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OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop

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  OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Fokke Nauta <fnauta@solfon.nl> - 2025-09-03 14:47 +0200
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop rsutton <rsutton43@comcast.net> - 2025-09-03 09:16 -0400
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "Alan K." <alan@invalid.com> - 2025-09-03 09:19 -0400
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop invalid  <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-03 13:23 +0000
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-04 03:14 +0100
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-09-04 09:37 +0100
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-03 10:26 -0400
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-03 10:29 -0400
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-03 17:40 +0000
          Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Abandoned Trolley <that.bloke@microsoft.com> - 2025-09-04 15:23 +0100
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-05 02:45 +0000
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-04 03:17 +0100
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-04 12:53 +0100
        Identifying people in pictures Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-04 14:18 +0100
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-04 11:47 -0400
          Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-04 22:40 +0100
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-05 03:30 -0400
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-05 13:47 +0100
              Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-06 11:27 +0100
                Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-06 08:45 -0400
                  Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-06 17:51 +0100
                  Photo Management (Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop) Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> - 2025-09-12 13:30 +0000
                Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-06 09:34 -0400
                Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-06 16:15 +0100
                  Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-06 16:31 +0100
                    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-06 20:11 +0100
                      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-06 15:30 -0400
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-09-06 15:27 +0200
              Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> - 2025-09-06 15:42 +0100
                Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Herbert Kleebauer <klee@unibwm.de> - 2025-09-06 18:31 +0200
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> - 2025-09-03 12:33 -0500
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-09-04 14:48 +0200
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-04 12:00 -0400
          Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-04 12:58 -0400
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-04 13:56 -0400
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> - 2025-09-04 12:06 -0500
          Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2025-09-04 13:41 -0400
          Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-09-04 20:18 +0200
            Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Paul in Houston TX <Paul@Houston.Texas> - 2025-09-04 15:32 -0500
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-03 14:34 -0400
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Fokke Nauta <fnauta@solfon.nl> - 2025-09-03 20:40 +0200
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-03 20:58 +0000
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop knuttle <keith_nuttle@yahoo.com> - 2025-09-03 19:10 -0400
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-09-04 20:20 +0200
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop wasbit <wasbit@REMOVEhotmail.com> - 2025-09-04 09:45 +0100
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2025-09-03 15:57 -0400
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop invalid <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-03 21:14 +0000
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-04 06:54 +0000
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-03 21:19 +0000
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Philip Herlihy <nothing@invalid.com> - 2025-09-04 11:39 +0100
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop T <T@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-03 14:37 -0700
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-09-03 17:17 -0500
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Jim the Geordie <jim@geordieland.com> - 2025-09-04 00:55 +0100
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2025-09-04 02:56 +0100
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-04 06:39 +0000
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop jetjock <jetjock@unkown.com> - 2025-09-04 09:24 -0500
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2025-09-05 10:17 +0200
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop George <hgrikmnhb@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-06 20:56 +0000
        Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Hank Rogers <Hank@nospam.invalid> - 2025-09-06 18:09 -0500
      Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Fokke Nauta <fnauta@solfon.nl> - 2025-09-07 09:32 +0200
    Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop Fokke Nauta <fnauta@solfon.nl> - 2025-09-05 19:41 +0200

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#187296

On 2025-09-06 13:45, Paul wrote:
>
> A hell of a lot of work to automate, but it could be done.

Too much work I think.  It's gonna be quicker continuing to do it manually.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#187392 — Photo Management (Re: OT: Replacement for Adobe Photoshop)

This is more of a general thought train, not really about replacing
PhotoShop, but about how to wrangle photo collections in general.

My wife is a "Point at everything and shoot it with my iPhone" kind of
person. She takes about 1000 pictures a month on her iPhone, and is
quite good at wrangling them in her way in the iCloud albums. I am a
"I want to keep it on MY hard drive" kinbd of person. I take 50 pictures
in a month except for vacations., but I also want to have HER pictures.
So I pull all of hers in along with mine. I have established a work flow
for this. I do my work in a mixed Windows/Linux environment, but you
could do much of it in Windows, and the few things that need to be on
Linux, you could use WSL. Programs ending in .pl er Perl scripts that I
wrote.

I gather everything in a file system named /pictures with the following
folder structure:
  /pictures
    2000/
    2001/    ... etc
      2001-01/
      2001-02/   ... etc
        2001-02-OurHome/
        2001-02-SantaBarbara_CA/
        2001-02-California/
        2001-02-Lyngby_DK/
        2001-02-Indianola_IA/    ... etc
    2002/

On a regular basis, I pull in new pictures from each of our iCloud
accounts (because that is easier than dragging them from the phone)
using "icloudpd" (iCloud Picture Downloader), into /pictures/Imports
where they land in
   /pictures/Imports/Lars/2025/09/
       (the program creates the yyyy/mm folders) and my workflow
operates in this temporary environment.

I got iCloudPD from the Internet.

1. Import with icloudpd - first take 1, note the IMG_0000 number,
   and then take the number of pictures to go back to what I got
   in the last import session.
2. remove_mini_movies.pl - My wife takes her pictures in "live"
   mode, which yields a 1-2.5 second movie in addition to the
   still photo, so I remove those.
3. groom_icloud.pl - The photos are tagged with camera model,
   so I know that if they are on an iPhone Xr they are mine
   and if they are on an iPhone 16, they are my wife's, if they
   are on an iPhone 13 mini, they are from my sister-in-law,
   and my wife saved them from the messages app. So I rename them
   from IMG_1234.HEIC to ABC_61234.HEIC, extending the number
   range to ensure the names are unique and putting in the
   initials of the person who took them.
   A handful of images have crazy names like "FullSizeRender.jpg"
   and need to be manually renamed at this point.
4. groom_imports.pl - Convert HEIC to JPG, and squirrel away
   the HEIC originals in /pictures/small/HEIC/yyyy/yyyy-mm/
   as a safety backup. Also rotates pictures so they are all
   upright, using "orientation" tag in JPG file.
5. get_location.pl -rename * ... - Look up the GPS metadata
   and from my own database of places, each defined by a
   point location and a radius aound that point, find a named
   location and move the files to which that applies into a
   subfolder of files from there. Sometimes I need to add new
   location descriptors.
6. Move the new files into the proper "permanent" location.
7. In the main repository, run
     makethumbs.pl
        which creates smaller versions (stamp-sized and
   postcard-sized, i.e. 200 pixels and 800 pixels on
   the longest side) to be saved away in
     /pictures/small/(Thumb|Medium)/yyyy/yyyy-mm/
   These are used by my web browsing programs.

I can view these by pointing a web browser to
   http://my-server/pictures/
A CGI script in Perl lets me walk the file tree, and in each
folder project a "light table" of the thumbnails. Clicking
on a thumbnail picture brings up a page with the medium picture
and its metadata, including tags desribing contents and a
clickable link of its location name. Clicking that, brings up
Google Maps with the cursor on the image location. Clicking 
instead on the picture, loads the full-size picture.

As it happens, the main folder structure works well with
DigiKam, the open-source program that is a similar feature
set as PhotoShop Elements. It can scan for faces and tag
pictures with person names.It also contains a modest image
editor.

If this sounds like a lot of work ... it IS a lot of work
to maintain structure when you have 100,000 images in your
collection.

-- 
Lars Poulsen

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#187288

On 09/06/2025 6:27 AM, Java Jive wrote:
> I'd like to load a series of images with a series of vector text fields, 
> and have them numbered automatically, like you can select a series of 
> paragraphs in a word-processor and turn them into a numbered list, the 
> numbering of which automatically adjusts as you insert, delete, or move 
> paragraphs.  I've not seen anything like this, which is why I suspect 
> it's too big an ask.
As I understand you want to give the images a name ie location, ids' 
etc. and then give each image a consecutive number.

This can be done using the rename function in Irfanview.  Go to Batch 
Conversion-Rename.   In the naming Pattern enter $N####   $N is the old 
file name without the extention,  # is a consecutive digit ie 1,2,3, etc

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#187293

On 2025/9/6 11:27:23, Java Jive wrote:

[]

>> What is your "end game"? Presumably all faces 
> 
> ... and 2 or 3 dogs and about 10 places (I've already identified and 
> named accurately the vast majority of the landscapes and buildings, 
> including many that are abroad, using online OS maps, Google Street 
> View, Reverse Image Search, etc) ...
> 
>> identified; but, do you

You still haven't told us how many pictures there are altogether. (Or
how many faces/dogs/buildings in total, including duplicates if the same
person[s] appear]s[ in more than one picture.) Without knowing that,
we're in danger of suggesting over- or under-complicated solutions.

>> still intend to publish the pictures with numbers on, and a key (because
>> there's not room on the pictures to put actual names)?
> 
> If I don't know the names, how can I put them on the photos?  The idea 

What I meant by "what is your end game" was, what do you intend to do
when you _have_ identified everyone (or everyone you're ever going to).

> is to put the pictures in the same order as in the album over one or two 
> web-pages, where the numbering follows consecutively down the various 
> pictures
> 
>> How is progress going: what do you see as the realistic probability of
>> getting all, or say 90% (less than 10 faces unidentified)?
> 
> I haven't put the pages up yet.

Ah, I hadn't realised this was a future plan; I had assumed you'd
already put the pictures up and were waiting for family responses. If
you haven't put anything up yet, then my earlier comments of "don't
renumber, it will only confuse" are moot. Although if you could - in the
end, when most _have_ been identified - use initials or similar for the
identified people, then I'd say it doesn't really matter if the numbers
are in a funny order: if you are hoping for emails of the form "number
83 is John Smith" (or, less helpful but you can still work it out, "72
is me, 84 is my uncle John"), then it doesn't matter what the numbers
are, as they'll eventually be replaced.>
>> How about, in the final - assuming there _isn't_ room to put full names
>> - using initials instead (with an added digit for where there are
>> duplicates, e. g. John Smith and Joe Soap)? You could use this in the
>> intermediate stages too.>
> 
> For the people, where there are only one or two, I shall simply name the 
> photo appropriately, where there are more, I shall release two versions 
> of each photo, one with a superimposed key, and the original without.

That sounds good.

[]


>> I'm still not really grasping what it is you want to automate, probably
>> because I'm not sure how many pictures we're talking about; your use of
>> "Series" above suggests it's a lot more than I had imagined.
> 
> I'd like to load a series of images with a series of vector text fields, 
> and have them numbered automatically, like you can select a series of 
> paragraphs in a word-processor and turn them into a numbered list, the 
> numbering of which automatically adjusts as you insert, delete, or move 
> paragraphs.  I've not seen anything like this, which is why I suspect 
> it's too big an ask.
> 
I sort of see what you're getting at - the word-processor numbering
analogy is a good one. Which is why I think we do need to have some clue
how many pictures - and total faces (not to mention dogs and buildings)
- we're talking about; solutions that are fine for maybe five to ten
pictures probably wouldn't be if there are twenty or more, but solutions
appropriate for a huge number of pictures would be overkill if there are
only a handful.
This is mostly _separate_ from the question of _how_ you apply the text
(numbers, initials, symbols etc.) to the pictures (or one set of them),
though that too will depend on whether there are lots or only a few
(bitmap manipulation is practical for a few but not for many).

-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Religion often uses faith as a blindfold, saying anyone who doesn't believe
the same as us must be wiped out. It's not God saying that. It's people,
which
is so dangerous. - Jenny Agutter, RT 2015/1/17-23

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#187294

On 2025-09-06 16:15, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
> On 2025/9/6 11:27:23, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to load a series of images with a series of vector text fields,
>> and have them numbered automatically, like you can select a series of
>> paragraphs in a word-processor and turn them into a numbered list, the
>> numbering of which automatically adjusts as you insert, delete, or move
>> paragraphs.  I've not seen anything like this, which is why I suspect
>> it's too big an ask.
>
> I sort of see what you're getting at - the word-processor numbering
> analogy is a good one. Which is why I think we do need to have some clue
> how many pictures - and total faces (not to mention dogs and buildings)
> - we're talking about; solutions that are fine for maybe five to ten
> pictures probably wouldn't be if there are twenty or more, but solutions
> appropriate for a huge number of pictures would be overkill if there are
> only a handful.

There are about 80 individual photos.  I've already said that there are 
nearly 100 unknown faces  -  already the numbering has reached the 70s 
with quite a number of photos still to do.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#187300

On 2025/9/6 16:31:25, Java Jive wrote:

[]

> There are about 80 individual photos.  I've already said that there are 
> nearly 100 unknown faces  -  already the numbering has reached the 70s 
> with quite a number of photos still to do.
> 
Wow, that's quite a lot of pictures! Do you already know _some_ of the
people in them? If not, and you're expecting about 100 names from about
80 pictures, then either there are a lot fewer people in each picture
than I thought (I thought you were talking about group photos with say
10 to 30 people in each), or there is a _lot_ of duplication.

If they _are_ photos with only 2 to 5 people in them, then (when you've
got all the names you're going to get) there probably _is_ going to be
room to actually put the names somewhere on the pictures, though if only
such small numbers of people in each, captioning then will also be
practicable.

I think you have a secondary problem: how are you going to persuade
family members to go through eighty-odd photos! My first thought was
release them in batches, but I don't think that'd help.

Herbert Kleebauer's suggestion of in effect turning them into clickable
maps is an interesting one; it would certainly avoid family members
having to see the numbers at all (only you need ever "see" them, by
looking at the email sujects or whatever). It does rely on (I presume)
mailto: links with preloaded subjects working flawlessly, though, which
I suspect would not be the case across multiple OSs. Something - in most
cases, I would expect their email client - would have to open up, to
give them somewhere to type the name they're suggesting. (If you own a
domain, you could avoid the preloading of the subject by using different
addresses for each face - 1-12@jive.com, 2-16@jive.com - but they still
need to be able to type the name somewhere.)

Good luck with it - it is a daunting project! (And that's from someone
who's been doing genealogy, off and on, for 45+ years.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Under democracy one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to
prove that the other party is unfit to rule - and both commonly succeed,
and are right. -H.L. Mencken, writer, editor, and critic (1880-1956)

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#187301

On 09/06/2025 3:11 PM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> On 2025/9/6 16:31:25, Java Jive wrote:
> 
> []
> 
>> There are about 80 individual photos.  I've already said that there are
>> nearly 100 unknown faces  -  already the numbering has reached the 70s
>> with quite a number of photos still to do.
>>
> Wow, that's quite a lot of pictures! Do you already know _some_ of the
> people in them? If not, and you're expecting about 100 names from about
> 80 pictures, then either there are a lot fewer people in each picture
> than I thought (I thought you were talking about group photos with say
> 10 to 30 people in each), or there is a _lot_ of duplication.
> 
> If they _are_ photos with only 2 to 5 people in them, then (when you've
> got all the names you're going to get) there probably _is_ going to be
> room to actually put the names somewhere on the pictures, though if only
> such small numbers of people in each, captioning then will also be
> practicable.
> 
> I think you have a secondary problem: how are you going to persuade
> family members to go through eighty-odd photos! My first thought was
> release them in batches, but I don't think that'd help.
> 
> Herbert Kleebauer's suggestion of in effect turning them into clickable
> maps is an interesting one; it would certainly avoid family members
> having to see the numbers at all (only you need ever "see" them, by
> looking at the email sujects or whatever). It does rely on (I presume)
> mailto: links with preloaded subjects working flawlessly, though, which
> I suspect would not be the case across multiple OSs. Something - in most
> cases, I would expect their email client - would have to open up, to
> give them somewhere to type the name they're suggesting. (If you own a
> domain, you could avoid the preloading of the subject by using different
> addresses for each face - 1-12@jive.com, 2-16@jive.com - but they still
> need to be able to type the name somewhere.)
> 
> Good luck with it - it is a daunting project! (And that's from someone
> who's been doing genealogy, off and on, for 45+ years.)
After reading this thread, and having made some suggestions, I think you 
are way over thinking the problem.  It you had a 1000 pictures, spending 
the time needed to create the system may be cost effective.

I copied all of my mother's pictures.  I set up a database of the file 
names, and a comments section.   First I id'ed and commented on each of 
the pictures.   I then sat down with my mother and we discussed each 
picture.  I added her information to the database.

As for identification of people I all ways worked from the top down and 
counter clockwise around the center. For those people close by, we went 
to their house and sat and looked at old pictures.  Not only identifying 
mine but collecting their.

Put the pictures online with simple identification and ask anyone with 
information to comment and identify the people and places that are in 
the picturs.  Ask them to comment by the picture id.

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#187287

On 9/4/2025 11:40 PM, Java Jive wrote:

> if someone clicks on the link to examine it more closely.  However,
> there are almost 100 people unknown to me in these photos, hence my
> interest in automating any part of the process I can.  

But for only 100 unknown people it seems to be easier to
do it manually instead of wasting time to create an automatic
process. But it has to be very simple to report an unknown
name to you, because otherwise you will get no response.

I would do something like this:

https://onlib.de/temp/demo/

If you put the mouse over a picture, the unknown people are
highlighted and if you click a highlighted part, an email is
sent to you (with hopefully more information about this
person). A click outside the highlighted areas shows the
picture in full resolution.

You can even use IrfanView to highlight the areas and insert
the displayed coordinates into the html code.

The html code is very simple, just a lines for each picture:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

<html><head><title>Unknown persons</title><center>

<a onMouseover="document.bild1.src='1c.jpg'";
onMouseout="document.bild1.src='1b.jpg'">
<img src="1b.jpg" usemap="#menue1.map" name="bild1">

<map name="menue1.map">
<area shape=rect coords="131,164,230,264" href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 1, Person 1">
<area shape=rect coords="452,127,542,227" href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 1, Person 2">
<area shape=default href="1a.jpg">
</map>

<a onMouseover="document.bild2.src='2c.jpg'";
onMouseout="document.bild2.src='2b.jpg'">
<img src="2b.jpg" usemap="#menue2.map" name="bild2">

<map name="menue2.map">
<area shape=rect coords="234,131,297,207" href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 2, Person 1">
<area shape=rect coords="542,109,607,199" href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 2, Person 2">
<area shape=default href="2a.jpg">
</map>

</a>
</center></body></html>

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#187289

On 2025-09-06 14:27, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:
> On 9/4/2025 11:40 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> 
>> if someone clicks on the link to examine it more closely.  However,
>> there are almost 100 people unknown to me in these photos, hence my
>> interest in automating any part of the process I can. 
> 
> But for only 100 unknown people it seems to be easier to
> do it manually instead of wasting time to create an automatic
> process. But it has to be very simple to report an unknown
> name to you, because otherwise you will get no response.
> 
> I would do something like this:
> 
> https://onlib.de/temp/demo/
> 
> If you put the mouse over a picture, the unknown people are
> highlighted and if you click a highlighted part, an email is
> sent to you (with hopefully more information about this
> person). A click outside the highlighted areas shows the
> picture in full resolution.
> 
> You can even use IrfanView to highlight the areas and insert
> the displayed coordinates into the html code.
> 
> The html code is very simple, just a lines for each picture:
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> <html><head><title>Unknown persons</title><center>
> 
> <a onMouseover="document.bild1.src='1c.jpg'";
> onMouseout="document.bild1.src='1b.jpg'">
> <img src="1b.jpg" usemap="#menue1.map" name="bild1">
> 
> <map name="menue1.map">
> <area shape=rect coords="131,164,230,264" 
> href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 1, Person 1">
> <area shape=rect coords="452,127,542,227" 
> href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 1, Person 2">
> <area shape=default href="1a.jpg">
> </map>
> 
> <a onMouseover="document.bild2.src='2c.jpg'";
> onMouseout="document.bild2.src='2b.jpg'">
> <img src="2b.jpg" usemap="#menue2.map" name="bild2">
> 
> <map name="menue2.map">
> <area shape=rect coords="234,131,297,207" 
> href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 2, Person 1">
> <area shape=rect coords="542,109,607,199" 
> href="mailto:max.muster@domain.de?subject=Picture 2, Person 2">
> <area shape=default href="2a.jpg">
> </map>
> 
> </a>
> </center></body></html>

Thanks, what you suggest is clever, but I don't see how it saves me or 
family members any work, if anything it seems more ...

In my system, I have to ensure that the numbering of unknown people in 
any one photo is consecutive back-left to front-right, and also is 
consecutive throughout all the photos as each new unknown (to me) person 
is encountered, that people appearing in more than one photo always 
consistently have the same number throughout all the photos, and that 
the same number never applies to two different people throughout all the 
photos  -  these last two conditions are the major difficulty, but at 
least they can be checked by going through the photos consecutively. 
Then I would hope that family members would go through the photos 
composing an email as they go, such as ...
	1 = Distant cousin, can't remember his name;
	2 = Me;
	3 = My sister, Uvw;
	4 = My brother, Xyz;
	etc.

I would still have to do that with your system, but in the subject lines 
of the emails, which then I would have to relate back through the 
obscurity of the coding to a particular individual in a particular 
photo.  Furthermore, I still have to create a second copy of each photo, 
with the highlit areas instead of the numbers.  Finally, family members 
have to send multiple emails, rather than just one.

-- 

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: 
www.macfh.co.uk

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#187295

On 9/6/2025 4:42 PM, Java Jive wrote:
> On 2025-09-06 14:27, Herbert Kleebauer wrote:

>> I would do something like this:
>> 
>> https://onlib.de/temp/demo/
>> 
>> If you put the mouse over a picture, the unknown people are
>> highlighted and if you click a highlighted part, an email is
>> sent to you (with hopefully more information about this
>> person). A click outside the highlighted areas shows the
>> picture i


> Thanks, what you suggest is clever, but I don't see how it saves me or
> family members any work, if anything it seems more ...

Really?


> In my system, I have to ensure that the numbering of unknown people in
> any one photo is consecutive back-left to front-right, and also is

Why? Numbers doesn't matter at all. All you need is the correct name
of all the persons on the picture. If somebody knows a person, which is
not known by you, why should he enter a number. He just clicks on the
person with the mouse and enters the name.

If you have links on a web page, you don't assign numbers the links and
then ask the user to enter the number of the link he wants to open, he just
clicks on the link to open it.


> consecutive throughout all the photos as each new unknown (to me) person
> is encountered, that people appearing in more than one photo always
> consistently have the same number throughout all the photos, and that
> the same number never applies to two different people throughout all the
> photos

To find the name of a person on a picture is independent from all
the other pictures. Just let them view one picture after the other.
If they they find the same person on an other picture, then they enter
the name again. No matching numbers necessary.


> Then I would hope that family members would go through the photos
> composing an email as they go, such as ...
> 	1 = Distant cousin, can't remember his name;
> 	2 = Me;
> 	3 = My sister, Uvw;
> 	4 = My brother, Xyz;
> 	etc.

But why do the have to enter a number? Just let them click on
the person, the mail window opens, they enter the name and press
send.


> I would still have to do that with your system, but in the subject lines
> of the emails, which then I would have to relate back through the
> obscurity of the coding to a particular individual in a particular

In the subject is specified to which person on which photo the mail
belongs and in the body you will find the name. Just let your inbox
be sorted by subject (instead of date) and you have grouped all
replies to photo 1, 2, 3 ...


> photo.  Furthermore, I still have to create a second copy of each photo,
> with the highlit areas instead of the numbers.  Finally, family members

That's easily done in IrfanView. Select the face, change the brightness and
copy the position of the selection into the html file.


> have to send multiple emails, rather than just one.

But it is done automatically, the just click on the highlighted person
enter the name and press send. They don't have to open an email program
and don't have to enter a number (which could be maybe entered wrong).

And I suppose, you will store the information about the persons on the
picture into the jpg (as IPTC info). This way everybody who has a copy
of the jpg also has the information about it, without the need of an
external database. And if you want to find all pictures with a given
person, just search the IPCT info of all jpgs for his name.

If you want to generate a web page from the pictures, you also can
automatically display the IPTC information as text below the picture.



  


  

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#187186

Fokke Nauta wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have Photoshop CS6 installed on my pc. It has a license. I bought it 
> years ago. Unfortunately it didn't work well and had a problem, so I 
> decided to install it again. I did, but the licence was revoked. I can't 
> use it now.
> For a new version of Photoshop I'll have to pay a monthly amount, which 
> will continue for all the years I will use it. This will cost me far too 
> much. Is there any acceptable replacement for Photoshop?
> I'm curious.
> Thanks for your answers.
> With best regards,
> Fokke Nauta

It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week 
for work related graphics.

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#187221

On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week 
> for work related graphics.

Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
It's on my W11.)

-- 
s|b

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#187234

On Thu, 9/4/2025 8:48 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> 
>> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
>> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week 
>> for work related graphics.
> 
> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
> It's on my W11.)
> 

There are different kinds of photo editors, so they don't
all have the same "focus" on things you might want to do.
SuperPaint for example, supported pixmap and vector artworks,
although the handling of grid alignment back then was dreadful.
That was part of our workflow, before we got real DTP tools
(drawing tool right in document editor!).

While GIMP is under constant development, I use an older
version because the palettes, I'm used to the older version
now, and the behaviors of the new tool versions annoy me. I use GIMP 2.6.8
for cropping and sharpening. To scale an image, I use "lanczos3"
as the pixel treatment method (handles jaggies a bit better).

If you look at my diagrams, you can tell by looking at them,
my editing tool is not all that sophisticated. The works
someone with Photoshop would produce (some of the special
effects), would likely stand out if I was "renting" a modern
software. For example, you can start with a family shot, and
"remove" dad from the photo. And it papers over the raw edges
of the edit for you. In the old days, you might use freeform
selection tool to select damaged areas and mess them about,
and fixing such an edit manually that way could take hours.
I have also used a DNN tool (took about a day to make it run),
that can remove a vertical human from a photo. Tools like that
are immature versions of the same thing in Photoshop.

But the tool is complicated enough, you can take courses on how
to use it. Such courses are to better prepare professionals
for daily working with such things. The courses are not
particularly for casual users (maybe you need to learn how
to handle four color separations for printing). And perhaps
that's Why there is the Elements version.

   Paul

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#187238

On 09/04/2025 12:00 PM, Paul wrote:
> On Thu, 9/4/2025 8:48 AM, s|b wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>
>>> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
>>> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week
>>> for work related graphics.
>>
>> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
>> It's on my W11.)
>>

If the goal is to group files for various purposed there are many way to 
do this.   I to have be working on Family History for over 25 years.

I use various nameing systems  There are only a few of the 256 acii 
characters that can not be used in a file name, that can all be used to 
make unique file names.

If your goal it to organize by family

Use Family as the first part of the name ie "Smith-Beach-05 05 2025"
Where Smith is the family, Beach is the location, and the last digits 
are the date it was taken.  You could incroporate the picture number ie 
"47 Smith-Beach-05 05 2025"

I use this format for sequentially occurring documents "2025 02 20"
when sorted this files come up sorted by date, down to the day.

I have also used the format "Census 1910 Fort Wayne IN"  and "James 
Brown 1830 census".  The last file name ties into the profile of James 
Brown in Family Tree Maker;  in the profile where it references the 1830 
census it is easily found in the family folder of the Brown family

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#187245

On Thu, 9/4/2025 12:58 PM, knuttle wrote:
> On 09/04/2025 12:00 PM, Paul wrote:
>> On Thu, 9/4/2025 8:48 AM, s|b wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>>
>>>> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
>>>> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week
>>>> for work related graphics.
>>>
>>> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
>>> It's on my W11.)
>>>
> 
> If the goal is to group files for various purposed there are many way to do this.   I to have be working on Family History for over 25 years.
> 
> I use various nameing systems  There are only a few of the 256 acii characters that can not be used in a file name, that can all be used to make unique file names.
> 
> If your goal it to organize by family
> 
> Use Family as the first part of the name ie "Smith-Beach-05 05 2025"
> Where Smith is the family, Beach is the location, and the last digits are the date it was taken.  You could incroporate the picture number ie "47 Smith-Beach-05 05 2025"
> 
> I use this format for sequentially occurring documents "2025 02 20"
> when sorted this files come up sorted by date, down to the day.
> 
> I have also used the format "Census 1910 Fort Wayne IN"  and "James Brown 1830 census".  The last file name ties into the profile of James Brown in Family Tree Maker;  in the profile where it references the 1830 census it is easily found in the family folder of the Brown family

Java Jive is a master of computers, and I have trouble keeping up.
I'm pretty sure he has an extensive tagging system already in place.

He is seeking a transform via automation, but I don't know if
the desired transform is one that we can help with. But we
can always try (as slow as we are).

Most of my tools here, are manual operation only. They don't recognize
anything magical about tags. Only the human operator uses the tags.

You can ask an AI to write a computer program to sort things in a
particular order. But doing so is just asking for trouble, as
the AI is as careless as can be, and making errors means nothing
to it. A human assistant would never be quite that careless.

And human prepared softwares, they generally have fairly fixed patterns
to what they do. And will not necessarily match your needs. You conform
to the tool, rather than the tool conforming to you.

It is not that tools do not exist (I did a search yesterday, and there
was four pages of AI Slop on display in the results, it's a very
lucrative thing now), it's finding one with the
least constraints and the most useful feature set.

   Paul

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#187239

s|b wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> 
>> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
>> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week
>> for work related graphics.
> 
> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
> It's on my W11.)

I like the W7 paint interface better than Paint 10.
I don't currently have W11 so don't know about Paint 11.

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#187244

On Thu, 9/4/2025 1:06 PM, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> s|b wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 12:33:55 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
>>
>>> It depends on what you expect the graphics program to do.
>>> I use GIMP, MS Paint ripped out of W7, or Irfan several times per week
>>> for work related graphics.
>>
>> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
>> It's on my W11.)
> 
> I like the W7 paint interface better than Paint 10.
> I don't currently have W11 so don't know about Paint 11.

You can set up a VMWare Player and load a Win11 in it.
That's not my favorite hosting software, but it does have
the advantage that the W11 installer DVD will have less to
complain about. The Win11 installer will complain about
missing items on any older computers you try and Upgrade.

Win10 can be upgraded to Win11 for free, but subject
to the installer finding every hardware detail in order.
VMWare has its own TPM emulation inside, which is all part of
Win11 feeling at home. VMWare player is transparent enough,
windows 11 can sniff and tell the CPU does not have MBEC support,
so an 8th gen Intel processor might be a comfortable min version
for this experiment.

I have Win11 on a 4th gen processor, but that was by using rufus.ie
USB stick preparation tool to make it possible.

*******

https://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/1cs3cvg/the_mighty_vmware_workstation_pro_is_now_100_free/

To avoid registration, just find a downloader site.

When the version is bumped here, they don't properly edit the web page...
The 17.6.3 button will likely dispense the current version.

    https://www.techspot.com/downloads/189-vmware-workstation-for-windows.html

I think Carlos might have recently completed an install.

   Paul

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#187247

On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 12:06:00 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:

> > Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
> > It's on my W11.)
 
> I like the W7 paint interface better than Paint 10.
> I don't currently have W11 so don't know about Paint 11.

I seldom use it. Irfanview is my default program, although I also have
GIMP installed. Draw (LibreOffice) also comes in handy.

-- 
s|b

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#187253

s|b wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 12:06:00 -0500, Paul in Houston TX wrote:
> 
>>> Paint is still available under W10 and W11. (Or am I missing something?
>>> It's on my W11.)
>   
>> I like the W7 paint interface better than Paint 10.
>> I don't currently have W11 so don't know about Paint 11.
> 
> I seldom use it. Irfanview is my default program, although I also have
> GIMP installed. Draw (LibreOffice) also comes in handy.

Paint 11 supposedly has layers and transparencies but am not willing to 
install it to find out how good it is.
I use graphics for work and layers are a necessity... cat cracker in 
black, hydrogen reformer in yellow, etc.

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#187189

On 09/03/2025 8:47 AM, Fokke Nauta wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have Photoshop CS6 installed on my pc. It has a license. I bought it 
> years ago. Unfortunately it didn't work well and had a problem, so I 
> decided to install it again. I did, but the licence was revoked. I can't 
> use it now.
> For a new version of Photoshop I'll have to pay a monthly amount, which 
> will continue for all the years I will use it. This will cost me far too 
> much. Is there any acceptable replacement for Photoshop?
> I'm curious.
> Thanks for your answers.
> With best regards,
> Fokke Nauta
A replacement depends on your use.

I use Irfanview for nearly every thing.  It is a quite versatile program 
and is free.
-If you need to occasionally correct the color of a picture it can be 
done in Irfanview.
-Change the size, paste images together, etc they can be done in Irfanview.
-Annotate images can be done in two ways, and using drawing tool you and 
added pointers, etc. I use it as as a primitive CAD tool, for my home 
projects.
-Change the image size rotate images, rotate JPG's it can be done in 
Irfanview.
-I use it a lot with document  If I have the image of a document, there 
is a plug in for OCR.  I sometime scan a document or download an 
document image.  I can adjust the document rotation to orient the 
document to the page.  I can merge several documents into on file.

-Irfanview can open dozen of image formats and can convert them to many 
other formats.  It can open several video formats.

-Irfanview can be used as a front end for you scanner.

If you work with images, and do nothing real exotic then it probably can 
be done in Irfanview.

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