Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.comp.hardware > #20633 > unrolled thread

Computer turns on and then just dies

Back to article view | Back to alt.comp.hardware

Contents

  Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 16:19 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Marco Moock <mm+solani@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-11-21 16:28 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:07 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 00:18 +0800
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 17:57 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 11:42 +0800
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:47 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:34 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-22 11:47 +0800
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:48 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2024-11-23 12:12 +0800
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-23 15:18 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-21 16:35 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 12:43 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 19:56 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 17:32 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 12:22 -0600
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-22 20:01 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 18:03 -0600
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-21 15:58 -0500
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-21 23:28 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-22 07:24 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-22 10:20 -0600
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-23 12:09 +0100
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-23 07:07 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:12 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 15:21 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 14:58 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-25 17:33 -0500
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-26 18:44 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-26 16:31 -0600
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 15:38 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-26 21:04 -0500
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:01 +0100
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-27 10:19 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-23 14:28 -0600
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 17:10 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 15:27 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 15:08 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 14:38 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-26 16:37 -0600
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 16:05 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-24 16:51 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-24 16:03 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-25 15:03 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-25 18:09 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 12:28 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-27 15:45 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-28 17:17 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-28 11:07 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-28 19:30 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-28 19:34 -0600
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-29 05:21 -0500
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-29 11:35 -0600
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 13:49 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 17:11 +0100
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-29 15:01 -0500
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-29 21:46 -0600
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 12:21 +0100
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-30 09:15 -0600
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-30 17:16 +0100
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-30 17:40 -0500
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:43 +0100
                          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-02 14:15 -0600
                            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 21:19 +0100
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-01 08:26 -0600
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-01 13:23 -0500
                        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 11:40 +0100
                          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-02 14:06 -0600
                            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-02 21:30 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-11-30 11:31 -0500
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-11-30 12:22 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-11-29 12:46 +0100
    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-04 17:41 +0100
      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-04 14:14 -0600
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-04 18:28 -0500
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-05 09:30 -0600
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-05 11:11 -0500
        Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-06 17:43 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-06 17:45 +0100
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-06 16:46 -0600
              Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 14:11 +0100
                Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-07 09:46 -0600
                  Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 17:02 +0100
                    Re: Computer turns on and then just dies VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2024-12-07 11:40 -0600
                      Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-09 15:54 +0100
          Re: Computer turns on and then just dies Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2024-12-06 20:43 -0500
            Re: Computer turns on and then just dies "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2024-12-07 15:27 +0100

Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →

#20673

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Nov 2024 14:28:54 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:
> 
>> Here's another guy gobbing
>> on way too much thermal paste: https://youtu.be/a0LlMDk_ljQ?t=12.
> 
> This guy is doing a lot better, I think:
> <https://youtu.be/eyNTXDoLyEU?feature=shared>
> 
> I don't think my MX-4 comes with a spatula, but I've cut 1/3 of a
> plastic card which I'll be using.

The "card" should be thin and pliable.  The spatula is okay, but I
prefer a piece of a mylar sheet.  The amount the YT author used is the
right amount.  I apply until the layer is just translucent, and then
twist the HSF onto the CPU plate while pressing down.  Then I remove to
gauge my result.  I have to clean the HSF and CPU again, and do new
paste while making an adjustment if my prior effort deficient.  Unless
you are building computers, and need to save on the paste, even a tiny
tube gives you 5 to 10 applications, or more, which is plenty to get it
right for just one setup.  You're not gluing the HSF to the CPU, so you
can repeat until you get it right.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20678

On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 16:37:21 -0600, VanguardLH wrote:

> The "card" should be thin and pliable.  The spatula is okay, but I
> prefer a piece of a mylar sheet.  The amount the YT author used is the
> right amount.  I apply until the layer is just translucent, and then
> twist the HSF onto the CPU plate while pressing down.  Then I remove to
> gauge my result.  I have to clean the HSF and CPU again, and do new
> paste while making an adjustment if my prior effort deficient.  Unless
> you are building computers, and need to save on the paste, even a tiny
> tube gives you 5 to 10 applications, or more, which is plenty to get it
> right for just one setup.  You're not gluing the HSF to the CPU, so you
> can repeat until you get it right.

I practiced a bit and then just went ahead. I thought it went pretty
good, but... as you and Paul already stated: this isn't what causing the
problem.

I just read Paul's reaction and apparently I forgot to mention the video
card.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20659

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:19:46 +0100, s|b wrote:

> When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on the
> motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then dies.

These should be all components:


CPU: AMD-A8-3870 BLACK EDITION WITH RADEON HD 6550D

Tower/PSU: ANTEC-NSK4482B-EC 380 WATT

Graphic card: AMD-AP38G160U2K

SSD: INTEL-SSDSC2CW120A310 120GB 520 SERIES 34NM SATA III2 .

HDD: WESTERN DIGITAL-WD5000AAKX 500GB 16MB SATA600 7200RPM

CD/DVD (re)writer: LITE-ON-IHAS122-18 SATA 22X DVD-RW

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20664

On Sun, 11/24/2024 10:51 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:19:46 +0100, s|b wrote:
> 
>> When I flip the switch of the power supply the standby power led on the
>> motherboard (ASUS F1A75) turns on, stays on for a bit and then dies.
> 
> These should be all components:
> 
> 
> CPU: AMD-A8-3870 BLACK EDITION WITH RADEON HD 6550D
> 
> Tower/PSU: ANTEC-NSK4482B-EC 380 WATT
> 
> Graphic card: AMD-AP38G160U2K
> 
> SSD: INTEL-SSDSC2CW120A310 120GB 520 SERIES 34NM SATA III2 .
> 
> HDD: WESTERN DIGITAL-WD5000AAKX 500GB 16MB SATA600 7200RPM
> 
> CD/DVD (re)writer: LITE-ON-IHAS122-18 SATA 22X DVD-RW
> 

That is not too heavy of a load.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20667

On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 16:03:35 -0500, Paul wrote:

> That is not too heavy of a load.

If I get it to work again I'm probably going to use it to test some more
Linux distributions. In the past I was that guy in the family people
went to 'to fix their computer'. Nowadays everybody has a smartphone and
they don't need me anymore. So maybe it's finally time I can ditch
Windows (W11) and switch to Linux.

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20670

On Mon, 11/25/2024 9:03 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 16:03:35 -0500, Paul wrote:
> 
>> That is not too heavy of a load.
> 
> If I get it to work again I'm probably going to use it to test some more
> Linux distributions. In the past I was that guy in the family people
> went to 'to fix their computer'. Nowadays everybody has a smartphone and
> they don't need me anymore. So maybe it's finally time I can ditch
> Windows (W11) and switch to Linux.
> 

Each sub-ecosystem in Linux has its own personality.

As a newcomer, you would select one of the less aggressive groups
of people, select an OS where people actually help one another.

The other ingredient, would be, is the person making the distro,
making it for the wrong reasons ? The ones working on "commercial gain"
or "wishing to have their company complete an IPO stock offering",
these will not be the best makers of Linux. They will inject
all sorts of handcuff garbage which promotes their business
interests, and not your ease of use.

Sure, I recommend you test a few Linux OSes. Some have a deliberate
interest in your comfort with the project (Zorin Lite, the free version).
Zorin is a commercial project, where other SKUs are the "fancy" version
of Zorin Lite. Zorin seeks to promote "direct Linux sales", not
a "support contract $150 per year please" model. Whereas Ubuntu,
the Canonical eventual goal is a support contract.

At one time, Ubuntu existed to make a distro for end users,
and there wasn't an initial rush to commercialize it instantly.
But Shuttleworth wants to "cash out". He has been funding this
thing for decades, from his personal wealth, and now, he
wants the money back :-) He's invested a lot of himself in
the project, and when his attempts to float an IPO failed,
he took some of the investor comments to heart, and is now
building a "Red Hat" competitor of sorts. And this is why,
if Ubuntu bites you on the ass, you know why it is biting
you on the ass.

         Debian              35000 packages, distro has the odd rough edge
          /   \__
      Ubuntu     \           Uses Debian, better patch fit/finish on programs, "wants to be RedHat"
    /    \        \
   /   LinuxMint   \         End user focus, will use Ubuntu until no longer tenable, all free distros (no Snaps)
   |                \
   |               LMDE      Debian-based version of LinuxMint, for "life without Ubuntu"
   |
 Zorin                       End user focus, free and paid SKUs available (need paid SKUs to pay for bandwidth)

And this is how you have to know your neighborhood, to plan
for the future when the future arrives.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20692

On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 18:09:12 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Each sub-ecosystem in Linux has its own personality.
> 
> As a newcomer, you would select one of the less aggressive groups
> of people, select an OS where people actually help one another.

I don't even remember what I started with. I think it was Knoppix. I've
tried Ubuntu, Xubuntu, Tails, Puppy Linux, ... Last thing I tried was
Linux Mint. Mostly live dvd/usb, but I actually installed some on older
computers.
 

> Sure, I recommend you test a few Linux OSes. Some have a deliberate
> interest in your comfort with the project (Zorin Lite, the free version).
> Zorin is a commercial project, where other SKUs are the "fancy" version
> of Zorin Lite. Zorin seeks to promote "direct Linux sales", not
> a "support contract $150 per year please" model. Whereas Ubuntu,
> the Canonical eventual goal is a support contract.

Yeah, somewhere along the road I picked up Ubuntu was a no-no.
 
> 
>          Debian              35000 packages, distro has the odd rough edge
>           /   \__
>       Ubuntu     \           Uses Debian, better patch fit/finish on programs, "wants to be RedHat"
>     /    \        \
>    /   LinuxMint   \         End user focus, will use Ubuntu until no longer tenable, all free distros (no Snaps)
>    |                \
>    |               LMDE      Debian-based version of LinuxMint, for "life without Ubuntu"
>    |
>  Zorin                       End user focus, free and paid SKUs available (need paid SKUs to pay for bandwidth)
> 
> And this is how you have to know your neighborhood, to plan
> for the future when the future arrives.

Looking forward to some playing. Probably going to use VNC; cause I'm
now using 2 screens, 2 keyboards, 2 mice, ...

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20676

On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 16:51:38 +0100, s|b wrote:

> Graphic card: AMD-AP38G160U2K

Ugh, these are the DDR3 modules. This is the graphic card:

ASUS-EAH5450 SILENT/DI/ 512MB GDDR PCI EXPRESS

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20680

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 16:19:46 +0100, s|b wrote:

> I checked all cables and they should be fine. What could be causing this
> and how to solve?

First of all: my apologies to Paul and VanguardLH. I should have just
listened to you both and went for the PSU instead of stubbornly playing
with thermal paste.

Second: you were both right, it was the PSU after all. I tried the old
one and (almost) everything works. I can even boot the Windows 7 that
was installed on a SSD. So tnx, guys, Paul in particular, for sticking
with me.

And I'm saying /almost/, because the PSU only has one SATA cable and I
need at least 3 (SSD with W7, SATA hdd for data, SATA for
CD/DVD-(re)writer). So I'm looking to buy a (cheap) PSU that will
support at least 4 SATA (SATA6?) devices. I think non modular would be
the easiest?

If someone could point me to one, maybe available at Amazon, because
it's no use if I'm going ask to have look at stores that only show
Dutch. (-:

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20681

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> And I'm saying /almost/, because the PSU only has one SATA cable and I
> need at least 3 (SSD with W7, SATA hdd for data, SATA for
> CD/DVD-(re)writer). So I'm looking to buy a (cheap) PSU that will
> support at least 4 SATA (SATA6?) devices. I think non modular would be
> the easiest?

After Paul responds, you might get away with just using a Y-adapter
cable (aka power splitter): one sata power connector on one end, and
multiple sata power connectors on the other end.  Typically it is a 1 to
2 arrangment, but you could use another Y-adapter to go 1 to 2, and then
another 1 to 2, to give you 3 total.  Presumably the sata power and sata
data pins are not all in 1 connector, but instead the sata power
(between PSU and drive) is a separate connector from the sata data
connector (between drive and mobo).

You might not get enough length to reach all drives with just a chained
1-to-2 splitter.  There are sata power splitters that have 4 and even 5
connectors (not including the 1 that mates to the PSU sata power
connector) that can reach 24" in length.  The placement of the
in-between connectors may not be optimal for all drives, but 4 of them
in a 5 connector cable should reach your drives.

https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=sata+power+splitter

You would have to check the power spec on the SATA output from the PSU
to ensure it will handle the load for all 4 of your drives.  Not an
issue with SSDs, but the spinners (HDD and optic) have a startup surge
current.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20682

On Thu, 11/28/2024 12:07 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
> s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> And I'm saying /almost/, because the PSU only has one SATA cable and I
>> need at least 3 (SSD with W7, SATA hdd for data, SATA for
>> CD/DVD-(re)writer). So I'm looking to buy a (cheap) PSU that will
>> support at least 4 SATA (SATA6?) devices. I think non modular would be
>> the easiest?
> 
> After Paul responds, you might get away with just using a Y-adapter
> cable (aka power splitter): one sata power connector on one end, and
> multiple sata power connectors on the other end.  Typically it is a 1 to
> 2 arrangment, but you could use another Y-adapter to go 1 to 2, and then
> another 1 to 2, to give you 3 total.  Presumably the sata power and sata
> data pins are not all in 1 connector, but instead the sata power
> (between PSU and drive) is a separate connector from the sata data
> connector (between drive and mobo).
> 
> You might not get enough length to reach all drives with just a chained
> 1-to-2 splitter.  There are sata power splitters that have 4 and even 5
> connectors (not including the 1 that mates to the PSU sata power
> connector) that can reach 24" in length.  The placement of the
> in-between connectors may not be optimal for all drives, but 4 of them
> in a 5 connector cable should reach your drives.
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=sata+power+splitter
> 
> You would have to check the power spec on the SATA output from the PSU
> to ensure it will handle the load for all 4 of your drives.  Not an
> issue with SSDs, but the spinners (HDD and optic) have a startup surge
> current.
> 

The SATA pins are rated for one ampere per contact, three contacts
in parallel, 3A max per rail. The SATA power design assumes power
is not being drawn from all three rails at the same time. Usually
only two of three rails have a power demand (not that it matters).

If used for splitting, you would check what kind of current the hard drive
draws. The max current is at spinup, and can be 1.5-2A or so. Spinning
up two drives on a SATA to SATA splitter would be the limit that way.
This is why I don't recommend 1-to-3 or long chains of these for fanout.

                            SATA-power
                             /
             SATA-power -----             1-to-2 is safe for this
                             \
                            SATA-power          This cabling has 3.3V, 5V, 12V on it

The power supply likely has Molex. Molex can take 6 to 10 amps,
depending on nearest-neighbors (a Molex 1x4 is a short connector
so not a thermal issue). The thicker the gauge of wire, the
closer to 10 amps you get. I generally assume 6 amps per wire in
conversations here (as the wire gauges used may not be the best).
This kind of thing would work. The 3.3V rail which is missing
this way, is not usually a problem. Only the microSATA drives
potentially used 3.3V (there are no longer microSATA at retail).

   ----+
       |               SATA-power
       |                /
       +--- Molex ------
       |                \
       |               SATA-power
       |
       |               SATA-power
       |                /
       +--- Molex ------
                        \
                       SATA-power          This cabling has 5V, 12V (suited to most regular SATA)

If you use too many adapters sequentially, eventually
the 12V supply falls to 11V at the end of the cabling.
If you hear "clicking sounds" from your hard drive, this
is a sign the 12V supply is approaching 11V and the drive
will not reliably stay rotating that way. Shorten the
chain of cables, rearrange the chain, and the clicking
will stop. This has happened to be *twice* :-)

*******

3 Molex, 3 SATA, 2 PCIe   $55   EVGA 600 BR 100-BR-0600-K1 600 W

https://www.newegg.com/evga-600-br-100-br-0600-k1-600-w-80-plus-bronze-certified/p/N82E16817438146

Similar  Thermaltake, power rating not as nice, vent design not so good, 600 W Gold, $59

https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx2-gold-ps-tpd-0600nnfagu-2-600-w-80-plus-gold-certified/p/N82E16817153415

You'll have to check the customer reviews, and see if anyone has figured out the real manufacturer.
The lower-price items can be contract manufactured by a competitor.

There are some Silverstone supplies, but the prices are likely to be too high.

*******

Summary:

See if there are enough Molex connectors, to use two of these, to power four drives.
Don't buy this particular one, wires might not be long enough.

   "Molex to two SATA, no metal clamp on these ones"

   https://c1.neweggimages.com/productimage/nb1280/A20PS2307010DGQDZC4.jpg

Check the wire length on the items, to make sure the wires will
reach all the drives.

If you look in the mouth of the SATA, some 15 pin SATA on extenders, are missing
3 of the contacts, and only 12 contacts are loaded in the connector. I like
to buy products that load *all* the contacts (15 of them), for equal insertion
force across the connector. The only way to look in the mouth of the connector,
is to shop retail and inspect the damn things :-)

The metal clamp is unnecessary, and there isn't always a place for the
clamp to clamp on to. The metal clamp is good on the seven pin data cable.

If it comes with a metal clamp, well OK, but the metal clamp is not
a necessity and none of my adapters have that clamp on them. The retention
force on the 15 pin ensures it is not going to fall off.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20683

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On Thu, 11/28/2024 12:07 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> And I'm saying /almost/, because the PSU only has one SATA cable and I
>>> need at least 3 (SSD with W7, SATA hdd for data, SATA for
>>> CD/DVD-(re)writer). So I'm looking to buy a (cheap) PSU that will
>>> support at least 4 SATA (SATA6?) devices. I think non modular would be
>>> the easiest?
>> 
>> After Paul responds, you might get away with just using a Y-adapter
>> cable (aka power splitter): one sata power connector on one end, and
>> multiple sata power connectors on the other end.  Typically it is a 1 to
>> 2 arrangment, but you could use another Y-adapter to go 1 to 2, and then
>> another 1 to 2, to give you 3 total.  Presumably the sata power and sata
>> data pins are not all in 1 connector, but instead the sata power
>> (between PSU and drive) is a separate connector from the sata data
>> connector (between drive and mobo).
>> 
>> You might not get enough length to reach all drives with just a chained
>> 1-to-2 splitter.  There are sata power splitters that have 4 and even 5
>> connectors (not including the 1 that mates to the PSU sata power
>> connector) that can reach 24" in length.  The placement of the
>> in-between connectors may not be optimal for all drives, but 4 of them
>> in a 5 connector cable should reach your drives.
>> 
>> https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=sata+power+splitter
>> 
>> You would have to check the power spec on the SATA output from the PSU
>> to ensure it will handle the load for all 4 of your drives.  Not an
>> issue with SSDs, but the spinners (HDD and optic) have a startup surge
>> current.
>> 
> 
> The SATA pins are rated for one ampere per contact, three contacts
> in parallel, 3A max per rail. The SATA power design assumes power
> is not being drawn from all three rails at the same time. Usually
> only two of three rails have a power demand (not that it matters).
> 
> If used for splitting, you would check what kind of current the hard drive
> draws. The max current is at spinup, and can be 1.5-2A or so. Spinning
> up two drives on a SATA to SATA splitter would be the limit that way.
> This is why I don't recommend 1-to-3 or long chains of these for fanout.
> 
>                             SATA-power
>                              /
>              SATA-power -----             1-to-2 is safe for this
>                              \
>                             SATA-power          This cabling has 3.3V, 5V, 12V on it
> 
> The power supply likely has Molex. Molex can take 6 to 10 amps,
> depending on nearest-neighbors (a Molex 1x4 is a short connector
> so not a thermal issue). The thicker the gauge of wire, the
> closer to 10 amps you get. I generally assume 6 amps per wire in
> conversations here (as the wire gauges used may not be the best).
> This kind of thing would work. The 3.3V rail which is missing
> this way, is not usually a problem. Only the microSATA drives
> potentially used 3.3V (there are no longer microSATA at retail).
> 
>    ----+
>        |               SATA-power
>        |                /
>        +--- Molex ------
>        |                \
>        |               SATA-power
>        |
>        |               SATA-power
>        |                /
>        +--- Molex ------
>                         \
>                        SATA-power          This cabling has 5V, 12V (suited to most regular SATA)
> 
> If you use too many adapters sequentially, eventually
> the 12V supply falls to 11V at the end of the cabling.
> If you hear "clicking sounds" from your hard drive, this
> is a sign the 12V supply is approaching 11V and the drive
> will not reliably stay rotating that way. Shorten the
> chain of cables, rearrange the chain, and the clicking
> will stop. This has happened to be *twice* :-)
> 
> *******
> 
> 3 Molex, 3 SATA, 2 PCIe   $55   EVGA 600 BR 100-BR-0600-K1 600 W
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/evga-600-br-100-br-0600-k1-600-w-80-plus-bronze-certified/p/N82E16817438146
> 
> Similar  Thermaltake, power rating not as nice, vent design not so good, 600 W Gold, $59
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-toughpower-gx2-gold-ps-tpd-0600nnfagu-2-600-w-80-plus-gold-certified/p/N82E16817153415
> 
> You'll have to check the customer reviews, and see if anyone has figured out the real manufacturer.
> The lower-price items can be contract manufactured by a competitor.
> 
> There are some Silverstone supplies, but the prices are likely to be too high.
> 
> *******
> 
> Summary:
> 
> See if there are enough Molex connectors, to use two of these, to power four drives.
> Don't buy this particular one, wires might not be long enough.
> 
>    "Molex to two SATA, no metal clamp on these ones"
> 
>    https://c1.neweggimages.com/productimage/nb1280/A20PS2307010DGQDZC4.jpg
> 
> Check the wire length on the items, to make sure the wires will
> reach all the drives.
> 
> If you look in the mouth of the SATA, some 15 pin SATA on extenders, are missing
> 3 of the contacts, and only 12 contacts are loaded in the connector. I like
> to buy products that load *all* the contacts (15 of them), for equal insertion
> force across the connector. The only way to look in the mouth of the connector,
> is to shop retail and inspect the damn things :-)
> 
> The metal clamp is unnecessary, and there isn't always a place for the
> clamp to clamp on to. The metal clamp is good on the seven pin data cable.
> 
> If it comes with a metal clamp, well OK, but the metal clamp is not
> a necessity and none of my adapters have that clamp on them. The retention
> force on the 15 pin ensures it is not going to fall off.
> 
>    Paul

Some PSUs still have cabling for floppy drives.  There are adapters to
change to sata power.  Are those safe to use for sata power?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20684

On Thu, 11/28/2024 8:34 PM, VanguardLH wrote:

> 
> Some PSUs still have cabling for floppy drives.  There are adapters to
> change to sata power.  Are those safe to use for sata power?
> 

There might be one of those floppy connectors on the supply.
Maybe a supply older than my collection, had one of those on the end of both looms.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html

  "The four pin floppy drive cable showed up
   when PCs started including 3.5 inch floppy drives."

   Socket housing   Socket          Maximum current per circuit
   AMP 171822-4     AMP 170262-1    3 amps

That means you could draw 3 amps from +12V and 3 amps from +5V.
At a stretch, that's two hard drives off one "adapter",
assuming you can find a "floppy connector to two SATA 15p"
adapter. It is basically the same situation, as a SATA to two SATA
adapter.

At one time, the power footprint of a hard drive was close to 40W.
(That's also why the sleds had three fans blowing across the surface.)
Drawing 3 amps from +12V was a real possibility. Today, the small capacity
boot drives, the manufacturer wants those to spin up in five seconds,
so the current will be closer to 2 amps on +12V. For the
higher capacity drives, with more platters, more mass, they
turn the max current down, and make use of a 20-25 second
startup before those are ready. Some of the BIOS are set
to time out after 35 seconds, which gives some idea how
much faster than necessary the boot drive is at 5 seconds.

I haven't timed my single sample 18TB drive, but after it spins up,
it still does not ID itself, and it insists on rattling the
heads and doing self test, before it'll talk to anyone.

*******

They spin up forty five identical 4TB Seagate drives at once and it draws 50 amps
on the +12V rail. That works out to a bit more than 1 amp of spinup current.
That's not considered a boot drive, which is why the current is that low
at start. This measurement is not being done with staggered spin enabled
in the pod.

https://www.45drives.com/blog/storage/the-power-behind-large-data-storage/

I measured two small boot drives:

WD5003AZEX  1.64A startup current on +12V (yellow)
WD1003FZEX  1.65A startup current on +12V (yellow)

The interval at full current was so short, I missed detecting
the peak on the second drive. And needed a second power up sequence
to catch it. The time spent at 1.65A might be a second or so.
with some preamble/postamble on either side of that.

Both of those drives are 1 platter. In fact, at the end of life
of the WD5003, they were making then with 1TB platters and
throwing away half the capacity, in order to make drives. Of
three of that model I bought, one was short stroked. The heads only
go from the outer diameter of the 1TB single platter, to the middle of the
single platter. Which is cool and all.

It's possible an older drive, has a bit higher current.

Even if two drives off one source exceeds the current by a bit,
the duration of a second or so at that level, isn't going to hurt anything.
It's not a thermally significant interval.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20688

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> VanguardLH wrote:
> 
>> Some PSUs still have cabling for floppy drives.  There are adapters to
>> change to sata power.  Are those safe to use for sata power?
> 
> There might be one of those floppy connectors on the supply.
> Maybe a supply older than my collection, had one of those on the end of both looms.
> 
> http://www.playtool.com/pages/psuconnectors/connectors.html
> 
>   "The four pin floppy drive cable showed up
>    when PCs started including 3.5 inch floppy drives."
> 
>    Socket housing   Socket          Maximum current per circuit
>    AMP 171822-4     AMP 170262-1    3 amps
> 
> That means you could draw 3 amps from +12V and 3 amps from +5V.
> At a stretch, that's two hard drives off one "adapter",
> assuming you can find a "floppy connector to two SATA 15p"
> adapter. It is basically the same situation, as a SATA to two SATA
> adapter.

For floppy to SATA adapter, I've seen a 1-to-1 adapter: just 1 SATA
connector.  I've probably got one in my computer parts drawer.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61Jy4OQLe8L.jpg

To its SATA end, a 1-to-2 (one SATA to double SATA) cable could get
used.  That would put 2 SATA drives on the 1 floppy output from the PSU.
Depends on how old is the OP's PSU as to whether or not it has a floppy
power output.  

Looks like his ASUS F1A75 was introduced around 2011.  I didn't see a
floppy header on that mobo.  It is also a mini-ITX mobo which affords
little expandability.  Looks like the OP is interested in getting a new
PSU, anyway.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20686

On Thu, 28 Nov 2024 19:30:42 -0500, Paul wrote:

> 3 Molex, 3 SATA, 2 PCIe   $55   EVGA 600 BR 100-BR-0600-K1 600 W
> 
> https://www.newegg.com/evga-600-br-100-br-0600-k1-600-w-80-plus-bronze-certified/p/N82E16817438146

I've checked on amazon.com.be and practically all EVGA PSUs are
'temporary unavailable'.
 
> Summary:
> 
> See if there are enough Molex connectors, to use two of these, to power four drives.
> Don't buy this particular one, wires might not be long enough.

I don't really need the Molex connectors, do I? It seems easier to just
buy a new PSU with at least 4 SATA cables.
 
Would this one do? It's only 42 euro.

Thermaltake Tr2 S 500W

<https://t.ly/6oL_g>

<https://www.amazon.com.be/-/nl/Thermaltake-Tr2-500W-Pc-Voeding-Zwart/dp/B016WFYCD2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2E4Z3BRYTBQ6C&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.jHC-OXbelSX_Gh1g0tjmNKgLs6PZWVj1E2rRbwx4gNbwSXIgqorHCl57DIU_Q-YBs2nrG6mKRiTY7ia00yLrqmZAlz5t52F2wybHbvp2xDRETUZcGlD7DDDTfdS7lo6MKttq42gKmVj8iBFgRZ3kp3pWX_CTASl05OPMIaFMrGTR90OxKvqqJYHoO6zRmmCPj4QmKQ3shCHY_QBuGtesLBowioCZjVhBQpI2vxKz6GrmtJn3qBpdoq0HfEBRtfW128yfBmooVOBdEERfuQ_1J1w-HiPlMtZtbCWc91YefUg.6rB3xCjCWUdUCBwofambmoKUQpN5jPD3BGsgPwzE0R4&dib_tag=se&keywords=Thermaltake%2BToughpower%2BGX2%2B80%2B&qid=1732883943&rnid=27967905031&s=computers&sprefix=thermaltake%2Btoughpower%2Bgx2%2B80%2B%2Caps%2C83&sr=1-1&th=1>

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20687

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 13:49:18 +0100, s|b wrote:

> Would this one do? It's only 42 euro.
> 
> Thermaltake Tr2 S 500W

Ugh. I just saw it has 4 SATA connectors, but it's all on one cable.
Don't want that.

<https://www.thermaltake.com/tr2-s-500w-dc-to-dc-version.html>

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20689

On Fri, 11/29/2024 11:11 AM, s|b wrote:
> On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 13:49:18 +0100, s|b wrote:
> 
>> Would this one do? It's only 42 euro.
>>
>> Thermaltake Tr2 S 500W
> 
> Ugh. I just saw it has 4 SATA connectors, but it's all on one cable.
> Don't want that.
> 
> <https://www.thermaltake.com/tr2-s-500w-dc-to-dc-version.html>
> 

I like to use adapters anyway :-)

It's the flexibility of the cable I like. The adapter uses
different wire than the "less flexible" PSU.

Some of the "beauty queens" who hide all the wiring inside the
computer case, and tape the wire to the metal with a ton of
pieces of tape (out of sight), I don't bother doing things
like that. The wire in mine just hangs down. I restrain wires
to prevent them from falling into fans. To me, a computer
case, it's an appliance, it's not a LED lit aquarium :-)

You can use the SATA loom to do two drives if you wish.

Then use the Molex loom and a single Molex-to-two-SATA
for the other two drives.

Technically, the PSU I'm currently using, has all the connectors
I need, but because the wire won't bend nicely for the work,
I am using two adapters, just to make plugging and unplugging
two drives easier (the boot drive, the drive I'm "working on"
as a technician machine). My optical drive is in an enclosure
and runs off a wall wart, and I can move that to any machine not
having an optical drive.

*******

On the ThermalTake URL, you can snip them this short and then
you don't need a link shortener :-)

https://www.amazon.com.be/-/nl/Thermaltake-Tr2-500W-Pc-Voeding-Zwart/dp/B016WFYCD2

This is the missing picture from the Amazon page. The +5V is a little weak,
but not likely to be a total disaster. I like then to cover 20A on the lower
rails. To get the efficiency rating, the supplies would be double-forward-conversion
(the 12V main circuit, powers a small plugin card that makes the 3.3V and 5V supplies).
That's different to how the Pavouk picture makes the electricity.

   https://c1.neweggimages.com/productimage/nb1280/BRESD23091015WV52E6.jpg

Cabling picture is on the Thermaltake website.

   https://www.thermaltake.com/pub/media/wysiwyg/key3/db/products/psu/Smart500W/pic3.jpg

       Peripheral 4 pin   three connectors  <=== Molex, use a single Molex to two SATA adapter if you want
       SATA 15 pin        six connectors

The SATA in the picture is mislabeled as "4 pin" when the connector is a 15p
and the cabling will be the compression fit ribbon-style connectors.

the supply has plenty of 12V current, and the description isn't likely
to be entirely accurate. While the supply has a 35A transformer, the
Molex loom likely has a 20A overcurrent detection, and the whole
35A would not flow down the hard drive cable :-) That's for safety
during short circuits.

We had an incident in the lab, with a power supply with a 100A output,
and it neglected to have that safety feature. Pretty impressive. I'm surprised
my co-worker was not injured (like, a burned retina). His head was inside
some machinery, when the short happened :-/ Having current limiters on looms
is a good idea.

   Paul

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20690

Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> I like to use adapters anyway :-)
> 
> It's the flexibility of the cable I like. The adapter uses
> different wire than the "less flexible" PSU.
> 
> Some of the "beauty queens" who hide all the wiring inside the
> computer case, and tape the wire to the metal with a ton of
> pieces of tape (out of sight), I don't bother doing things
> like that. The wire in mine just hangs down. I restrain wires
> to prevent them from falling into fans. To me, a computer
> case, it's an appliance, it's not a LED lit aquarium :-)

The panels on my cases are solid (opaque).  However, I'm still neat in
routing the cables not only to avoid them getting into fans, but also to
prevent them from blocking or slowing air flow.  Typically I buy cases
that have both side panels removable.  Then, with the right-side panel
removed, I can route the cabling underneath the mobo plate to return
inside the case nearer the endpoint for the cable connection.  I can
also tuck extra cable lengths into the unused drive bays.  I can't see
that tape will ever last long enough to permanently retain the cables.
However, there are self-stick cable stays or clips that can help hold
the cables out of harm and out of air flow.

I like modular PSUs, so I only connect the minimum number of cable looms
to the PSU as are needed for actual connections to the mobo and devices.

Also, the shroud around the cable harness is not for shielding, just for
looks.  You can slice that off to make the harness a lot more flexible.

Some folks like a LED aquarium for the case.  Their mobo has pretty
LEDs, so do the fans, and a slew of other LEDs to prettify the interior.
In fact, some folks attach Christmas lights (LED tubes) for more color.
And RGB control in the BIOS lets them have the LEDs change color, change
at intervals, or change according to the sound output.  Took me awhile
to figure out how to disable most of all that prettify crap on a new
build.  Looks at all the users that buy prettily colored keyboards, or
noisy up their Windows desktop with slide shows or changing pics which
afford no information, just inane customization.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20691

On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 15:01:02 -0500, Paul wrote:

> Technically, the PSU I'm currently using, has all the connectors
> I need, but because the wire won't bend nicely for the work,
> I am using two adapters, just to make plugging and unplugging
> two drives easier (the boot drive, the drive I'm "working on"
> as a technician machine). My optical drive is in an enclosure
> and runs off a wall wart, and I can move that to any machine not
> having an optical drive.

I'm just going to go with the advice I got alternate.be. Told them what
the old PSU was and asked what to replace it with, considering I needed
at least 4 SATA connections. They advised this:

<https://www.alternate.be/Sharkoon/SHP-Bronze-500-W-voeding/html/product/1586770>

<https://assetscdn.loadbee.com/catalogue/zasu2wmd4974dnnm/www.sharkoon.com/Download//Cases_and_Power/PSU/SHP_Bronze/dmn_SHP-Bronze_04.pdf>

<https://en.sharkoon.com/product/SHPBRONZE#specs>

I just want ahead and ordered it (for about 45 euro).

-- 
s|b

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#20693

s|b <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> On Fri, 29 Nov 2024 15:01:02 -0500, Paul wrote:
> 
>> Technically, the PSU I'm currently using, has all the connectors
>> I need, but because the wire won't bend nicely for the work,
>> I am using two adapters, just to make plugging and unplugging
>> two drives easier (the boot drive, the drive I'm "working on"
>> as a technician machine). My optical drive is in an enclosure
>> and runs off a wall wart, and I can move that to any machine not
>> having an optical drive.
> 
> I'm just going to go with the advice I got alternate.be. Told them what
> the old PSU was and asked what to replace it with, considering I needed
> at least 4 SATA connections. They advised this:
> 
> <https://www.alternate.be/Sharkoon/SHP-Bronze-500-W-voeding/html/product/1586770>
> 
> <https://assetscdn.loadbee.com/catalogue/zasu2wmd4974dnnm/www.sharkoon.com/Download//Cases_and_Power/PSU/SHP_Bronze/dmn_SHP-Bronze_04.pdf>
> 
> <https://en.sharkoon.com/product/SHPBRONZE#specs>
> 
> I just want ahead and ordered it (for about 45 euro).

FYI, Sharkoon doesn't manufacture anything.  They stick their brand on
products made by others.  So does Corsair.  The quality of the rebranded
product depends on the company putting their sticker on it as they
decide the level of quality with which they are to be equated.  However,
even within a rebrander, quality can vary based on product or models.
Sharkoon puts their sticker on computer cases, illumination kits,
keyboards, mice, CPU water coolers, mouse pads, keyboard wrist rests,
drive bay adapters, cables, headsets, case fans, chairs, desks,
backpacks, and, oh yes, power supplies.

Sharkoon rebrands PSUs from FSP and Enermax, but their QP and WPM series
are from Channel Well (same OEM for Corsair CX series), and their Rush
series are made by Enhance.  Unless you open the PSU case, you really
don't know whose PSU you get from Sharkoon.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-manufacturer,2913-9.html

A decade old article, but gives you an idea that brands are not always
the manufacturers (OEMs).  This article is old, and purchasing agents at
rebranders often change who are their OEMs.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-psus,4229.html

An example of someone reviewing PSUs to determine quality.  In fact, I
remember reading articles there where they test PSUs, like to determine
if they can actually meet their rated specs, under sustained loads at
specs rather then transient loads, what happens to the PSUs under
testing (some burn up at rated specs), ripple voltage, and more.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/how-we-test-psu,4042.html
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supplies-101,4193.html

You already bought the Sharkoon PSU.  Hopefully whomever is the actual
OEM/mfr is a good one for whatever you get.  Sometimes you can see who
is the OEM by looking inside the PSU case, but often the rebrander slaps
their sticker atop the OEMs mark.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 3 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 [3] 4 5  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | alt.comp.hardware

csiph-web