2.3 billion
An expected deal to sell off its Intel-based servers to the Chinese
electronics company has arrived, reflecting the shifting realities of
the market for powerful networked machines.

--
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#236681 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromc186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
Date2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<JpadnQ1jo9w7qWz3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#236672
On 11/8/26 16:32, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2026 08:32:30 -1000, Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> 
>> There was then industry articles that server chip makers were
>> shipping half their products directly to megadatacenters. Shortly
>> later, IBM sells off its server blade business.
> 
> Which kind of begs the question, doesn’t it: who bought it, and why?

   Also, how come IBM was smart enough to
   sell it ?

   Of all the Old Biggies, seems only IBM still
   survives/thrives. DEC, Burroughs, Honeywell, DG
   and others - down the toilet. All of those
   made great computers, but SOMETHING went wrong
   and they couldn't cope.

   Somebody at IBM is making smart decisions,
   diversifying properly. Develop, make money,
   then dump (with royalty agreements). No tech
   is 'forever', so exploit "the window" and
   then move on.

   Yea, yea, 'Dilbert' made fun of them - but IBM
   is STILL HERE, and still a 'blue-chip' stock.

   What of their approach might benefit YOUR biz ?

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#236478 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<wgIGS.199921$MmU5.36478@fx44.iad>
In reply to#236413
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
>According to Scott Lurndal <slp53@pacbell.net>:
>>>So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident 
>>>armchair experts
>>
>>Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
>>customers, not new customers.
>
>IBM has two markets for z mainframes, the legacy S/360/370/390 market
>and high performance linux servers which they call LinuxONE.
>
>I agree they're not likely to have new legacy customers but I'd be surprised
>that they put all that effort into LinuxONE without expecting to get new
>customers out of it.  

It's possible they might pick up one or two, but _if_ their linux
offering is still running the legacy instruction set, that
fundamentally limits the third-party software available on
LinuxOne.

I have trouble seeing it as a viable alternative to AWS or other cloud
offerings (many of which also support similar or better uptime
SLAs).  [Disclaimer - I do own some stock in IBM].

>
>They just announced that the next generation of z will have a
>partnership with ARM so the processors can run ARM64 code as well as
>the three legacy 360 modes. That tells me they're trying to get
>customers who already have the ARM code running in the cloud at AWS or
>Azure.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.  The Neoverse IP is
fairly straightforward to integrate into an existing SoC.

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#236462 — Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)

FromThe Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid>
Date2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
SubjectRe: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously)
Message-ID<11cf3o0$k0n0$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#236398
On 03/11/2026 21:37, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> So, as usual, the facts are not correctly represented by the resident
>> armchair experts
> Dig into a bit and you'll find that those are refreshes for existing
> customers, not new customers.

So what?
So is every new I-phone/Android model.

And just about every ARM chip.

THERE ARE NO NEW CUSTOMERS except for AI slop

Any more than there are for new cars.


-- 
There is nothing a fleet of dispatchable nuclear power plants cannot do 
that cannot be done worse and more expensively and with higher carbon 
emissions and more adverse environmental impact by adding intermittent 
renewable energy.

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