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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #236265 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 307 — 28 participants |
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Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-31 21:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 04:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-01 10:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-01 19:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:35 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-11-02 13:50 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 20:42 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-03 16:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 08:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:29 -0700
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 18:17 -0500
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2026-11-01 16:45 -0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-01 21:00 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 02:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 04:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 14:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 06:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 19:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 21:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 23:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-06 08:46 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-06 07:41 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-06 14:30 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:12 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 20:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 03:56 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:03 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-04 19:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 01:28 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-02 09:41 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:11 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:20 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 11:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:02 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 13:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:35 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 18:06 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:48 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 22:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 22:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-03 23:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 08:26 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:20 +0000
[OT] Fujitsu Horizon (was: Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Fujitsu Horizon Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-05 09:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:09 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:10 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:30 -0500
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 16:57 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 04:48 +0800
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:38 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:11 -0700
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:43 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:54 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:04 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-05 06:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-06 15:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:40 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 19:02 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-05 15:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-05 19:15 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:23 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:53 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 22:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:14 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 12:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 22:22 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 15:59 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-06 06:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-06 23:09 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:45 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:37 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 22:49 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-07 14:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-07 13:31 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-08 02:56 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Kerr-Mudd, John" <admin@127.0.0.1> - 2026-11-08 21:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-07 20:03 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-07 20:56 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 21:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-08 01:23 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:45 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 03:33 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-03 00:08 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 21:12 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:01 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:54 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:02 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:58 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-07 16:04 -1000
NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 05:59 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:11 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:31 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-08 13:45 -0800
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 12:21 -1000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 23:51 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-08 20:33 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 22:59 -0500
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-09 07:32 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-09 21:20 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-09 22:07 -0500
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:37 +0100
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> - 2026-11-10 12:22 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-10 06:31 -0800
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:14 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:35 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:29 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-10 07:55 -1000
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:19 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 12:16 -0700
Re: what's a mainframe, NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-10 07:09 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-10 07:27 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Alexander Schreiber <als@usenet.thangorodrim.de> - 2026-11-10 10:50 +0100
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-10 07:37 -0700
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:18 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-10 10:45 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-10 15:16 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-10 18:36 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-09 04:42 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 10:01 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-09 11:08 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-09 15:59 +0000
Re: NYT and Stratus (Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-09 09:38 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 08:32 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-08 21:32 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2026-11-08 11:55 -1000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-08 21:49 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:08 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:36 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 20:58 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:49 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 02:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 04:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:27 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 10:58 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:19 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-05 00:19 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 01:24 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-05 15:48 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 19:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 09:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:25 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:53 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:05 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-04 11:27 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 09:20 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:52 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:50 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-05 08:59 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:36 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:42 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:43 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 21:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:32 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-11-04 11:32 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 18:52 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-05 05:02 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-05 18:43 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-06 06:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-06 04:34 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-06 20:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Kaz Kylheku <046-301-5902@kylheku.com> - 2026-11-06 21:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 01:22 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:00 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-07 04:12 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-07 05:39 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-07 11:37 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-07 06:25 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:53 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 07:15 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-03 19:28 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-03 23:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-04 01:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> - 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:50 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-06 03:02 +0100
Re: [OT] what's a byte, was mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:44 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 19:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-05 21:57 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-05 16:01 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-05 23:06 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-06 02:50 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 15:25 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-11-04 16:44 -0500
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-06 17:30 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 04:33 +0000
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-07 07:30 -0700
Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-07 19:40 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-03 15:18 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 02:59 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-02 22:29 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 03:16 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-11-03 22:23 -0500
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanagnou+ng@hotmail.com> - 2026-11-04 19:18 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 03:17 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-04 02:07 +0000
Re: [OT] highly reliable upgradable mainframes, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:06 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 03:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-04 15:54 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-04 19:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-11-02 16:51 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 11:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-11-02 19:41 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-02 17:01 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-11-03 12:36 +0100
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-03 07:10 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-11-03 05:44 -0800
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-03 07:38 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-11-03 22:16 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-11-04 07:58 -0700
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-04 21:44 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> - 2026-11-05 17:13 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-11-03 20:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2026-11-03 21:11 +0000
Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-11-04 03:09 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:52 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-11-02 15:35 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 10:47 +0000
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> - 2026-11-02 20:16 +0800
Re: [OT] Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-11-02 13:58 +0000
Page 13 of 16 — ← Prev page 1 … 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 Next page →
| From | "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 12:50 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <nku04rFahr1U7@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #236350 |
On 2026-11-03 04:53, c186282 wrote:
> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA,
>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just
>>> took it for granted.
>>
>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous
>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of
>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff.
>
> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots
> of optimizations that only later migrated down.
>
>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which
>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke.
>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror.
>
> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible !
That is what a PC does.
--
Cheers,
Carlos E.R.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 14:31 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ccr7s$3ql8a$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236364 |
On 03/11/2026 11:50, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-11-03 04:53, c186282 wrote: >> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >>>> took it for granted. >>> >>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. >> >> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots >> of optimizations that only later migrated down. >> >>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. >> >> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible ! > > That is what a PC does. > Indeed it is Maybe CP/M did not, but IIRC DOS always did. -- There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. Mark Twain
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| From | Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 19:16 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cd8dk$rn3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236373 |
On 11/3/26 15:31, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 03/11/2026 11:50, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2026-11-03 04:53, c186282 wrote: >>> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>> >>>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >>>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >>>>> took it for granted. >>>> >>>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >>>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >>>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. >>> >>> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots >>> of optimizations that only later migrated down. >>> >>>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >>>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >>>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. >>> >>> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible ! >> >> That is what a PC does. >> > Indeed it is > > Maybe CP/M did not, but IIRC DOS always did. > *Something* has to fetch the keystroke from the UART and put it in memory. PCs do not have dedicated auxiliary processors, so the CPU has to do the job. Not a big deal, really. On occasion, I've even let the CPU take over the job of the UART. (Ten interrupts per keystroke!) Mainframe channels were computers too, and collecting keystrokes or punched card bytes was delegated to those. Jeroen Belleman
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| From | Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 07:31 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ccr8f$3qs09$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236364 |
On 11/3/26 04:50, Carlos E. R. wrote: > On 2026-11-03 04:53, c186282 wrote: >> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>> >>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >>>> took it for granted. >>> >>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. >> >> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots >> of optimizations that only later migrated down. >> >>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. >> >> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible ! > > That is what a PC does. > But a PC is, by definition, "personal", so this nonsense is not affecting anyone else.
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| From | Johann 'Myrkraverk' Oskarsson <johann@myrkraverk.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 02:13 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <%upGS.24059$y0l2.853@fx04.ams4> |
| In reply to | #236374 |
On 11/3/2026 10:31 PM, Peter Flass wrote: > On 11/3/26 04:50, Carlos E. R. wrote: >> On 2026-11-03 04:53, c186282 wrote: >>> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >>>> >>>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >>>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >>>>> took it for granted. >>>> >>>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >>>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >>>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. >>> >>> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots >>> of optimizations that only later migrated down. >>> >>>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >>>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >>>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. >>> >>> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible ! >> >> That is what a PC does. >> > > But a PC is, by definition, "personal", so this nonsense is not > affecting anyone else. And it's not nonsense when you want to minimize latency, such as in com- petitive games. I have a /gaming tower/, with -- alas empty -- PS/2 plug. And I don't know where to buy the splitter cable to connect both a mouse and a keyboard. Gamers -- at least some of them -- still rant about USB latency. -- Johann | email: invalid -> com | http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/ I'm not from the Internet, I just work there. | via Easynews.com https://bsky.app/profile/myrkraverk.bsky.social | for ( ;; ) _:; Federated at https://fed.brid.gy/bsky/myrkraverk.bsky.social
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| From | Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 05:28 -0800 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ccnim$3pihc$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236350 |
On 11/2/2026 19:53, c186282 wrote: > On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA, >>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just >>> took it for granted. >> >> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous >> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of >> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff. > > Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots > of optimizations that only later migrated down. > >> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which >> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke. >> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror. > > System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible ! > > The "minis" were pretty good all in all, had a > definite 'place'. Lots made. Had some experience > with the TI-990 minis. Super-funky hardware- > based multi-user scheme with RAM-based registers. > Hey, good at the time ! > > I guess you COULD call the PDP-11 a "mini", but > imho it didn't have quite the "feel". More like > a cut-down mainframe. Good peripheral bus though, > you could plug in all kinds of goodies. Oh, most PDP-11's were definitely minis. Consider that the address space was 16 bits, i.e. 64 KB. On the 11/45 you could set the MMU to separate instruction fetches into a separate 64KB space from the data read/writes, but I never got comfortable with that. The 11/70 could do multi-user with a larger physical memory, so it could run V6 unix (or the 16-bit BSD version). But nobody should confuse it with a mainframe. The genius of the mainframe version of transaction processing was that the queue of incoming transactions did not have too live in CPU memory ... it sat in the memory of the terminals, waiting for a poll that would bring it inside. This was in complete contrast to the mini computer terminals that were ASYNC TTY, requiring the CPU to catch the character when the UART interrupted, and the host mini would then decide whether the character should be echoed back or not. By the time of VMS, there was a new paradigm, where you could push the pre-processing out to the terminal cluster: The TTY device in the OS had mode bitmasks, specifying for each character whether it should be echoed and whether it should generate a read completion interrupt. Unix got a similar set of modes controlled with the stty command and its associated ioctl system calls, but I don't think I have ever seen these succesfully be used to put the TTY pre-processing in a remote front-end controller, like VMS could. I know a bit about this, because I have written TTY drivers for Univac EXEC-8, VMS, 4BSD. Lots of fun, and a source of pride for a young programmer. -- Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 22:00 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cdlhj$63m2$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236367 |
On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 05:28:52 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > By the time of VMS, there was a new paradigm, where you could push > the pre-processing out to the terminal cluster: The TTY device in > the OS had mode bitmasks, specifying for each character whether it > should be echoed and whether it should generate a read completion > interrupt. You realize, all this was done in *software* in the terminal driver, not in the terminal controller? So yes, the CPU was still getting an interrupt on every incoming character. > Unix got a similar set of modes controlled with the stty command and > its associated ioctl system calls, but I don't think I have ever > seen these succesfully be used to put the TTY pre-processing in a > remote front-end controller, like VMS could. Unix never had a terminal driver as advanced as VMS did, that is true.
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| From | scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 15:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <inIGS.199923$MmU5.27996@fx44.iad> |
| In reply to | #236402 |
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes: >On Tue, 3 Nov 2026 05:28:52 -0800, Lars Poulsen wrote: > >> By the time of VMS, there was a new paradigm, where you could push >> the pre-processing out to the terminal cluster: The TTY device in >> the OS had mode bitmasks, specifying for each character whether it >> should be echoed and whether it should generate a read completion >> interrupt. > >You realize, all this was done in *software* in the terminal driver, >not in the terminal controller? In my experience with VAX 11/780 installations, it was common to use a 'terminal controller' (typically a PDP-11/40) as a front-end to the VAX cluster (which allowed any terminal on campus to connect to any of the VAXen or to Wylbur). > >So yes, the CPU was still getting an interrupt on every incoming >character. > >> Unix got a similar set of modes controlled with the stty command and >> its associated ioctl system calls, but I don't think I have ever >> seen these succesfully be used to put the TTY pre-processing in a >> remote front-end controller, like VMS could. > >Unix never had a terminal driver as advanced as VMS did, that is true. IIRC, there were several solutions to this issue in the heyday of proprietary unix systems. And I'd argue with the 'as advanced as VMS' statement as well.
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| From | antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 03:29 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ce8qd$26jrq$5@paganini.bofh.team> |
| In reply to | #236367 |
In alt.folklore.computers Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
> On 11/2/2026 19:53, c186282 wrote:
>> On 11/2/26 21:49, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2026 02:42:44 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> Consider that while the mini people were making a big thing of DMA,
>>>> the term was unheard of in the mainframe world - mainframers just
>>>> took it for granted.
>>>
>>> The mainframe world had “channels”, which were practically autonomous
>>> controllers with their own ability to obey complex sequences of
>>> program instructions while the CPU was busy doing application stuff.
>>
>> Yep ! Even the old mainframes were "smart" - lots
>> of optimizations that only later migrated down.
>>
>>> The mini people were spending a lot of time building systems which
>>> could efficiently respond to a CPU interrupt on every user keystroke.
>>> Even the thought of that would have filled mainframers with horror.
>>
>> System interrupts PER-KEYSTROKE ??? Horrible !
>>
>> The "minis" were pretty good all in all, had a
>> definite 'place'. Lots made. Had some experience
>> with the TI-990 minis. Super-funky hardware-
>> based multi-user scheme with RAM-based registers.
>> Hey, good at the time !
>>
>> I guess you COULD call the PDP-11 a "mini", but
>> imho it didn't have quite the "feel". More like
>> a cut-down mainframe. Good peripheral bus though,
>> you could plug in all kinds of goodies.
>
> Oh, most PDP-11's were definitely minis. Consider that the address space
> was 16 bits, i.e. 64 KB. On the 11/45 you could set the MMU to separate
> instruction fetches into a separate 64KB space from the data
> read/writes, but I never got comfortable with that.
>
> The 11/70 could do multi-user with a larger physical memory, so it could
> run V6 unix (or the 16-bit BSD version). But nobody should confuse it
> with a mainframe.
>
> The genius of the mainframe version of transaction processing was that
> the queue of incoming transactions did not have too live in CPU memory
> ... it sat in the memory of the terminals, waiting for a poll that would
> bring it inside. This was in complete contrast to the mini computer
> terminals that were ASYNC TTY, requiring the CPU to catch the character
> when the UART interrupted, and the host mini would then decide whether
> the character should be echoed back or not.
AFAIK several minis had multiplexer channels. It is likely that
one could handle several terminals using single multiplexer
channel and drasticaly cut number of interrupts that way. Also
I remember reading about special purpose communiation units that
handled several terminals and put incoming characters in memory.
It seems that interrupt per character became popular with full
screen editors: deciding what needs to be handled by software
and what could be handled in the terminal became more complex.
So initally interrupt per character was the only way to provide
new functionality and later computers become powerful enough
that cost of interrupts did not matter too much.
--
Waldek Hebisch
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 04:00 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cealq$c66a$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236431 |
On Wed, 4 Nov 2026 03:29:19 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote: > AFAIK several minis had multiplexer channels. It is likely that one > could handle several terminals using single multiplexer channel and > drasticaly cut number of interrupts that way. Also I remember > reading about special purpose communiation units that handled > several terminals and put incoming characters in memory. The PDP-11/70 that was the main campus machine in my first year as a student had its terminals connected via DEC DH11 and DZ11 multiplexors. The former did DMA and multiplexing, the latter was interrupt-per-character. DMA made sense for bulk transfers (particularly terminal output), but interrupt-per-character involved less setup when transfer rates were low. When the VAX came along, the system managers put in third-party multiplexors called “VMZ”, as I recall. These could switch between DMA and interrupt-per-character modes, so it could run efficiently over a wide range of traffic loads. It took a while before DEC itself brought out a product with similar capabilities -- I think this was the DMF32. The nice thing was, in VMS V3 and later, DEC broke out the terminal driver functionality into a hardware-independent “class driver”, which handled all the fancy stuff like custom line terminators and “out-of-band” character interrupts, while all the low-level hardware details were put into a separate “port driver”. And these two drivers made all kinds of calls into each other. The point of the mechanism was that third parties could implement their own “port driver”, and they could offer all the standard VMS terminal functionality, without having to reinvent it. Where else have you heard of the owner of a platform being so supportive of third parties competing directly with its own products?
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 04:05 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11ceav5$1kij$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236431 |
According to Waldek Hebisch <antispam@fricas.org>: >> Oh, most PDP-11's were definitely minis. Consider that the address space >> was 16 bits, i.e. 64 KB. On the 11/45 you could set the MMU to separate >> instruction fetches into a separate 64KB space from the data >> read/writes, but I never got comfortable with that. ... >AFAIK several minis had multiplexer channels. It is likely that >one could handle several terminals using single multiplexer >channel and drasticaly cut number of interrupts that way. Also >I remember reading about special purpose communiation units that >handled several terminals and put incoming characters in memory. Depends what you mean by multiplexor channel. The PDP-11's I used had disk controllers that could transfer data directly in and out of memory but terminals interrupted for each character. One of the things that made a mini a mini was that the interrupts were fast and it could handle a lot of them. As an extreme exmple, the TSS-8 timesharing system for the PDP-8 used the 680 terminal multiplexor which didn't just interrupt for each character, it interrupted for each bit shifted in or out on a terminal line, 11 bits including start and stop timing bits per character. Nonetheless, TSS/8 worked well and could handle 8 users with decent performance even while handling an interrpt per tty bit. >It seems that interrupt per character became popular with full >screen editors: deciding what needs to be handled by software >and what could be handled in the terminal became more complex. When I was at Yale our GEM system was bitmapped terminals connected to a PDP-11/45 running Unix and an 11/05 running a terminal driver I wrote. The keyboad multiplexor was attached to the 11/05 which in turn had a word at a time serial interface to the 11/45. I did some hackery for our screen editor to handle the easy bits like echoing simple input characters in the 11/05 and just wake up the editor process on the 11/45 when it needed to do something more complicated. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 23:04 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cdp9u$1qa8$4@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236350 |
According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: > I guess you COULD call the PDP-11 a "mini", but > imho it didn't have quite the "feel". More like > a cut-down mainframe. Good peripheral bus though, > you could plug in all kinds of goodies. I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while programming them back in the 1970s. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-03 23:05 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <U6KcnTJbjLWBMnf3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236414 |
On 11/3/26 18:04, John Levine wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> I guess you COULD call the PDP-11 a "mini", but >> imho it didn't have quite the "feel". More like >> a cut-down mainframe. Good peripheral bus though, >> you could plug in all kinds of goodies. > > I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while > programming them back in the 1970s. AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as a 'cut-down' mainframe. DEC had the VAX line of mainframes ... but there was a a market for smaller/cheaper sub-derivatives. The "PDP" line was their answer. Hey, 'C' was developed on the PDP-11. Still remember it as a 'new-fangled' language that was intriguing/fun. Note, for Linux, 'B' compilers CAN still be had. 'B' was kind of a 'less complete' idea of 'C'. Still, usable. Wrote a few little things in 'B' just last year, for fun.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 04:15 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cebg8$1kij$3@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236438 |
According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >> programming them back in the 1970s. > > AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as > a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as > a 'cut-down' mainframe. A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. The PDP-8 I used had "three cycle data break" which did data transfers into or out of memory (that was one cycle) using address and word counts also in memory (those were the other two cycles.) But that was only for the disks, and didn't do all of the other chaining and control stuff that channels did. > DEC had the VAX line of mainframes ... A VAX was a super-mini, not a mainframe. I was there. Again, simpler I/O even though it was a lot bigger than a PDP-8 or PDP-11. If you look through the comp.arch archives you'll find arguments about whether a PDP-10 was a mainframe or a very large mini. I claim it was a mini because its I/O was similar to DEC's other minis, including a hack reminiscent of three-cycle data break. Others say it was a mainframe because it was marketed that way. I will admit that the later KL with a PDP-11 front end and MASSBUS disk I/O was a lot more like a mainframe than the original KA-10. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 00:14 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <cR-cnWPfra-DInf3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236440 |
On 11/3/26 23:15, John Levine wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>> programming them back in the 1970s. >> >> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >> a 'cut-down' mainframe. > > A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes > had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. Kinda true. However 'minis' were SUPPOSED to do everything mainframes could do - just a a DISCOUNT PRICE. Usually true, usually. > A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its > I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. Yep ! No args. The 360s were VERY versatile on MANY levels. > The PDP-8 I used had "three cycle data break" which > did data transfers into or out of memory (that was > one cycle) using address and word counts also in > memory (those were the other two cycles.) But that > was only for the disks, and didn't do all of the other > chaining and control stuff that channels did. > >> DEC had the VAX line of mainframes ... Yep - and the VAX mainframe lines were GREAT. However the 'PDP' lines also had their place in the overall equation. Don't piss on them. > A VAX was a super-mini, not a mainframe. I was there. > Again, simpler I/O even though it was a lot bigger than > a PDP-8 or PDP-11. Ummmmm ... I suspect we're dealing with slightly different defs of 'mainframe' and 'mini' and whatever. There is NO clear line. I'm more centered on What They Could DO. The 'exactly HOW' is less relevant. > If you look through the comp.arch archives you'll find arguments > about whether a PDP-10 was a mainframe or a very large mini. I > claim it was a mini because its I/O was similar to DEC's other > minis, including a hack reminiscent of three-cycle data break. > Others say it was a mainframe because it was marketed that way. > > I will admit that the later KL with a PDP-11 front end and MASSBUS > disk I/O was a lot more like a mainframe than the original KA-10. > Looks like we're gonna have disagreements over WHAT 'class' to assign to various units. It was always a 'soft' subject - and remains so. What 'mainframes'/'minis'/PCs do - it's more an emphasis on Certain Features. Nothing SO different, just 'emphasis' .
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 18:24 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cft81$72$2@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236441 |
It appears that c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> said: >On 11/3/26 23:15, John Levine wrote: >> According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >>>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>>> programming them back in the 1970s. >>> >>> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >>> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >>> a 'cut-down' mainframe. >> >> A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes >> had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. > > Kinda true. > > However 'minis' were SUPPOSED to do everything > mainframes could do - just a a DISCOUNT PRICE. Again, I was there, and that's nonsense. They were sold into different markets. DEC's original markets were labs and communication and other things that the mainframes of the era did not do. I do not ever recall a mini as being advertised as even sort of like a mainframe, since they obviously weren't/ >> A VAX was a super-mini, not a mainframe. I was there. >> Again, simpler I/O even though it was a lot bigger than >> a PDP-8 or PDP-11. > > Ummmmm ... I suspect we're dealing with > slightly different defs of 'mainframe' > and 'mini' and whatever. There is NO > clear line. At the time we didn't have any trouble telling the difference. If you want to retroactively redefine your terms, well, that's on you. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 06:21 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <j9AGS.307463$xwD5.106307@fx47.iad> |
| In reply to | #236440 |
On 2026-11-04, John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote: > According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: > >>> I can assure you that PDP-11s were minicomputers. I spent quite a while >>> programming them back in the 1970s. >> >> AT THE TIME, characterizing the PDP-11 as >> a "mini" is not wrong. I view a "mini" as >> a 'cut-down' mainframe. > > A mini was never a cut-down mainframe. Mainframes > had channels, minis had simple I/O and fast interrupts. > A 360/30 was considerably slower than a PDP-8, but its > I/O architecture clearly made it a mainframe. I agree. I've always believed that the difference between a mainframe and a mini had nothing to do with the size of the box, but everything to do with architecture, particularly I/O. Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented. Everything else - architecture, protocols, philosophy, culture, etc. - was molded by that. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 07:10 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11celpp$fb91$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #236442 |
On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 06:21:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented. Maybe better to say “minis were character-oriented”. Remember DEC had 18-bit and 12-bit minicomputer architectures before IBM even invented the term “byte”.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 07:00 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <7yudnWf0uMfCg3b3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #236443 |
On 11/4/26 02:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 06:21:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented. > > Maybe better to say “minis were character-oriented”. Remember DEC had > 18-bit and 12-bit minicomputer architectures before IBM even invented > the term “byte”. Well, the 'standard' 8-bit byte kind of evolved, or converged. All kinds of byte/word sizes back in the day. We still see ez conversions to octal if specifying numbers in 'C'.
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| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-11-04 18:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: [OT] what's a mini, Dead DEC Punch card times (was Re: Taking Speedy too seriously) |
| Message-ID | <11cftgb$72$3@gal.iecc.com> |
| In reply to | #236466 |
According to c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>: >On 11/4/26 02:10, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2026 06:21:03 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> Mainframes were record-oriented, while minis were byte-oriented. >> >> Maybe better to say “minis were character-oriented”. Remember DEC had >> 18-bit and 12-bit minicomputer architectures before IBM even invented >> the term “byte”. > > Well, the 'standard' 8-bit byte kind of evolved, or converged. Nope. Before S/360 there were word addressed scientific computers and character or digit (decimal digit) addressed commercial machines. The IBM 7030 STRETCH was a one-off with 64 bit words and overimplemented bit level variable sized byte addressing. Then the 360 came out with 8 bit byte addressing and after that it wasn't long before we all know that word and digit addressed machines had no future. -- Regards, John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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