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Win10 -> 11 upgrade path?

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  Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-13 21:42 +0000
    Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-13 17:45 -0500
      Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 07:00 +0000
        Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Hank Rogers <invalid@nospam.com> - 2025-01-15 07:56 +0000
          Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 10:12 -0700
            Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 10:54 -0700
            Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 18:10 +0000
        Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-01-15 03:30 -0500
    Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-13 16:54 -0600
    Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Windows 11 24H2 User <fvgtgfrf@juiklopjhy.com> - 2025-01-13 22:40 +0000
      Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 07:00 +0000
    Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-13 19:45 -0500
      Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-01-13 19:09 -0600
        Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-13 22:48 -0500
          Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-14 03:28 -0700
            Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-14 08:43 -0500
              Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2025-01-15 10:28 -0700
        Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Ken Blake <Ken@invalid.news.com> - 2025-01-14 10:05 -0700
      Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? wasbit <wasbit@nowhere.com> - 2025-01-14 09:58 +0000
        Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-14 08:59 -0500
          Re: Win10 -> 11 upgrade path? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-01-14 14:55 -0500

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#16267 — Win10 -> 11 upgrade path?

So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
path for hardware and software?

I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc. 

Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
use an unlicensed version of windows?

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#16268

On Mon, 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
> path for hardware and software?
> 
> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc. 
> 
> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
> use an unlicensed version of windows?
> 

Prepare win11 media, using Rufus.ie USB preparation tool. You can run the
Setup.exe off the USB stick, when you are finished, and do a W11-over-W10
installation. A backup before hand, is recommended (so you can go back to
Windows 10 more easily). Rufus.ie is a web site in Ireland, and that's
the address you'll be entering in your browser. Current version is 4.6p (portable).

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0kMWTB/Rufus-Boot-Stick-Preparation.gif

If you know your PC doesn't have a TPM, doesn't have 16GB of RAM,
doesn't have an NPU, doesn't have the POPCNT instruction, there
are tick boxes in a separate dialog Rufus puts up, which are
used to disable detection of these kinds of things. My Optiplex 780,
is an example of a machine (E8400 Core2 Duo) that cannot make the trip
to Windows 11. That's an example of how old the machine has to be, to fail entirely.
The E8400 does not have SSE 4.2 or the POPCNT instruction. The E8400 is from the
year 2008.

There is more similar information, in this post.

   http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvlcjv2%24mlb7%241%40dont-email.me%3E

Once Rufus has installed the materials, and Windows 11 has booted, you can check with
this command in an administrator window.

    slmgr /dlv

I did the Rufus method on my 4930K (no TPM) and it is installed and running.
I will check now, and see if the license is "copied" to Windows 11.

Notice in this photo, that even though the license for the machine is
based on a sequence of Professional, I have on purpose installed Home
and the Professional license works as a Home license. Part of doing this,
was to make sure that Rufus defeated the encryption of C: for the Home edition.

   [Picture]

    https://i.postimg.cc/PqHvqrK1/Disk33-dual-boot-Win11-Home-Rufus-PNG.gif

   Paul

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#16299

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
> On Mon, 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>> 
>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
>> path for hardware and software?
>> 
>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc. 
>> 
>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>> 
> 
> Prepare win11 media, using Rufus.ie USB preparation tool. You can run the
> Setup.exe off the USB stick, when you are finished, and do a W11-over-W10
> installation. A backup before hand, is recommended (so you can go back to
> Windows 10 more easily). Rufus.ie is a web site in Ireland, and that's
> the address you'll be entering in your browser. Current version is 4.6p (portable).

Thanks. Will have a look. What's a recommended backup solution these days?
I have Macrium 7 free edition which I gather isn't supported any more. 

>    [Picture]
> 
>     https://i.postimg.cc/9Q0kMWTB/Rufus-Boot-Stick-Preparation.gif
> 
> If you know your PC doesn't have a TPM, doesn't have 16GB of RAM,
> doesn't have an NPU, doesn't have the POPCNT instruction, there
> are tick boxes in a separate dialog Rufus puts up, which are
> used to disable detection of these kinds of things. My Optiplex 780,
> is an example of a machine (E8400 Core2 Duo) that cannot make the trip
> to Windows 11. That's an example of how old the machine has to be, to fail entirely.
> The E8400 does not have SSE 4.2 or the POPCNT instruction. The E8400 is from the
> year 2008.
> 
> There is more similar information, in this post.
> 
>    http://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3Cvlcjv2%24mlb7%241%40dont-email.me%3E
> 
> Once Rufus has installed the materials, and Windows 11 has booted, you can check with
> this command in an administrator window.
> 
>     slmgr /dlv
> 
> I did the Rufus method on my 4930K (no TPM) and it is installed and running.
> I will check now, and see if the license is "copied" to Windows 11.
> 
> Notice in this photo, that even though the license for the machine is
> based on a sequence of Professional, I have on purpose installed Home
> and the Professional license works as a Home license. Part of doing this,
> was to make sure that Rufus defeated the encryption of C: for the Home edition.
> 
>    [Picture]
> 
>     https://i.postimg.cc/PqHvqrK1/Disk33-dual-boot-Win11-Home-Rufus-PNG.gif
> 
>    Paul
> 

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#16301

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>>> 
>>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
>>> path for hardware and software?
>>> 
>>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc. 
>>> 
>>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>>> 
>> 
>> Prepare win11 media, using Rufus.ie USB preparation tool. You can run the
>> Setup.exe off the USB stick, when you are finished, and do a W11-over-W10
>> installation. A backup before hand, is recommended (so you can go back to
>> Windows 10 more easily). Rufus.ie is a web site in Ireland, and that's
>> the address you'll be entering in your browser. Current version is 4.6p (portable).
> 
> Thanks. Will have a look. What's a recommended backup solution these days?
> I have Macrium 7 free edition which I gather isn't supported any more. 
> 

It’s still available  but hard to find. The last version is V8. Still works
fine with win 11, but there’s no more updates. If you want to keep using
it, let me know and I’ll dig up the links to download if.

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#16311

Hank Rogers wrote on 1/15/25 12:56 AM:
> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks. Will have a look. What's a recommended backup solution these days?
>> I have Macrium 7 free edition which I gather isn't supported any more.
>>
> 
> It’s still available  but hard to find. The last version is V8. Still works
> fine with win 11, but there’s no more updates. If you want to keep using
> it, let me know and I’ll dig up the links to download if.
> 
> 
> 
> 

Macrium Reflect (last free version) 8.0.7783

<https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/macrium_reflect_free_edition.html>
  - links for both architecture 64/32 bit
64 bit version file size 181, 644 KB

Optionally, it is still avaialble from the Macrium's web server
This method downloads the small(8179 KB) unified installer which when run 
will download the installer bits for local installation.
  => filename is  ReflectDLHF.exe

*** Do not change the above unified installer filename.****
  The unified installer with the filename(above) will only offer to 
download and install the free Home version (DLHF => Download Home Free)

- if the unified installer filename is changed to ReflectFull.exe the 
unified installer will offer to download all other versions for 
installation **except the 'Free' version**.
- if the unifified installer filename is changed to ReflectDLHT.exe, the 
unified installer will only offer to download the Home Trial version.


-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#16315

...w¡ñ§±¤ñ  wrote on 1/15/25 10:12 AM:

P.s. Here is the link to the Macrium web server for the unified installer
  <https://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v8/ReflectDLHF.exe>

> 
> Optionally, it is still avaialble from the Macrium's web server
> This method downloads the small(8179 KB) unified installer which when run 
> will download the installer bits for local installation.
>   => filename is  ReflectDLHF.exe
> 
> *** Do not change the above unified installer filename.****
>   The unified installer with the filename(above) will only offer to 
> download and install the free Home version (DLHF => Download Home Free)
> 
> - if the unified installer filename is changed to ReflectFull.exe the 
> unified installer will offer to download all other versions for 
> installation **except the 'Free' version**.
> - if the unifified installer filename is changed to ReflectDLHT.exe, the 
> unified installer will only offer to download the Home Trial version.
> 
> 


-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#16317

..w¡ñ§±¤ñ  <winstonmvp@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hank Rogers wrote on 1/15/25 12:56 AM:
>> Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks. Will have a look. What's a recommended backup solution these days?
>>> I have Macrium 7 free edition which I gather isn't supported any more.
>>> 
>> 
>> It’s still available  but hard to find. The last version is V8. Still works
>> fine with win 11, but there’s no more updates. If you want to keep using
>> it, let me know and I’ll dig up the links to download if.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> Macrium Reflect (last free version) 8.0.7783
> 
> <https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/macrium_reflect_free_edition.html>
>  - links for both architecture 64/32 bit
> 64 bit version file size 181, 644 KB
> 
> Optionally, it is still avaialble from the Macrium's web server
> This method downloads the small(8179 KB) unified installer which when run 
> will download the installer bits for local installation.
>  => filename is  ReflectDLHF.exe
> 
> *** Do not change the above unified installer filename.****
>  The unified installer with the filename(above) will only offer to 
> download and install the free Home version (DLHF => Download Home Free)
> 
> - if the unified installer filename is changed to ReflectFull.exe the 
> unified installer will offer to download all other versions for 
> installation **except the 'Free' version**.
> - if the unifified installer filename is changed to ReflectDLHT.exe, the 
> unified installer will only offer to download the Home Trial version.

Thanks. 

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#16302

On Wed, 1/15/2025 2:00 AM, Chris wrote:
> Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
>>> path for hardware and software?
>>>
>>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc. 
>>>
>>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>>>
>>
>> Prepare win11 media, using Rufus.ie USB preparation tool. You can run the
>> Setup.exe off the USB stick, when you are finished, and do a W11-over-W10
>> installation. A backup before hand, is recommended (so you can go back to
>> Windows 10 more easily). Rufus.ie is a web site in Ireland, and that's
>> the address you'll be entering in your browser. Current version is 4.6p (portable).
> 
> Thanks. Will have a look. What's a recommended backup solution these days?
> I have Macrium 7 free edition which I gather isn't supported any more. 
> 

I still use Macrium Reflect Free 7 and have it on a USB stick (you can do both
backup and restore from their Rescue Media). When making Rescue Media, you
can use WinPE5 or WinPE10 options, as both of those have USB3 support.
And WinPE10 as the flavor would be fine. Going out of support does not
affect the basic function of a "Full" backup.

While the media preparation process for making the Rescue Media includes
a "WinRE based method" for making Rescue Media, I haven't used that
since the program made a mistake, and mixed a 32 bit OS with some 64 bit materials
or vice versa. The WinPE method, even though it involves downloads,
just seemed a more solid method of making Rescue Media. You need Rescue Media
to do a Bare Metal restore later (in cases where the original C: is trashed).

Macrium had a problem back around Macrium 5 or Macrium 6, related to how
Microsoft manages $BITMAP or something. And that required an emergency patch.
That would be an example of how a Macrium 7 could "age out", if Microsoft
made more changes. But nothing like that has happened, so the Macrium 7 I have
here, continues to work just fine.

   Paul

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#16269

Chris wrote:
> 
> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
> path for hardware and software?
> 
> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
> 
> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
> use an unlicensed version of windows?
> 

Your win 10 licence can be used with win 11. And you can install it on 
most machines that are not compatible, especially if they are 212 models 
or newer. You can make a usb install stick using rufus and it will 
bypass the windows compatibility problems.

Take a look at elevenforums. There are tons of tutorials and threads 
addressing this issue.

https://www.elevenforum.com/questions/install-update-activate/

Good luck

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16270

On 13/01/2025 21:42, Chris wrote:
> 
> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
> path for hardware and software?
> 
> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
> 
> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
> use an unlicensed version of windows?
> 

The cheapest/simplest upgrade path is to use the same machine but to use 
the Windows 11 24H2 ISO file to upgrade. Even if your machine is not 
compatible, the command I'll give you below will upgrade your machine 
and the Windows 10 license will post no problems at all.

The method to upgrade is this:
1) Make a full backup of the hard disk to an external drive if possible 
or to a separate partition;

2) Download the full ISO from this official link:

<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11>

Scroll down and look for: "Download Windows 11 Disk Image (ISO) for x64 
devices"

You want to make sure to download the correct ISO. For English UK you 
need multi edition ISO. USA have their own ISO. This is important 
because you want to keep all your Apps and personal documents. Wrong ISO 
won't allow you to keep any of the Apps but personal docs will remain safe.

3) Now mount the ISO using Windows explorer and note down the drive 
letter in the location bar.

4) Launch cmd prompt as Administrator

5) run this command:

E:\setup /product server

This assumes that the drive in step 3 is E:\ but change to whatever you 
get on your system;

6) Just follow the online instructions and in about 30 minutes you'll 
have Windows 11 up and running.

7) I forgot to mention above that make sure Internet is disabled while 
you do this because you don't want updates to clog your machine.

8) When the system is upgraded and booted 2 or three times, you can go 
online and download the updates.

9) This will work for you because it worked on my potato machine. You 
have the full backup so you are not losing anything.

10) In step 5, although we are using the word server, you only get 
either home or professional version NOT SERVER so don't worry about it.

Good luck and post back.

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#16300

Windows 11 24H2 User <fvgtgfrf@juiklopjhy.com> wrote:
> On 13/01/2025 21:42, Chris wrote:
>> 
>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
>> path for hardware and software?
>> 
>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
>> 
>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>> 
> 
> The cheapest/simplest upgrade path is to use the same machine but to use 
> the Windows 11 24H2 ISO file to upgrade. Even if your machine is not 
> compatible, the command I'll give you below will upgrade your machine 
> and the Windows 10 license will post no problems at all.
> 
> The method to upgrade is this:
> 1) Make a full backup of the hard disk to an external drive if possible 
> or to a separate partition;
> 
> 2) Download the full ISO from this official link:
> 
> <https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows11>
> 
> Scroll down and look for: "Download Windows 11 Disk Image (ISO) for x64 
> devices"
> 
> You want to make sure to download the correct ISO. For English UK you 
> need multi edition ISO. USA have their own ISO. This is important 
> because you want to keep all your Apps and personal documents. Wrong ISO 
> won't allow you to keep any of the Apps but personal docs will remain safe.
> 
> 3) Now mount the ISO using Windows explorer and note down the drive 
> letter in the location bar.
> 
> 4) Launch cmd prompt as Administrator
> 
> 5) run this command:
> 
> E:\setup /product server
> 
> This assumes that the drive in step 3 is E:\ but change to whatever you 
> get on your system;
> 
> 6) Just follow the online instructions and in about 30 minutes you'll 
> have Windows 11 up and running.
> 
> 7) I forgot to mention above that make sure Internet is disabled while 
> you do this because you don't want updates to clog your machine.
> 
> 8) When the system is upgraded and booted 2 or three times, you can go 
> online and download the updates.
> 
> 9) This will work for you because it worked on my potato machine. You 
> have the full backup so you are not losing anything.
> 
> 10) In step 5, although we are using the word server, you only get 
> either home or professional version NOT SERVER so don't worry about it.
> 
> Good luck and post back.

Thanks for the clear instructions. Will give it a go when I have time.
Might be a couple of weeks. 

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#16276

On 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
> 
> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest upgrade
> path for hardware and software?
> 
> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
> 
> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
> use an unlicensed version of windows?
> 

I did what Win11 24H2 user did, except that no command line
is required. Just mount to ISO and run setup.exe. Stay offline.
Choose an update. It worked fine for me, despite TPM2 being
disabled. Worth a try.

   If you're the type who religiously updates then it might make
sense for you. I just did it out of curiosity, to see how salvageable
Win11 is. It's not too bad. I cleaned it up, removed Edge, installed
Classic Shell... Compared to Win10 there are just a few glitches
so far: The taskbar is a mess and it was hard to get quicklaunch
back. My utility to customize folders doesn't seem to be working.

   In general, MS have broken a few things, but basically it's just
Win10. They just picked a version and decided to start calling it
11, in order to force people to accept their crap. But Copilot
and the Apps are now gone on my system, with no problems.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#16278

Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest 
>> upgrade
>> path for hardware and software?
>>
>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
>>
>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>>
> 
> I did what Win11 24H2 user did, except that no command line
> is required. Just mount to ISO and run setup.exe. Stay offline.
> Choose an update. It worked fine for me, despite TPM2 being
> disabled. Worth a try.
> 
>    If you're the type who religiously updates then it might make
> sense for you. I just did it out of curiosity, to see how salvageable
> Win11 is. It's not too bad. I cleaned it up, removed Edge, installed
> Classic Shell... Compared to Win10 there are just a few glitches
> so far: The taskbar is a mess and it was hard to get quicklaunch
> back. My utility to customize folders doesn't seem to be working.
> 
>    In general, MS have broken a few things, but basically it's just
> Win10. They just picked a version and decided to start calling it
> 11, in order to force people to accept their crap. But Copilot
> and the Apps are now gone on my system, with no problems.
> 

It does take a while to pick through all the settings to adjust things 
to a sane choice, and turn off advertizing and rediculous "helpfull" 
stuff. Also need to cull rubbish programs you don't need or want.

There are several programs that can address the screwed up taskbar, so 
maybe you can find one you like.

And you're right, it's basically win 10 under the hood. They just added 
a lot of crapware, then renamed everything and moved everything around, 
but once you've gone through it, you'll realize  ... It's just win 10 
with a different color lipstick.

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#16279

On 1/13/2025 8:09 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:

> 
> It does take a while to pick through all the settings to adjust things 
> to a sane choice, and turn off advertizing and rediculous "helpfull" 
> stuff. Also need to cull rubbish programs you don't need or want.
> 
> There are several programs that can address the screwed up taskbar, so 
> maybe you can find one you like.
> 

    I did finally figure that one out. There's a program that I forget
the name of now. It puts a context menu on the taskbar, which
then provides the old Toolbars menu. From there I was able to get
a Quicklaunch bar. The other problem was that it was too high and
no longer adjustable. That turned out to be an option in the Registry.
One can set icon size and then the taskbar automaticaly sizes in
accordance.
   It's a but mysterious, though. Why did they break two such handy
things? It seems to be part of a gradual move toward blocking all
customizing, restricting software choice, and generally defining Windows
devices as MS property that we get to rent. I was stunned to see
the cacaphony of News and Interests having ads on it, along with
piles of nonsense headlines. I didn't know it had gone so depraved.
But it seems that virtually all the crap is removable and virtually all
customizing is still doable. It's just taking more work than it used to,
so that hardly anyone will do it.

    The one thing I haven't yet confronted is the folder windows that
are way too wide aand rangey. On WinXP I figured out how to make
all folders the same size. On Win7 they broke the whole thing, but I
figured out how to work with the new setup. Win10 brought still more
breakage, but it was doable. Win11? I'm not sure yet. My Win10 tools
don't seem to work.

> And you're right, it's basically win 10 under the hood. They just added 
> a lot of crapware, then renamed everything and moved everything around, 
> but once you've gone through it, you'll realize  ... It's just win 10 
> with a different color lipstick.
> 

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#16282

Newyana2 wrote on 1/13/25 8:48 PM:
> On 1/13/2025 8:09 PM, Hank Rogers wrote:
> 
>>
>> It does take a while to pick through all the settings to adjust things 
>> to a sane choice, and turn off advertizing and rediculous "helpfull" 
>> stuff. Also need to cull rubbish programs you don't need or want.
>>
>> There are several programs that can address the screwed up taskbar, so 
>> maybe you can find one you like.
>>
> 
>     I did finally figure that one out. There's a program that I forget
> the name of now. It puts a context menu on the taskbar, which
> then provides the old Toolbars menu. From there I was able to get
> a Quicklaunch bar. The other problem was that it was too high and
> no longer adjustable. That turned out to be an option in the Registry.
> One can set icon size and then the taskbar automaticaly sizes in
> accordance.
>    It's a but mysterious, though. Why did they break two such handy
> things? It seems to be part of a gradual move toward blocking all
> customizing, restricting software choice, and generally defining Windows
> devices as MS property that we get to rent. I was stunned to see
> the cacaphony of News and Interests having ads on it, along with
> piles of nonsense headlines. I didn't know it had gone so depraved.
> But it seems that virtually all the crap is removable and virtually all
> customizing is still doable. It's just taking more work than it used to,
> so that hardly anyone will do it.
> 
>     The one thing I haven't yet confronted is the folder windows that
> are way too wide aand rangey. On WinXP I figured out how to make
> all folders the same size. On Win7 they broke the whole thing, but I
> figured out how to work with the new setup. Win10 brought still more
> breakage, but it was doable. Win11? I'm not sure yet. My Win10 tools
> don't seem to work.
> 
>> And you're right, it's basically win 10 under the hood. They just added 
>> a lot of crapware, then renamed everything and moved everything around, 
>> but once you've gone through it, you'll realize  ... It's just win 10 
>> with a different color lipstick.
>>
> 
Yes, as you've found there are tweaks/utilities for the QL Bar on Win11.

QL demise/deperecation reasons
  - Old Vista era code retained in Win10 for backward compatibility
  - Based on integration with IE bits(also deprecated in Win11 even 
though Edge still supports limited IE mode).

Originally, I tweaked Win11 to have a QL Bar, but over time, didn't use 
it as much as the Win11 Task Bar...now, I just have the QL folder(that 
resides in the same location as in the past) as a folder pinned to the 
Start menu - there if needed since my Start Menu is organized in Groups 
for my use(Office, Apps, Utilities[3rd party], System[Windows utilities], 
multiple File Explorer drives.
  - My Win11 Task bar in addition to the Start button has all of programs 
I routinely used(atm 11 items, anything else is easily accessible when 
desired.

-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#16283

On 1/14/2025 5:28 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:

> Yes, as you've found there are tweaks/utilities for the QL Bar on Win11.
> 
> QL demise/deperecation reasons
>   - Old Vista era code retained in Win10 for backward compatibility
>   - Based on integration with IE bits(also deprecated in Win11 even 
> though Edge still supports limited IE mode).
> 

   That makes some sense in theory. I can see how they'd think
it was "progress" to remove more of IE. On the other hand, IE is
still fully there. It just can't be started from iexplore.exe without
swapping out the ieframe.dll files for older ones.

   And that doesn't explain why they decided to make the taskbar
non-sizable. I started with small icons and medium taskbar. The
taskbar was not adjustable with the mouse. As near as I can tell,
Win11 no longer allows 2-storey taskbars. One can only pick icon
size, and then only via a sectre Registry settings. Then the taskbar
theoretically adjusts. mine was buggy, but when I then set the
size to small in the Registry, the bar height fixed itself.

   Interestingly, I swapped out ieframe.dll files easily in Win10.
Win11 told me that Explorer was busy using the 64-bit version of
ieframe. Not a big deal, but I like to use IE as default browser and
then block it going online. It makes a quick, handy HTML reader for
local files and provides a way to block FF or Chromium from
jumping online without asking. An increasing number of companies
like to make the browser call home after software install, or they
provide a Help button but actually there is no help. It just calls the
browser to visit their website. With my IE arrangment their tricks
don't work. IE just jumps up and says it can't access the site,
because my firewall is not letting it through.

> Originally, I tweaked Win11 to have a QL Bar, but over time, didn't use 
> it as much as the Win11 Task Bar...

   I don't think of them as separate. QL is part of the taskbar. It's
just more compact than "pinning" and isn't connected with open
windows. So I have the shortcuts on one side, with open windows
"badges" clearly separate. It's also nice because some software,
including my own, still provides an installer option to create a QL
shortcut.

     I don't like having open windows tied to shortcut icons.
It's confusing and poor design. A shortcut is a shortcut. Making
it serve double duty as some kind of window patriarch doesn't
actually make any sense. I find that it ends up requiring me to
do a kind of micro-analysis every time I deal with the taskbar.
It doesn't flow. I use my computer a lot. For me it's worthwhile
to make everything flow so that I don't have to stop and pay
attention to functionality. It's like reversing water taps or installing
a storm door with the wrong swing. They still work, but each
requires special treatment.

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#16313

Newyana2 wrote on 1/14/25 6:43 AM:
> On 1/14/2025 5:28 AM, ...w¡ñ§±¤ñ wrote:
> 
>> Yes, as you've found there are tweaks/utilities for the QL Bar on Win11.
>>
>> QL demise/deperecation reasons
>>   - Old Vista era code retained in Win10 for backward compatibility
>>   - Based on integration with IE bits(also deprecated in Win11 even 
>> though Edge still supports limited IE mode).
>>
> 
>    That makes some sense in theory. I can see how they'd think
> it was "progress" to remove more of IE. 

As we all know, the theory behind what MSFT thinks/does/ is a mixture of 
variation - deprecation, testing in the consumer market, cost 
reduction(expense, labor, support), nomenclature, internal politics(power 
- development vs. marketing),  etc.  The latter - impacting mearly 
everything in the released product since Windows 8.0.
  - i.e. questioning why in the consumer arena has been reasonably the 
same for years => futile exercise and knowing that answers to those 
questions are slim to negligible.






-- 
...w¡ñ§±¤ñ

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#16294

On Mon, 13 Jan 2025 19:09:36 -0600, Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>Newyana2 wrote:
>> On 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>>>
>>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest 
>>> upgrade
>>> path for hardware and software?
>>>
>>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
>>>
>>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>>>
>> 
>> I did what Win11 24H2 user did, except that no command line
>> is required. Just mount to ISO and run setup.exe. Stay offline.
>> Choose an update. It worked fine for me, despite TPM2 being
>> disabled. Worth a try.
>> 
>>    If you're the type who religiously updates then it might make
>> sense for you. I just did it out of curiosity, to see how salvageable
>> Win11 is. It's not too bad. I cleaned it up, removed Edge, installed
>> Classic Shell... Compared to Win10 there are just a few glitches
>> so far: The taskbar is a mess and it was hard to get quicklaunch
>> back. My utility to customize folders doesn't seem to be working.
>> 
>>    In general, MS have broken a few things, but basically it's just
>> Win10. They just picked a version and decided to start calling it
>> 11, in order to force people to accept their crap. But Copilot
>> and the Apps are now gone on my system, with no problems.
>> 
>
>It does take a while to pick through all the settings to adjust things 
>to a sane choice, and turn off advertizing and rediculous "helpfull" 
>stuff. Also need to cull rubbish programs you don't need or want.
>
>There are several programs that can address the screwed up taskbar, so 
>maybe you can find one you like.
>
>And you're right, it's basically win 10 under the hood. They just added 
>a lot of crapware, then renamed everything and moved everything around, 
>but once you've gone through it, you'll realize  ... It's just win 10 
>with a different color lipstick.


Yes, I agree. With Microsoft Windows as well as with other vendors and
software products, they always have a choice between releasing changes
with a new version number or as an update to the existing version. 

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#16280

On 14/01/2025 00:45, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 1/13/2025 4:42 PM, Chris wrote:
>>
>> So 2025 will be win10 upgrade year, so what's the cheapest/simplest 
>> upgrade
>> path for hardware and software?
>>
>> I have a home desktop PC based around a Coffee Lake i3 which isn't win11
>> compatible. It's not often used, but I don't want to get rid of it so
>> what's the sweet spot cpu/mobo these days? I'd like to keep the RAM,
>> SSD/NVMe, PSU, etc.
>>
>> Can I transfer my win10 pro license key to win11? What do I lose if just
>> use an unlicensed version of windows?
>>
> 
> I did what Win11 24H2 user did, except that no command line
> is required. Just mount to ISO and run setup.exe. Stay offline.
> Choose an update. It worked fine for me, despite TPM2 being
> disabled. Worth a try.
> 
>    If you're the type who religiously updates then it might make
> sense for you. I just did it out of curiosity, to see how salvageable
> Win11 is. It's not too bad. I cleaned it up, removed Edge, installed
> Classic Shell... Compared to Win10 there are just a few glitches
> so far: The taskbar is a mess and it was hard to get quicklaunch
> back. My utility to customize folders doesn't seem to be working.
> 
>    In general, MS have broken a few things, but basically it's just
> Win10. They just picked a version and decided to start calling it
> 11, in order to force people to accept their crap. But Copilot
> and the Apps are now gone on my system, with no problems.
> 

How did you get the Quick Launch back?

-- 
Regards
wasbit

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#16284

On 1/14/2025 4:58 AM, wasbit wrote:

> 
> How did you get the Quick Launch back?
> 

Slightly complicated, but here goes.

   I installed the free Explorer Patcher. Then I installed
FreeLaunchBar. I got a context menu on the taskbar but
it seemed to be useless. The trouble was that I couldn't
find help for either of these things. I tried installing FLB
again. Windows started strobing. I regretted how long it
had been since my last disk image backup....

   On reboot it was OK. Then I finally found some people
talking about how to do it. I think the FreeLaunchBar
thing was unnecessary. E-P seems to be what adds the
context menu and makes it work. Once you see the
context menu, select the top item to pick taskbar view.
Pick the E-P version. Reboot. You should now have the
old Toolbars item on the context menu. Then you just
proceed like earlier Windows: Name your new toolbar
Quicklaunch and point it to the QL folder:
AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Quick Launch

   I'm telling you the whole story because I haven't actually
uninstalled FLB yet. So I THINK I have the facts straight,
but haven't yet confirmed that it all works without FLB.

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