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Re: Rotated image

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  Re: Rotated image Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-08-03 21:07 +0000
    Re: Rotated image Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2020-08-03 23:45 +0100
      Re: Rotated image Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-08-03 23:35 +0000
        Re: Rotated image Jim S <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2020-08-04 00:42 +0100
          Re: Rotated image Arlen Holder <arlenholder@newmachine.com> - 2020-08-04 02:06 +0000
            Re: Rotated image Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> - 2020-08-04 10:04 +0100
      Re: Rotated image "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-08-04 02:14 +0100
        Re: Rotated image "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2020-08-04 09:09 -0400
          Re: Rotated image nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-04 10:05 -0400
          Re: Rotated image "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-08-04 22:07 +0100
            Re: Rotated image "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2020-08-04 17:35 -0400
              Re: Rotated image nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-04 18:00 -0400
              Re: Rotated image "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> - 2020-08-04 23:18 +0100
            Re: Rotated image nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2020-08-04 18:00 -0400

#156 — Re: Rotated image

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:19:25 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:

 > Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
 > 
 >> I get an inline image which is ok on my phone, but on my desktop clent 
 >> it is sideways. So when I forward it to someone else, they get the same.
 >> How do I fix it?
 > 
 > Inline image ... in WHAT?  E-mail?  A file sent via chat client?  What?
 > 
 > On your desktop PC, extract to a file, and use an editor to rotate.  You
 > didn't mention the OS on your desktop PC, but some come with an image
 > editor that will let you rotate an image.  If you don't have one, XnView
 > and Irfanview (both free but for Windows, so you'll have to find
 > something else for Linux) have some editing features, like rotation.

See this illustrative screenshot... 
<https://i.postimg.cc/wxwH4m9S/picture.jpg>

If the user is on Windows, then he can get Irfanview here:
o <https://www.irfanview.com/main_download_engl.htm>

For XnView, he can get it here:
o <https://www.xnview.com/en/xnview/>

Other freeware image editors that I have on my software archives are
o C:\software\editor\pic\artweaver
o C:\software\editor\pic\fastone
o C:\software\editor\pic\fotor
o C:\software\editor\pic\fotosketcher
o C:\software\editor\pic\ghostscript
o C:\software\editor\pic\gimp
o C:\software\editor\pic\imagemagick
o C:\software\editor\pic\inkscape
o C:\software\editor\pic\irfanview
o C:\software\editor\pic\jsware_crop
o C:\software\editor\pic\krita
o C:\software\editor\pic\morph
o C:\software\editor\pic\paint.net
o C:\software\editor\pic\paintshoppro_freeware
o C:\software\editor\pic\paintstar
o C:\software\editor\pic\photodemon
o C:\software\editor\pic\photopad
o C:\software\editor\pic\pinta
o C:\software\editor\pic\vicman_last_known_good_version
o C:\software\editor\pic\xnview
o C:\software\editor\pic\paint.lnk

He can also modify the JPEG orientation tag, if it's in the EXIF data
(the OP didn't say what platform, nor editor, nor type of image format)
he might want to make use of any of these freeware exif editors below:
o C:\software\editor\exif\analogexif
o C:\software\editor\exif\exifdatechangerlite
o C:\software\editor\exif\exifer
o C:\software\editor\exif\exifmanager
o C:\software\editor\exif\exifpilot
o C:\software\editor\exif\exiftool
o C:\software\editor\exif\exiftoolgui
o C:\software\editor\exif\exiftran
o C:\software\editor\exif\exiv2
o C:\software\editor\exif\metadata++

BTW, if he needs video editors and/or codecs, see this freeware archive:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/Wz0vLjWj/editors.jpg>

For example, these are the video editors, some of which rotate files:
o C:\software\editor\vid\adobe_premiere
o C:\software\editor\vid\avisynth
o C:\software\editor\vid\kdenlive
o C:\software\editor\vid\mpc_be
o C:\software\editor\vid\mpc_with_klite
o C:\software\editor\vid\mpc_without_klite
o C:\software\editor\vid\shotcut
o C:\software\editor\vid\videopad
o C:\software\editor\vid\vlc

And, if needed to play the video, these are my freeware codec archives:
o C:\software\editor\codec\avicodec
o C:\software\editor\codec\codecinstaller
o C:\software\editor\codec\cole2k
o C:\software\editor\codec\gspot
o C:\software\editor\codec\klite
o C:\software\editor\codec\mediainfo
o C:\software\editor\codec\screencapturecodec
o C:\software\editor\codec\videoinspector

If he needs video converters, these are in my freeware converter archive:
o C:\software\editor\convert\avidemux
o C:\software\editor\convert\avisynth
o C:\software\editor\convert\handbrake
o C:\software\editor\convert\oxelon
o C:\software\editor\convert\super
o C:\software\editor\convert\totallyfreeconverter
o C:\software\editor\convert\virtualdub

For example, to rotate video clips on Windows, Linux, or the Mac:
 <https://i.postimg.cc/BnmGGmg8/handbrake.jpg>
-- 
The experiences of others drastically reduces the high cost of freeware.

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#157

In article <rg9uap$d2b$2@news.mixmin.net>, arlenholder@newmachine.com 
says...
> 
> On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:19:25 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
> 
>  > Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>  > 
>  >> I get an inline image which is ok on my phone, but on my desktop clent 
>  >> it is sideways. So when I forward it to someone else, they get the same.
>  >> How do I fix it?
>  > 
>  > Inline image ... in WHAT?  E-mail?  A file sent via chat client?  What?
>  > 
>  > On your desktop PC, extract to a file, and use an editor to rotate.  You
>  > didn't mention the OS on your desktop PC, but some come with an image
>  > editor that will let you rotate an image.  If you don't have one, XnView
>  > and Irfanview (both free but for Windows, so you'll have to find
>  > something else for Linux) have some editing features, like rotation.
> 
> See this illustrative screenshot... 
> <https://i.postimg.cc/wxwH4m9S/picture.jpg>
> 
> If the user is on Windows, then he can get Irfanview here:
> o <https://www.irfanview.com/main_download_engl.htm>
> 
> For XnView, he can get it here:
> o <https://www.xnview.com/en/xnview/>
> 
> Other freeware image editors that I have on my software archives are
> o C:\software\editor\pic\artweaver
> o C:\software\editor\pic\fastone
> o C:\software\editor\pic\fotor
> o C:\software\editor\pic\fotosketcher
> o C:\software\editor\pic\ghostscript
> o C:\software\editor\pic\gimp
> o C:\software\editor\pic\imagemagick
> o C:\software\editor\pic\inkscape
> o C:\software\editor\pic\irfanview
> o C:\software\editor\pic\jsware_crop
> o C:\software\editor\pic\krita
> o C:\software\editor\pic\morph
> o C:\software\editor\pic\paint.net
> o C:\software\editor\pic\paintshoppro_freeware
> o C:\software\editor\pic\paintstar
> o C:\software\editor\pic\photodemon
> o C:\software\editor\pic\photopad
> o C:\software\editor\pic\pinta
> o C:\software\editor\pic\vicman_last_known_good_version
> o C:\software\editor\pic\xnview
> o C:\software\editor\pic\paint.lnk
> 
> He can also modify the JPEG orientation tag, if it's in the EXIF data

As it happens I use Faststone BUT I want my desktop clinet to do it like 
my phone does - there and then!
Stop telling me what I already know.
That's not the question I asked!

-- 
Jim S

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#158

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 23:45:21 +0100, Jim Scott wrote:

> Stop telling me what I already know.
> That's not the question I asked!

Hi Jim Scott,

Here is the entirety of the question you asked of the Android newsgroup:
 > I get an inline image which is ok on my phone, but on my desktop clent 
 > it is sideways. So when I forward it to someone else, they get the same.
 > How do I fix it?

You've been given the answer by nospam already on how to fix it.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/Dwy8erPwAwAJ>

Multiple times, in fact, he gave you the answer on how to fix it.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/sN5HgXj_AwAJ>

And Andy Burns also gave you an answer (via a question).
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/UBJENaTwAwAJ>

And VanguardLH gave you an answer to your question.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/yCi2ncDzAwAJ>

If those answers aren't what you need/want, then you may need to clarify
your question, as all of their answers are completely correct 
(as were mine).

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#159

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 23:35:02 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 23:45:21 +0100, Jim Scott wrote:
> 
>> Stop telling me what I already know.
>> That's not the question I asked!
> 
> Hi Jim Scott,
> 
> Here is the entirety of the question you asked of the Android newsgroup:
>  > I get an inline image which is ok on my phone, but on my desktop clent 
>  > it is sideways. So when I forward it to someone else, they get the same.
>  > How do I fix it?
> 
> You've been given the answer by nospam already on how to fix it.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/Dwy8erPwAwAJ>
> 
> Multiple times, in fact, he gave you the answer on how to fix it.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/sN5HgXj_AwAJ>
> 
> And Andy Burns also gave you an answer (via a question).
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/UBJENaTwAwAJ>
> 
> And VanguardLH gave you an answer to your question.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/ldnwumd0HNY/yCi2ncDzAwAJ>
> 
> If those answers aren't what you need/want, then you may need to clarify
> your question, as all of their answers are completely correct 
> (as were mine).

All the answers were perfectly correct, but the question lies with the
desktop client so I'm asking the right question in the wrong group.
-- 
Jim S

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#161

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 00:42:54 +0100, Jim S wrote:

> All the answers were perfectly correct, but the question lies with the
> desktop client so I'm asking the right question in the wrong group.

What desktop client are you using & on what OS platform?

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#165

In article <rgafql$m68$2@news.mixmin.net>, arlenholder@newmachine.com 
says...
> 
> On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 00:42:54 +0100, Jim S wrote:
> 
> > All the answers were perfectly correct, but the question lies with the
> > desktop client so I'm asking the right question in the wrong group.
> 
> What desktop client are you using & on what OS platform?

Outlook 2010 or Thunderbird on Windows 10

-- 
Jim S

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#160

On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 at 23:45:21, Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <rg9uap$d2b$2@news.mixmin.net>, arlenholder@newmachine.com
>says...
>>
>> On Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:19:25 -0500, VanguardLH wrote:
>>
>>  > Jim Scott <jim@jimXscott.co.uk> wrote:
>>  >
>>  >> I get an inline image which is ok on my phone, but on my desktop clent
>>  >> it is sideways. So when I forward it to someone else, they get the same.
>>  >> How do I fix it?
>>  >
>>  > Inline image ... in WHAT?  E-mail?  A file sent via chat client?  What?
>>  >
>>  > On your desktop PC, extract to a file, and use an editor to rotate.  You
[]
>> He can also modify the JPEG orientation tag, if it's in the EXIF data
>
>As it happens I use Faststone BUT I want my desktop clinet to do it like
>my phone does - there and then!
>Stop telling me what I already know.
>That's not the question I asked!
>
Assuming you mean this image is in an email, then you need to use a 
desktop email "clent/clinet" in which the image viewer part knows about 
orientation tags, if you want to have "inline images" appear as they do 
on your 'phone (in which the email client probably _does_ know about 
orientation tags). Similarly, if you want to be able to forward them 
without doing anything to do with them, then you need the people to whom 
you forward them to also have such a client.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Religion is a name for opinion that cannot be argued about. [Heard on Radio 4,
2010-10-18, 9:xx.]

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#166

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| Assuming you mean this image is in an email, then you need to use a
| desktop email "clent/clinet" in which the image viewer part knows about
| orientation tags, if you want to have "inline images" appear as they do
| on your 'phone (in which the email client probably _does_ know about
| orientation tags). Similarly, if you want to be able to forward them
| without doing anything to do with them, then you need the people to whom
| you forward them to also have such a client.

   Do such email programs exist? I don't think
most software even turns them. This is yet
another harebrained idea to save iPhone users
from having to understand what they're doing.
Any JPG that requires software to check the
orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.

  But it doesn't hurt to send a non-confrontational
email to the sender, suggesting they could deal with
orientation when they take the photo. 

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#167

In article <rgbmnh$q24$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | Assuming you mean this image is in an email, then you need to use a
> | desktop email "clent/clinet" in which the image viewer part knows about
> | orientation tags, if you want to have "inline images" appear as they do
> | on your 'phone (in which the email client probably _does_ know about
> | orientation tags). Similarly, if you want to be able to forward them
> | without doing anything to do with them, then you need the people to whom
> | you forward them to also have such a client.
> 
>    Do such email programs exist? I don't think
> most software even turns them.

many do.

> This is yet
> another harebrained idea to save iPhone users
> from having to understand what they're doing.

nope.

the orientation tag dates back to when digital cameras became popular,
roughly 20 years ago, *long* before iphone was even an idea, let alone
an actual product.

nobody wants to go through thousands of photos and manually rotate the
ones that are in portrait or upside-down orientation. 

> Any JPG that requires software to check the
> orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.

there is nothing faulty about using an orientation tag.

what's faulty is deliberately ignoring the tag when displaying the
image.

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#169

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 09:09:05, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> 
wrote:
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>
>| Assuming you mean this image is in an email, then you need to use a
>| desktop email "clent/clinet" in which the image viewer part knows about
>| orientation tags, if you want to have "inline images" appear as they do
>| on your 'phone (in which the email client probably _does_ know about
>| orientation tags). Similarly, if you want to be able to forward them
>| without doing anything to do with them, then you need the people to whom
>| you forward them to also have such a client.
>
>   Do such email programs exist?

I don't know. I'd be surprised if the various ways of getting an image 
taken on one 'phone to appear on another 'phone don't know about 
orientation tags, but being such an old fossil that my 'phone spends 
most of its time turned off, I rather suspect they use something other 
than the quaint thing we know as "email" for transferring such images.

> I don't think
>most software even turns them.

Possibly not email software. I think I've seen a control in IrfanView 
for whether it should heed orientation tags or not - hang on, I'll look: 
hmm, not sure I understand it, but there _are_ several references in the 
Help.

> This is yet
>another harebrained idea to save iPhone users
>from having to understand what they're doing.

To be fair, I think several standalone cameras have 
orientation-detection hardware too, and I'd be surprised if they don't 
just record a flag rather than storing the pixels in a different order.

>Any JPG that requires software to check the
>orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying there: if you acknowledge the 
_existence_ of the orientation tag (I didn't know it was part of EXIF 
but that makes sense), then what would you consider its function?

>
>  But it doesn't hurt to send a non-confrontational
>email to the sender, suggesting they could deal with
>orientation when they take the photo.
>
Good luck with that (-:. (I don't mean re confrontation, I just mean 
most people taking pictures these days - with means 'phone users - 
wouldn't have a clue what you were on about.)
>
2
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It's quickly getting to a place where privacy will be cause for suspicion.
- Mayayana in alt.windows7.general, 2018-11-6.

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#170

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote

| >Any JPG that requires software to check the
| >orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.
|
| I'm not quite sure what you're saying there: if you acknowledge the
| _existence_ of the orientation tag (I didn't know it was part of EXIF
| but that makes sense), then what would you consider its function?

  Yes, it's part of EXIF. Bit EXIF is not universally supported
and it's only in JPGs. There's just no reason to need that tag.
The camera can save the image as it's taken. Instead of doing
that they create all sorts on incompatibility. I get a lot of those
sideways images. People don't know because they're seeing it
on their iPhone where they took the picture. I don't understand
why they ever would have used such an idiotic method. Whatever
edge of the camera is up should be the top of the picture. 

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#171

In article <rgckco$u42$1@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
<mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | >Any JPG that requires software to check the
> | >orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.
> |
> | I'm not quite sure what you're saying there: if you acknowledge the
> | _existence_ of the orientation tag (I didn't know it was part of EXIF
> | but that makes sense), then what would you consider its function?
> 
>   Yes, it's part of EXIF. Bit EXIF is not universally supported

yes it is, although there are a few exceptions. 

> and it's only in JPGs.

nope. a variety of formats support exif, notably raw. jpeg is just the
most common. png added it recently.

> There's just no reason to need that tag.

yes there is. without an orientation tag, images would be sideways or
upside-down. now everything matches how it was taken. problem solved.

> The camera can save the image as it's taken.

that's exactly what it does.

> Instead of doing
> that they create all sorts on incompatibility. 

there is no incompatibility.

> I get a lot of those
> sideways images. 

use an image viewer that supports the tag and they won't be sideways.

> People don't know because they're seeing it
> on their iPhone where they took the picture. I don't understand
> why they ever would have used such an idiotic method.

because it's simple and effective.

> Whatever
> edge of the camera is up should be the top of the picture. 

which is exactly what happens.

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#173

On Tue, 4 Aug 2020 at 17:35:20, Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> 
wrote:
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote
>
>| >Any JPG that requires software to check the
>| >orientation EXIF tags is a faulty image.
>|
>| I'm not quite sure what you're saying there: if you acknowledge the
>| _existence_ of the orientation tag (I didn't know it was part of EXIF
>| but that makes sense), then what would you consider its function?
>
>  Yes, it's part of EXIF. Bit EXIF is not universally supported
>and it's only in JPGs. There's just no reason to need that tag.
>The camera can save the image as it's taken. Instead of doing
>that they create all sorts on incompatibility. I get a lot of those
>sideways images. People don't know because they're seeing it
>on their iPhone where they took the picture. I don't understand
>why they ever would have used such an idiotic method. Whatever
>edge of the camera is up should be the top of the picture.
>
>
The reason, I presume, is that it's easier to program the camera's 
firmware to just save a flag (as part of a block of EXIF data that it's 
saving anyway), than to actually change the order of pixels written into 
the file. Originally, also, it may have reduced the need for an extra 
block of RAM to hold the image to enable any such rotation to be done; 
while memory is now probably cheap enough for that not to be as much of 
a problem (though image sizes keep growing insanely so it might still 
be!), once the practice had been established, I guess it stuck.

FWIW: when you _do_ get a "sideways image", IrfanView (might need its 
plugins, but I always install those anyway) has a "lossless rotation" 
function for JPEGs, in other words it can rotate the image without an 
extra stage of decompression/recompression and thus degradation. (It 
_doesn't_ use the orientation flag: it sets that to the top left of 
whatever you rotate to.) Other image handlers can probably do it too; 
it's easy in IV, just J enter. (That's shift-J - to bring up the JPEG 
utilities menu - and enter to repeat whatever you did last time you 
brought up that menu, which in my case is almost always a rotate.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Self Test for Paranoia:  You know you have it when you can't think of anything
that's your own fault. - "The Real Bev" in comp.mobile.android, 2019-1-1

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#172

In article <mTQa9alJ4cKfFwT4@255soft.uk>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:

> 
> > This is yet
> >another harebrained idea to save iPhone users
> >from having to understand what they're doing.
> 
> To be fair, I think several standalone cameras have 
> orientation-detection hardware too, and I'd be surprised if they don't 
> just record a flag rather than storing the pixels in a different order.

digital cameras have used orientation tags for more than 20 years.

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