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Virtual Desktop?

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  Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 04:55 -0800
    Re: Virtual Desktop? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:10 +0000
      Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 05:55 -0800
        Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 05:58 -0800
          Re: Virtual Desktop? Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2024-12-29 14:09 +0000
            Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 06:27 -0800
              Re: Virtual Desktop? "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2024-12-29 10:38 -0500
                Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:52 -0800
    Re: Virtual Desktop? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-12-29 08:22 -0500
      Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 05:52 -0800
        Re: Virtual Desktop? Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2024-12-29 12:58 -0500
          Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 23:54 -0800
    Re: Virtual Desktop? Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> - 2024-12-29 13:29 +0000
      Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-29 05:56 -0800
        Re: Virtual Desktop? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 04:09 -0500
      Re: Virtual Desktop? Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2024-12-30 08:25 +0000
        Re: Virtual Desktop? Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-30 05:33 -0500
    Re: Virtual Desktop? VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-29 23:16 -0600
      Re: Virtual Desktop? T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2024-12-30 00:01 -0800

#15714 — Virtual Desktop?

Hi All,

Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
only a Wine/Linux thing?

A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
of the window.

This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)

Many thanks,
-T

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#15715

T wrote:

> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
> only a Wine/Linux thing?
> 
> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
> of the window.

No, although you can open extra virtual desktops, they're the same 
resolution as your real screen.

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#15721

On 12/29/24 05:10, Andy Burns wrote:
> T wrote:
> 
>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>>
>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>> of the window.
> 
> No, although you can open extra virtual desktops, they're the same 
> resolution as your real screen.
> 

Bugger!   Thank you for the help!

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#15723

On 12/29/24 05:55, T wrote:
> On 12/29/24 05:10, Andy Burns wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>
>>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>>>
>>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>>> of the window.
>>
>> No, although you can open extra virtual desktops, they're the same 
>> resolution as your real screen.
>>
> 
> Bugger!   Thank you for the help!

I am about to write up how to run Approach in a
virtual desktop in Wine for the FAQ on the Approach
forum.  I wanted to show how to do it in both Linux
and Windows.

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#15726

T wrote:

> I am about to write up how to run Approach in a
> virtual desktop in Wine for the FAQ on the Approach
> forum.  I wanted to show how to do it in both Linux
> and Windows.

some 3840x2160 monitors allow themselves to appear as a 2x2 grid of 
1920x1080 monitors, does that apply to yours?

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#15727

On 12/29/24 06:09, Andy Burns wrote:
> T wrote:
> 
>> I am about to write up how to run Approach in a
>> virtual desktop in Wine for the FAQ on the Approach
>> forum.  I wanted to show how to do it in both Linux
>> and Windows.
> 
> some 3840x2160 monitors allow themselves to appear as a 2x2 grid of 
> 1920x1080 monitors, does that apply to yours?

Yes, but I don't like it.  I have Approach set to run in
a Wine Virtual Desktop.  I have to think about it to realize
it is happening.  So I am happy.

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#15729

On 12/29/24 09:27 AM, T wrote:
> On 12/29/24 06:09, Andy Burns wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>
>>> I am about to write up how to run Approach in a
>>> virtual desktop in Wine for the FAQ on the Approach
>>> forum.  I wanted to show how to do it in both Linux
>>> and Windows.
>>
>> some 3840x2160 monitors allow themselves to appear as a 2x2 grid of 1920x1080 monitors, does that 
>> apply to yours?
> 
> Yes, but I don't like it.  I have Approach set to run in
> a Wine Virtual Desktop.  I have to think about it to realize
> it is happening.  So I am happy.
You can launch winecfg and set in the applications tab what OS an application thinks it's running.
Also in the Graphics tab you can fake the resolution.  I found on my 1980x1020 screen @ 96dpi, that 
if I change the Graphics to 192dpi (twice norm) then all my wine apps appeared larger, as I think 
they would in windows.   But the Graphics tab applies to all wine apps.

-- 
Linux Mint 22, Cinnamon 6.2.9,  Kernel 6.8.0-51-generic
Thunderbird 128.5.2esr, Mozilla Firefox 133.0.3
Alan K.

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#15780

On 12/29/24 07:38, Alan K. wrote:
>> Yes, but I don't like it.  I have Approach set to run in
>> a Wine Virtual Desktop.  I have to think about it to realize
>> it is happening.  So I am happy.

> You can launch winecfg and set in the applications tab what OS an 
> application thinks it's running.

I usually pick W7.   It won't let you change the resolution
of font size for individual programs though.

> Also in the Graphics tab you can fake the resolution.  I found on my 
> 1980x1020 screen @ 96dpi, that if I change the Graphics to 192dpi (twice 
> norm) then all my wine apps appeared larger, as I think they would in 
> windows.   But the Graphics tab applies to all wine apps.

winecfg will set everything to a virtual display.
I was going to include that in my write up.  I mainly
wanted to show how to do programs individually .
Let me know if you are interested in that.

I was really hoping that I could add how to do
virtual display with the user's pick of a resolution
for Windows as well.   Oh well ...

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#15717

On 12/29/2024 7:55 AM, T wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
> only a Wine/Linux thing?
> 
> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
> of the window.
> 
> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)
> 

    I'm assuming you mean window size and not ppi... I don't
think it would be possible for any software tho actually change
resolution for a part of the screen. That would have to be done
by a graphics chip/card and I've never heard of it being possible.

   Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just use the program
at "normal" size and hand-size it. Most programs will remember
that setting when they open. My monitor is 27"/1920x1080. There
are few programs that I use at fullscreen.

   Or did you just want to remind us again that you can use your
computer as a drive-in theater? :)

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#15720

On 12/29/24 05:22, Newyana2 wrote:
> Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just use the program
> at "normal" size and hand-size it. Most programs will remember
> that setting when they open. My monitor is 27"/1920x1080. There
> are few programs that I use at fullscreen.

It does not matter what size you make the Approach
program.  If the screen's resolution is above 1920x 1440
Approach gets weird.   Things don't paint.  screens shimmer.
Tool bar don't show, but are there if you guess where
to click.  etc..

Here is what a 1920x1440 Wine virtual desktop looks like
on my Fedora base machine.

https://ibb.co/Y82TWSn

I was hoping to reproduce this in Windows.

> 
>    Or did you just want to remind us again that you can use your
> computer as a drive-in theater? 🙂

What me????   NEVER!!!!  Wait???   No pop corn???

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#15731

On 12/29/2024 8:52 AM, T wrote:
> On 12/29/24 05:22, Newyana2 wrote:
>> Maybe this is a dumb question, but why not just use the program
>> at "normal" size and hand-size it. Most programs will remember
>> that setting when they open. My monitor is 27"/1920x1080. There
>> are few programs that I use at fullscreen.
> 
> It does not matter what size you make the Approach
> program.  If the screen's resolution is above 1920x 1440
> Approach gets weird.   Things don't paint.  screens shimmer.
> Tool bar don't show, but are there if you guess where
> to click.  etc..
> 
     How strange. It clearly doesn't exceed any normal numeric limit.
I wonder what the problem could be. The program should be
tracking it's own RECT. The only thing I can think of is a
signed 16-bit integer tracking twips instead of pixels, causing
the values to come back as negative values at some point when
you get past about 2100 pixels. But even that limit shouldn't apply
if the window is small enough and in the center.

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#15781

On 12/29/24 09:58, Newyana2 wrote:
>> It does not matter what size you make the Approach
>> program.  If the screen's resolution is above 1920x 1440
>> Approach gets weird.   Things don't paint.  screens shimmer.
>> Tool bar don't show, but are there if you guess where
>> to click.  etc..
>>
>      How strange. It clearly doesn't exceed any normal numeric limit.
> I wonder what the problem could be. The program should be
> tracking it's own RECT. The only thing I can think of is a
> signed 16-bit integer tracking twips instead of pixels, causing
> the values to come back as negative values at some point when
> you get past about 2100 pixels. But even that limit shouldn't apply
> if the window is small enough and in the center.


(Lotus) Word Pro is weird too.  You type and nothing appears.
But if you move the window across the screen to a new location,
all your typing appears.  Move it back and it disappears again.

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#15718

T wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
> only a Wine/Linux thing?
> 
> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
> of the window.
> 
> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)

Isn't the whole point of the Windows operating system that the user can 
control the size of any window used by a program?  Does Lotus Approach 
disable this facility?  (I've never used it.)

I have a suggestion.

Get a second PC which will run the "Professional" version of your chosen 
MS Windows OS.  Connect it to your LAN.  Enable and configure the 
"Remote Desktop" function so you can run it "headless".  Install Lotus 
Approach on that PC.

Now from your large screen PC run the Remote Desktop client and specify 
its window size to be whatever will work with Lotus Approach.  You can 
now drive Lotus Approach in this "Virtual Desktop" and have the 
remainder of your screen real estate available for other work.

-- 
Graham J

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#15722

On 12/29/24 05:29, Graham J wrote:
> T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>>
>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>> of the window.
>>
>> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
>> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
>> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)
> 
> Isn't the whole point of the Windows operating system that the user can 
> control the size of any window used by a program?  Does Lotus Approach 
> disable this facility?  (I've never used it.)
> 
> I have a suggestion.
> 
> Get a second PC which will run the "Professional" version of your chosen 
> MS Windows OS.  Connect it to your LAN.  Enable and configure the 
> "Remote Desktop" function so you can run it "headless".  Install Lotus 
> Approach on that PC.
> 
> Now from your large screen PC run the Remote Desktop client and specify 
> its window size to be whatever will work with Lotus Approach.  You can 
> now drive Lotus Approach in this "Virtual Desktop" and have the 
> remainder of your screen real estate available for other work.
> 



I just have to set any of my five Windows Virtual Machines
to 1920x1440

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#15791

On Sun, 12/29/2024 8:56 AM, T wrote:
> On 12/29/24 05:29, Graham J wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>>>
>>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>>> of the window.
>>>
>>> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
>>> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
>>> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)
>>
>> Isn't the whole point of the Windows operating system that the user can control the size of any window used by a program?  Does Lotus Approach disable this facility?  (I've never used it.)
>>
>> I have a suggestion.
>>
>> Get a second PC which will run the "Professional" version of your chosen MS Windows OS.  Connect it to your LAN.  Enable and configure the "Remote Desktop" function so you can run it "headless".  Install Lotus Approach on that PC.
>>
>> Now from your large screen PC run the Remote Desktop client and specify its window size to be whatever will work with Lotus Approach.  You can now drive Lotus Approach in this "Virtual Desktop" and have the remainder of your screen real estate available for other work.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> I just have to set any of my five Windows Virtual Machines
> to 1920x1440
> 

It's the combination of Lotus Approach and Windows 11, which is "not good".

Windows 11, you notice you can use the scroll wheel and change the scale.
Windows 11 could be asking Lotus Approach to do things for which the
graphics inside Approach are not "modern enough" to accept moment
by moment changes from 125% to 150%. Maybe Lotus could deal with a
given scale choice at install time, but won't accept scale-change
requests on the fly or something.

You might consider checking the Properties of the Lotus Approach executable,
and changing it to "winXP compatible", in order to force the graphics
subsystem in Windows 11, into some sort of subset mode where that
sort of request won't be sent to Approach. Maybe a Compatibility
choice, can alter the symptoms (notice I didn't say "fix" there,
the results will be largely random).

I'm extrapolating from here, where someone finds Approach behaves
better if the scaling is 100% or something in Windows 11. This means,
you may initially experiment, to discover a slight improvement in behavior,
and then veer off that course of action and test the Compatibility
setting of the EXE and see what changes that makes.

Lotus things apparently "flicker", so there is a serious mismatch
between what the turkeys did in there, and how the ecosystem
actually works that they live in.

https://forum.parallels.com/threads/interesting-what-will-run-on-windows-11-parallels-and-what-wont.354634/

   Paul

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#15787

Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
> T wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>> 
>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>> of the window.
>> 
>> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
>> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
>> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)
> 
> Isn't the whole point of the Windows operating system that the user can 
> control the size of any window used by a program?  Does Lotus Approach 
> disable this facility?  (I've never used it.)
> 
> I have a suggestion.
> 
> Get a second PC which will run the "Professional" version of your chosen 
> MS Windows OS.  

Cheaper option would be to get a second, lower resolution, monitor and pin
the app to that screen. 

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#15793

On Mon, 12/30/2024 3:25 AM, Chris wrote:
> Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:
>> T wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
>>> only a Wine/Linux thing?
>>>
>>> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
>>> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
>>> of the window.
>>>
>>> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
>>> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
>>> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)
>>
>> Isn't the whole point of the Windows operating system that the user can 
>> control the size of any window used by a program?  Does Lotus Approach 
>> disable this facility?  (I've never used it.)
>>
>> I have a suggestion.
>>
>> Get a second PC which will run the "Professional" version of your chosen 
>> MS Windows OS.  
> 
> Cheaper option would be to get a second, lower resolution, monitor and pin
> the app to that screen. 
> 

Or put it on a second computer and use PIP (Picture in Picture).
The only advantage of PIP, is you don't need to put a small
monitor to one side of your big monitor with PIP. And PIP
would only be visible if you turned it on. You would still
need two keyboards and two mice, to drive two machines via PIP.

Some big monitors support PIP or they support PBP.
In fact, if a monitor has a high enough resolution,
it's actually running in PBP permanently (two DP
connectors, one drives one half of the screen,
the second drives the other half of the screen).

    Comp#1 DP        comp#2 DP    Comp#1 DP          Comp#1 DP or comp#2 DP
           |           |                 |            |
    +------v-----+-----v-----+     +-----v------+-----v-----+
    |            |    PIP    |     |            |           | 5K monitor
    |            |           |     |            |           | (Screen too big/fast/deep
    |            +-----------+     |            |           |  for drive off one DP)
    |                        |     |            |           |
    |                        |     |            |           |
    +------------------------+     +------------------------+
             4K or 5K monitor        Picture-By-Picture PBP

But in a Google, the Lotus just leaves the impression it was
designed in 1990 or something :-) It would be like someone
becoming attached to Netscape Communicator and continuing
to run it. No amount of feeding it or watering it, is
going to make it behave (based on the "flickering" comments).
It's probably not even compositing-compatible. It could
be doing redraws on every expose event (which is how software
used to be written). Firefox for example, can refresh the screen
60 times a second, but because that is through compositing layers,
there is no flicker and the user is not aware of how the
implementation works.

    Paul

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#15777

T <T@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> Can I do a "Virtual Desktop" in Window?   Or is that
> only a Wine/Linux thing?
> 
> A "Virtual Desktop" opens a windows of a specific size and the
> programs that run in it think they are running at the resolution
> of the window.
> 
> This gets around programs like Lotus Approach that weird out
> on high resolution screens.  (Approach is only stable up to
> 1920x1440.  My screen is 4096x2160.)

You have a different definition of what is a virtual desktop.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/multiple-desktops-in-windows-36f52e38-5b4a-557b-2ff9-e1a60c976434#WindowsVersion=Windows_11

In the past, 3rd party software was needed to manage virtual desktops.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop

I have used dexpot, but it got abandoned back in 2016 when Microsoft
added virtual desktops to Windows 10.  VirtuWin is another (discontinued
in 2021).  Sysinternals had a Desktops program, but that was also
discontinued in 2021.  I never tried CubeDesktop NXT.  There are several
alternatives to dexpot.  Possibly some may let you define the maximum
window size for the desktop presented as a virtual desktop.  Possibly
they support independent window scaling (Settings > System > Display,
"Scale and layout", drop-down menu to select scaling percentage), but I
doubt it.  Presumably the maximum window size supported by the Lotus
Approach program is too small for your eyes, or your customer's, and you
want a bigger window, but not higher resolution (which actually makes
text look smaller since the same number of pixels used for a character
occupies less space due to closer pixels).

Microsoft's Azure, Amazon Workspaces, and Citrix DaaS have other
definition.  Their virtual desktop makes you think you are one a
computer.  You log into their service, and get what appears to you a
computer.

Virtual desktop are not the same as limiting a window's dimensions.
Have you tried compatibility mode with Lotus Approach?  Some video
drivers come with ancilliary software that can change the video
attributes when a particular program is detected when loaded.  I know
the AMD Adrenalin tool does something like that for games, but I've
never used it.  When I had a video game that fucked up the screen
resolution (didn't resume the prior resolution when the game exited), I
used a batch script to change the video resolution to what the game
supported, ran the game, and on its exit the script would reset the
screen resolution to the prior setting.

I found a script that supposedly sets the window size for Lotus
Approach.  Look at:

http://www.johnbrown.com.au/approach/webfaq04902875.html

I don't know if that will open a window larger than the max size
supported by Lotus Approach.

This gal mentions changing the page size to alter the window size:

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/t/726084/lotus-approach-widescreen-in-windows-10/

According to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Lotus_Approach

the last release of Lotus Approach was back in 2008.  Are you using the
latest version?  If not, could be a max window size limitation got
addressed in a later version.

Alternative RDBMS software, like PostgreSQL or mySQL, is not an option?

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#15782

On 12/29/24 21:16, VanguardLH wrote:
> the last release of Lotus Approach was back in 2008.  Are you using the
> latest version?  If not, could be a max window size limitation got
> addressed in a later version.

I am using Lotus Approach N99.8.0208.0800 (Smart Suite)
> 
> Alternative RDBMS software, like PostgreSQL or mySQL, is not an option?

I wrote my business accounting in Approach.
I took me months and has been considerably
refined over the last 30 years.

To convert to another system would be an
unreasonable undertaking.  I might as just
as well close the business.

SQL is just the back end.  I would have to rewrite
the entire front end.

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