Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #160061

Re: Windows 10 forceful update?

From Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Windows 10 forceful update?
Date 2016-02-21 11:52 -0800
Organization Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID <878u2dyh7g.fsf@garlic.com> (permalink)
References <na49hv$nmq$1@dont-email.me> <diqrn8Fc6nfU3@mid.individual.net> <dit8a8FcoqU1@mid.individual.net>

Show all headers | View raw


Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> writes:
> All the major banks in London have IBM mainframes running variations
> of MVS.

Lots of overnight Cobol batch settlement systems from the 60s & 70s. In the
late 70s, some of these started to be front-ended with real-time
transactions ... but final settlement was done in the overnight batch.

I've periodically mentioned that in the 90s that billions were spent to
move off overnight Cobol batch settlement to "straight through
processing" with large numbers of "killer micros" (motivated by
globalization both increasing the workload and decreasing the size of
overnight window). Turns out these implementations were using standard
parallization libraries that had 100 times the overhead (compared to
cobol batch). I got to point this out to some large implementations but
was totally ignored. In general they all waited to pilot implementations
before seeing them go down in flames (overhead totally swamped
anticipated throughput improvements with large numbers of killer
micros).

Middle of last decade ... I got involved with some new technology that
involved high level definition of business rules that they generated
fine grain SQL statements that were parallelized by cluster RDBMS
implementations (most RDBMS had done enormous work on efficient cluster
RDBMS parallelization) ... was able to show mirrored transactions as
"straight through processing" from large ibm mainframe operations that
used dozens of max configured mainframe systems doing cobol batch ... in
less elapsed time. These efficient cluster RDBMS implementations
included significant amounts of redundancy and all sorts of recovery.

We took it to major financial industry associations and initially got
lots of positive interest ... then all stopped and hit a brick wall.  We
were finally told that there were still quite a few executives that bore
the scars of the 90s failures and were quite risk adverse ...  it would
take another generation before new attempts would be made.

tribute for somebody I worked with at IBM Research
http://web.archive.org/web/20080616153833/http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/IPRO/JimGrayTribute/pressrelease.html

Gray is known for his groundbreaking work as a programmer, database
expert and Microsoft engineer. Gray's work helped make possible such
technologies as the cash machine, ecommerce, online ticketing, and deep
databases like Google.

... snip ...

i.e. DBMS ACID properties gave auditors increased assurance that they
could trust computer records.
http://www.tpc.org/information/who/gray.asp

lots past posts mentioning moving off overnight batch failures:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2003j.html#51 Transactions for Industrial Strength Programming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2006s.html#40 Ranking of non-IBM mainframe builders?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007e.html#31 Quote from comp.object
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#15 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007l.html#20 John W. Backus, 82, Fortran developer, dies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007m.html#36 Future of System/360 architecture?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#19 Distributed Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#21 Distributed Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#37 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#44 Distributed Computing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007u.html#61 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#19 Education ranking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#27 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#64 folklore indeed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#69 Controlling COBOL DDs named SYSOUT
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#72 whats the world going to do when all the baby boomers retire
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007v.html#81 Tap and faucet and spellcheckers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008b.html#74 Too much change opens up financial fault lines
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008c.html#92 CPU time differences for the same job
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#30 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#31 Toyota Sales for 2007 May Surpass GM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#73 Price of CPU seconds
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#87 Berkeley researcher describes parallel path
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008d.html#89 Berkeley researcher describes parallel path
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008g.html#55 performance of hardware dynamic scheduling
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#50 Microsoft versus Digital Equipment Corporation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008h.html#56 Long running Batch programs keep IMS databases offline
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#26 What is the biggest IT myth of all time?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008p.html#30 Automation is still not accepted to streamline the business processes... why organizations are not accepting newer technolgies?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2008r.html#7 If you had a massively parallel computing architecture, what unsolved problem would you set out to solve?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009.html#87 Cleaning Up Spaghetti Code vs. Getting Rid of It
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009c.html#43 Business process re-engineering
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009d.html#14 Legacy clearing threat to OTC derivatives warns State Street
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009f.html#55 Cobol hits 50 and keeps counting
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#1 z/Journal Does it Again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009h.html#2 z/Journal Does it Again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#21 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#23 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX? (Are settlements a good argument for overnight batch COBOL ?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#26 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#30 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#38 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#43 Why are z/OS people reluctant to use z/OS UNIX? (Are settlements a good argument for overnight batch COBOL ?)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009i.html#60 In the USA "financial regulator seeks power to curb excess speculation."
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009l.html#57 IBM halves mainframe Linux engine prices
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009m.html#81 A Faster Way to the Cloud
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009n.html#13 UK issues Turning apology (and about time, too)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009o.html#81 big iron mainframe vs. x86 servers
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009p.html#57 MasPar compiler and simulator
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009q.html#67 Now is time for banks to replace core system according to Accenture
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#35 70 Years of ATM Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2009r.html#47 70 Years of ATM Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010.html#77 Korean bank Moves back to Mainframes (...no, not back)
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#16 How long for IBM System/360 architecture and its descendants?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010b.html#19 STEM crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010e.html#77 Madoff Whistleblower Book
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010f.html#56 Handling multicore CPUs; what the competition is thinking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010g.html#37 16:32 far pointers in OpenWatcom C/C++
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#47 COBOL - no longer being taught - is a problem
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010h.html#78 Software that breaks computer hardware( was:IBM 029 service manual )
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010i.html#41 Idiotic programming style edicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010k.html#3 Assembler programs was Re: Delete all members of a PDS that is allocated
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010l.html#14 Age
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#13 Is the ATM still the banking industry's single greatest innovation?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010m.html#37 A Bright Future for Big Iron?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010o.html#71 They always think we don't understand
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2010p.html#48 WikiLeaks' Wall Street Bombshell
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#19 zLinux OR Linux on zEnterprise Blade Extension???
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011.html#42 Looking for a real Fortran-66 compatible PC compiler (CP/M or DOSor Windows
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011c.html#35 If IBM Hadn't Bet the Company
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#15 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#19 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#91 Mainframe Fresher
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011e.html#93 Itanium at ISSCC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011f.html#32 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#5 Home prices may drop another 25%, Shiller predicts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011h.html#8 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#25 Happy 100th Birthday, IBM!
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011i.html#52 At least two decades back, some gurus predicted that mainframes would disappear in future and it still has not happened
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#15 Is the SEC Covering Up Wall Street Crimes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011k.html#70 New IBM Redbooks residency experience in Poughkeepsie, NY
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011m.html#71 Don't Dump the Volcker Rule Just Because It's Not Perfect
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#1 Banks Awash in Cash, Which Isn't Good News
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#10 Has anyone successfully migrated off mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011n.html#23 Why are organizations sticking with mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#9 John R. Opel, RIP
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011o.html#79 Why are organizations sticking with mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#8 Why are organizations sticking with mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2011p.html#12 Why are organizations sticking with mainframes?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012.html#49 No internet in 1984
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#13 Study links ultrafast machine trading with risk of crash
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012c.html#25 Goldman Sachs P.R. Chief's Accidental Exit Interview
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012e.html#49 US payments system failing to meet the needs of the digital economy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#0 Burroughs B5000, B5500, B6500 videos
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#24 Time to competency for new software language?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#69 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012j.html#77 Monopoly/ Cartons of Punch Cards
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#19 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#31 X86 server
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012l.html#47 I.B.M. Mainframe Evolves to Serve the Digital World
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#18 System/360--50 years--the future?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012n.html#24 System/360--50 years--the future?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013.html#42 Professor Coffee Hits a Nerve at SEC
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013b.html#42 COBOL will outlive us all
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#84 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#57 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#64 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#6 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013g.html#50 The cloud is killing traditional hardware and software
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#30 'Big four' accountants 'use knowledge of Treasury to help rich avoid tax'
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#42 The Mainframe is "Alive and Kicking"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013i.html#49 Internet Mainframe Forums Considered Harmful
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#35 Why is the mainframe so expensive?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013o.html#80 "Death of the mainframe"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#29 Royal Pardon for credit unions
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#81 CPU time
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014b.html#83 CPU time
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#22 US Federal Reserve pushes ahead with Faster Payments planning
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014c.html#90 Why do bank IT systems keep failing ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#10 Can the mainframe remain relevant in the cloud and mobile era?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#69 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014f.html#78 Over in the Mainframe Experts Network LinkedIn group
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014g.html#14 Is end of mainframe near ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#38 Meet Cobol's hard core fans
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014l.html#76 This Was the Very First Website In the US
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#71 Decimation of the valuation of IBM
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#119 Holy Grail for parallel programming language
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#170 IBM Continues To Crumble
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#78 Is there an Inventory of the Inalled Mainframe Systems Worldwide
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#65 A New Performance Model ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#2 More "ageing mainframe" (bad) press
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#112 Is there a source for detailed, instruction-level performance info?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#25 1976 vs. 2016?

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

Back to alt.folklore.computers | Previous | NextPrevious in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread


Thread

Windows 10 forceful update? "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-18 11:25 +0000
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-02-18 11:52 +0000
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "gareth" <no.spam@thank.you.invalid> - 2016-02-18 12:16 +0000
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 10:27 -0600
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-18 11:51 -0500
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 05:42 +1100
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-18 11:31 +0000
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-02-18 12:01 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-18 16:04 +0000
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-18 18:02 -0500
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-18 09:18 -0500
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-18 16:43 +0100
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-18 11:49 -0500
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-18 21:49 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-18 19:53 -0500
            Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-19 10:27 +0100
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-02-18 09:08 -0700
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-18 11:50 -0600
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-02-18 11:52 -0600
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-19 14:04 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-02-19 15:32 +0100
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-19 10:19 -0500
          Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-19 17:40 +0000
            Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-02-19 19:01 +0100
            Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-19 11:30 -0800
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-19 14:57 +0000
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Stephen Wolstenholme <steve@easynn.com> - 2016-02-19 15:51 +0000
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-02-19 18:42 +0100
          Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-02-19 13:56 -0600
            Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-02-19 23:57 +0100
              Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-19 15:17 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-02-19 18:27 -0500
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Melzzzzz <mel@zzzzz.com> - 2016-02-20 00:38 +0100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-02-19 19:41 -0600
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 14:46 +1100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-02-20 15:18 +0000
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 03:32 +1100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-20 19:38 +0100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-21 06:04 +1100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 14:29 +1100
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-02-20 06:35 +0000
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2016-02-20 13:54 -0500
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-20 20:51 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-21 13:43 +0000
          Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-20 09:59 +0000
            Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-02-21 07:46 +0000
              Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-21 13:42 +0000
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-02-22 07:12 +0000
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-02-22 14:27 +0000
              Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-21 16:43 +0100
              Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-21 11:52 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-02-22 11:34 -0800
                Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-02-22 12:40 -0800
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 05:47 +1100
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-18 16:20 -0800
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 13:35 +1100
      Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-02-18 20:43 -0800
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-02-19 05:53 -0500
        Re: Windows 10 forceful update? "hgww" <hgww@gmail.com> - 2016-02-20 04:28 +1100
    Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-02-19 10:17 +0100
  Re: Windows 10 forceful update? Jan van den Broek <fortytwo@xs4all.nl> - 2016-02-19 10:06 +0100

csiph-web