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Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys?

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  Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-13 06:52 +0000
    Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? SpallsHurgenson(NG) <user14325@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2026-06-13 13:59 +0000
      Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Jan van den Broek <balglaas@dds.nl> - 2026-06-13 14:14 +0000
        Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:43 +0000
      Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-14 09:51 +0100
        Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-06-15 06:46 -0400
    Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-13 20:48 +0000
      Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-06-13 20:41 -0700
        Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-14 05:43 +0000
          Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-15 00:22 +0000
          Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Roman Belenov <no@spam.please> - 2026-06-20 09:11 +0300
            Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-06-20 06:45 +0000
              Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Roman Belenov <no@spam.please> - 2026-06-21 12:50 +0300
            They're giving us Copilot keys, but we want Space Cadets? (was: Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys?) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-20 09:31 +0100
        Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys? Bob Eager <throwaway0008@eager.cx> - 2026-06-14 10:39 +0000

#234994 — Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys?

Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least
in the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC
vendors to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
happening?

Because I’m imagining that, 10 or 20 years from now, we’ll be looking
back at this brief time when PC keyboards had this extra key that
never really did anything useful, and stories will be told about why
it was there ...

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#234996

Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> posted:

> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least
> in the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC
> vendors to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
> happening?
> 
> Because I’m imagining that, 10 or 20 years from now, we’ll be looking
> back at this brief time when PC keyboards had this extra key that
> never really did anything useful, and stories will be told about why
> it was there ...

Maybe we can just remap the key to the 'context menu' key that nobody ever 
uses. It is, after all, the same key but with a different picture on the 
top (and it generates a F23 keycode instead of ctrl-shift-f10 keychord)

And in 15 years, Microsoft will probably re-re-map it to something else nobody
uses. What will it be? The anticipation is killing me; I can hardly wait! ;-)

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#234997

Is CoPilot already considered to be folklore?

Time flies!

-- 
Jan v/d Broek                                 balglaas@dds.nl

                "We're through being cool."

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#235004

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 14:14:56 -0000 (UTC), Jan van den Broek wrote:

> Is CoPilot already considered to be folklore?

Reminisce now, and avoid the rush!

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#235006

On 2026-06-13, SpallsHurgenson(NG) wrote:

> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> posted:
>
>> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least
>> in the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC
>> vendors to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
>> happening?
>> 
>> Because I’m imagining that, 10 or 20 years from now, we’ll be looking
>> back at this brief time when PC keyboards had this extra key that
>> never really did anything useful, and stories will be told about why
>> it was there ...
>
> Maybe we can just remap the key to the 'context menu' key that nobody ever 
> uses. It is, after all, the same key but with a different picture on the 
> top (and it generates a F23 keycode instead of ctrl-shift-f10
> keychord)

Ah yes, I call it the Compose key :-)

(I still stand by an assessment that keyboards have too few modifiers,
one for the window manager, one key for compose, and you may be already
out of keys even before you consider a key to switch keymaps.

Non-Emacs users probably have a different assessment.)

> And in 15 years, Microsoft will probably re-re-map it to something else nobody
> uses. What will it be? The anticipation is killing me; I can hardly wait! ;-)

It's time keyboard manufacturers just give Microsoft the finger. This is
silly, keyboards continuing to do Microsoft product placement, instead
of using generic logos or labels.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#235023

Nuno Silva wrote this screed in ALL-CAPS:

> On 2026-06-13, SpallsHurgenson(NG) wrote:
>
>> Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> posted:
>>
>>> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least
>>> in the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC
>>> vendors to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
>>> happening?
>>> 
>>> Because I’m imagining that, 10 or 20 years from now, we’ll be looking
>>> back at this brief time when PC keyboards had this extra key that
>>> never really did anything useful, and stories will be told about why
>>> it was there ...
>>
>> Maybe we can just remap the key to the 'context menu' key that nobody ever 
>> uses. It is, after all, the same key but with a different picture on the 
>> top (and it generates a F23 keycode instead of ctrl-shift-f10
>> keychord)
>
> Ah yes, I call it the Compose key :-)
>
> (I still stand by an assessment that keyboards have too few modifiers,
> one for the window manager, one key for compose, and you may be already
> out of keys even before you consider a key to switch keymaps.
>
> Non-Emacs users probably have a different assessment.)

Fluxbox supports keystroke chords (e.g. Ctrl-x Ctrl-c) to initiate stuff.
I don't use chords, but with Shift, Ctrl Left/Right, Alt, and the
friggin' Microsoft Windows key, plenty of knuckle-busting key
combinations.

I've seen Emacs users whose hands look like the hands of an aged
roofer :-).

>> And in 15 years, Microsoft will probably re-re-map it to something else nobody
>> uses. What will it be? The anticipation is killing me; I can hardly wait! ;-)
>
> It's time keyboard manufacturers just give Microsoft the finger. This is
> silly, keyboards continuing to do Microsoft product placement, instead
> of using generic logos or labels.

Well, the generic keyboards I see label the key with "Win" or
"Cmd".

-- 
<Knghtbrd> you know, Linux needs a platform game starring Tux
<Knghtbrd> kinda Super Marioish, but with Tux and things like little cyber
           bugs and borgs and that sort of thing ...
<Knghtbrd> And you have to jump past billgatus and hit the key to drop him
           into the lava and then you see some guy that looks like a RMS
           or someone say "Thank you for rescuing me Tux, but Linus
           Torvalds is in another castle!"

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#235000

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least in
> the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC vendors
> to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
> happening?

The 'Windows' key has become a fixture on most keyboards. It's a good one 
to map to Meta for i3 or sway.

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#235002

On 6/13/26 13:48, rbowman wrote:
> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> 
>> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least in
>> the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC vendors
>> to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
>> happening?
> 
> The 'Windows' key has become a fixture on most keyboards. It's a good one
> to map to Meta for i3 or sway.

One of the reasons I bought my Unicomp was that it didn't have that 
stupid extra key, or anything associated with windows.

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#235003

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 20:41:35 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> One of the reasons I bought my Unicomp was that it didn't have that
> stupid extra key, or anything associated with windows.

The “Super” modifier key was known in Lisp machine days though, wasn’t
it. And Emacs still knows that name. The “Windows” key is commonly
treated synonymously with that, particularly on keyboards, like on my
Linux boxes, that don’t have any actual Microsoft-related marks on
them.

Emacs also knows about the “Hyper” modifier key, but there seems to be
no available key on currently-common PC keyboards that could serve
that function ...

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#235017

On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 05:43:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

> The “Super” modifier key was known in Lisp machine days though, wasn’t
> it.
> And Emacs still knows that name. The “Windows” key is commonly treated
> synonymously with that, particularly on keyboards, like on my Linux
> boxes,
> that don’t have any actual Microsoft-related marks on them.

The default config for sway refers to it (Mod4) as the Logo key in a 
comment. xmodmap calls it Super_L and Super_R with three different 
keycodes. I don't know if the extra key on the right is Super_R. i3 treats 
the left key as expected, but the right does something different. Ubuntu 
also treats them differently. I don't use the right one. 

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#235122

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> Emacs also knows about the “Hyper” modifier key, but there seems to be
> no available key on currently-common PC keyboards that could serve
> that function ...

For some reason (probably just random choice) I mapped Windows key to
Hyper in my Emacs setup back in 90s. I see that Super is kind of
standard now, but it is easier to change system settings than all
keybindings in Emacs configs.

Regards, Roman

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#235123

On Sat, 20 Jun 2026 09:11:46 +0300, Roman Belenov wrote:

> For some reason (probably just random choice) I mapped Windows key
> to Hyper in my Emacs setup back in 90s. I see that Super is kind of
> standard now, but it is easier to change system settings than all
> keybindings in Emacs configs.

Surely a global search-and-replace of “\H-” with “\s-” in your .emacs
ought to do the trick. ;)

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#235138

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

> Surely a global search-and-replace of “\H-” with “\s-” in your .emacs
> ought to do the trick. ;)

It's also "[(hyper " and probably other variants.

Regards, Roman

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#235125 — They're giving us Copilot keys, but we want Space Cadets? (was: Re: Do Keyboards Still Include “Copilot” Keys?)

On 2026-06-20, Roman Belenov wrote:

> Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
>
>> Emacs also knows about the “Hyper” modifier key, but there seems to be
>> no available key on currently-common PC keyboards that could serve
>> that function ...
>
> For some reason (probably just random choice) I mapped Windows key to
> Hyper in my Emacs setup back in 90s. I see that Super is kind of
> standard now, but it is easier to change system settings than all
> keybindings in Emacs configs.
>
> Regards, Roman

There were some Sun keyboards that were USB and had more modifiers and
other keys. Is there any such thing being currently manufactured? With
decent keyboard quality?

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#235007

On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 20:41:35 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> On 6/13/26 13:48, rbowman wrote:
>> On Sat, 13 Jun 2026 06:52:33 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> 
>>> Now that Microsoft seems to be dialling back its AI hysteria at least
>>> in the consumer market, I wonder if it will stop “encouraging” PC
>>> vendors to include the “Copilot” key on their keyboards. Is this still
>>> happening?
>> 
>> The 'Windows' key has become a fixture on most keyboards. It's a good
>> one to map to Meta for i3 or sway.
> 
> One of the reasons I bought my Unicomp was that it didn't have that
> stupid extra key, or anything associated with windows.

I have several UniComps, and I have 'Windows' and the other useless key. 
But I map them to something useful.

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