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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 307 — 28 participants |
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
[OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:19 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:16 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Page 14 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 12 13 [14] 15 16 Next page →
| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <mddh5hwgtbg.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #236443 |
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 06:21:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented.
> Maybe better to say "minis were character-oriented". Remember DEC had
> 18-bit and 12-bit minicomputer architectures before IBM even invented
> the term "byte".
ITYM "IBM even adopted the term 'byte' from the telecom industry." Prior to
IBM's cooptation of the term, the word "byte" referred to any grouping of
continguous bits in a signal string. This older definition is what was adopted
into the PDP-6/PDP-10 instruction set, with byte pointers that include the size
as well as the position of the starting bit within a word.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cjcgg$23539$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236513 |
On 2026-11-04 22:50, Rich Alderson wrote: > Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 06:21:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >>> Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented. > >> Maybe better to say "minis were character-oriented". Remember DEC had >> 18-bit and 12-bit minicomputer architectures before IBM even invented >> the term "byte". > > ITYM "IBM even adopted the term 'byte' from the telecom industry." [...] Sounds wrong to me. - Any reference supporting that? In the telecom industries I've regularly seen an "octet" defining an 8-bit entity - specifically to avoid the ambiguity of the term "byte" (with its formerly unspecified bit-length). On the signalling level there was also the term "Baud". And while Byte was as Baud originally defining the quantity of a "symbol" these terms describe different things; on the signal/modulation level there's no 1:1 equivalence of a "symbol". Whereas I read that the term Byte is attributed to Werner Buchholz who'd have coined the term in 1956 while working for IBM. Janis
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cjeuh$1flq$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236582 |
According to Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com>: >Whereas I read that the term Byte is attributed to Werner Buchholz >who'd have coined the term in 1956 while working for IBM. Buchholz wrote a letter in the Feb 1977 issue of BYTE magazine, repreinted in the Annals of the History of Computing Jan 1981 issue. He says the first reference he could find was a 1956 memo written during the development of STRETCH, and the first published reference was in a 1959 paper in the IRE Transactions on Electronic Computers. (The IRE was a predecessor of the IEEE.) You can find the BYTE issue here: https://archive.org/details/byte-magazine-1977-02/page/n145/mode/2up -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cin40$1tst5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236442 |
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb: > On 2026-11-04, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > >> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> >>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>>> programming them back in the 1970s. >>> >>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >>> a 'cut-down' mainframe. >> >> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes >> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. >> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its >> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. > > I agree. I've always believed that the difference between > a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of > the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly > I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were > byte-oriented. The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine. Plus, DECTape was block-oriented. -- This USENET posting was made without artificial intelligence, artificial impertinence, artificial arrogance, artificial stupidity, artificial flavorings or artificial colorants.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ciu40$22r5$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236560 |
According to Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de>: >Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb: >> I agree. I've always believed that the difference between >> a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of >> the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly >> I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were >> byte-oriented. > >The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine. Well, OK, word or byte depending on the vintage of the mini, but definitely not a record at at time. When a 360/30 read a card, it did a Start I/O instruction that pointed at a channel program that had the address and length of the buffer, then went away and did something else until it interrupted after the entire card was read in. On a PDP-8/I (I have the manual here), to read a card it first did a RCSE instruction to start a card moving, then for each column a busy wait loop or interrupt, RCSF to check and skip if the column is ready, RCRA or RCRB to read in the column, store it with a DCA instruction, then repeat for each column until an RCSD instruction said the card was done. It had to fetch each column within 1.5ms after its data was ready, but a PDP-8 was fast enough that the column routine might take 50us so there was plenty of time to do other stuft. >Plus, DECTape was block-oriented. It was but it was also pretty slow. The older TU55/TC01 DECtape used data break for I/O but for the later Omnibus PDP-8/e and 8/m had a cheaper interface that just read or wrote a word at a time in a tight loop, no data break or DMA. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <BZ6HS.316760$_pxc.203471@fx17.iad> |
| In reply to | #236560 |
On 2026-11-05, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb: > >> On 2026-11-04, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >> >>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>> >>>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>>>> programming them back in the 1970s. >>>> >>>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >>>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >>>> a 'cut-down' mainframe. >>> >>> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes >>> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. >>> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its >>> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. >> >> I agree. I've always believed that the difference between >> a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of >> the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly >> I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were >> byte-oriented. > > The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine. > > Plus, DECTape was block-oriented. You've got me there. It's amazing how slippery definitions become, even when starting from "I know one when I see one." I could say that minis tend to process a character at a time (e.g. a PDP-11 driving a VT50) while mainframes tend to process a record at a time (e.g. a 360 filling a 2260's screen in a single operation). But exceptions (e.g. your DECTape) creep in... -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cj1s1$22cb7$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236570 |
On 11/5/26 14:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-11-05, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote: > >> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb: >> >>> On 2026-11-04, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >>> >>>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> >>>>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>>>>> programming them back in the 1970s. >>>>> >>>>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >>>>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >>>>> a 'cut-down' mainframe. >>>> >>>> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes >>>> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. >>>> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its >>>> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. >>> >>> I agree. I've always believed that the difference between >>> a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of >>> the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly >>> I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were >>> byte-oriented. >> >> The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine. >> >> Plus, DECTape was block-oriented. > > You've got me there. It's amazing how slippery definitions become, > even when starting from "I know one when I see one." I could say > that minis tend to process a character at a time (e.g. a PDP-11 > driving a VT50) while mainframes tend to process a record at a > time (e.g. a 360 filling a 2260's screen in a single operation). > But exceptions (e.g. your DECTape) creep in... > I usually just felt like mini=16 bits, mainframe=32 bits or more.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cj254$22bch$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236573 |
On Thu, 5 Nov 2026 16:01:21 -0700, Peter Flass wrote: > I usually just felt like mini=16 bits, mainframe=32 bits or more. If you’d said “mini=≤18 bits”, that would have been consistent with the state of the market up to about the mid-1970s. And then the 32-bit “superminis” appeared ...
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cjf9r$1flq$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236573 |
According to Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>: >>> The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine. >>> >>> Plus, DECTape was block-oriented. >> >> You've got me there. It's amazing how slippery definitions become, >> even when starting from "I know one when I see one." I could say >> that minis tend to process a character at a time (e.g. a PDP-11 >> driving a VT50) while mainframes tend to process a record at a >> time (e.g. a 360 filling a 2260's screen in a single operation). >> But exceptions (e.g. your DECTape) creep in... > >I usually just felt like mini=16 bits, mainframe=32 bits or more. Oh you young folks. The 12 bit PDP-8 and the 18 but PDP-1, 4, 7, 9, and 15 were defintiely minicomputers. On the other hand the Interdata 7/32 and 8/32 to which Unix was ported (twice) in the 1970s was a 32 bit supermini. Its instruction set was reminiscent of S/360 but the simple I/O made it a mini.. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ckrgl$2t3rc$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #236573 |
In alt.folklore.computers Peter Flass <Peter@iron-spring.com> wrote:
> On 11/5/26 14:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2026-11-05, Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb:
>>>
>>>> On 2026-11-04, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while
>>>>>>> programming them back in the 1970s.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as
>>>>>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as
>>>>>> a 'cut-down' mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes
>>>>> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts.
>>>>> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its
>>>>> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe.
>>>>
>>>> I agree. I've always believed that the difference between
>>>> a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of
>>>> the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly
>>>> I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were
>>>> byte-oriented.
>>>
>>> The PDP-8 was anything but byte-oriented, it was a 12-bit machine.
>>>
>>> Plus, DECTape was block-oriented.
>>
>> You've got me there. It's amazing how slippery definitions become,
>> even when starting from "I know one when I see one." I could say
>> that minis tend to process a character at a time (e.g. a PDP-11
>> driving a VT50) while mainframes tend to process a record at a
>> time (e.g. a 360 filling a 2260's screen in a single operation).
>> But exceptions (e.g. your DECTape) creep in...
>>
>
> I usually just felt like mini=16 bits, mainframe=32 bits or more.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <mddjymsgtkn.fsf@panix5.panix.com> |
| In reply to | #236440 |
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> writes:
[ snip ]
> If you look through the comp.arch archives you'll find arguments about
> whether a PDP-10 was a mainframe or a very large mini. I claim it was a mini
> because its I/O was similar to DEC's other minis, including a hack
> reminiscent of three-cycle data break. Others say it was a mainframe because
> it was marketed that way.
Mainframe computers did I/O the same way before the channel notion came along.
Look, for example, at the IBM 1400 and 7xx/7xxx series.
> I will admit that the later KL with a PDP-11 front end and MASSBUS disk I/O
> was a lot more like a mainframe than the original KA-10.
The PDP-6 was marketed as a mainframe in 1964, announced 3 weeks before the
System/360 and delivered more than a year before the IBM system.
Channels do not make a mainframe, nor does direct I/O control make a mini.
--
Rich Alderson news@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cl2sf$2tk8o$1@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #236440 |
In alt.folklore.computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>:
>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while
>>> programming them back in the 1970s.
>>
>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as
>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as
>> a 'cut-down' mainframe.
>
> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes
> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts.
> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its
> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe.
Actually, 360/30 nicely shows that there is not much technical
difference. Hardware of 360/30 has 60 bit instructions
but otherwise several characteristics of a mini: 8 bit data
word and fast interrupts. Like later micros/minis have sizable
ROM, 4032 words of 60 bits each (so of order of 30 kB).
Software (microprogram) both implements 360 instructions and
chanels.
So 360/30 at hardware level does not look like your image of
mainframe. In fact "mini" with hardware DMA chanels is closer.
You may think that fancy chanel istructions make a difference,
but they may be implemented in software as long as interrupts
are fast enough (base 360/30 also implements actual data
transfer in software).
Also 360/44 may cause trouble. From I/O point of view it
is more mainframish than 360/30. But it lacks decimal
instructions and IIUC was intended to compete with bigger
minis from other manufacturers.
Note that from user point of view it does not matter if I/O
is done via START IO instruction or via operating system
call. In OS it does not make much difference how hardware
interface works, what matters is how much CPU overhead is
needed. And CPU work depends on specific device, if system
has a bus allowing multiple bus masters, then only economic
sense limits how fancy bus masters are in use.
Already in seventies there was tendecy to prefer system calls
over "hardware" interface, so distinction based on official
chanel interface or lack of it is really preference for
obsolete designs. I guess it corresponds well with modern
use of word "mainframes": mainframes now are systems that are
quite compatible with historic systems, even if acutal
hardware does not differ much from other system (like in
case of IBM) or is emulated on stock hardware (Unisys case).
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cm9lu$1gj1$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236608 |
According to Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org>: >In alt.folklore.computers John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: >> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>>> programming them back in the 1970s. >>> >>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >>> a 'cut-down' mainframe. >> >> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes >> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. >> A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its >> I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. > >Actually, 360/30 nicely shows that there is not much technical >difference. Hardware of 360/30 has 60 bit instructions >but otherwise several characteristics of a mini: 8 bit data >word and fast interrupts. .... Sure, at the microcode level it was a small computer. But none of that was visible to progrmmers. They saw the 360 instruction set and channel I/O. >Also 360/44 may cause trouble. From I/O point of view it >is more mainframish than 360/30. But it lacks decimal >instructions and IIUC was intended to compete with bigger >minis from other manufacturers. The 360/44 was intended for realtime process control. It had a priority interrupt and a fast word at a time I/O feature. As I said in another message, I don't think they sold very many of them. The 1800, a sixteen bit mini that was a souped up 1130, was more widely used for realtime work. On the other hand, on the 360/30 and 360/40 the decimal instructions were an optional feature, although I would be surprised if anyone got a /30 or /40 without it. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cnclc$3gavo$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236632 |
On 11/6/26 21:33, John Levine wrote: > > The 360/44 was intended for realtime process control. It had > a priority interrupt and a fast word at a time I/O feature. As > I said in another message, I don't think they sold very many of them. > The 1800, a sixteen bit mini that was a souped up 1130, was more > widely used for realtime work. > Actually I think it was the other way - the 1130 was a stripped-down 1800.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cnur7$2lcr$1@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236641 |
According to Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>: >> I said in another message, I don't think they sold very many of them. >> The 1800, a sixteen bit mini that was a souped up 1130, was more >> widely used for realtime work. > >Actually I think it was the other way - the 1130 was a stripped-down 1800. Pugh et al say the 1130 "served as a starting point" for the 1800 designers who made the 1800 faster, e.g., hardware index registers, and sturdier. The 1800 was announced a few months earlier than the 1130 but it sounds like they were largely designed at the same time. Pugh says several thousand 1800s were installed, and Wikipedia estimates 10,000 1130s, so they were both quite popular for 1960s computers. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <XWmGS.36643$8SW5.6652@fx40.iad> |
| In reply to | #236347 |
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >> took it for granted. > >The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. True for IBM systems. Burroughs systems had/have intelligent I/O controllers to offload I/O handling from both the CPUs and the I/O channels. > >The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. No, as a former mainframe designer, there was no horror involved. Our customers preferred to offload such workloads to dedicated front-end controllers (in our case, one of which was built around an HP-2000). Recalling at the time that interactive used was typically form-based (e.g. airline reservation systems, bank teller terminals, etc) and the block mode terminals of the day typically transferred the contents of the screen (or the form fields on the screen) in a single transmission.
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ce3i6$85p2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236379 |
On 2026-11-03 16:18, Scott Lurndal wrote: > [...] > > Recalling at the time that interactive used was typically form-based > (e.g. airline reservation systems, bank teller terminals, etc) and > the block mode terminals of the day typically transferred the contents > of the screen (or the form fields on the screen) in a single transmission. Yes. And it's noteworthy that we (again, or still) have a similar way of processing with web-based systems and their HTML forms today. Some unpleasant deviation is that nowadays some higher-level functionality gets externalized to the (now much more powerful) clients. Janis
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <NJSdnXB0eP3eyHT3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236345 |
On 11/2/26 21:42, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-11-02, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm also a bit astonished about your mention of using mainframes for >> efficient I/O. Networking clusters appear to me to be much better able >> than a single mainframe instance. The older mainframe architectures we >> used also had a lot of peripheral processors to specifically handle >> the I/O. > > True, but back in 1970 there wasn't a lot of networking happening, > largely because people hadn't really figured it out yet. Mainframe > I/O capacity was prodigious at the time - early minis could hardly > manage the megabyte-per-second speeds that mainframes dealt with > routinely. Consider that while the mini people were making a big > thing of DMA, the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - > mainframers just took it for granted. OLD mainframes were, well, OLD. Modern versions have MANY I/O/net ports. E-Commerce is assumed. 10k user connections at once, no problems. Things HAVE moved on since 1961 after all ... The age of the "mainframe" may be coming to an end alas. 'Cluster'/AI solutions are going to replace them for most uses. However science/govt still have uses for big ultra-powerful boxes for awhile anyway. SOME advantage in keeping access 'local' too - as opposed to spread all over the highly-vulnerable net. Oh well, maybe I can buy one of those big black IBM units for really cheap in a few years ? CANDY !!!
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| From | Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ce4h1$85p3$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236349 |
On 2026-11-03 04:29, c186282 wrote: > [...] > The age of the "mainframe" may be coming to an > end alas. 'Cluster'/AI solutions are going to > replace them for most uses. However science/govt > still have uses for big ultra-powerful boxes > for awhile anyway. In practice I see no evidence for that here. And why would it for "science" be better to have a mainframe? My children actually work "in science" where extremely demanding complex (hydrodynamic) simulation models are done; all done on such high-performance clusters. And this appears to be nowadays quite common as observable. > SOME advantage in keeping > access 'local' too - as opposed to spread all > over the highly-vulnerable net. There had always been non-local access, even back in the mainframe days. There's a more general problem here; whether a single "box" or a "cluster", if it's connected to the Net it has to be solidified. Janis > [...]
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <-g6dnRSqeanIOHf3nZ2dnZfqnPidnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236424 |
On 11/3/26 21:16, Janis Papanagnou wrote: > On 2026-11-03 04:29, c186282 wrote: >> [...] >> The age of the "mainframe" may be coming to an >> end alas. 'Cluster'/AI solutions are going to >> replace them for most uses. However science/govt >> still have uses for big ultra-powerful boxes >> for awhile anyway. > > In practice I see no evidence for that here. And why > would it for "science" be better to have a mainframe? Um ... read the lit. A huge amount of science is still done by 'super-computers'/mainframes. For 'defense' shit, *a* mainframe is still far more secure than alt solutions. However, the distributed 'AI' shit WILL replace that for the most part in the next decade. In some respects NOT the very best idea alas ..... > My children actually work "in science" where extremely > demanding complex (hydrodynamic) simulation models are > done; all done on such high-performance clusters. And > this appears to be nowadays quite common as observable. Umm ... your KIDS are into hydrodynamics ? Are they 'kids' anymore ? >> SOME advantage in keeping >> access 'local' too - as opposed to spread all >> over the highly-vulnerable net. > > There had always been non-local access, even back in > the mainframe days. Yep - happened. However it's easier to guard/armor ONE mainframe than a vast network. > There's a more general problem here; whether a single > "box" or a "cluster", if it's connected to the Net it > has to be solidified. DOES require a lot of 'solidification' - esp now. Otherwise you're just working for your worst enemies.
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