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Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird

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  Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-20 15:46 +0000
    Re: Betterbird & Base64 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 00:05 +0800
      Re: Betterbird & Base64 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-06-20 17:17 +0100
        Re: Betterbird & Base64 "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-20 16:32 +0000
          Re: Betterbird & Base64 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 01:00 +0800
          Re: Betterbird & Base64 "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 01:10 +0800
    Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2026-06-20 12:15 -0500
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-20 19:59 +0100
        Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-21 04:59 -0400
          Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Alfred Peters <miteinere-mail-adresseindereinleitungszeilewirddieseoftzulang@geekmail.de> - 2026-06-21 11:15 +0200
          Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-21 10:18 +0100
            Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-06-21 19:55 +0100
              Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-21 20:11 +0100
                Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-06-21 20:50 +0100
                  UTF-8 (was: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird) Marcel Logen <333200007110-0201@ybtra.de> - 2026-06-22 00:00 +0200
                    Re: UTF-8 "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-06-22 01:41 +0100
    Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> - 2026-06-20 20:58 +0200
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-20 20:02 +0100
        Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-20 20:03 +0100
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-20 19:25 +0000
    Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> - 2026-06-21 08:02 +1200
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-21 00:13 +0000
    Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Alfred Peters <miteinere-mail-adresseindereinleitungszeilewirddieseoftzulang@geekmail.de> - 2026-06-21 10:05 +0200
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Alfred Peters <miteinere-mail-adresseindereinleitungszeilewirddieseoftzulang@geekmail.de> - 2026-06-21 10:11 +0200
        Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-21 09:34 +0100
          Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Alfred Peters <miteinere-mail-adresseindereinleitungszeilewirddieseoftzulang@geekmail.de> - 2026-06-21 10:55 +0200
      Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-06-21 09:26 +0100
        Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 13:11 +0200
          Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Jörg Knobloch <jorgk@jorgk.com> - 2026-06-21 14:29 +0200
          Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird Alfred Peters <miteinere-mail-adresseindereinleitungszeilewirddieseoftzulang@geekmail.de> - 2026-06-21 17:33 +0200
            Re: Betterbird has same problem as Thunderbird "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-21 19:27 +0200
    [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-21 20:54 +0800
      Re: [OT] Oranges <Oranges@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-22 00:05 +0100
        Re: [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 13:14 +0800
        Re: [OT] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-22 03:11 -0400
          Re: [OT] "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-22 07:57 +0000
            Re: [OT] "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 18:55 +0800
            [OT]troll? trope? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 19:22 +0800
            Re: [OT] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-22 10:25 -0400
              Re: [OT] "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-22 14:47 +0000
                Re: [OT] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-22 16:03 -0400
                  Re: [OT] "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> - 2026-06-23 02:35 +0000
                    Re: [OT] "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-06-23 19:53 +0200

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#20956

On Sat, 20 Jun 2026 15:46:29 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman wrote:

> Undesireable Base64 encoding, which does not belong on Usenet, and upon
> decoding, the line boundaries are nonstandard.
> 
> Message-ID: <n9nlh8F30qfU1@mid.individual.net>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
> User-Agent: Betterbird (Linux)

The decoded line boundaries are CRLF and CRLF is the standard 
on-the-wire line boundary.  See, for example, RFC5537 "Netnews 
Architecture and Protocols" section 2 "Transport".

    <https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5537#section-2>

|    Transports for Netnews articles MUST treat news articles as
|    uninterpreted sequences of octets, excluding the values %d00 (which
|    may not occur in Netnews articles), %d13, and %d10 (which MUST only
|    appear in Netnews articles as a pair in that order and which,
|    together, denote a line separator).  These octets are the US-ASCII
|    [ASCII] characters NUL, CR, and LF respectively.


If your system has a different line boundary as its internal standard, 
then it is _your_ system's responsibility to convert from CRLF (the 
standard on-the-wire line boundary) when processing received messages.


-- 
Kind regards
Ralph Fox
🦊️

︎Se ðe hım ealne ƿeᵹ onꝺꞃæꞇ, ꞅe bıð ꞅƿẏlce he ꞅẏ ealne ƿeᵹ cƿellenꝺe.

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#20959

Ralph Fox <-rf-nz-@-.invalid> wrote:
>On Sat, 20 Jun 2026 15:46:29 -0000 (UTC), Adam H. Kerman wrote:

>>Undesireable Base64 encoding, which does not belong on Usenet, and upon
>>decoding, the line boundaries are nonstandard.

>>Message-ID: <n9nlh8F30qfU1@mid.individual.net>
>>Mime-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>>User-Agent: Betterbird (Linux)

>The decoded line boundaries are CRLF and CRLF is the standard 
>on-the-wire line boundary. . . . 

Let's see if you are correct. I saved the body to a file and decoded it
on the command line.
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Hi all,

Two empty freight trains collided whilst shunting at approx. 01:40 on 
20.06.26. Sadly one staff member was killed (a shunter?). Two elements 
of the wagons fell onto Schleißheimer Straße below.

<https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/muenchen-gueterzug-stuerzt-von-bruecke,VN3ODtQ>

<https://youtu.be/oEPFc5mevdI>

The wagons appear to be of the ARS Hccrrs type.

Cheers,
>-- 
Rob
"I have never understood why it should be necessary to become irrational 
in order to prove that you care, or, indeed, why it should be necessary 
to prove it at all." - Avon, Blake's 7

I was doing a followup. trn decoded. I'll guess that it fed the wrong
options to vim, which I use to edit in the composer.

I'll see if there is an option to fix it.

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#20960

Es schrieb einmal Adam H. Kerman:
> Undesireable Base64 encoding, which does not belong on Usenet, and upon

That's most likely due to the sender's settings.

He probably set the pref: "mail.strictly_mime true" to force 7-bit
encoding. This causes TB to use "quoted-printable" as
Content-Transfer-Encoding, as should be visible in this article.

> Message-ID: <n9nlh8F30qfU1@mid.individual.net>
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

But he also enabled "format=flowed". Since that causes problems with
flowing text in conjunction with "quoted-printable", TB then switches to
"base64".

If you don't want TB to use base64, you just have to do without one of
those options.

Alfred

(mail.strictly_mime true)
(mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed	false)
-- 
A few eight bits: äöü

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#20961

Es schrieb einmal Alfred Peters:
> If you don't want TB to use base64, you just have to do without one of
> those options.

And now with "format=flowed".

Alfred

(mail.strictly_mime true)
(mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed	true)
-- 
A few eight bits: äöü

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#20963

Alfred Peters wrote:

> Es schrieb einmal Alfred Peters:
>> If you don't want TB to use base64, you just have to do without one of
>> those options.

Unfortunately Adam's blood pressure depends on other people changing 
their settings, not him changing his ... the TB/BB users won't see the 
base64 problem, because it can display the decoded version of the base64 
encoded text, but it appears that trn does not?

> And now with "format=flowed".
> 
> Alfred
> 
> (mail.strictly_mime true)
> (mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed    true)

For me, there's a third condition : body including a non 7bit character, 
but it seems that you get base64 even without such a character?

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#20964

Es schrieb einmal Andy Burns:
> Alfred Peters wrote:

>> (mail.strictly_mime true)
>> (mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed<u+00A0><u+00A0><u+00A0> true)

There were a few 8-bit characters hiding there.

> For me, there's a third condition : body including a non 7bit character, 
> but it seems that you get base64 even without such a character?

Without the non-breaking space (u+00A0), it should work with the 7-bit 
CTE as well.

Alfred

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#20962

Alfred Peters wrote:

> That's most likely due to the sender's settings.
> 
> He probably set the pref: "mail.strictly_mime true" to force 7-bit
> encoding. This causes TB to use "quoted-printable" as
> Content-Transfer-Encoding, as should be visible in this article.
I thought that I had strictly_mime enabled, but turns out I did not, 
having enabled it, yes I get base64 on messages with non-7bit characters 
(I do have format flowed too)

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#20968

On 2026-06-21 10:26, Andy Burns wrote:
> Alfred Peters wrote:
> 
>> That's most likely due to the sender's settings.
>>
>> He probably set the pref: "mail.strictly_mime true" to force 7-bit
>> encoding. This causes TB to use "quoted-printable" as
>> Content-Transfer-Encoding, as should be visible in this article.
> I thought that I had strictly_mime enabled, but turns out I did not, 
> having enabled it, yes I get base64 on messages with non-7bit characters 
> (I do have format flowed too)

I don't even have that setting defined.

And I have

mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed	true	

I know that sometimes my TB sends using base64.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#20969

On 21 Jun 2026 13:11, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> 
> I don't even have that setting defined.
> 
> And I have
> 
> mailnews.send_plaintext_flowed    true
> 
> I know that sometimes my TB sends using base64.

Yes, there is a heuristic. "Too many" non-ASCII characters can lead to base64.

You can find the algorithm here:
https://searchfox.org/comm-central/search?q=needsB64&path=&case=false&regexp=false

-- 
Viele Grüße, Jörg
Sent with Betterbird. Simply better.
www.betterbird.eu - www.betterbird.eu/#featuretable
Es ist immer wieder erstaunlich: Kaum macht man's richtig, schon funktioniert's!

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#20972

Es schrieb einmal Carlos E. R.:

>> Alfred Peters wrote:
>>> [mail.strictly_mime true]

> I don't even have that setting defined.

> I know that sometimes my TB sends using base64.

Could you please provide a Message-ID?

Alfred

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#20974

On 2026-06-21 19:20, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> On 2026-06-21 17:33, Alfred Peters wrote:
>> Es schrieb einmal Carlos E. R.:
>>
>>>> Alfred Peters wrote:
>>>>> [mail.strictly_mime true]
>>
>>> I don't even have that setting defined.
>>
>>> I know that sometimes my TB sends using base64.
>>
>> Could you please provide a Message-ID?
> 
  Huh, no, I would have to search messages to find out. I don't usually
  look at the source code view of my own messages, unless there is a reason.



I just looked at several dozens of messages, and did not find the one I 
noticed a week ago. Sorry.

Crashed my TB too, doing ctrl-u on a thread, then several alt-f4, one 
too many. ctrl-alt-f4 closes all TB windows.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#20970 — [OT]

On 6/20/2026 11:46 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Undesireable Base64 encoding, which does not belong on Usenet, and upon
> decoding, the line boundaries are nonstandard.
> 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

Just tell the sender to re-send the message, whether dead or alive or 
sealed! Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!  :)

-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#20981 — Re: [OT]

On 21/06/2026 13:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!

Thunderbird can decode Base64. There's no need to waste time on 
decoding/decrypting games!

Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists 
on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1 
September 2010.

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#20983 — Re: [OT]

On 6/22/2026 7:05 AM, Oranges wrote:
> 
> Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists
> on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1
> September 2010.

But if the message/email is just plain text English, you don't need to 
play with encoding and crypts, right?

Unless, the message is ... well... for military use? :)

-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#20988 — Re: [OT]

On Sun, 6/21/2026 7:05 PM, Oranges wrote:
> On 21/06/2026 13:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!
> 
> Thunderbird can decode Base64. There's no need to waste time on 
> decoding/decrypting games!
> 
> Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists 
> on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1 
> September 2010.

TRN4 has base64 support, but it is only wired up for MIME encoded messages.
It's not clear whether the messages in question have a MIME declaration
as well as a Content Encoding.

   Paul

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#20991 — Re: [OT]

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>On Sun, 6/21/2026 7:05 PM, Oranges wrote:
>>On 21/06/2026 13:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

>>>Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!

>>Thunderbird can decode Base64. There's no need to waste time on 
>>decoding/decrypting games!

>>Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists 
>>on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1 
>>September 2010.

>TRN4 has base64 support, but it is only wired up for MIME encoded messages.
>It's not clear whether the messages in question have a MIME declaration
>as well as a Content Encoding.

This is my troll. You cannot have him. Please don't feed my troll.

The article in question was base64 encoded with a proper MIME
and Content-Encoding declaration.

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#20997 — Re: [OT]

On 6/22/2026 3:57 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> 
> This is my troll. You cannot have him. Please don't feed my troll.

BANG!! BANG!! (shot another A.I.Agent)

What did you say? Can't hear ya.... Louder!!

BANG!! BANG!! (shot another A.I.Agent)

> The article in question was base64 encoded with a proper MIME
> and Content-Encoding declaration.

Ask the sender to re-transmitt the secret!

BANG!! BANG!! (shot another A.I.Agent)
BANG!! BANG!! (shot another A.I.Agent)
...

-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#20998 — [OT]troll? trope?

On 6/22/2026 3:57 PM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> 
> This is my troll. You cannot have him. Please don't feed my troll.


What "troll"? Did you say "my trope"? :)

-- 

    @~@   Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
   / v \  May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
  /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^   https://github.com/changmw/changmw

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#21007 — Re: [OT]

On Mon, 6/22/2026 3:57 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 6/21/2026 7:05 PM, Oranges wrote:
>>> On 21/06/2026 13:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
> 
>>>> Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!
> 
>>> Thunderbird can decode Base64. There's no need to waste time on 
>>> decoding/decrypting games!
> 
>>> Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists 
>>> on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1 
>>> September 2010.
> 
>> TRN4 has base64 support, but it is only wired up for MIME encoded messages.
>> It's not clear whether the messages in question have a MIME declaration
>> as well as a Content Encoding.
> 
> This is my troll. You cannot have him. Please don't feed my troll.
> 
> The article in question was base64 encoded with a proper MIME
> and Content-Encoding declaration.
> 

I have a copy of TRN4 source, so I looked in it to see
if it has any support for base64, and the word does appear
in the source. What I don't know, is if the headers that
declare the encoding, are sufficient to cause TRN4 to
do anything.

It means that the developers who worked on TRN, were not
totally oblivious to the encoding. They know it exists.

   Paul

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#21008 — Re: [OT]

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>On Mon, 6/22/2026 3:57 AM, Adam H. Kerman wrote:
>>Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 6/21/2026 7:05 PM, Oranges wrote:
>>>>On 21/06/2026 13:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

>>>>>Don't waste time playing decoding/decrypting game!

>>>>Thunderbird can decode Base64. There's no need to waste time on 
>>>>decoding/decrypting games!

>>>>Adam Kermit has been told to use Thunderbird, but he refuses and insists 
>>>>on using an obscure newsreader called trn 4.0-test77, released on 1 
>>>>September 2010.

>>>TRN4 has base64 support, but it is only wired up for MIME encoded messages.
>>>It's not clear whether the messages in question have a MIME declaration
>>>as well as a Content Encoding.

>>This is my troll. You cannot have him. Please don't feed my troll.

>>The article in question was base64 encoded with a proper MIME
>>and Content-Encoding declaration.

>I have a copy of TRN4 source, so I looked in it to see
>if it has any support for base64, and the word does appear
>in the source. What I don't know, is if the headers that
>declare the encoding, are sufficient to cause TRN4 to
>do anything.

>It means that the developers who worked on TRN, were not
>totally oblivious to the encoding. They know it exists.

MIME was used on Usenet at the time but hadn't yet been standardized. Is
base64 encoding recognizeable from a byte sequence?

In displaying an article, trn doesn't recognize multi-byte sequences.
Eli the Bearded wrote a patch for that a few years ago but I didn't
implement it. In followup, I get around that with vim the text editor
which can handle nulti-byte sequences as long as I set the translation
in the terminal enulation to match. However, the text editor isn't being
called with a needed option to make sure standard line boundaries are
used after decoding fron base 64.

Regardless, these encodings DO NOT belong on Usenet. They serve no
purpose. I was surprised that Betterbird was doing the needless encoding
same as Thunderbird.

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