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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #219533 > unrolled thread

Re: Who Knew ?

Started byAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
First post2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
Last post2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
Articles 20 on this page of 156 — 29 participants

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  Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 13:52 -0400
    Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-01 21:40 +0000
      Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-01 19:27 -0400
        Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-02 05:19 +0000
    Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-01 17:38 -0700
    Re: Who Knew ? Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> - 2021-11-02 00:21 -0400
      Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 19:09 +0000
    Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-02 00:11 -0400
      Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-02 06:17 +0000
        Re: Who Knew ? Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com> - 2021-11-02 10:16 +0000
        Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 00:27 -0400
          Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 07:26 +0000
            Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-03 19:58 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 21:34 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 09:51 -0700
                    Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:37 -0400
                      Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:13 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:22 -0500
                      Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:22 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 12:05 -0500
                        Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 08:20 -1000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:02 -0700
                    Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:26 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:25 -0500
                      Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 19:10 -0400
                        Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 21:43 -0400
                            Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:53 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:38 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:30 -0400
                            Re: Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-05 18:23 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:37 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? Churchillian version John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-05 20:02 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:14 -0400
                        Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:26 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:47 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:17 -0400
                              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 21:50 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-06 19:07 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 11:31 +0000
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 15:14 +0000
                                    Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-06 16:45 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                    Re: Who Knew ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-11-05 22:43 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:05 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 20:13 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
                      Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 11:40 +0000
                        Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-05 14:09 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:53 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 17:40 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:18 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 20:04 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-05 23:52 +0000
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-06 05:13 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:16 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-n7j-this> - 2021-11-04 07:17 -0700
                Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:47 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 20:34 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 23:27 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-m46-this> - 2021-11-05 07:08 -0800
                    Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-07 15:43 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 16:17 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-04 17:19 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 22:18 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-11-04 19:21 -0300
                    Re: Who Knew ? Leonard Blaisdell <leoblaisdell@sbcglobal.net> - 2021-11-05 05:46 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2021-11-05 04:01 -0300
                    Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:27 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
                    Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:29 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-04 15:12 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-04 16:11 -0700
            Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-03 21:02 -0400
              Re: Who Knew ? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2021-11-04 00:01 -0500
                Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:09 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:49 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:11 -0700
                  Re: Who Knew ? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2021-11-04 10:16 -0700
                  Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-04 17:31 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-04 13:04 -0500
                      Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:58 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:47 -1000
                      Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 15:07 +0000
                      Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                        Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 14:42 -0500
                    Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-04 17:53 -1000
                      Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 13:33 -0400
                      Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:28 -0700
                        Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-05 10:06 -1000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Robert Swindells <rjs@fdy2.co.uk> - 2021-11-06 15:38 +0000
                        Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 17:39 -0400
                          Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                            Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-05 19:33 -0400
                              Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 12:17 -0500
                                Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 14:45 -0400
                                  Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 15:28 -0500
                                    Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-06 18:52 -0400
                                      Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:54 -0600
                                        Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:07 -0500
                            Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-06 08:26 -1000
                        Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:05 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700
                    Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 12:04 -0700
                  Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 18:32 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-06 19:25 -0500
                    Re: Who Knew ? gareth evans <headstone255@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-07 11:20 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 08:55 -0600
                      Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-07 10:15 -0500
                      Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-07 23:44 -0600
                        Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 15:39 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2021-11-08 17:06 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? lawrenabae@abaluon.abaom (Lawrence Statton (NK1G)) - 2021-11-09 19:06 -0600
                        Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 09:51 -0600
                        Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-08 10:52 -0700
                          Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-08 19:14 +0000
                            Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-08 12:09 -1000
                              Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:38 -0600
                              Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-09 15:30 +0000
                                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 14:57 -0600
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-11 15:03 +0000
                              Re: Who Knew ? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2021-11-11 17:02 -1000
                            Re: Alternate Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-08 22:22 +0000
                          Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 18:07 -0500
                            Re: military options, was Who Knew ? John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2021-11-09 01:58 +0000
                              Re: military options, was Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-08 23:17 -0500
                                Re: military options, was Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-09 10:02 -0500
                              Re: military options, was Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:51 -0600
                          Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-08 22:35 -0600
                            Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-09 09:09 -0600
                          Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de> - 2021-11-14 18:45 +0100
                            Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 12:39 -0600
                              Re: Who Knew ? 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> - 2021-11-15 00:43 -0600
                                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-16 08:58 -0600
                              Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-16 16:57 -0500
                                Re: Who Knew ? D.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com> - 2021-11-17 10:54 -0600
                                  Re: Who Knew ? Andreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net> - 2021-11-17 14:16 -0500
                            Re: Who Knew ? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2021-11-14 14:32 -0500
              Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-04 05:01 +0000
                Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-04 13:48 +0000
                  Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-04 15:46 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2021-11-04 15:26 -0400
                Re: Who Knew ? 1p166 <z24ba6.net> - 2021-11-04 23:51 -0400
                  Re: Who Knew ? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2021-11-05 07:37 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2021-11-05 08:54 +0000
                    Re: Who Knew ? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-11-05 13:49 +0000
              Re: Who Knew ? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2021-11-04 11:08 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2021-11-03 17:18 +0000
        Re: Who Knew ? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2021-11-05 22:17 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> - 2021-11-05 22:46 +0000
          Re: Who Knew ? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2021-11-05 15:55 -0700

Page 7 of 8 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8  Next page →


#219691

FromMaus <Greymaus@mail.com>
Date2021-11-08 19:14 +0000
Message-ID<slrnsoito1.60t.Greymaus@dmaus.org>
In reply to#219690
On 2021-11-08, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 8:55 AM, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:25:24 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
>>> wrote:
>
> If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
> fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
> thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
> things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
> different outcome. 
>


Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
a matter of time.

Thinking today, there was a lot of very nasty things happening in
Manchuria before the Russian Invasion and after it, which is not really
known in The west.

I have been told that is is noticed that Japanese tourists do not leave
litter behind them, wheere Chinese tourists do, I remember in a Muslim
country the tourist bus stopped and people got off to see something, and
one discarded a wrapper, A flock of sheep saw it and pounced.

-- 
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

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#219692

FromAnne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2021-11-08 12:09 -1000
Message-ID<87ee7qti3f.fsf@localhost>
In reply to#219691
Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> writes:
> Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
> Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
> a matter of time.
>
> Thinking today, there was a lot of very nasty things happening in
> Manchuria before the Russian Invasion and after it, which is not really
> known in The west.

Roosevelt kept telling the Pacific commanders (asking for more
resources) that Germany could win the war w/o Japan, but Japan couldn't
win the war w/o Germany ... and so Germany had to be 1st priority
... 3/4s of German military were fighting Soviets and D-DAY was strictly
side show for Germany.

Sand and Steel
https://www.amazon.com/Sand-Steel-Invasion-Liberation-France-ebook/dp/B07PPVG8HG/
pg19/loc992-98: However, OB West's remaining twenty-three Bodenstandige
(static position) divisions were either immobile or reserve infantry
formations, with low Kampfwert (combat effectiveness) ratings. They were
assessed as incapable of taking on offensive missions, and suitable only
for limited defence. For the latter's transportation needs, in
Rundstedt's domain there were 115,000 military horses on strength, a
stark reminder of how reliant on these creatures the German armed forces
were in 1944 - by contrast, the Allies would bring with them not a
single equine. 3 A year earlier, roughly twenty-five per cent of
officers stationed in France had fought in Russia; by 1944, this figure
had almost doubled to sixty per cent. This did not necessarily reflect a
reinforcement of the west, but a higher proportion of wounded and
convalescing leaders.
pg38/loc1415-18: It still comes as a surprise to many that the German
Army in Normandy was predominantly horse-drawn. When Second Lieutenant
Bob Sheehan of the US 60th Chemical Company (an outfit responsible for
smoke weapons) breasted a rise over the dunes of Omaha on 7 June, he saw
'a mind-shattering sight that convinced me the war was as good as
won. It was a dead horse. The poor animal was still attached to the
wagon it had been pulling.
pg39/loc1421-24: We have already noted that 115,000 of them were
assigned to OB West, with exactly 33,739 on the books of the Seventh
Army on 1 March 1944, and another ten thousand arriving by 1 June. 60
These numbers came as a shock to Rommel, who, of course, had commanded
the 7th Panzer Division in 1940 and the Afrika Korps in 1941-3, neither
of which used horses.
pg47/loc1600-1604: The stature of the Nazi war machine, forged in North
Africa, Italy and on the Eastern Front, was still feared in 1944, though
demonstrably hollowed out. It also helped Berlin that the Western
Allies, particularly the 21st Army Group, were also excessively
cautious, which played to the German inclination - despite their
convoluted command - of tactical speed of reaction. Finally, it also
suited many Allied commanders after the war to talk up the prowess of
their opponents, making the achievement of subduing them all the
greater.

... and part of horrific fighting on Omaha beach (from US army war
college, free PDF) ... high altitude, heavy strategic bombing almost
never hit the target (however, 2/3rds of total US WW2 spending went to
strategic bombing program)
https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/2011/pubs/the-european-campaign-its-origins-and-conduct/
loc2582-85: The bomber preparation of Omaha Beach was a total failure,
and German defenses on Omaha Beach were intact as American troops came
ashore. At Utah Beach, the bombers were a little more effective because
the IXth Bomber Command was using B-26 medium bombers. Wisely, in
preparation for supporting the invasion, maintenance crews removed
Norden bombsights from the bombers and installed the more effective
low-level altitude sights.

.... Roosevelt also felt US needed Soviets to defeat Japan
... aggreement with Stalin that Soviets would come in against Japan
after Germany was defeated (i.e. 1.5million Soviets had quickly defeated
million Japenese in Manchuria and were within 3days of invading Japanese
homeland ... compared to Okinawa where 600k US and heavy shelling had to
deal with only 76k Japanese ... and months away from any homeland
invasion).

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#219700

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-11-08 22:38 -0600
Message-ID<smctvr$1qq1$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#219692
On 11/8/21 4:09 PM, Anne & Lynn Wheeler wrote:
> Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> writes:
>> Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
>> Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
>> a matter of time.
>>
>> Thinking today, there was a lot of very nasty things happening in
>> Manchuria before the Russian Invasion and after it, which is not really
>> known in The west.
> 
> Roosevelt kept telling the Pacific commanders (asking for more
> resources) that Germany could win the war w/o Japan, but Japan couldn't
> win the war w/o Germany ... and so Germany had to be 1st priority
> ... 3/4s of German military were fighting Soviets and D-DAY was strictly
> side show for Germany.

More leftist drivel from the neo-liberal swamp.

Roosevelt was a seditious traitor and a British agent, just like the
other leftist traitors, such as Knight of the British Empire, and
eugenics czar, Sir William Gates.

-- 
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓──  ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃──  │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─  │ https://bitmessage.org │ │  open  │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─  └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

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#219708

FromMaus <Greymaus@mail.com>
Date2021-11-09 15:30 +0000
Message-ID<slrnsol510.5ro.Greymaus@dmaus.org>
In reply to#219692
On 2021-11-08, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> writes:
>> Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
>> Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
>> a matter of time.
>>
>
> .... Roosevelt also felt US needed Soviets to defeat Japan
> ... aggreement with Stalin that Soviets would come in against Japan
> after Germany was defeated (i.e. 1.5million Soviets had quickly defeated
> million Japenese in Manchuria and were within 3days of invading Japanese
> homeland ... compared to Okinawa where 600k US and heavy shelling had to
> deal with only 76k Japanese ... and months away from any homeland
> invasion).
>

re: Horses

As my time now is largely spent in my chair, watching old Western films
via UTube, I sometines wonder if there was a real oil crises, and
Western society had to revert to horsepower, what would our farming
areas look like?,, Our cities?... inches of horse**** on the main roads.

I read a German veterns story once about the attack on Moscow 1941, by
Spring most of the German horses were dead from cold and after being
eaten by German troops, and had been replaced by hardier Russian ones.

Also, in Normandy, a large part of the `German' army was actually
hilfe-noso-gewillige Eastern Europeans, released from the POW camps when
they would promise to help the Germans. 

War is a horrible businness


-- 
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

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#219710

FromD.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-09 14:57 -0600
Message-ID<uunlogdenssbhfvrmop6himvj7td94bpl3@4ax.com>
In reply to#219708
On 9 Nov 2021 15:30:40 GMT, Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> wrote:
>On 2021-11-08, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>> Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> writes:
>>> Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
>>> Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
>>> a matter of time.
>>>
>>
>> .... Roosevelt also felt US needed Soviets to defeat Japan
>> ... aggreement with Stalin that Soviets would come in against Japan
>> after Germany was defeated (i.e. 1.5million Soviets had quickly defeated
>> million Japenese in Manchuria and were within 3days of invading Japanese
>> homeland ... compared to Okinawa where 600k US and heavy shelling had to
>> deal with only 76k Japanese ... and months away from any homeland
>> invasion).
>>
>
>re: Horses
>
>As my time now is largely spent in my chair, watching old Western films
>via UTube, I sometines wonder if there was a real oil crises, and
>Western society had to revert to horsepower, what would our farming
>areas look like?,, Our cities?... inches of horse**** on the main roads.

After New York City, NY banned horses from the city as transport,
pulling trollly cars,  etc. the amount of lung diseases from horse
manure dropped significantly.

>I read a German veterns story once about the attack on Moscow 1941, by
>Spring most of the German horses were dead from cold and after being
>eaten by German troops, and had been replaced by hardier Russian ones.

I believe it was in Martin Caidin's book 'The Tigers are Burning'
where he mentioned that German and Russian horses protected from the
wind, in the same type of shelter, the Russian horses would survive
colder temperatures. The German horses froze.

>Also, in Normandy, a large part of the `German' army was actually
>hilfe-noso-gewillige Eastern Europeans, released from the POW camps when
>they would promise to help the Germans. 
>
>War is a horrible businness

Stomach battalions to. Germans with stomach ailments were formed into
groups and placed on the Atlantic Wall; however, there were German fit
units placed there as well.

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#219716

FromMaus <Greymaus@mail.com>
Date2021-11-11 15:03 +0000
Message-ID<slrnsoqc5k.a11.Greymaus@dmaus.org>
In reply to#219710
On 2021-11-09, D.J <chucktheouch@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2021 15:30:40 GMT, Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> wrote:
>>On 2021-11-08, Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
>>> Maus <Greymaus@mail.com> writes:
>>>> Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
>>>> Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
>>>> a matter of time.
>>>>
>
> I believe it was in Martin Caidin's book 'The Tigers are Burning'
> where he mentioned that German and Russian horses protected from the
> wind, in the same type of shelter, the Russian horses would survive
> colder temperatures. The German horses froze.

One could sympathise for Bavarian Horses, as in all wars, the poor
horses suffered and died  for reasons they knew not of.

>
>>Also, in Normandy, a large part of the `German' army was actually
>>hilfe-noso-gewillige Eastern Europeans, released from the POW camps when
>>they would promise to help the Germans. 
>>
>>War is a horrible businness
>
> Stomach battalions to. Germans with stomach ailments were formed into
> groups and placed on the Atlantic Wall; however, there were German fit
> units placed there as well.

There was an article in Readers Digest years ago which compared German
and French Illnesses. What would ailments be disgnosed and treated for
in both countries. ( It did not consider Alsace!) Rather like the
situation at the moment with our favorite new pandemic. As I rememeber.
liver problems were popular in France, and unknown in Germany. Maybe
it's the sausages! (Blackadder)



-- 
greymausg@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!

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#219718

FromAnne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Date2021-11-11 17:02 -1000
Message-ID<878rxuvzyi.fsf@localhost>
In reply to#219692
How Did America's Sherman Tank Win against Superior German Tanks in
World War II? Two tank philosophies, totally at odds with each
other. What were they?
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/how-did-americas-sherman-tank-win-against-superior-german-tanks-world-war-ii-185625

From Guderian's Panzer Leader
https://www.amazon.com/Panzer-Leader-Heinz-Guderian-ebook/dp/B07KTBSD1L/
loc2902-3:

Hitler then said: 'If I had known that the figures for Russian tank
strength which you gave in your book were in fact the true ones, I would
not--I believe--ever have started this war.'

loc2903-6:

He was referring to my book Achtung! Panzer!, published in 1937, in
which I had estimated Russian tank strength at that time as 10,000; both
the Chief of the Army General Staff, Beck, and the censor had disagreed
with this statement. It had cost me a lot of trouble to get that figure
printed; but I had been able to show that intelligence reports at the
time spoke of 17,000 Russian tanks and that my estimate was therefore,
if anything, a very conservative one.

loc2262-64:

At this time our yearly tank production scarcely amounted to more than
1,000 of all types. In view of our enemies' production figures this was
very small. As far back as 1933 I had visited a single Russian tank
factory which was producing 22 tanks per day of the Christie-Russki
type.

... snip ...

Tanks in the German Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanks_in_the_German_Army
First encountered on 23 June 1941,[24] the T-34 outclassed the existing
Panzer III and IV.[25] At the insistence of General Heinz Guderian, a
special Panzerkommision was dispatched to the Eastern Front to assess
the T-34.[26] Among the features of the Soviet tank considered most
significant were the sloping armor, which gave much improved shot
deflection and also increased the effective armor thickness against
penetration, the wide track, which improved mobility over soft ground,
and the 76.2 mm gun, which had good armor penetration and fired an
effective high-explosive round.

... snip ...

The british referred to Shermans as Tommy Cookers because crews were
being sent out to be slaughtered; Boyd's briefings had German's with
10:1 kill ratio (10 Shermans killed for every German tank, even inferior
to the Russians), US was planning on winning with battle of attrition;
Germans would run out of tanks and crew before the US (even at 10:1)
... although US folklore running out of crews and having to recruit
kitchen staff and cooks.
http://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/m4-sherman-vs-german-panther/ The
Sherman was at a disadvantage. Although it mounted 75mm cannon, it was
of a low-velocity type. The Sherman's designers felt that a low-velocity
gun would last longer than a high-velocity one. They failed to realize
that few Shermans would ever last long enough in combat to wear out
their barrels. Later versions would have an upgraded high-velocity gun,
but they would not reach front-line units until late November 1944, five
months after the Normandy invasion. The armor, at 81mm, was considerably
thinner than the Panther's and unable to withstand its armor-piercing
ammunition.

... snip ...

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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#219693 — Re: Alternate Who Knew ?

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2021-11-08 22:22 +0000
SubjectRe: Alternate Who Knew ?
Message-ID<smc7um$1eb3$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#219691
According to Maus  <rhunDARNtheSPAM@DARNtheSPAMkatamailDARNtheSPAM.com>:
>On 2021-11-08, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>> fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>> thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>> things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>> different outcome. 
>
>Doubt it. Once the Germans had been stopped at Moscow, and the ordinary
>Russian found out what was to happen if Germany won the war, it was only
>a matter of time. ...

We would have won, but the situation afterward could have been quite different.

The Soviet Union declared war on Japan the same week we bombed Hiroshima and
Nagasaki.  If the war had gone on longer, in all likelihood Japan would have
been divided into Soviet and US zones rather than Korea.

It's also not out of the question that we might have had a negotiated peace
that left Japan with some of their conquered territory.  I doubt we would have
let them keep the Philippines but France was in no condition to demand that
they return Vietnam nor the Netherlands to return Indonesia.
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#219694

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-08 18:07 -0500
Message-ID<3cbjogl6scen0oofgchjm9kno5t7eji3f8@4ax.com>
In reply to#219690
On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 10:52:51 -0700, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 8:55 AM, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:25:24 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 11/4/21 12:11 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> [...]
>>>> 
>>>>> Franklin Delan Roosevelt didn't make up Pearl Harbor.
>>>> 
>>>> But he did help plan and orchestrate Pearl Harbor. You obviously have no
>>>> idea how war actually worked in those days.
>>>> 
>>>> Von Clauzewitz : War is politics by other means.
>>>> Sun Tzu : The best general has defeated his enemy before the war begins.
>>>> 
>>>> What does this mean? It means the wars are planned well in advance of
>>>> any actual casus belli. Wars don't just "happen." They are not the
>>>> result of one country stepping on another country's toes. They are part
>>>> of long-term economic planning cooperation between all sides involved.
>>> 
>>> Nonsense. That sounds like a conspiracy theory.
>> 
>> Right, because we all know that politicians and military war hawks
>> _never_ conspire. They're all angels, right?
>
>If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>different outcome. 

What would have been different is the timeline and degree of
destruction, not the outcome.  "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" might have been
a B-36 with the entire city leveled.

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#219697 — Re: military options, was Who Knew ?

FromJohn Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
Date2021-11-09 01:58 +0000
SubjectRe: military options, was Who Knew ?
Message-ID<smckk1$2gg1$1@gal.iecc.com>
In reply to#219694
According to J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>>fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>>things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>>different outcome. 
>
>What would have been different is the timeline and degree of
>destruction, not the outcome.  "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" might have been
>a B-36 with the entire city leveled.

In March 1945 we *did* level the city with a two-day firebombing raid.  
It killed 100,000 people, injured an unknown but probably similar
number, and left a million homeless.

It was considerably more destructive than Hiroshima or Nagasaki
but it took 279 B-29s rather than one.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

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#219698 — Re: military options, was Who Knew ?

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-08 23:17 -0500
SubjectRe: military options, was Who Knew ?
Message-ID<62tjogd165b2h8qfn827b2bujqb8q7s9uq@4ax.com>
In reply to#219697
On Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:58:25 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
wrote:

>According to J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>>If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>>>fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>>where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>>thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>>>things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>>>different outcome. 
>>
>>What would have been different is the timeline and degree of
>>destruction, not the outcome.  "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" might have been
>>a B-36 with the entire city leveled.
>
>In March 1945 we *did* level the city with a two-day firebombing raid.  
>It killed 100,000 people, injured an unknown but probably similar
>number, and left a million homeless.
>
>It was considerably more destructive than Hiroshima or Nagasaki
>but it took 279 B-29s rather than one.

We leveled just about every city in Japan.  But not in our first raid.

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#219704 — Re: military options, was Who Knew ?

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2021-11-09 10:02 -0500
SubjectRe: military options, was Who Knew ?
Message-ID<87tuglv0cp.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#219698
On Mon, 08 Nov 2021 23:17:30 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2021 01:58:25 -0000 (UTC), John Levine <johnl@taugh.com>
> wrote:
>
>>According to J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>What would have been different is the timeline and degree of
>>>destruction, not the outcome.  "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" might have been
>>>a B-36 with the entire city leveled.
>>
>>In March 1945 we *did* level the city with a two-day firebombing raid.  
>>It killed 100,000 people, injured an unknown but probably similar
>>number, and left a million homeless.
>>
>>It was considerably more destructive than Hiroshima or Nagasaki
>>but it took 279 B-29s rather than one.
>
> We leveled just about every city in Japan.  But not in our first raid.

Same for Germany. Especially Berlin, being the capital of Nazi Germany
(still is the capital of the Federal Germany today again since October
1990). There were 363 raids on Berlin alone, leaving much of the city in
ruins.

Interestingly and often overlooked the first raid in 1940, while the
Nazis were still conquering France was done by a single French plane. Some
of the bombs were tossed out of a window by the co-pilot. Didn't cause
much damage like the first raid on Tokyo by carrier based bombers
(Doolittle Raid). Purpose was merely to show the enemy that their
respective homelands were vulnerable, and boosted the moral of the allies.
-- 
Andreas

https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/

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#219701 — Re: military options, was Who Knew ?

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-11-08 22:51 -0600
SubjectRe: military options, was Who Knew ?
Message-ID<smcup4$3ve$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#219697
On 11/8/21 7:58 PM, John Levine wrote:
> According to J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>:
>>> If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>>> fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>> thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>>> things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>>> different outcome. 
>>
>> What would have been different is the timeline and degree of
>> destruction, not the outcome.  "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" might have been
>> a B-36 with the entire city leveled.
> 
> In March 1945 we *did* level the city with a two-day firebombing raid.  
> It killed 100,000 people, injured an unknown but probably similar
> number, and left a million homeless.
> 
> It was considerably more destructive than Hiroshima or Nagasaki
> but it took 279 B-29s rather than one.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were firebombed in the same manner. There were no
nukes. That is just psychological propaganda, like the old red mercury
grift. The organs finally admitted that red mercury was a hoax. They
just haven't gotten around to telling you that nukes are also a fairy tale.

It baffles me how neo-liberals are totally oblivious of facts, except
for the ones they want to believe.

Thermonuclear weapons are a total fiction.

The war theatre of WWII was scripted by MI5 and orchestrated by MI5
agents placed in the administrations of numerous countries, including
Roosevelt, several of Hitler's cronies, and dozens of British spies in
America's intelligence apparatus.

Hitler was more loyal to the British than he was to the Germans. Explain
Dunkirk, and Hitler's written rationale for that. Had he taken all the
soldiers at Dunkirk, it would have devastated British manpower. The
whole war was a dog and pony show.

Britain engineered the holocaust. The Jews should be concerned over the
British intelligence organs as much as they are with Germany. Germany
was merely her willing henchman to do the dirty work. This is why the
British-run neo-liberal establishment never stops talking about the
holocaust. It's not because they care about Jews. It's because they care
about deflecting blame away from them for organizing the eugenics
insanity that happened in Germany. It was all started by British
eugenecists, and fed in to the heads of simple-minded Krauts, with their
half-English Fuhrer.

But you all go on, keep blowing smoke up each other's hinder parts about
the British and Washington sanctioned versions of "history" being
canonical or whatever.

FDR set up the fleet at Pearl Harbor for slaughter so he could drag
America into fighting Britian's war.

-- 
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓──  ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃──  │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─  │ https://bitmessage.org │ │  open  │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─  └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

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#219699

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-11-08 22:35 -0600
Message-ID<smctr4$1qq1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#219690
On 11/8/21 11:52 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>> On 11/7/21 8:55 AM, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:25:24 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 11/4/21 12:11 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>>> Franklin Delan Roosevelt didn't make up Pearl Harbor.
>>>>
>>>> But he did help plan and orchestrate Pearl Harbor. You obviously have no
>>>> idea how war actually worked in those days.
>>>>
>>>> Von Clauzewitz : War is politics by other means.
>>>> Sun Tzu : The best general has defeated his enemy before the war begins.
>>>>
>>>> What does this mean? It means the wars are planned well in advance of
>>>> any actual casus belli. Wars don't just "happen." They are not the
>>>> result of one country stepping on another country's toes. They are part
>>>> of long-term economic planning cooperation between all sides involved.
>>>
>>> Nonsense. That sounds like a conspiracy theory.
>>
>> Right, because we all know that politicians and military war hawks
>> _never_ conspire. They're all angels, right?
> 
> If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
> fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
> thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
> things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
> different outcome.

Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not
https://thenewamerican.com/pearl-harbor-hawaii-was-surprised-fdr-was-not/

Naval Commander Kimmel ordered the fleet out of Pearl Harbor and into
the North Pacific out of harm's way. Roosevelt ordered the fleet back to
Pearl Harbor shortly before the attack to "avoid provoking the
Japanese." Yet history and diaries show that FDR's policy was one of
constant provocation.

FDR was a Marxist sodomite, and a mass murderer who betrayed America to
get her into a war for his British handlers.

Senior Japanese Officers opposed and protested the attack on Pearl
Harbor, yet the orders from HQ were to deny their protests. Officers in
US Naval Intelligence warned FDR about impending Japanese retaliation.

The men at the top on both sides had already worked out how they were
going to orchestrate the war and divide the spoils. FDR was chiefly a
British agent, orchestrating American policy for the benefit of the British.

You believe that your country exists. In reality it's an open air prison
ruled by the same people who rule all the other open air prisons known
as countries. Do you believe that cave-dwellers with boxcutters did 911,
too?

None are so blind as those who refuse to see.

-- 
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓──  ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃──  │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─  │ https://bitmessage.org │ │  open  │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─  └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

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#219706

FromD.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-09 09:09 -0600
Message-ID<rm3logdq1mvsrv9fk9g7c15rptad91ft76@4ax.com>
In reply to#219699
On Mon, 8 Nov 2021 22:35:41 -0600, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
wrote:
>On 11/8/21 11:52 AM, Peter Flass wrote:
>> 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart> wrote:
>>> On 11/7/21 8:55 AM, D.J. wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 6 Nov 2021 19:25:24 -0500, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/4/21 12:11 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>>> Franklin Delan Roosevelt didn't make up Pearl Harbor.
>>>>>
>>>>> But he did help plan and orchestrate Pearl Harbor. You obviously have no
>>>>> idea how war actually worked in those days.
>>>>>
>>>>> Von Clauzewitz : War is politics by other means.
>>>>> Sun Tzu : The best general has defeated his enemy before the war begins.
>>>>>
>>>>> What does this mean? It means the wars are planned well in advance of
>>>>> any actual casus belli. Wars don't just "happen." They are not the
>>>>> result of one country stepping on another country's toes. They are part
>>>>> of long-term economic planning cooperation between all sides involved.
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense. That sounds like a conspiracy theory.
>>>
>>> Right, because we all know that politicians and military war hawks
>>> _never_ conspire. They're all angels, right?
>> 
>> If you’re going to set up a conspiracy you aren’t going to sink half your
>> fleet to start off. You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>> thing. 1942 was a tough year in the Pacific for the US and its allies. If
>> things had gone differently at Midway the war might have had a completely
>> different outcome.
>
>Pearl Harbor: Hawaii Was Surprised; FDR Was Not
>https://thenewamerican.com/pearl-harbor-hawaii-was-surprised-fdr-was-not/

Japan didn't name locations, they used code words. That site is full
of lies. And you fell for it.

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#219721

FromAndreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
Date2021-11-14 18:45 +0100
Message-ID<87a6i67hsq.fsf@eder.anydns.info>
In reply to#219690
On Mo 08 Nov 2021 at 10:52, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:

> You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
> thing.

It wasn't 'a couple of expendables' - it were prisoners from a
concentration camp.

'Andreas

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#219722

FromD.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-14 12:39 -0600
Message-ID<jrl2pg1a4cgc7elfokrgkgkpkttfnae4rp@4ax.com>
In reply to#219721
On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:45:09 +0100, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
wrote:
>On Mo 08 Nov 2021 at 10:52, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>> thing.
>
>It wasn't 'a couple of expendables' - it were prisoners from a
>concentration camp.

Exactly, they were dressed in Polish military uniforms. Goebbels
claimed on the radio that they had attacked a German radio station in
Germany. They were murdered, and it was made to look like they had
attacked.

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#219725

From711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
Date2021-11-15 00:43 -0600
Message-ID<smsvek$vav$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#219722
On 11/14/21 12:39 PM, D.J. wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:45:09 +0100, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
> wrote:
>> On Mo 08 Nov 2021 at 10:52, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>> thing.
>>
>> It wasn't 'a couple of expendables' - it were prisoners from a
>> concentration camp.
> 
> Exactly, they were dressed in Polish military uniforms. Goebbels
> claimed on the radio that they had attacked a German radio station in
> Germany. They were murdered, and it was made to look like they had
> attacked.

Sounds like the January 6th Capitol Hill "insurrection."

-- 
──┏━━━━┓──┏━━┓───┏━━┓──  ┌────────────────────────┐ ┌────────┐
──┗━━┓─┃──┗┓─┃───┗┓─┃──  │ Spooky Mart [chan] 711 │ │ always │
─────┃─┃──┏┛─┗┓──┏┛─┗┓─  │ https://bitmessage.org │ │  open  │
─────┗━┛──┗━━━┛──┗━━━┛─  └────────────────────────┘ └────────┘

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#219728

FromD.J. <chucktheouch@gmail.com>
Date2021-11-16 08:58 -0600
Message-ID<5oh7pghfkq131863a6m91egtatb42ajomr@4ax.com>
In reply to#219725
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 00:43:23 -0600, 711 Spooky Mart <711@spooky.mart>
wrote:
>On 11/14/21 12:39 PM, D.J. wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:45:09 +0100, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
>> wrote:
>>> On Mo 08 Nov 2021 at 10:52, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>>> thing.
>>>
>>> It wasn't 'a couple of expendables' - it were prisoners from a
>>> concentration camp.
>> 
>> Exactly, they were dressed in Polish military uniforms. Goebbels
>> claimed on the radio that they had attacked a German radio station in
>> Germany. They were murdered, and it was made to look like they had
>> attacked.
>
>Sounds like the January 6th Capitol Hill "insurrection."

You misspelled treason.

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#219729

FromAndreas Kohlbach <ank@spamfence.net>
Date2021-11-16 16:57 -0500
Message-ID<87h7cbojbc.fsf@usenet.ankman.de>
In reply to#219722
On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 12:39:19 -0600, D.J. wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 18:45:09 +0100, Andreas Eder <a_eder_muc@web.de>
> wrote:
>>On Mo 08 Nov 2021 at 10:52, Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You’d stage something like the NAZIs did with Poland
>>> where you get a couple of expendables killed and then blow it up into a big
>>> thing.
>>
>>It wasn't 'a couple of expendables' - it were prisoners from a
>>concentration camp.
>
> Exactly, they were dressed in Polish military uniforms. Goebbels
> claimed on the radio that they had attacked a German radio station in
> Germany. They were murdered, and it was made to look like they had
> attacked.

The RAF also silenced a speech of Göring at some point.

<https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/world-war-iis-strangest-bombing-mission-180974470/>

One of the daring RAF operations. "Funny" that listeners on the radio
heard the roaring sound of the bomber's engines and exploding shells,
because it was a live transmission. *g*
-- 
Andreas

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