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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #159371

Re: Qbasic

From Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Qbasic
Date 2016-02-14 10:15 -0800
Organization Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID <87twlbw43x.fsf@garlic.com> (permalink)
References (13 earlier) <db106e35-ebe9-40ac-b602-b8b016462d93@googlegroups.com> <MPG.31299bb74b919d28989f78@news.eternal-september.org> <4a762613-d897-4924-b2cf-cd50dbd14b8b@googlegroups.com> <n9q4pb$7bj$1@news.albasani.net> <1385597732.477157142.786322.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org>

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Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> writes:
> VM needs a LOT less memory than MVS.  My guess is that you could run a
> reasonable system in 64K (Lynn?) I know that on the same size machine VM
> ran much better than MVS/TSO.

Part of CMS issue was that it got increasingly bloated over the years
... and was also dependent on mainstream OS/360(MVS) applications ported
to CMS. Endicott did XT/370 ... a couple 68k processors emulating some
part of 370 running modified vm370 (with CMS) ... I/O was done by
interprocessor messages with cp88 running on the 8088 processor ...  it
initially only had 384k "real memory". I did some number of "benchmarks"
show extreme page thrashing ... because of the bloated memory
requirements for compilers and assemblers. As a result they kludged an
extra 128k on the memory card ... giving 512kbytes ... which helped to
reduce the worst of the page thrashing.

However, the 370 applications still tended to be relatively disk
instensive (even w/o page thrashing) ... running on xt/370 compared
poorly with applications implemented for the pc/xt environment.  A CMS
disk i/o required interprocessor message to cp88 which then did the i/o
on the native XT 100ms/access hard drive. Applications native for PC/XT
optimized for much less disk i/o per operation.

MVS/TSO was significantly more bloated than VM370/CMS, much longer
pathlengths, much less efficient system algorithms. CMS had some number
of much more efficient native applications like editor ... but the
compilers and assemblers were just ported to CMS from os360/MVS.

CMS (& CP67 & vm370) I/O was much more efficient than OS360/MVS (but
applications mainframe disks were much faster than PC disks ... so
applications weren't as sensitive to optimization).

Late 70s, IBM San Jose Research had environment with MVS 370/168 and
VM370 370/158 with all 3330 disk strings connected to both machines
... but strict rules that MVS 3330 disks would never be mounted on vm370
"strings".  One day they accidentally violated the rule and the
datacenter almost got phone calls from users complaining about CMS
response horribly degraded. The issue is os360/MVS environment makes
heavy use of multi-track search ... which can tie-up channel, controller
and disks for up to 1/3sec at a time. MVS multi-track search on VM370
string will lockout the vm370 "dedicated" controller ... having
disastrous effects on CMS response. We immediately demanded that the MVS
3330 disk be moved to MVS string ... and MVS operations said they would
do it 2nd shift (this was around 10am).

We had enormously optimized VS1 for running under vm370 ... that ran
faster under loaded vm370 on 370/158 than MVS ran on 370/168. We put its
3330 up on MVS string and were able to bring the MVS system to its knees
with multi-track searches (and CMS response almost returns to
normal). MVS operations then agreed to immediately move the MVS 3330, if
we moved the VS1 3330.

Besides all the significant performance issues with MVS/TSO ... a
significant part of TSO response is significantly hurt by the underlying
MVS use of multi-track search. Some past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/submain.html#dasd

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Qbasic philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-02-05 11:25 -0600
  Re: Qbasic Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-02-05 14:56 -0800
    Re: Qbasic philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-02-05 18:13 -0600
      Re: Qbasic Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-02-05 22:40 -0500
        Re: Qbasic philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-02-05 22:32 -0600
          Re: Qbasic "Gene Buckle" <gene.buckle@bbs.retroarchive.org.remove-3hg-this> - 2016-02-11 10:22 -0800
            Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-11 17:16 -0800
              Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-11 18:49 -0800
                Re: Qbasic philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-02-12 05:25 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-12 11:50 +0000
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-12 14:02 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-12 23:24 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-12 09:50 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 06:53 -0500
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-12 13:40 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-12 09:53 -0800
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-13 14:37 +0000
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-12 14:04 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-12 09:55 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-12 20:49 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-02-12 23:21 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-12 15:55 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-02-13 00:26 +0000
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:55 +0000
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-12 21:09 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-12 17:11 -0600
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:27 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 06:26 -0500
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:54 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-17 11:34 -0800
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-17 19:56 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-17 12:48 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-17 18:52 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-17 19:23 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-18 12:00 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-18 15:02 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:36 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-19 04:14 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-02-19 20:05 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 21:34 -0500
                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-20 08:03 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 11:09 -0500
                Re: Qbasic JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 10:39 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-20 12:05 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-20 13:47 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-20 14:21 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-20 18:06 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-20 18:57 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-02-20 14:02 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-02-20 16:51 -0400
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-18 21:34 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-18 06:25 +0000
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-18 14:17 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-18 11:33 -0600
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-18 17:41 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-18 14:54 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-17 18:41 -0700
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 20:14 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-18 20:54 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-19 11:44 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-13 12:24 -0600
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:26 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-13 07:43 -0700
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 10:29 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 08:20 -0800
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 09:21 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 12:44 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 11:31 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 15:52 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 13:02 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 16:58 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 20:24 -0800
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 21:39 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 14:17 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 20:00 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 17:52 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-13 19:28 -0800
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 21:32 -0800
                Re: Qbasic David Wade <dave.g4ugm@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 14:59 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-14 10:15 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-14 09:48 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-14 12:01 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-14 19:36 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 20:35 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-14 10:15 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 08:20 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-14 14:31 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-14 19:33 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-16 18:52 -0700
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 14:04 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name,invalid> - 2016-02-13 23:18 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-13 17:25 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 19:42 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 20:30 -0800
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 21:49 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 06:36 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 08:23 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 08:27 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-16 18:52 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-15 21:27 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 14:30 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-15 23:38 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-17 11:23 -0800
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-15 20:49 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-16 07:07 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 10:33 +0100
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-16 13:43 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-16 15:21 +0100
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-17 11:30 -0800
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-17 19:49 +0000
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-18 13:58 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-18 16:53 +0100
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-19 14:24 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 05:09 +1100
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 03:30 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-20 19:06 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 05:55 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-20 21:42 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 12:05 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-20 16:24 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Anonymous <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-02-21 00:26 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-19 11:15 -0700
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 03:43 +1100
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-19 18:36 +0000
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 03:31 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-20 19:13 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 06:00 +1100
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-16 10:10 -0800
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 18:32 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-16 21:08 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Stan Barr <plan.b@bluesomatic.org> - 2016-02-16 08:20 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-16 18:52 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-02-16 20:30 -0600
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-17 04:17 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-17 11:25 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-13 17:25 +0100
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-13 11:34 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 16:47 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-14 04:09 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 12:12 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-14 19:39 -0500
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 19:55 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-14 20:08 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-14 20:41 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 12:06 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 09:21 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-15 09:29 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-15 21:22 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 13:39 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-15 21:20 +0000
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 09:18 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 13:07 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 10:48 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 15:49 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 14:09 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 19:56 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 17:43 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-14 04:16 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-13 23:35 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 20:08 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-13 17:55 -0800
                Re: Qbasic Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-02-14 04:14 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-14 08:48 -0700
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-13 16:13 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 04:44 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-13 23:30 +0100
                Re: Qbasic "Blanco" <rko4410@gmail.com> - 2016-02-14 13:27 +1100
                Re: Qbasic Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-14 13:43 -0600
                Re: Qbasic "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-15 07:31 +1100
                Re: Qbasic pechter@pechter.dyndns.org (William Pechter) - 2016-02-12 17:38 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:33 -0500
                Re: Qbasic Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-12 09:51 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-12 19:24 -0500
                Re: Qbasic jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-13 14:37 +0000
                Re: Qbasic "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-13 10:24 -0500
                Re: Qbasic hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-12 23:20 -0800
                Re: Qbasic "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-13 11:09 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-02-14 00:53 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Roberto Waltman <usenet@rwaltman.com> - 2016-02-15 23:30 -0500
                Re: Qbasic scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-02-16 15:56 +0000
                Re: Qbasic Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-13 11:33 +0000

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