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Editing PDF files

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  Editing PDF files "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-29 21:24 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-29 20:45 +0100
      Re: Editing PDF files knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-29 17:13 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:43 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 12:49 -0700
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-09-30 12:21 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:20 +0100
          Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:44 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 12:07 -0700
          Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:46 +0200
            Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 18:10 +0100
              Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:35 -0400
              Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 20:34 +0200
                Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 06:07 -1100
                  Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-02 19:49 +0200
                    Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 08:24 -1100
                      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-02 21:59 +0200
                        Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 20:11 -0400
            Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 11:46 -0700
              Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 21:39 +0200
                Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:18 -0700
    Re: Editing PDF files PDF Files <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 21:05 +0100
    Re: Editing PDF files Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2026-09-29 18:26 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 16:51 -0700
        Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:48 +0200
          Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 11:47 -0700
            Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 21:40 +0200
              Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:19 -0700
      Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:27 +0100
        Re: Editing PDF files T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-29 20:56 -0700
          Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:50 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 00:34 -0400
    Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-29 20:15 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-09-30 01:30 +0100
        Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-30 00:26 -0400
        Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 12:55 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2026-09-29 22:45 -0500
      Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 10:23 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:01 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-30 00:23 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:05 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 18:53 +0100
      Re: Editing PDF files "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-10-01 17:40 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 14:09 -0400
          Re: Editing PDF files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 18:21 +0000
            Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 20:30 +0200
              Re: Editing PDF files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-01 18:58 +0000
                Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 21:42 +0200
              Re: Editing PDF files knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2026-10-01 21:35 -0400
                Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-02 11:56 +0200
              Re: Editing PDF files "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-10-02 16:12 +0200
                Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-02 19:50 +0200
                  Re: Editing PDF files "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2026-10-02 20:57 +0200
                    Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-02 21:34 +0200
                      Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 20:19 -0400
              Re: Editing PDF files Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-02 17:54 +0000
    Re: Editing PDF files Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 06:53 +0000
      Re: Editing PDF files Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 07:34 +0000
      Re: Editing PDF files Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-30 13:58 +0100
        Re: Editing PDF files knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 09:30 -0400
          Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 10:36 -0400
            Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 06:29 -1100
          Re: Editing PDF files PDF Files <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-09-30 18:17 +0100
            Re: Editing PDF files knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2026-09-30 16:07 -0400
            Re: Editing PDF files "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-01 01:59 +0100
              Re: Editing PDF files Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-10-01 06:57 +0000
          Re: Editing PDF files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-30 18:26 +0000
        Re: Editing PDF files VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2026-09-30 13:25 -0500
          Re: Editing PDF files Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-09-30 18:39 +0000
          Re: Editing PDF files Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 20:26 +0000
    Re: Editing PDF files Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-09-30 10:48 +0100
      Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-09-30 10:50 -0400
        Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:11 +0200
          Re: Editing PDF files "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-10-01 13:44 -0400
    Re: Editing PDF files Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2026-09-30 11:14 +0100
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:12 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files Ammammata <ammammata@tiscali.it> - 2026-09-30 12:24 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-09-30 16:08 -0400
      Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 13:13 +0200
        Re: Editing PDF files Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-01 09:52 -0400
          Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-01 20:33 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files Arkadiusz 'Black Fox' Artyszuk <asdfadsasdfa@atomicmail.io> - 2026-10-02 12:41 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-02 05:37 -1100
      Re: Editing PDF files ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) - 2026-10-06 14:54 +0000
        Re: Editing PDF files "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-06 18:14 +0200
    Re: Editing PDF files  [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-04 11:42 +0100
      Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-04 08:04 -0400
        Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2026-10-04 16:10 +0100
          Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-04 17:55 +0000
            Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-10-04 14:05 -0400
              Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-04 17:09 -0300
                Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-04 22:31 +0200
                  Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-04 23:50 -0300
        Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-04 21:21 +0100
        Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-05 11:25 +0100
          Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> - 2026-10-05 12:40 +0100
            Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-05 13:34 -0300
              Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-06 15:35 +0100
                Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-06 12:39 -0300
            Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2026-10-06 10:43 +0000
              Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-10-06 13:18 +0200
            Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-06 15:31 +0100
          Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-10-05 12:36 -0400
            Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2026-10-06 16:05 +0100
              Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] "....winston" <winstonmvp@gmail.com> - 2026-10-06 11:35 -0400
              Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] MegaNZ <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-06 16:40 +0100
                Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> - 2026-10-06 23:29 -0300
      Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?] MegaNZ <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-10-05 04:20 +0100
    Re: Editing PDF files Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2026-10-04 17:52 +0100

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#35545

On 2026-10-01 15:52, Paul wrote:
> On Thu, 10/1/2026 7:13 AM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> On 2026-09-30 22:08, Paul wrote:
>>> On Tue, 9/29/2026 3:24 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.
>>>>
>>>> Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.
>>>>
>>>> The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if there is a better or easier method.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This post, is just for attempting to detect what kind of content
>>> is in the file in question. Some people are questioning whether
>>> the PDF is a "plain read-only PDF" which comes out of "Print To PDF"
>>> efforts. Or whether it is an AcroForm, and is actually designed
>>> to be filled out in a web browser.
>>
>> I'll find out in about a week.
> 
> Your pdfinfo post, seems to show it is a plain PDF.
> And, it seems rather large. At that size it could
> have images in it.

Wait, that's a PDF of mine, not of hers. I created it, from a web page I 
was reading, in FFx.

The intention was to see a sample of pdfinfo output for you.


-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#35595

Carlos E.R. wrote:

> A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.

The problem isn't the PDF itself, but the use of this format to exchange 
editable content that is actively being developed. Whether this is the 
result of the employer’s incompetence or deliberate malice - or both - 
is not entirely clear. It would be even more inefficient to perform this 
task by exchanging documents in PNG or JPG format. If a request to 
change the format is unsuccessful, sending the edited text back as an 
*image-based PDF* should prompt the employer to consider switching to a 
format such as ODF, DOCX, or TXT...

> Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit 
> and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can 
> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor 
> she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does 
> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.

Employees are therefore forced to find a solution to this problem on 
their own (and at their own expense).
For example, you can check out KillerPDF - a free, open-source service 
licensed under GPLv3 that doesn’t require an account or subscription - 
https://killerpdf.net/
The advantage of this solution is the efficient export of documents to 
PNG format, which can then be just as ‶politely” sent as an Image-Based 
PDF to the other party, along with silent wishes for pleasant, 
productive, and efficient work.

> The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to 
> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.

I don't think we'll be able to get out of this mess. A PDF file intended 
for further editing would have to be created in so-called ‶hybrid mode” 
with an embedded file - such as an ODF file - as LibreOffice is capable 
of doing. If the PDF is created using an emulated printer, as VanguardLH 
mentioned in the news:t0li3i269z7j$.dlg@v.nguard.lh , then any attempt 
to retrieve the original document will be like trying to get a whole egg 
back from scrambled eggs that have already been cooked.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist making that silly comparison. ;-)

> I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

It seems that the only effective method is to convince the other person 
to change the file format. This can be achieved politely through a 
simple conversation and a reasonable request, or - using a slightly 
‶sneaky” way - by causing them trouble by intentionally sending only a 
scanned document or a Image-Based PDF.

-- 
Regards
Arkadiusz 'Black Fox' Artyszuk

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#35618

Carlos E.R. wrote:
> A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.
> 
> Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit 
> and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can 
> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor 
> she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does 
> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.
> 
> The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to 
> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.
> 
> I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

Hi Carlos, 

I apologize that I haven't looked at this question of yours until now.

I belatedly see it's already a long thread which I haven't read & which may
have new solutions, but in the past, we've compiled this list of editors.
 C:\software\editors\pspdf\{tested known free ps/pdf editors}
    <https://i.postimg.cc/jSNb7bkF/pspdf.jpg>
 [x] Print booklet format (pdfbook, pdfbooklet, enbooken, acrobat reader)
 [x] Add or concatenate pages (pdftk, acrobat payware)
 [x] Add signature (Adobe Reader Fill-and-sign sign-yourself tool)
 [x] Archive sites (wkhtmltopdf, Acrobat payware,fastone scroll capture)
 [x] Compress PDFs (ImageMagick, PDFgear, rlvision)
 [x] Convert PDF to MSOffice (PDFgear, Calibre for MS Word only)
 [x] Convert PDF to MSWord (Calibre, PDFgear)
 [x] Convert PDF to epub format (Calibre)
 [x] Convert PDF to PostScript (Calibre, Poppler)
 [x] Converts PDFs to HTML (poppler)
 [x] Convert PDF to raster (Imagemagick,GhostScript,Poppler-pdftocairo)
 [x] Convert PDF to vector (Inkscape, Poppler-pdftocairo)
 [x] Converts PDFs to PPM/PGM/PBM image formats (poppler)
 [x] Add text to existing pdf (IV or Paint.NET plugins + Ghostscript)
 [x] Minor text editing (Adobe Reader commenting, PDF-XChange Editor)
 [x] Generate PDF using markup language (LaTeX via pdfTeX or LuaTeX)
 [x] Embeds files into a PDF as attachments (poppler) 
 [x] Extract images (PDFExchangeEditor,PDF Shaper,PDFgear,poppler,muPDF)
 [x] Extract text (poppler) or mine textual & metadata (pdfminersix)
 [x] Extracts embedded files (attachments) from a PDF (poppler)
 [x] Fastest PDF readers (Sumatra or Foxit)
 [x] Globally search & replace PDF text (Libre Office)
 [x] List fonts used in a PDF (poppler)
 [x] Metadata display on command line (poppler)
 [x] Metadata removal (LibreOffice Writer, PDFgear offline)
 [x] OCR, PDF-Xchange, freeOCR (paperfile.net), GOCR (jocr.sourceforge.net)
 [x] Offline encrypt PDF with a password (pdfencrypt)
 [x] Online shrink PDF <adobe.com/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html>
 [x] PDF text to audio file (Balabolka)
 [x] Delete pages (pdfsam, pdftk, PDF-XChange Editor, PDF Arranger)
 [x] Renumber pages (Acrobat Reader)
 [x] Reorder pages (pdftk, PDF-XChange Editor, PDF Arranger)
 [x] Rotate pages (pdftk, mutool, PDF-XChange Editor, PDF Arranger)
 [x] Remove restrictions (Ghostscript,Ghostview,ps2edit,pdfwrite,pdf2djvu)
 [x] Separates a PDF into individual pages (poppler)
 [x] Split PDFs (PDFgear, Poppler, Ghostscript) 
 [x] Merge PDFs (pdfsam, pdftk, PDFgear, Poppler, Ghostscript) 
 [x] Tile PDFs (i.e., to print large posters) (Posterazor)
 [x] Redact sensitive information (PDF-Xchange Editor, Adobe Acrobat Pro)
 [x] Add watermarks or background layers (pdftk, PDFgear, PDFsam)
 [x] Add bookmarks/TOC (jpdfbookmarks, LaTeX(hyperref), PDF-ExchangeEditor
 [x] Flatten form fields (Ghostscript, Acrobat Pro)
 [x] Embed audio/video into PDFs (Acrobat Pro, LaTeX (media9 package)
 [x] Generate PDF from Markdown or HTML (Pandoc, wkhtmltopdf)
 [x] Create fillable forms (LibreOffice Draw, Scribus, LaTeX (AcroTeX))
 [x] Batch rename, convert, split, etc. (PDFsam, Poppler, Ghostscript)
 [x] Extract annotations/comments (PDF-XChange Editor, Adobe Acrobat)
 [x] Convert to OCR (Tesseract OCR, PDF-Xchange, ABBYY FineReader)
 [x] Add hyperlinks & buttons (LibreOffice,LaTeX,PDF-XChange Editor)
 [x] Compare two PDFs side-by-side (DiffPDF, Acrobat Pro)
 [x] Digitally sign with certificate-based signature (Foxit PDF Editor)
 [x] Free PDF samples 
     <https://examplefile.com/document/pdf>
     <https://onlinetestcase.com/pdf-file/>
     <https://sample-files.com/documents/pdf/>
     <https://graydart.com/sample/documents/pdf>
     <https://freetestdata.com/document-files/pdf/>
     <https://getsamplefiles.com/sample-document-files/pdf>
     <https://learningcontainer.com/sample-pdf-files-for-testing/>
 [?] What other tasks do you do to edit or modify a PDF file?

My first suggestion? 
 1. Calibre to MS Word 
 2. Edit in MS Word
 3. Save to PDF (in MS Word)

There are *many* other solutions, but, for a noob, I'd try that first.
-- 
Only the best of the Usenet posters can add value in every single article.

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#35851

Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote or quoted:
>There are *many* other solutions, but, for a noob, I'd try that first.

  I wonder whether this is about filling out a PDF form or 
  really editing arbitrary parts of PDFs.

  Usually when someone wants some info, he asks to fill out
  /fields/ in a PDF, not to "edit" the PDF. A requirement to
  "edit" a PDF would be strange. Some office suites claim
  to be able to edit PDF files.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#35859

On 2026-10-06 16:54, Stefan Ram wrote:
> Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote or quoted:
>> There are *many* other solutions, but, for a noob, I'd try that first.
> 
>    I wonder whether this is about filling out a PDF form or
>    really editing arbitrary parts of PDFs.
> 
>    Usually when someone wants some info, he asks to fill out
>    /fields/ in a PDF, not to "edit" the PDF. A requirement to
>    "edit" a PDF would be strange. Some office suites claim
>    to be able to edit PDF files.

Yes, I am waiting to get a sample PDF.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#35716 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

In article <osftomx8qd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, robin_listas@es.invalid 
says...
>
>A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.
>
>Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit 
>and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can 
>directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor 
>she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does 
>not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.
>
>The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to 
>a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.
>
>I wonder if there is a better or easier method.

Side question (having already offered suggestions):

What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?

-- 
--
Phil, London

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#35719 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

On Sun, 10/4/2026 6:42 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <osftomx8qd.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>, robin_listas@es.invalid 
> says...
>>
>> A friend (a teacher) has a problem with PDF files.
>>
>> Management sends her files in PDF format which she is supposed to edit 
>> and fill with names and data and send back. I asked chatgpt and Word can 
>> directly edit PDF files, with some limitations. I don't have word (nor 
>> she unless she pays it herlself), so I can't try myself. Management does 
>> not supply the employees with software nor laptops. Some cheek.
>>
>> The Libre Office method is open in LO Draw, select the text, and copy to 
>> a new LO Writer document. But each line is separate, text doesn't flow.
>>
>> I wonder if there is a better or easier method.
> 
> Side question (having already offered suggestions):
> 
> What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?
> 

I tried manually analyzing the market, but not even reviews of software
(pitiful reviews) list capabilities in any meaningful way. I punted and
the shredder mainly relied on some other AI-prepared material to
answer the question.

Generally speaking, you are correct. Foxit can reflow a text paragraph,
which is not a native representation inside a PDF. As far as I know, a
line of text is the quanta in there. Then you have the problem of editing
text, when the embedded subset font inside the document is missing letters,
and that means the tool has to do something about the font tables.
ATMFM (Adobe Type Manager) used to take care of that, using generic
approximations of fonts, but that doesn't seem to have any obvious successor.
Windows used to have some version of that.

***************************** CoPilot Question *****************************

The PDF market seems a bit hard to analyze. There seem to be
PDF editors, but it is not clear what kinds of elements
they can modify. Just getting a list of PDF editors is
difficult, editors that actually provide editing functions
(move a text string on the screen). The Wikipedia list
did not seem to be that complete.

What do you see as PDF editors in your list of them ?

***************************** coPilot Answer *******************************

The short answer: **a true PDF editor is one that can modify *existing* PDF objects**
text objects, images, vector shapes, annotations, form fields—*without* converting the
PDF to another format first. Most tools marketed as "PDF editors" are actually
**annotation tools** that cannot move or change existing text. The market is confusing
because vendors blur this distinction.

Below is a **grounded list of actual PDF editors**-tools that can *natively* edit
existing PDF content-based on the sources you saw. I also highlight what kinds of
elements they can modify, because that’s the part that’s usually hidden.

---

##   True PDF Editors (can modify existing text objects)
 These tools are confirmed by documentation or reviews to support **real content
 editing**, not just annotations.

### **Adobe Acrobat Pro**
- Full text editing (modify, move, reflow paragraphs)
- Edit images, replace images, move objects
- Advanced OCR --> scanned PDFs become editable text
- Form creation, redaction, accessibility tools
- Most complete feature set; industry reference
  ( https://www.logicalrefer.com/articles/best-pdf-editor-software-2026/ )

### **Foxit PDF Editor / Editor+**
- Full text editing with explicit text reflow (rare outside Acrobat)
- Object editing: move/resize text boxes, images, shapes
- Strong OCR
- Enterprise‑oriented performance
  ( https://www.brandjet.ai/blog/best-pdf-editors/ )

### **Nitro PDF Pro / Nitro PDF Standard**
- Full text editing
- Strong OCR implementation (per documentation)
- Business workflow features (signing, analytics)

### **ABBYY FineReader PDF**
- One of the best OCR engines; converts scanned PDFs into editable text layers
- Full text editing once OCR is applied
- Very strong for scanned documents

### **PDF‑XChange Editor / Editor Plus**
- Full text editing
- Editable OCR layer (you can correct recognized text)
- Very deep feature set at low cost

### **PDFelement**
- Full text editing
- OCR with AI features (Lumi assistant)
- Broad feature coverage
  ( https://www.techwench.com/best-pdf-editors-2026/ )

### **PDF Expert (Mac/iPad)**
- Full text editing for digital PDFs
- **No OCR** --> cannot edit scanned PDFs without external OCR

### **UPDF Pro**
- Full text editing
- OCR available
- Lower-cost alternative

### **PDFgear (Free)**
- Completely free
- Full text editing + OCR (except some scan limitations)

### **Sejda (Online/Desktop)**
- Can edit existing text in *digital* PDFs
- **Cannot edit scanned text** (no OCR editing)

---

##   Annotation‑Only Tools (cannot modify existing text)
These tools are often mislabeled as “PDF editors,” but they **cannot move
or change existing text objects**. They only add overlays.

### Examples:
- **Smallpdf** (browser-based) – annotation + basic edits, but not full text editing
- **iLovePDF** – broad toolkit, but editing is mostly annotation/overlay
- **PDFescape** – browser-based form filling + annotation; no real text editing
- **Preview (macOS)** – annotation + simple markup; cannot edit existing text
- **PDFsam Basic** – page manipulation only (split/merge)
- **Xodo** – excellent annotation, not real editing
- **Canva PDF Editor** – visually rich overlays; not true PDF object editing
  (https://www.techwench.com/best-pdf-editors-2026/)
  (https://www.guideflow.com/blog/pdf-editors)
  (https://scanjet.app/blog/best-pdf-editor/)

---

##   Why the market is confusing
The key distinction—**editing vs. annotating** - is rarely made clear.
As one source puts it:

"A true PDF editor must be able to change content that already exists inside
 a PDF... plenty of apps marketed as PDF editors are annotation tools."

This is why Wikipedia lists are incomplete: they mix annotation tools,
converters, and true editors without distinguishing capabilities.

---

##  What “real editing” actually means in PDF terms
A true PDF editor can manipulate these internal PDF objects:

- **Text objects**: move, delete, change font, reflow paragraphs
- **Images**: replace, move, resize
- **Vector graphics**: lines, shapes, fills
- **Form fields**: create, modify, script
- **Annotations**: edit existing ones, not just add new
- **Structure tree**: tags for accessibility (rare; Acrobat does this)
- **OCR text layers**: correct recognized text (PDF‑XChange, ABBYY)

Most "editors" only add new objects on top of the page (annotations),
which is why they cannot fix typos or move existing text.

---

##  If you want to *move a text string on the screen*  <=== [this is not reflow]
Only the following reliably support this:

- **Adobe Acrobat Pro**
- **Foxit PDF Editor**
- **PDF‑XChange Editor**
- **PDFelement**
- **Nitro PDF Pro**
- **PDFgear (free)**
- **UPDF Pro**
- **PDF Expert** (digital PDFs only)

Everything else is annotation-only.
***************************** End: coPilot Answer *******************************

   Paul

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#35729 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

On 2026/10/4 13:4:44, Paul wrote:
> On Sun, 10/4/2026 6:42 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
[]
>> Side question (having already offered suggestions):
>>
>> What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?
[]
Followed by a well-phrased CoPilot question, and what looked to me to be
a very intelligently put together answer - clear explanation of the
difference between editing and just annotating, and a detailed list of
the capabilities of each candidate, of each type.

(I remember the name ABBYY, as something that came with a scanner - I
think it didn't claim anything to do with PDFs [other than perhaps the
ability to create one], being mainly an OCR with some ability to edit
the results; at the time - quite a lot of years ago - it seemed quite
good, especially for something provided free.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Personally, I don't like the Senate idea, I don't like the idea of
having to elect another bunch of overpaid incompetents. I don't like
the idea of having wholesale appointments by the PM of the day for
domination of the second chamber. I like anachronism. I like the idea
of a bunch of unelected congenital idiots getting in the way of a bunch
of conmen. - Charles F. Hankel, 1998-3-19.

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#35736 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

In alt.comp.os.windows-11 J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
> On 2026/10/4 13:4:44, Paul wrote:
> > On Sun, 10/4/2026 6:42 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> []
> >> Side question (having already offered suggestions):
> >>
> >> What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?
> []
> Followed by a well-phrased CoPilot question, and what looked to me to be
> a very intelligently put together answer - clear explanation of the
> difference between editing and just annotating, and a detailed list of
> the capabilities of each candidate, of each type.
> 
> (I remember the name ABBYY, as something that came with a scanner - I
> think it didn't claim anything to do with PDFs [other than perhaps the
> ability to create one], being mainly an OCR with some ability to edit
> the results; at the time - quite a lot of years ago - it seemed quite
> good, especially for something provided free.)

  I indeed still have ABBYY FineReader 6.0 Sprint, which was supplied
with my EPSON PERFECTION V30 scanner [1].

  AFAIK (just checked te Help again), you are correct that it does not
process PDFs, but images, i.e JPEG, PNG, BMP, TIFF, etc. (or gets its
data fed directly from the scanner software).

  Of course, you can scan a PDF and then feed the scan to it.

[1] IIRC, I helped someone (you?) who had lost (part of?) their scanner
software.

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#35737 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

On Sun, 10/4/2026 1:55 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> In alt.comp.os.windows-11 J. P. Gilliver <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
>> On 2026/10/4 13:4:44, Paul wrote:
>>> On Sun, 10/4/2026 6:42 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> []
>>>> Side question (having already offered suggestions):
>>>>
>>>> What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?
>> []
>> Followed by a well-phrased CoPilot question, and what looked to me to be
>> a very intelligently put together answer - clear explanation of the
>> difference between editing and just annotating, and a detailed list of
>> the capabilities of each candidate, of each type.
>>
>> (I remember the name ABBYY, as something that came with a scanner - I
>> think it didn't claim anything to do with PDFs [other than perhaps the
>> ability to create one], being mainly an OCR with some ability to edit
>> the results; at the time - quite a lot of years ago - it seemed quite
>> good, especially for something provided free.)
> 
>   I indeed still have ABBYY FineReader 6.0 Sprint, which was supplied
> with my EPSON PERFECTION V30 scanner [1].
> 
>   AFAIK (just checked te Help again), you are correct that it does not
> process PDFs, but images, i.e JPEG, PNG, BMP, TIFF, etc. (or gets its
> data fed directly from the scanner software).
> 
>   Of course, you can scan a PDF and then feed the scan to it.
> 
> [1] IIRC, I helped someone (you?) who had lost (part of?) their scanner
> software.
> 

Didn't the ABBYY product have password cracking for PDF ?
I think that's one reason people bought a copy.

   Paul

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#35741 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

Paul wrote:
> Didn't the ABBYY product have password cracking for PDF ?
> I think that's one reason people bought a copy.

Long ago, like really long ago, I posted a tutorial for password removal.
That's not the same as cracking, but the effect is the same per document.

Essentially, you edit the PDF in a program that doesn't respect the passwd.
Voila! Save it and there's no password. 

Dunno if something that simple still works though, as it was just too easy.
I used GSView and Ghostscript, at the time, but dunno if that still works.

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#35743 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

On 2026-10-04 22:09, Maria Sophia wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> Didn't the ABBYY product have password cracking for PDF ?
>> I think that's one reason people bought a copy.
> 
> Long ago, like really long ago, I posted a tutorial for password removal.
> That's not the same as cracking, but the effect is the same per document.
> 
> Essentially, you edit the PDF in a program that doesn't respect the passwd.
> Voila! Save it and there's no password.
> 
> Dunno if something that simple still works though, as it was just too easy.
> I used GSView and Ghostscript, at the time, but dunno if that still works.

No, AFAIR it was some kind of bug or misfeature.

-- 
Cheers,
        Carlos E.R.
        ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺.

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#35754 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

Carlos E. R. wrote:
>> Dunno if something that simple still works though, as it was just too easy.
>> I used GSView and Ghostscript, at the time, but dunno if that still works.
> 
> No, AFAIR it was some kind of bug or misfeature.

Actually, as I recall (as it was long ago!) the password needed was for
things like copying and/or printing, which was too easy to circumvent.

For that, Ghostscript's pdfwrite mechanism would rewrite the PDF into a
brand new file, rather than merely editing the original in place. 
 <https://www.ghostscript.com/releases/>

What you're talking about, and which I forgot to make the distinction for, 
is the encryption password, which is different than for the permissions.

One other trick that is just too easy that we may as well discuss is that
we can show in the clear those passwords which show up as "dots" using 
 <https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/bulletspassview.zip>
But that is likely too easy to work for anything in the Adobe PDF realm.
-- 
I avoid complex solutions when a simpler one already solves known issues.

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#35742 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

In article <119tfct$3sfpm$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.invalid 
says...
>
>On Sun, 10/4/2026 6:42 AM, Philip Herlihy wrote:
>> 
>> What's the best *paid* pdf editor?  Foxit?
>> 
>


[LOTS OF GOOD STUFF...]

Most helpful - thanks!


-- 
--
Phil, London

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#35770 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

In article <119tfct$3sfpm$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.invalid 
says...
>##  If you want to *move a text string on the screen*  <=== [this is not reflow]
>Only the following reliably support this:
>
>- **Adobe Acrobat Pro**
>- **Foxit PDF Editor**
>- **PDF-XChange Editor**
>- **PDFelement**
>- **Nitro PDF Pro**
>- **PDFgear (free)**
>- **UPDF Pro**
>- **PDF Expert** (digital PDFs only)
>
>Everything else is annotation-only.
>
>

With the exception of PDFGear (which is free, and really very good), all 
of these have expensive annual subscriptions, which is something I 
avoid.  I don't feel cheated if I've shelled out for a lifetime license 
and don't use it much, but that's intolerable with a subscription.

What I actually want is something that will extract the transactions 
from bank statements (notoriously chaotically formatted internally) and 
export them to Excel.  I'm currently playing with Power Query, but it's 
laborious due to the irregular internal structure of the documents.

-- 
--
Phil, London

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#35774 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

On 05/10/2026 11:25, Philip Herlihy wrote:
> In article <119tfct$3sfpm$1@dont-email.me>, nospam@needed.invalid
> says...
>> ##  If you want to *move a text string on the screen*  <=== [this is not reflow]
>> Only the following reliably support this:
>>
>> - **Adobe Acrobat Pro**
>> - **Foxit PDF Editor**
>> - **PDF-XChange Editor**
>> - **PDFelement**
>> - **Nitro PDF Pro**
>> - **PDFgear (free)**
>> - **UPDF Pro**
>> - **PDF Expert** (digital PDFs only)
>>
>> Everything else is annotation-only.
>>
>>
> 
> With the exception of PDFGear (which is free, and really very good), all
> of these have expensive annual subscriptions, which is something I
> avoid.  I don't feel cheated if I've shelled out for a lifetime license
> and don't use it much, but that's intolerable with a subscription.
> 
> What I actually want is something that will extract the transactions
> from bank statements (notoriously chaotically formatted internally) and
> export them to Excel.  I'm currently playing with Power Query, but it's
> laborious due to the irregular internal structure of the documents.
> 
Have you checked which option(s) your bank offers for downloads? Many 
now provide alternatives to pdf specifically to facilitate importing 
data into spreadsheets or accounting software.

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#35789 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

MikeS wrote:
>> With the exception of PDFGear (which is free, and really very good), all
>> of these have expensive annual subscriptions, which is something I
>> avoid.  I don't feel cheated if I've shelled out for a lifetime license
>> and don't use it much, but that's intolerable with a subscription.
>> 
>> What I actually want is something that will extract the transactions
>> from bank statements (notoriously chaotically formatted internally) and
>> export them to Excel.  I'm currently playing with Power Query, but it's
>> laborious due to the irregular internal structure of the documents.
>> 
> Have you checked which option(s) your bank offers for downloads? Many 
> now provide alternatives to pdf specifically to facilitate importing 
> data into spreadsheets or accounting software.

Calibre will convert a normal PDF to RTF or HTML or Text or MS Word, etc.,
where you might be able to get that to csv and then to Excel if you want.

But maybe it's just better to use a table extractor such as Tabula (free)
or Camelot which are designed to pull tables out of PDFs into CSV/Excel.
-- 
Knowledge is best shared, like Italian pizza & German beer, among friends.

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#35848 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

In article <11a0jhs$13us$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>, 
mariasophia@comprehension.com says...
>Calibre will convert a normal PDF to RTF or HTML or Text or MS Word, etc.,
>where you might be able to get that to csv and then to Excel if you want.
>
>But maybe it's just better to use a table extractor such as Tabula (free)
>or Camelot which are designed to pull tables out of PDFs into CSV/Excel.
>
>

Thanks for this.  I've played with Tabula, which is quite impressive.  
However, like a lot of bank statement PDFs I've examined the main 
problem is that the internal structure is hideously complex, and while 
Tabula is an option, the output will still require quite a lot of 
cleaning-up.  I'm currently exploring using Power Query, though which 
will end up with the least work is still open.

I did try asking CoPilot to do one for me, and it did it perfectly and 
effortlessly.  However, the owner of these statements doesn't want any 
of this personal information to be shared with any AI engine.  So the 
third option we're looking at is redacting the files and then uploading 
them to CoPilot.

The jury's still out on which is going to be the least work for a clean 
set of Excel files!

-- 
--
Phil, London

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#35855 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

Philip Herlihy wrote:
>>But maybe it's just better to use a table extractor such as Tabula (free)
>>or Camelot which are designed to pull tables out of PDFs into CSV/Excel.
>>
>>
> 
> Thanks for this.  I've played with Tabula, which is quite impressive.

Good to know that you've used the free Tabula as a table extractor, and
that your particular statements don't lend themselves to Tabula freeware.

I'm a freeware hound, so I really only know how to use free programs
although in my Silicon Valley professional life, I used payware a lot.

I worked with some of the most complicated datasets on the planet.
So I've imported and exported using million-dollar tools many times.

One point I'll make that I don't think anyone here who has been on
computers since the 1960s will disagree with, which is (almost) every
single conversion I've ever done (and I can't count how many I've done) has
"some kind of post-processing" issue that I've had to do to clean it up.

A bit of post processing is to be expected, is my main advice to anyone.

Since Tabula is the only freeware PDF-to-Excel that I'm aware of, there's
also supposedly these, but I have zero experience with them. Caveat Emptor.
 1. Able2Extract Professional  
 2. Tungsten Power PDF (formerly Kofax Power PDF)
 3. Adobe Acrobat Pro
 4. ABBYY FineReader PDF
 5. Nitro PDF Pro

I think most (if not all?) have already been discussed, so let's just say
something about each of them, as they're each different in many ways.	.

1. Able2Extract Professional
   It lets you manually define rows/columns when automatic conversion 
   gets the table wrong, and it has OCR for scanned PDFs. 
2. Tungsten Power PDF (formerly Kofax Power PDF)
   Advanced adds OCR and batch processing.
3. Adobe Acrobat Pro
   Adobe specifically supports exporting PDFs to XLS/XLSX while
   preserving tables and formatting. 
4. ABBYY FineReader PDF
   Good if your PDFs are scanned documents, because OCR is one of
   its major strengths. 
5. Nitro PDF Pro
   Excel conversion, OCR and batch capabilities
-- 
On Usenet, experience is meant to be passed along, not hoarded.

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#35829 — Re: Editing PDF files [Paid options?]

MikeS <MikeS@fred.com> wrote:
> On 05/10/2026 11:25, Philip Herlihy wrote:
[...]

> > What I actually want is something that will extract the transactions
> > from bank statements (notoriously chaotically formatted internally) and
> > export them to Excel.  I'm currently playing with Power Query, but it's
> > laborious due to the irregular internal structure of the documents.
> > 
> Have you checked which option(s) your bank offers for downloads? Many 
> now provide alternatives to pdf specifically to facilitate importing 
> data into spreadsheets or accounting software.

  Indeed! Our (Dutch) banks offer PDF, Excel and CSV (Comma Seperated
Values) formats. I think any somwhat 'modern' bank offers these options.
Our banks already offer them for over two decades! (I use CSV with my
own scripts.)

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