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Groups > alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt > #44457 > unrolled thread
| Started by | "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-06-29 13:11 +0800 |
| Last post | 2026-07-01 04:33 -0400 |
| Articles | 16 on this page of 36 — 6 participants |
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Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 13:11 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-29 01:39 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-29 19:20 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-29 12:57 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-30 05:14 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-06-30 21:51 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-06-30 12:06 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-06-30 18:51 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-30 17:58 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 01:15 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 10:15 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-30 23:51 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 03:16 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 10:05 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-01 17:43 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 20:23 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 00:48 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-30 23:45 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer.... physics? "quantum"? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 12:24 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 03:13 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 15:29 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 04:22 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-01 23:41 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-02 01:56 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> - 2026-07-02 14:04 +0800
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-02 16:50 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-02 21:26 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-02 18:11 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-06-30 22:09 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 03:29 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 10:11 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-01 10:08 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-06-30 16:27 +0100
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-06-30 23:28 +0000
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-07-01 02:04 -0400
Re: IBM - New SUB-Nanometer STACKED Chip Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2026-07-01 04:33 -0400
Page 2 of 2 — ← Prev page 1 [2]
| From | "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 15:29 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? |
| Message-ID | <1122flk$1mq79$1@toylet.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #44496 |
On 7/1/2026 3:13 PM, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/30/26 19:45, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 12:06:38 -0400, c186282 wrote:
>>
>> Physics was a 4 semester course and the 4th was quantum when it started to
>> get weird. On one essay test I wrote about Heisenberg's uncertainty
>> principle versus Heidegger's principle uncertainty. Fortunately the
>> professor had a sense of humor or maybe he realized how far off the beaten
>> path the original quantum guys got when you start thinking about the Being
>> of beings.
>
> Hey, all we need is a "Heisenberg Compensator" :-)
>
> As for the old Quantum Guys (maybe a few gals)...
So quantum mechanics is just pig-cheat? ;)
It's just mathematical philosophy?
Quantitative Philiosphy? :)
--
@~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
/ v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
The game is afoot... Meow...
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 04:22 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? |
| Message-ID | <RdadnTF6Wu2rU9n3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44499 |
On 7/1/26 03:29, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: > On 7/1/2026 3:13 PM, c186282 wrote: >> On 6/30/26 19:45, rbowman wrote: >>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 12:06:38 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>> >>> Physics was a 4 semester course and the 4th was quantum when it >>> started to >>> get weird. On one essay test I wrote about Heisenberg's uncertainty >>> principle versus Heidegger's principle uncertainty. Fortunately the >>> professor had a sense of humor or maybe he realized how far off the >>> beaten >>> path the original quantum guys got when you start thinking about the >>> Being >>> of beings. >> >> Hey, all we need is a "Heisenberg Compensator" :-) >> >> As for the old Quantum Guys (maybe a few gals)... > > So quantum mechanics is just pig-cheat? ;) > It's just mathematical philosophy? > Quantitative Philiosphy? :) No, VERY quantitative. Did you expect the universe to appeal to anthropomorphic ideals ? It's NOT *ABOUT* US.
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| From | "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 23:41 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? |
| Message-ID | <1123cej$1v2s1$4@toylet.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #44500 |
On 7/1/2026 4:22 PM, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/1/26 03:29, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>
>> So quantum mechanics is just pig-cheat? ;)
>> It's just mathematical philosophy?
>> Quantitative Philiosphy? :)
>
> No, VERY quantitative.
>
> Did you expect the universe to appeal
> to anthropomorphic ideals ?
>
> It's NOT *ABOUT* US.
I see the world with my naked eyes.
NOT wearing mathematical eyeglasse. :)
--
@~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
/ v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
The game is afoot... Meow...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-02 01:56 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is quantitative philiosphy? |
| Message-ID | <NbGcndkBOdQYYNj3nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44507 |
On 7/1/26 11:41, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: > On 7/1/2026 4:22 PM, c186282 wrote: >> On 7/1/26 03:29, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>> >>> So quantum mechanics is just pig-cheat? ;) >>> It's just mathematical philosophy? >>> Quantitative Philiosphy? :) >> >> No, VERY quantitative. >> >> Did you expect the universe to appeal >> to anthropomorphic ideals ? >> >> It's NOT *ABOUT* US. > > I see the world with my naked eyes. > NOT wearing mathematical eyeglasse. :) Then you're only seeing half of it.
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| From | "Mr. Man-wai Chang" <toylet.toylet@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-02 14:04 +0800 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? |
| Message-ID | <1124v1f$2cjha$1@toylet.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #44511 |
On 7/2/2026 1:56 PM, c186282 wrote:
> On 7/1/26 11:41, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>>
>> I see the world with my naked eyes.
>> NOT wearing mathematical eyeglasse. :)
>
> Then you're only seeing half of it.
Okay, is the other half of it FLAT? ;)
--
@~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
/ v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
/( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
The game is afoot... Meow...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-02 16:50 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? |
| Message-ID | <8wudnX6VBPKyUtv3nZ2dnZfqn_udnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44512 |
On 7/2/26 02:04, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: > On 7/2/2026 1:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >> On 7/1/26 11:41, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>> >>> I see the world with my naked eyes. >>> NOT wearing mathematical eyeglasse. :) >> >> Then you're only seeing half of it. > > > Okay, is the other half of it FLAT? ;) No, the most detailed tapestry ever. The Numbers can take you far beyond anything your senses can deliver,
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-02 21:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? |
| Message-ID | <nao3chFbr3tU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #44513 |
On Thu, 2 Jul 2026 16:50:44 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 7/2/26 02:04, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >> On 7/2/2026 1:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >>> On 7/1/26 11:41, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>>> >>>> I see the world with my naked eyes. NOT wearing mathematical >>>> eyeglasse. :) >>> >>> Then you're only seeing half of it. >> >> >> Okay, is the other half of it FLAT? ;) > > > No, the most detailed tapestry ever. > > The Numbers can take you far beyond anything your senses can deliver, Spoken like a true Pythagorean. Their Numbers were as real as Plato's Forms. I've always thought it odd 'Platonic realism' refers to the unreal.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-02 18:11 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: IBM - New SUB .... quantum mechanics is FLAT? |
| Message-ID | <txSdncYfFfprfNv3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44514 |
On 7/2/26 17:26, rbowman wrote: > On Thu, 2 Jul 2026 16:50:44 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> On 7/2/26 02:04, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>> On 7/2/2026 1:56 PM, c186282 wrote: >>>> On 7/1/26 11:41, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I see the world with my naked eyes. NOT wearing mathematical >>>>> eyeglasse. :) >>>> >>>> Then you're only seeing half of it. >>> >>> >>> Okay, is the other half of it FLAT? ;) >> >> >> No, the most detailed tapestry ever. >> >> The Numbers can take you far beyond anything your senses can deliver, > > Spoken like a true Pythagorean. Their Numbers were as real as Plato's > Forms. Well, they were kind of NEW at the numbers back then :-) Quantum mechanics came along a bit later. > I've always thought it odd 'Platonic realism' refers to the unreal. IS kinda odd. Anyway, The Numbers have improved, and improved our understanding, over time - 'philosophy', not so much. Same old bullshitting about bullshit under the delusion that Answers will arise. Or maybe just that if you confuse people enough they will drop coins on yer collection plate ? :-)
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-30 22:09 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1121sth$1ie1h$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #44485 |
On Tue, 6/30/2026 12:06 PM, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/30/26 09:51, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 6/30/2026 5:14 PM, c186282 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can you fabricate 0.000000...0000000001 nm chips?
>>>>
>>>> Is zero the seal or wall? :)
>>>
>>> Um, pretty quick you get to ATOMS ... and, for any
>>> normal electronics, that's IT.
>>
>>
>> You cannot have 0.000000....00 nm chip.
>>
>> That's a void, empty, nothing. :)
>
> "Electronics" are now about literal atom-thick structures.
> Can't go any smaller.
>
> Any better future stuff will have to exploit quantum
> effects - get more bang for yer nanometer. Alas quantum
> stuff isn't as deterministic as bulk matter devices
> and suffer from the uncertainty principle.
But only if there are properties that actually have some use.
A quick Google tells me there is a thing called "spintronics"
which can make insulators. The materials are "foreign" to
current semiconductors (so the materials may not "play nice"
with the rest of the substrate). And having an insulator,
does not give me a switching transistor.
Historically, we've made good use of quantum mechanical "tunneling",
which is finding a way underneath energy barriers. We have one
afternoon lab using one of these (these diodes are used in
time domain reflectometry for the nice sharp edges). I put mine right
across the terminals of an HP gray-plastic power supply, the one with
the course and fine controls. And you can use the power supply
as a curve tracer, and walk the diode right up to the
point where it switches. The power supply has amazing
characteristics at DC (not so much at HF). And that was
a fun afternoon of farting around.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode
And that's an illustration of an effect, it's not me predicting
they'll run right out and make something out of that.
This is another example of tunneling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Fowler%E2%80%93Nordheim_tunneling
"The Fowler-Nordheim tunneling effect is reversible, so electrons
can be added to or removed from the floating gate, processes
traditionally known as writing and erasing."
There's no uncertainty principle there, you need enough electrons
to maintain noise immunity.
If there is some property that can be used, and is not a flaky pastry,
then it will be introduced slowly. There is too much money involved
for this to be just "science", it's "business" too. And that affects
how you do it.
Paul
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 03:29 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <RdadnTV6Wu03XNn3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44491 |
On 6/30/26 22:09, Paul wrote: > On Tue, 6/30/2026 12:06 PM, c186282 wrote: >> On 6/30/26 09:51, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote: >>> On 6/30/2026 5:14 PM, c186282 wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Can you fabricate 0.000000...0000000001 nm chips? >>>>> >>>>> Is zero the seal or wall? :) >>>> >>>> Um, pretty quick you get to ATOMS ... and, for any >>>> normal electronics, that's IT. >>> >>> >>> You cannot have 0.000000....00 nm chip. >>> >>> That's a void, empty, nothing. :) >> >> "Electronics" are now about literal atom-thick structures. >> Can't go any smaller. >> >> Any better future stuff will have to exploit quantum >> effects - get more bang for yer nanometer. Alas quantum >> stuff isn't as deterministic as bulk matter devices >> and suffer from the uncertainty principle. > > But only if there are properties that actually have some use. True. There do seem to be SOME uses - but "general utility" is not so clear. > A quick Google tells me there is a thing called "spintronics" > which can make insulators. The materials are "foreign" to > current semiconductors (so the materials may not "play nice" > with the rest of the substrate). And having an insulator, > does not give me a switching transistor. Umm, no. "SpinTronics" may have uses - but, as you said, it does not segway neatly with existing tech. (fun - my spell-checker thing wants "Segway" - the two-wheeled commercial thingie :-) There are all sorts of exotic potential tech - weird probability waves spreading over 2-D surfaces and such. Can they be made into USEFUL technologies ? Maybe 10% and only for specialized uses. Existing transistor tech - it's deterministic, solid. Alas with the IBM product we've probably reached the bitter END of conventional electronics. Some seriously different stuff will be needed for The Future if we need more speed/density. > Historically, we've made good use of quantum mechanical "tunneling", > which is finding a way underneath energy barriers. We have one > afternoon lab using one of these (these diodes are used in > time domain reflectometry for the nice sharp edges). I put mine right > across the terminals of an HP gray-plastic power supply, the one with > the course and fine controls. And you can use the power supply > as a curve tracer, and walk the diode right up to the > point where it switches. The power supply has amazing > characteristics at DC (not so much at HF). And that was > a fun afternoon of farting around. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_diode > > And that's an illustration of an effect, it's not me predicting > they'll run right out and make something out of that. > > This is another example of tunneling. > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Fowler%E2%80%93Nordheim_tunneling > > "The Fowler-Nordheim tunneling effect is reversible, so electrons > can be added to or removed from the floating gate, processes > traditionally known as writing and erasing." > > There's no uncertainty principle there, you need enough electrons > to maintain noise immunity. NO longer sure if you go below 1nm alas. > If there is some property that can be used, and is not a flaky pastry, > then it will be introduced slowly. There is too much money involved > for this to be just "science", it's "business" too. And that affects > how you do it. Expect a LOT of flaky pastries in short order. One or two will be useful/do-able. The rest ....
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 10:11 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1122lk5$1o867$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #44498 |
On 01/07/2026 08:29, c186282 wrote: > Umm, no. "SpinTronics" may have uses - but, as you said, > it does not segway neatly with existing tech. > SEGUE From the iItalian. Same root as 'sequence' > (fun - my spell-checker thing wants "Segway" - the > two-wheeled commercial thingie :-) > > ... > Existing transistor tech - it's deterministic, solid. No. its probabilistic. Nu the probabilities are very c;lose to unity. > Alas with the IBM product we've probably reached the > bitter END of conventional electronics. Some seriously > different stuff will be needed for The Future if we > need more speed/density. > Waffle. -- Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas? Josef Stalin
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 10:08 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1122ldj$1o867$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #44491 |
On 01/07/2026 03:09, Paul wrote: > There's no uncertainty principle there, you need enough electrons > to maintain noise immunity. Quantum uncertainty becomes macro certainty as the probability approaches unity. In terms of nanometre sized chip technology, that is a measurable distance from unity -- “The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.” Herbert Spencer
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-30 16:27 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <1120n8s$167k7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #44482 |
On 30/06/2026 10:14, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/29/26 07:20, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
>> On 6/29/2026 1:39 PM, c186282 wrote:
>>>
>>> Amazed they were able to get this small - but do
>>> expect a wall/seal is pretty much here. We're
>>> talking kinda atomic dimensions now - nowhere else
>>> to go using any conventional approaches. Anything
>>> much further won't be 'electronics' as we know it,
>>> some kind of weird quantum stuff.
>>>
>>> STABLE deca-state logic maybe ?
>>
>> Can you fabricate 0.000000...0000000001 nm chips?
>>
>> Is zero the seal or wall? :)
>
> Um, pretty quick you get to ATOMS ... and, for any
> normal electronics, that's IT.
>
Actually the limit is a fair bit above atoms
GOOGLE AI
=========
"Transistor nodes have shrunk dramatically, with leading developers like
IBM advancing into the sub-1 nanometre realm (e.g., 0.7-nanometer tech).
However, absolute limits are rapidly approaching due to several factors:
Quantum Tunnelling: At sizes measuring just a few atoms across,
electrons no longer stay neatly in their channels. They start randomly
leaking or tunnelling through insulation barriers, resulting in massive
power loss and data corruption.
Atomic Boundary: The absolute physical limit for a silicon
semiconductor is effectively constrained by the size of the silicon
crystal unit cell (about 0.54 nm).
Heat Density: Shrinking transistors allows more components to be
packed together, but it creates extreme heat concentrations. The
challenge shifts from building them to keeping them cool without burning
out£
.....
I note that google can't spall 'nanometre' OR 'tunnelling; correctly
...
--
Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-30 23:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <naj1o0FgbvpU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #44484 |
On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 16:27:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > "Transistor nodes have shrunk dramatically, with leading developers like > IBM advancing into the sub-1 nanometre realm (e.g., 0.7-nanometer tech). > However, absolute limits are rapidly approaching due to several factors: iirc terms like '5 nm process' no longer refer to any physical dimension so I'm curious what the actual gate size is on 0.7 nm tech. IBM sold their fab lines to GlobalFoundries and their '7 nm' tech was closer to Intel's 10 nm.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 02:04 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <RdadnT56Wu1HMNn3nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #44488 |
On 6/30/26 19:28, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 16:27:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> "Transistor nodes have shrunk dramatically, with leading developers like >> IBM advancing into the sub-1 nanometre realm (e.g., 0.7-nanometer tech). >> However, absolute limits are rapidly approaching due to several factors: > > iirc terms like '5 nm process' no longer refer to any physical dimension > so I'm curious what the actual gate size is on 0.7 nm tech. > > IBM sold their fab lines to GlobalFoundries and their '7 nm' tech was > closer to Intel's 10 nm. Well, SEEMS like they've done the 1, or <1, nm stacked chip. They'll license that. Old company, but still kinda out-front in their tech AND biz sense. NOT gonna dump my stock. Alas, as mentioned here, this IS about as far as conventional electronics can go. Under 1nm the quantum issues fuck up everything. SO - we need entirely new tech paradigms now. For 'electronics' we HAVE crashed into Dr. Moore. Meanwhile, the stacked chips DO allow us to do more, if not faster, in the same chip profiles. There's money in that - for now. Five years ... as said, we need Something Completely Different. Maybe I'll be dead by then and won't care, maybe not, but "transistors" aren't gonna go any faster even as "AI" and a lot more DEMAND that. Still wonder if "deca-state" logic, where the intermediate values are stable and DON'T eat up power, can be done. Some 'latching', 'layered', design maybe. A few more layers per transistor. I have this vague vision in my head ... quantified analog, so to speak. One transistor, 2^10th possible values.
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| From | Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-01 04:33 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <1122jcb$1ns5s$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #44495 |
On Wed, 7/1/2026 2:04 AM, c186282 wrote:
> On 6/30/26 19:28, rbowman wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2026 16:27:24 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>
>>> "Transistor nodes have shrunk dramatically, with leading developers like
>>> IBM advancing into the sub-1 nanometre realm (e.g., 0.7-nanometer tech).
>>> However, absolute limits are rapidly approaching due to several factors:
>>
>> iirc terms like '5 nm process' no longer refer to any physical dimension
>> so I'm curious what the actual gate size is on 0.7 nm tech.
>>
>> IBM sold their fab lines to GlobalFoundries and their '7 nm' tech was
>> closer to Intel's 10 nm.
>
> Well, SEEMS like they've done the 1, or <1, nm
> stacked chip.
You will need to see the dimensions of the whole thing,
to see which "chance" dimension is 1nm.
https://newsroom.ibm.com/2026-06-25-ibm-debuts-worlds-first-sub-1-nanometer-chip-technology
https://filecache.mediaroom.com/mr5mr_ibmnewsroom/201436/IBM-Research_TEM_4.jpg
The diagram here, is too hard to read. The FINFET is on the left. The Gate All Around
device in the center. The stacked P channel and N channel on the right.
https://www.eetimes.com/ibm-shows-sub-1-nm-chips-targeting-production-in-5-years/
They talk here, of two wafers being bonded vertically. Which might
be how the scheme maintains a semblance of manufacturability. Imagine
an 18" (450mm" wafer, aligned at the atomic level.
https://www.servethehome.com/ibm-outlines-sub-1nm-nanostack-transistor-technology/
Paul
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