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Software for creating and editing PDFs

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  Software for creating and editing PDFs Tim Slattery <TimSlattery@utexas.edu> - 2025-02-28 09:59 -0500
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> - 2025-02-28 15:26 +0000
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-02-28 09:56 -0600
      Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-02-28 11:02 -0500
        Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs sticks <wolverine01@charter.net> - 2025-02-28 10:22 -0600
          Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-28 11:42 -0500
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-02-28 11:51 -0500
              Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-28 13:54 -0500
                Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-02-28 20:00 +0000
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-02-28 20:32 +0000
              Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Rick <rick@nospam.com> - 2025-02-28 16:30 -0500
                Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-03-01 00:20 +0000
                  Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-28 19:49 -0500
                Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-02-28 20:01 -0500
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2025-03-02 16:41 +0000
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-28 11:30 -0500
      Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-28 16:47 +0000
        Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-28 12:51 -0500
          Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-28 18:01 +0000
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-02-28 15:57 -0500
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Gelato <gelato@.is.invalid> - 2025-02-28 19:01 -0500
        Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Stan Brown <the_stan_brown@fastmail.fm> - 2025-03-01 10:45 -0800
          Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-01 14:55 -0500
            Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Wolf Greenblatt <wolf@greenblatt.net> - 2025-03-02 15:17 -0500
              Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-02 20:25 -0500
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs MR <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2025-02-28 16:55 +0000
      Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-02-28 17:17 +0000
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> - 2025-02-28 12:12 -0600
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> - 2025-02-28 19:17 +0000
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-02-28 14:40 -0500
      Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-03-01 06:44 -0500
      Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-03-01 08:24 -0500
        Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs croy <croy@spam.invalid.net> - 2025-03-01 07:46 -0800
          Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-03-01 13:24 -0700
        Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Simon GAHHH Creator <noreply@GAHHH.com> - 2025-03-01 23:00 +0000
          Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs Colour Sergeant Bourne <bourne@rorke.za> - 2025-03-03 19:05 -0500
    Re: Software for creating and editing PDFs John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-03-01 00:08 +0000

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#17527

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 18:01:11 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

>>     I don't understand. One still has to have an editor to
>> set the layout, right? Word and Writer both do the
>> conversion.
> 
> They do, if you use "File/Save as PDF ..."
> 
>> It sounds like Tim is saying that Word
>> doesn't do the layout the way that Amazon likes.
> 
> Using "File/Print" with a PDF driver such as Bullzip or Microsoft, or 
> Adobe (paid) may give different results ...

CutePDF  <https://www.cutepdf.com/index.htm>

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#17542

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 16:47:44 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
> Newyana2 wrote:
> 
> >     I use Libre Office Writer and export to PDF. I have no idea
> > what Amazon's demands might be.
> 
> The O/P might try Windows print-to-pdf ...
> 

If they want a huge file.

CutePDF prints to PDF, but the files are much smaller.

-- 
Stan Brown, Tehachapi, California, USA         https://BrownMath.com/
Shikata ga nai...

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#17544

On Sat, 3/1/2025 1:45 PM, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 16:47:44 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Newyana2 wrote:
>>
>>>     I use Libre Office Writer and export to PDF. I have no idea
>>> what Amazon's demands might be.
>>
>> The O/P might try Windows print-to-pdf ...
>>
> 
> If they want a huge file.
> 
> CutePDF prints to PDF, but the files are much smaller.
> 

The Microsoft output, might not have Embedded Fonts.

A very large file output is a sign of "dumb cheesy bitmap" print.

For forensics, you can use Mutool/MuPDF and
dump various things, to get an idea of the
construction of the output.

I can't currently locate any PDF/X-1a sample files,
to do any examination of one.

   Paul

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#17569

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 14:55:04 -0500, Paul wrote:

> I can't currently locate any PDF/X-1a sample files,
> to do any examination of one.

I had to first figure out what that even is.
https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/pdf-x-pdf-a-pdf.html

It's actually not easy to find - so I commiserate with you.

I didn't see it here - but maybe one of these is the right type?
https://www.learningcontainer.com/sample-pdf-files-for-testing/

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#17572

On Sun, 3/2/2025 3:17 PM, Wolf Greenblatt wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 14:55:04 -0500, Paul wrote:
> 
>> I can't currently locate any PDF/X-1a sample files,
>> to do any examination of one.
> 
> I had to first figure out what that even is.
> https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/pdf-x-pdf-a-pdf.html
> 
> It's actually not easy to find - so I commiserate with you.
> 
> I didn't see it here - but maybe one of these is the right type?
> https://www.learningcontainer.com/sample-pdf-files-for-testing/
> 

Unless the web page distributing, attests to the PDF/X ness
or the PDF/A ness, then it is unlikely to be worth downloading.

There should be an ICC declaration inside it, embedded fonts if
fonts are used (and likely subset fonts rather than a full
embedded font). The PDF/x-1a is PDF 1.3 for the general part
of the document. I don't know if they check that too for
compliance or not. The images have to be in CHYK colors, rather
than the hobbyist RGB images.

It's like a PDF, only "styled" a certain way, such that
when it is passed to an Adobe "compliance checker" tool
it comes back as "compliant". That's likely how Amazon rejects
submissions, is just "wave an Adobe checker over it".

While one "history" of the subject, claims that the prepress
industry came together and <cough> "demanded" such a thing,
I expect this was Tech Push (Adobe agenda) and not Tech Pull. But
apparently there is an ISO standard attached to the details of it,
which means the smaller PDF companies could offer it as an output
format. Perhaps some version of Foxit can do it. IDK.
It seems the usual kind of expensive exercise to me.
The rule of thumb is, when dealing with "pre-press monkeys",
expect to spend money. I wouldn't even mind so much, if the
software wasn't rental software and you could just "own" it.
At leas then, it's possible to "weigh" the impact of purchase.

   Paul

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#17510

On 28/02/2025 14:59, Tim Slattery wrote:
> My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
> books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
> currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
> the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts.
> 
> Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?
> 

She should be using something like Bullzip. All she has to do is to 
"print the document" and save as pdf using Bullzip. Her printer will be 
Bullzip.

<https://www.bullzip.com/products/pdf/download.php>

It's quite easy to use because it is the same way as she must be using 
in Word97. Microsoft Office 97 didn't have sophisticated way of saving 
files as pdf so they created a small Add-On to use in Office 97. These 
were the bad old days. Of course Office is quite sophisticated these days.

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#17511

MR wrote:

> She should be using something like Bullzip. All she has to do is to
> "print the document" and save as pdf using Bullzip. Her printer will be
> Bullzip.
I did use Bullzip print to PDF (free for small businesses) before 
Microsoft included their own print to PDF ... one handy feature was its 
overlay option, used to print invoices with an overlay that matched the 
pre-printed stationary the accounting software assumed you were buying 
from them :-P

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#17515

Tim Slattery wrote:
> My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
> books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
> currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
> the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts.
> 
> Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?
Install a "print to pdf" program.
I use "CutePDF Writer" on several comps.

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#17517

On 28/02/2025 14:59, Tim Slattery wrote:
> My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
> books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
> currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
> the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts.
> 
> Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?

Editing PDF files is something that's possible but not recommended.

It's usually best to keep the original in a file of a type that is 
designed to be edited and do all changes on that. Then export the new 
version to PDF when a new updated PDF is needed.

Though, having said that, it's likely that the only major problems you 
will have if you use software that is good at importing PDFs, and you 
only keep the PDF file, will be with diagrams made from separate parts 
positioned relative to each other which are likely to get merged into a 
single final image in the PDF so that they can no longer be moved 
relative to each other.

-- 
Brian Gregory (in England).

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#17518

On Fri, 2/28/2025 9:59 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
> My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
> books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
> currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
> the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts. 
> 
> Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?
> 

Would that be something like this ?

https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G202145060

      Book Formatting : Format Your Paperback : Save Your Manuscript File

      Save Your Manuscript File

      Settings

       You can choose to print, export, or save as PDF depending on your editing software.
       Whichever method you choose, make sure you enable the following PDF-specific
       settings in addition to the file specifications above:

      PDF/X format is used. PDF/X-1a is preferred, but if you are submitting non-PDF/X
      files (for example, PDF/A), any comments, forms, or other non-printing objects
      could be removed during our review.

      Downsampling, or decreasing resolution, of images is disabled. [wants 300DPI]

      Remove PDF creation logos or watermarks.

      Optimize PDFs. Optimization is useful to reduce your file size, allowing for
      higher performance when transferring, uploading, viewing, and printing the files.

https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/acrobat/using/pdf-x-pdf-a-pdf.html

   PDF/X-, PDF/A-, and PDF/E-compliant files (Acrobat Pro)

   Convert PDFs to PDF/X, PDF/A, or PDF/E

   You can validate PDF content against PDF/X, PDF/A, PDF/VT or PDF/E criteria.

   You can also save a copy of the PDF as PDF/X, PDF/A, or PDF/E, provided it
   complies with the specified requirements.

   For example, under certain circumstances, an ICC profile that describes the
   destination device is required for PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3, and PDF/X-4 compliance.

   If your document doesn’t have an embedded ICC output profile, you can
   embed one before saving.  [At your peril of course :-) ]

Even though no actual printing is going on, it sounds like
to some extent, you're dealing with "pre-press monkeys",
just like if you went to a real book publisher and they
did not like your PDF submission.

Illustrator could do colour separations, and is a pre-print
ready tool. That would be overkill for what your wife wants,
as she is not going to want to take an Illustrator course
just to do simple stuff like this.

The real question then, is can you sling the ICC part of this.
You'll need to find someone who knows what ICC type they
want, to find something you can bodge in there. But it's all
for a good purpose, because having an ICC is there to ensure
it looks like your wife intended, when on the customer desktop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile

While a lot of tools can make "any old PDF", the "pre-press monkeys"
will make sure you have a bumpy ride.

And I'm not a fan of Adobe, and I don't put suggestions like
this in a posting for fun. I've *removed* Adobe from my
computers, due to "shenanigans". They're banned here.

They were an OK company, a more-than-OK company, before the
"rental software era". Now they can just fuck right off.
They've burned up a lot of goodwill.

   Paul

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#17538

On Fri, 2/28/2025 2:40 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Fri, 2/28/2025 9:59 AM, Tim Slattery wrote:
>> My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
>> books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
>> currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
>> the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts. 
>>
>> Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?
>>
> 
> Would that be something like this ?
> 
> https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G202145060
> 
>       Book Formatting : Format Your Paperback : Save Your Manuscript File
> 
>       Save Your Manuscript File
> 
>       Settings
> 
>        You can choose to print, export, or save as PDF depending on your editing software.
>        Whichever method you choose, make sure you enable the following PDF-specific
>        settings in addition to the file specifications above:
> 
>       PDF/X format is used. PDF/X-1a is preferred, but if you are submitting non-PDF/X
>       files (for example, PDF/A), any comments, forms, or other non-printing objects
>       could be removed during our review.
> 
>       Downsampling, or decreasing resolution, of images is disabled. [wants 300DPI]
> 
>       Remove PDF creation logos or watermarks.
> 
>       Optimize PDFs. Optimization is useful to reduce your file size, allowing for
>       higher performance when transferring, uploading, viewing, and printing the files.
> 
> https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/acrobat/using/pdf-x-pdf-a-pdf.html
> 
>    PDF/X-, PDF/A-, and PDF/E-compliant files (Acrobat Pro)
> 
>    Convert PDFs to PDF/X, PDF/A, or PDF/E
> 
>    You can validate PDF content against PDF/X, PDF/A, PDF/VT or PDF/E criteria.
> 
>    You can also save a copy of the PDF as PDF/X, PDF/A, or PDF/E, provided it
>    complies with the specified requirements.
> 
>    For example, under certain circumstances, an ICC profile that describes the
>    destination device is required for PDF/X-1a, PDF/X-3, and PDF/X-4 compliance.
> 
>    If your document doesn’t have an embedded ICC output profile, you can
>    embed one before saving.  [At your peril of course :-) ]
> 
> Even though no actual printing is going on, it sounds like
> to some extent, you're dealing with "pre-press monkeys",
> just like if you went to a real book publisher and they
> did not like your PDF submission.
> 
> Illustrator could do colour separations, and is a pre-print
> ready tool. That would be overkill for what your wife wants,
> as she is not going to want to take an Illustrator course
> just to do simple stuff like this.
> 
> The real question then, is can you sling the ICC part of this.
> You'll need to find someone who knows what ICC type they
> want, to find something you can bodge in there. But it's all
> for a good purpose, because having an ICC is there to ensure
> it looks like your wife intended, when on the customer desktop.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICC_profile
> 
> While a lot of tools can make "any old PDF", the "pre-press monkeys"
> will make sure you have a bumpy ride.
> 
> And I'm not a fan of Adobe, and I don't put suggestions like
> this in a posting for fun. I've *removed* Adobe from my
> computers, due to "shenanigans". They're banned here.
> 
> They were an OK company, a more-than-OK company, before the
> "rental software era". Now they can just fuck right off.
> They've burned up a lot of goodwill.
> 

Here is a link, with a basic explanation of the format.

https://www.foxit.com/blog/pdfx-offers-a-family-of-pdf-standards-for-printing-and-publishing/

   Paul

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#17539

On 2/28/2025 2:40 PM, Paul wrote:

> 
> And I'm not a fan of Adobe, and I don't put suggestions like
> this in a posting for fun. I've *removed* Adobe from my
> computers, due to "shenanigans". They're banned here.
> 
> They were an OK company, a more-than-OK company, before the
> "rental software era". Now they can just fuck right off.
> They've burned up a lot of goodwill.
> 

    Adobe have always been sleazy. They price gouge for
Photoshop because they can get away with it. They're
members of the Business Software Alliance, which sends
SWAT teams into businesses after getting tips from disgruntled
employees, while hiding the companies actually doing the
enforcement. Adobe have tried to gain control of the Internet
3 times -- With Flash Player, AIR and PDF.

   Then there's the rental-only change that left longtime
customers no choice but to pay rent.

   Then there are the artificial restrictions on PDF format that
helped Adobe maintain monopoly by giving away the viewer
but gouging for the editor.

   And of course there's
the wild bloat of their software. Last time I looked at
Acrobat Viewer it was something like 125 MB, and that was
many years ago. PDF Exchange Viewer, which provides me
with limited editing ability for free, is only 25 MB. Sumatra
viewer is something like 8 MB.

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#17540

On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 08:24:06 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>    Adobe have always been sleazy. They price gouge for
>Photoshop because they can get away with it. They're
>members of the Business Software Alliance, which sends
>SWAT teams into businesses after getting tips from disgruntled
>employees, while hiding the companies actually doing the
>enforcement. Adobe have tried to gain control of the Internet
>3 times -- With Flash Player, AIR and PDF.

And... they somehow get businesses and governments to make a claim that the
PDF documents they offer for viewing or downloading, must be viewed with an
Adobe product.

-- 
croy

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#17547

On 3/1/2025 8:46 AM, croy wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2025 08:24:06 -0500, Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> 
>>     Adobe have always been sleazy. They price gouge for
>> Photoshop because they can get away with it. They're
>> members of the Business Software Alliance, which sends
>> SWAT teams into businesses after getting tips from disgruntled
>> employees, while hiding the companies actually doing the
>> enforcement. Adobe have tried to gain control of the Internet
>> 3 times -- With Flash Player, AIR and PDF.
> 
> And... they somehow get businesses and governments to make a claim that the
> PDF documents they offer for viewing or downloading, must be viewed with an
> Adobe product.
Many years ago, the US Government was suing M$ for monopolistic 
practices, etc. At the same time DARPA* was demanding that all submitted 
proposals have the financial portion prepared using Excel! The idea is 
that they wanted to be able to quickly re-cost what-if scenarios to 
predict effect of modifications to statements of work. This pair of 
observations showed to many that our government had its head squarely up 
its ass.

*DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Programs Agency) is the part of our 
war department that sponsors far out research for projects as large as 
the B2 bomber or as small as grants to individual researchers or 
University departments. It was supposedly the crème de la crème source 
of research support up to that time; it was in the process of changing 
from University types staffing the offices on temporary assignments to 
the offices being headed by military types.
-- 
Jeff Barnett

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#17553

On 01/03/2025 13:24, Newyana2 wrote:
> Adobe have always been sleazy. They price gouge for
> Photoshop because they can get away with it.

This is terrible. For a charitable organization they should not be doing 
this. The whole purpose of a charity is to help people on low income to 
enjoy without spending a dime.

Has anybody complained to the Law makers to do something about this?

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#17586

On 3/1/25 6:00 PM, Simon GAHHH Creator wrote:
> On 01/03/2025 13:24, Newyana2 wrote:
>> Adobe have always been sleazy. They price gouge for
>> Photoshop because they can get away with it.
> 
> This is terrible. For a charitable organization they should not be doing
> this. The whole purpose of a charity is to help people on low income to
> enjoy without spending a dime.
> 
> Has anybody complained to the Law makers to do something about this?
> 
What exactly is it that lawmakers have to say about a private company 
developing a product and then selling it for what the market will bear? 
That's what our economy is all about, no?

If they choose to let a charitable or non-profit organization use their 
product for free, well that's nice. If they don't, that's OK too.

The idea of a company is to make money. Isn't that what you want the 
companies whose stocks are in your IRA or 401(k) to do?

Just sayin'...

-- 
How many countries tax their citizens and send money to the United States?

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#17528

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025 09:59:26 -0500, Tim Slattery
<TimSlattery@utexas.edu> wrote:

>My wife makes books for Amazon's online sales. These aren't printed
>books, they're PDFs made to Amazon's specifications. I think she
>currently uses Word97 and "Save to PDF", but I'm not really sure. But
>the process doesn't work well and drives her nuts. 
>
>Does anybody have a clue what she _should_ be using?


 "PDFComplete"? I use that one as a sort of extension to Firefix
browser. 

 https://www.pdfcomplete.com/cms/Products/OfficeEdition4.aspx

 Mine is older than bones and just works. 

                                                         J.  

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