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Groups > alt.atheism > #2170146 > unrolled thread

Re: Atheism is Witchcraft

Started byAttila <<prochoice@here.now>
First post2016-09-18 04:26 -0400
Last post2016-09-21 21:47 +0100
Articles 20 on this page of 141 — 18 participants

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  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 04:26 -0400
    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-18 16:15 +0200
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-18 11:29 -0400
      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 09:59 +1000
        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 03:25 +0200
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-18 20:56 -0600
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-19 00:37 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 00:48 -0400
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:11 +1000
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:28 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:37 +1000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:11 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:12 +1000
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:57 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 19:14 +1000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 10:37 -0400
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 09:28 +1000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-22 00:12 +0000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 03:50 -0400
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 18:17 +1000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:19 -0700
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:13 -0400
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:37 +1000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 14:59 -0400
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:35 +1000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 05:55 +0200
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 05:13 -0400
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 19:20 +0200
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-25 17:16 -0400
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 06:44 +0200
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-25 22:40 -0700
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-26 17:56 +1000
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-26 23:09 +0200
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:02 +1000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 20:23 +0200
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 10:18 +1000
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 03:34 +0200
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:41 +1000
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 20:34 +0200
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-28 04:48 +0200
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-28 18:10 +0000
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-29 10:07 +1000
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-29 08:04 +0200
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-27 06:43 +0200
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-27 19:06 +1000
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 05:08 -0700
                                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-27 20:28 -0400
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 01:17 +0000
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-27 23:55 -0400
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 15:04 +0000
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:06 -0400
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 00:03 +0000
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:38 -0400
                                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 00:37 -0400
                                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-29 15:48 +0000
                                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-29 23:59 -0400
                                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-28 11:50 +1000
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-27 22:30 -0700
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-28 14:58 +0000
                                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:07 -0400
                                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Dreamer In Colore <dreamerincolore@hotmail.com> - 2016-09-28 16:02 -0400
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-27 10:07 -0700
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-27 18:10 -0700
          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-19 16:08 +1000
            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 08:53 +0200
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 15:36 -0400
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 17:27 +1000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-20 10:33 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-20 09:40 -0500
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 03:58 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 12:05 +1000
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:10 -0400
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-19 20:31 +0000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-19 23:14 +0200
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-20 00:15 +0000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-20 11:51 +1000
                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-19 23:14 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-20 23:38 +0200
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-20 22:31 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-21 01:20 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 05:43 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-21 14:27 +0000
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Serigo <invalid@invalid.com> - 2016-09-21 10:09 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 11:07 -0700
                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 04:16 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-21 21:42 +0200
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-21 16:22 -0400
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 10:11 +1000
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 08:34 +0200
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2016-09-21 23:55 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft hhyapster@gmail.com - 2016-09-22 17:50 -0700
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:37 +1000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:23 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 12:38 +1000
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-25 06:20 +0200
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 02:28 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-22 22:11 +0200
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-22 22:25 +0100
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:36 +0200
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:18 +1000
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:38 -0400
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:20 +1000
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 09:30 +0200
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 18:17 +1000
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 02:31 -0700
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 10:47 +1000
                                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-23 18:43 -0700
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-24 04:29 +0200
                                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-24 17:29 +1000
                                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Wisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc> - 2016-09-23 23:20 -0600
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-23 16:16 +0000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-23 15:05 -0400
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
                                      Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-24 16:26 +0000
                                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 05:32 +0000
                                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-25 15:50 +0000
                                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
                                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Smiler <smiler@jo.king> - 2016-09-26 01:05 +0000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 15:30 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2016-09-22 18:14 -0500
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:36 -0700
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "%" <persent@gmail.com> - 2016-09-21 17:55 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-22 01:16 +0000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 04:02 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-22 17:41 +1000
                          Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2016-09-22 10:18 -0400
                            Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 11:26 +1000
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2016-09-23 04:51 +0200
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:53 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-23 16:35 +1000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Bob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid> - 2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 17:08 -0700
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-24 18:33 -0700
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2016-09-24 19:39 -0700
                              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-22 22:52 -0700
                                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 09:53 +0000
                                  Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> - 2016-09-23 12:52 +0100
                                    Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Ned Latham <nedlatham@woden.valhalla.oz> - 2016-09-23 21:49 +0000
              Re: Atheism is Witchcraft "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 09:30 +1000
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-09-20 20:12 -0700
                Re: Atheism is Witchcraft John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2016-09-21 21:47 +0100

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#2172315

FromOlrik <olrik666@gmail.com>
Date2016-09-23 02:38 -0400
Message-ID<ns2il8$ug3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#2172310
Le 2016-09-23 à 02:18, Alex W. a écrit :
> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
>>
>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> They have
>>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of
>>>>>> economy.
>>>
>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>> medieval period. ..
>>>
>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
>>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
>>> though some remnants remain
>>
>> The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.
>>
>> These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the
>> country.
>>
>> They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually
>> behave coordinated.
>
> The entity is not unknown.
>
> We call it "the marketplace".
>
> The same pressures and attractions of the business environment will lead
> to similar behaviour.  If one firm reduces prices, its competitors will
> follow suit, and for the same reasons.

What reasons? Usually it's always by reducing labour costs. Even with 
slavery you have to account with labour cost. How low can one get?

> If one company launches a new
> product or service, others will have to do the same.

Not unless the new product or service is patented or trademarked or 
copyrighted.

> No conspiracy there...
>
>
>>
>> They seem to practise an authoritarian kind of (right winged) socialism.
>> The behaviour is quite anti-capitalistic, but a strange form of
>> collectivism. These collectives are organised in vertical steps, which
>> build a vast superstructure of interlocked organisations.
>>
>> At the top of this ice-berg we find the Queen of England.
>
> Who has no actual political power and who exercises economic power only
> as the head and administrator of the admittedly significant financial
> holdings of the British Crown.
>
>
>>
>> A few levels lower we find the guilds of the city of London and remains
>> of colonial guilds, like the Virginia Company or the East India Company.
>
> None of which have any legal, political or economic power or rights.
>
>
>>
>> How this system work in detail, that is not known, at least not for me.
>>
>> But the City of London does still exist today.
>
> Of course it does.
>
> It is a *city*.
>
> You might as well find it suspicious that the cities of Hamburg or
> Berlin or Frankfurt exist.
>
>
>


-- 
Olrik
aa #1981
EAC Chief Food Inspector, Bacon Division

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#2172332

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-09-23 18:20 +1000
Message-ID<e4k6ulFi606U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172315
On 23/09/2016 16:38, Olrik wrote:
> Le 2016-09-23 à 02:18, Alex W. a écrit :
>> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of
>>>>>>> economy.
>>>>
>>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>>> medieval period. ..
>>>>
>>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
>>>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
>>>> though some remnants remain
>>>
>>> The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.
>>>
>>> These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually
>>> behave coordinated.
>>
>> The entity is not unknown.
>>
>> We call it "the marketplace".
>>
>> The same pressures and attractions of the business environment will lead
>> to similar behaviour.  If one firm reduces prices, its competitors will
>> follow suit, and for the same reasons.
>
> What reasons? Usually it's always by reducing labour costs. Even with
> slavery you have to account with labour cost. How low can one get?

Labour costs, infrastructure, the tax and regulatory environment, 
proximity to the customers, transport costs, availability of resources, 
defending or increasing market share, global stockmarket gyrations, 
structural changes within any given industry....




>
>> If one company launches a new
>> product or service, others will have to do the same.
>
> Not unless the new product or service is patented or trademarked or
> copyrighted.

Even then.

There are ways around these problems.


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#2172320

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-23 09:30 +0200
Message-ID<e4k413FhfgeU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172310
Am 23.09.2016 08:18, schrieb Alex W.:
> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
>>
>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> They have
>>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of
>>>>>> economy.
>>>
>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>> medieval period. ..
>>>
>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
>>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
>>> though some remnants remain
>>
>> The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.
>>
>> These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the
>> country.
>>
>> They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually
>> behave coordinated.
>
> The entity is not unknown.
>
> We call it "the marketplace".

Competitive market economy is the least thing, which these corporations 
have in mind.

As far as an outsider can say, these corporations want monopolies and 
aim to destroy competitors.

They also do not refrain from creating cartels and conspire with enemies.

> The same pressures and attractions of the business environment will lead
> to similar behaviour. If one firm reduces prices, its competitors will
> follow suit, and for the same reasons. If one company launches a new
> product or service, others will have to do the same.
>
> No conspiracy there...

The government could prevent lawless economical habits, if the 
government itself would not be a part of the same system.

The common people can do whatever they like, this wouldn't change anything.

>
>>
>> They seem to practise an authoritarian kind of (right winged) socialism.
>> The behaviour is quite anti-capitalistic, but a strange form of
>> collectivism. These collectives are organised in vertical steps, which
>> build a vast superstructure of interlocked organisations.
>>
>> At the top of this ice-berg we find the Queen of England.
>
> Who has no actual political power and who exercises economic power only
> as the head and administrator of the admittedly significant financial
> holdings of the British Crown.


Yes, the real power is not applied by her personally. For this she has 
her people.
>
>>
>> A few levels lower we find the guilds of the city of London and remains
>> of colonial guilds, like the Virginia Company or the East India Company.
>
> None of which have any legal, political or economic power or rights.

Well, I have found a guild that is called 'Honorable Society of 
worshipful Scientific instrument makers'.

These 'instruments' seem to be all kinds of things and 'science' to them 
sounds more like warfare to me.

>
>>
>> How this system work in detail, that is not known, at least not for me.
>>
>> But the City of London does still exist today.
>
> Of course it does.
>
> It is a *city*.
>
> You might as well find it suspicious that the cities of Hamburg or
> Berlin or Frankfurt exist.
>

No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.

It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to 
England, the UK and the EU.

The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and 
power-supply and let nobody in or out.


TH

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#2172331

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-09-23 18:17 +1000
Message-ID<e4k6p1Fi48qU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172320
On 23/09/2016 17:30, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 23.09.2016 08:18, schrieb Alex W.:
>> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>> Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
>>>
>>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> They have
>>>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of
>>>>>>> economy.
>>>>
>>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>>> medieval period. ..
>>>>
>>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
>>>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
>>>> though some remnants remain
>>>
>>> The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.
>>>
>>> These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the
>>> country.
>>>
>>> They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually
>>> behave coordinated.
>>
>> The entity is not unknown.
>>
>> We call it "the marketplace".
>
> Competitive market economy is the least thing, which these corporations
> have in mind.
>
> As far as an outsider can say, these corporations want monopolies and
> aim to destroy competitors.
>
> They also do not refrain from creating cartels and conspire with enemies.

Which is why the marketplace is regulated.  Cartels, where found, are 
punished really quite severely.


>
>> The same pressures and attractions of the business environment will lead
>> to similar behaviour. If one firm reduces prices, its competitors will
>> follow suit, and for the same reasons. If one company launches a new
>> product or service, others will have to do the same.
>>
>> No conspiracy there...
>
> The government could prevent lawless economical habits, if the
> government itself would not be a part of the same system.
>
> The common people can do whatever they like, this wouldn't change anything.

Except that firms flourish or die at the mercy of the consumers, aka 
"the common people".


>
>>
>>>
>>> They seem to practise an authoritarian kind of (right winged) socialism.
>>> The behaviour is quite anti-capitalistic, but a strange form of
>>> collectivism. These collectives are organised in vertical steps, which
>>> build a vast superstructure of interlocked organisations.
>>>
>>> At the top of this ice-berg we find the Queen of England.
>>
>> Who has no actual political power and who exercises economic power only
>> as the head and administrator of the admittedly significant financial
>> holdings of the British Crown.
>
>
> Yes, the real power is not applied by her personally. For this she has
> her people.

... who become "her people" as decided by the electorate.  She has no 
say in this.


>>
>>>
>>> A few levels lower we find the guilds of the city of London and remains
>>> of colonial guilds, like the Virginia Company or the East India Company.
>>
>> None of which have any legal, political or economic power or rights.
>
> Well, I have found a guild that is called 'Honorable Society of
> worshipful Scientific instrument makers'.
>
> These 'instruments' seem to be all kinds of things and 'science' to them
> sounds more like warfare to me.

So?  Does this guild/society have any actual power?  Do they dictate 
defence procurement?  Do they formulate government policy?


>
>>
>>>
>>> How this system work in detail, that is not known, at least not for me.
>>>
>>> But the City of London does still exist today.
>>
>> Of course it does.
>>
>> It is a *city*.
>>
>> You might as well find it suspicious that the cities of Hamburg or
>> Berlin or Frankfurt exist.
>>
>
> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
>
> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
> England, the UK and the EU.
>
> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
> power-supply and let nobody in or out.

The City of London is a separate and distinct legal entity from Greater 
London.  It existed for centuries when "London" did not have a mayor or 
a city hall or any sort of administration beyond the level of individual 
boroughs.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172355

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-23 02:31 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-970A7E.02315923092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2172331
In article <e4k6p1Fi48qU1@mid.individual.net>,
 "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 23/09/2016 17:30, Thomas Heger wrote:
> > Am 23.09.2016 08:18, schrieb Alex W.:
> >> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:
> >>> Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
> >>>
> >>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
> >>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> They have
> >>>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of
> >>>>>>> economy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
> >>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
> >>>> medieval period. ..
> >>>>
> >>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
> >>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
> >>>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
> >>>> though some remnants remain
> >>>
> >>> The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.
> >>>
> >>> These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the
> >>> country.
> >>>
> >>> They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually
> >>> behave coordinated.
> >>
> >> The entity is not unknown.
> >>
> >> We call it "the marketplace".
> >
> > Competitive market economy is the least thing, which these corporations
> > have in mind.
> >
> > As far as an outsider can say, these corporations want monopolies and
> > aim to destroy competitors.
> >
> > They also do not refrain from creating cartels and conspire with enemies.
> 
> Which is why the marketplace is regulated.  Cartels, where found, are 
> punished really quite severely.

It seems they're not anymore. Banking is down to a tiny number of majors 
and a bunch of weak, mostly localized, banks. TV/Internet companies keep 
merging so there's almost no competition. Monsanto just got bought by 
Bayer (if they get regulatory approval).


> >> The same pressures and attractions of the business environment will lead
> >> to similar behaviour. If one firm reduces prices, its competitors will
> >> follow suit, and for the same reasons. If one company launches a new
> >> product or service, others will have to do the same.
> >>
> >> No conspiracy there...
> >
> > The government could prevent lawless economical habits, if the
> > government itself would not be a part of the same system.
> >
> > The common people can do whatever they like, this wouldn't change anything.
> 
> Except that firms flourish or die at the mercy of the consumers, aka 
> "the common people".

Too many of them don't seem to care.


> >>> They seem to practise an authoritarian kind of (right winged) socialism.
> >>> The behaviour is quite anti-capitalistic, but a strange form of
> >>> collectivism. These collectives are organised in vertical steps, which
> >>> build a vast superstructure of interlocked organisations.
> >>>
> >>> At the top of this ice-berg we find the Queen of England.
> >>
> >> Who has no actual political power and who exercises economic power only
> >> as the head and administrator of the admittedly significant financial
> >> holdings of the British Crown.
> >
> >
> > Yes, the real power is not applied by her personally. For this she has
> > her people.
> 
> ... who become "her people" as decided by the electorate.  She has no 
> say in this.

Exactly.


> >>> A few levels lower we find the guilds of the city of London and remains
> >>> of colonial guilds, like the Virginia Company or the East India Company.
> >>
> >> None of which have any legal, political or economic power or rights.
> >
> > Well, I have found a guild that is called 'Honorable Society of
> > worshipful Scientific instrument makers'.
> >
> > These 'instruments' seem to be all kinds of things and 'science' to them
> > sounds more like warfare to me.
> 
> So?  Does this guild/society have any actual power?  Do they dictate 
> defence procurement?  Do they formulate government policy?
> 
> 
> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> How this system work in detail, that is not known, at least not for me.
> >>>
> >>> But the City of London does still exist today.
> >>
> >> Of course it does.
> >>
> >> It is a *city*.
> >>
> >> You might as well find it suspicious that the cities of Hamburg or
> >> Berlin or Frankfurt exist.
> >>
> >
> > No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
> >
> > It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
> > England, the UK and the EU.
> >
> > The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
> > power-supply and let nobody in or out.

Gee, look at Thomas telling the Brits how to run their country.


> The City of London is a separate and distinct legal entity from Greater 
> London.  It existed for centuries when "London" did not have a mayor or 
> a city hall or any sort of administration beyond the level of individual 
> boroughs.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172565

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-09-24 10:47 +1000
Message-ID<e4m0psF190tU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172355
On 23/09/2016 19:31, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> In article <e4k6p1Fi48qU1@mid.individual.net>,
>  "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 23/09/2016 17:30, Thomas Heger wrote:


>>> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
>>>
>>> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
>>> England, the UK and the EU.
>>>
>>> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
>>> power-supply and let nobody in or out.
>
> Gee, look at Thomas telling the Brits how to run their country.

Been there, had that, graciously refused their offer.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172582

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-23 18:43 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-4E8A65.18430423092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2172565
In article <e4m0psF190tU1@mid.individual.net>,
 "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On 23/09/2016 19:31, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> > In article <e4k6p1Fi48qU1@mid.individual.net>,
> >  "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> On 23/09/2016 17:30, Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> 
> >>> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
> >>>
> >>> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
> >>> England, the UK and the EU.
> >>>
> >>> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
> >>> power-supply and let nobody in or out.
> >
> > Gee, look at Thomas telling the Brits how to run their country.
> 
> Been there, had that, graciously refused their offer.

Indeed.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172602

FromThomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Date2016-09-24 04:29 +0200
Message-ID<e4m6o5F2gukU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172582
Am 24.09.2016 03:43, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:

>>>>> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
>>>>> England, the UK and the EU.
>>>>>
>>>>> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
>>>>> power-supply and let nobody in or out.
>>>
>>> Gee, look at Thomas telling the Brits how to run their country.
>>
>> Been there, had that, graciously refused their offer.
>
> Indeed.
>

I'm certainly not important.

But how about the citizens of the USA?

If the UK, the Queen, the guilds and/or the City of London would 
interfere in any respect with US politics, than sooner or later the USA 
will tell the UK, what they have to do.

But there are more superpowers, which have also an issue with England.

E.g. there is China and China had a problem with England called 'Opium war'.

Then we have Russia. The trouble with Russia is related to the rise and 
fall of socialism. To understand the problem you should read the book 
'Stalin's British training' by Greg Hallet

Also India was not always happy with the British colonists, same was 
Africa.


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172706

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2016-09-24 17:29 +1000
Message-ID<e4moaoF67m2U1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2172602
On 24/09/2016 12:29, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 24.09.2016 03:43, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>
>>>>>> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
>>>>>> England, the UK and the EU.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
>>>>>> power-supply and let nobody in or out.
>>>>
>>>> Gee, look at Thomas telling the Brits how to run their country.
>>>
>>> Been there, had that, graciously refused their offer.
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>
> I'm certainly not important.
>
> But how about the citizens of the USA?
>
> If the UK, the Queen, the guilds and/or the City of London would
> interfere in any respect with US politics, than sooner or later the USA
> will tell the UK, what they have to do.
>
> But there are more superpowers, which have also an issue with England.
>
> E.g. there is China and China had a problem with England called 'Opium
> war'.
>
> Then we have Russia. The trouble with Russia is related to the rise and
> fall of socialism. To understand the problem you should read the book
> 'Stalin's British training' by Greg Hallet
>
> Also India was not always happy with the British colonists, same was
> Africa.

Would you kindly direct your eyes to a current calendar?  The British 
Empire is dead.  It is no more.  It is in the past.  What the British 
Empire did or did not do during its tenure as the big 800lb gorilla of 
human history is not relevant to today's United Kingdom.  We do not 
interfere in US politics.  We do not interfere in India.  We no longer 
push opium on China.  We have not done any of those things for quite 
some considerable time.

Do you have any relevant arguments?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172677

FromWisely Non-Theist <aaa@bbb.ccc>
Date2016-09-23 23:20 -0600
Message-ID<aaa-3C48D8.23205823092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2172582
In article <hlwdjsd2-4E8A65.18430423092016@news.giganews.com>,
 Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:


> Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
> up a God superior to themselves. Most 
> Gods have the manners and morals of a 
> spoiled child.

Actually any form of theism, and Xianity in particular, involves far 
more witchraft than any atheism does!

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#2172420

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-23 16:16 +0000
Message-ID<ns3kgq$1o2g$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2172320
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 09:30:33 +0200, Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 23.09.2016 08:18, schrieb Alex W.:
>> On 23/09/2016 12:36, Thomas Heger wrote:

<snip>

>>> But the City of London does still exist today.
>>
>> Of course it does.
>>
>> It is a *city*.
>>
>> You might as well find it suspicious that the cities of Hamburg or
>> Berlin or Frankfurt exist.
>>
> No, London is a city, but the 'City of London' is not.

Yes it is. It has a Lord Mayor and it's own police force.
 
> It is roughly a square-mile, which pretends to be ex-territorial to
> England, the UK and the EU.
> 
> The English would better off, if they fence this in, cut water and
> power-supply and let nobody in or out.

No need for a fence, as it has had walls, with gates, since Roman times.
Bishopsgate, Aldgate, Cripplegate and Moorgate are the names of some of 
them.
But why would we be better off if we followed your stupid idea?


-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172459

FromAttila <<prochoice@here.now>
Date2016-09-23 15:05 -0400
Message-ID<uuuaubpujgplnadg8jt49hla45fladoj17@4ax.com>
In reply to#2172269
On Fri, 23 Sep 2016 04:36:49 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> in
alt.atheism with message-id <e4jiqaFdpvrU1@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>Am 22.09.2016 23:25, schrieb Les Hellawell:
>
>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>
>>
>>>>> They have
>>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of economy.
>>
>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>> medieval period. ..
>>
>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
>> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
>> though some remnants remain
>
>The US system is often called 'Corporatism'.

Not by anyone I know.

>
>These corporations are the large companies, which practically own the 
>country.

Not really.

>
>They act under the control of some unknown entity, since they usually 
>behave coordinated.

The mysterious Unknown that seems so prevalent.

>
>They seem to practise an authoritarian kind of (right winged) socialism. 
>The behaviour is quite anti-capitalistic, but a strange form of 
>collectivism. These collectives are organised in vertical steps, which 
>build a vast superstructure of interlocked organisations.

Nothing accurate there.

>
>At the top of this ice-berg we find the Queen of England.

That is news to me - and to most Americans.

>
>A few levels lower we find the guilds of the city of London and remains 
>of colonial guilds, like the Virginia Company or the East India Company.

What is the Virginia Company?  If you are talking about the US system
where did London come from?


>
>How this system work in detail, that is not known, at least not for me.

Nor to anyone else.

>
>But the City of London does still exist today.

Most cities do.

>
>Also the guild exist today and still control the economy of their realm. 
>As far as I know, they are called 'Livery Companies'.
>
>TH

Weird.

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor OBastard.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172599

FromBob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-09-24 02:22 +0000
Message-ID<9o1dir.ak7.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2172173
Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
> wrote:
> 
>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>> 
>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen. 
> 
> 
>>>> They have
>>>> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of economy.
> 
> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
> medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example has a
> magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now open to the
> public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more splendid and was
> built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in there underneath the
> magnificent oak framed roof
> 
> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
> 
> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the
> town corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago
> though some remnants remain 

The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My own
family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply intrenched in
the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to early 1700s. Original
ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot maker and guild member. His
trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his will dated mid 1700s. 


>>>> The have also a set of parasitic life-forms, they call 'aristocracy'.
> 
> Not so much parasitic these days, not since the inheritance tax swept
> away a lot of their wealth. 
> 
> Les Hellawell
> Greetings from:
> YORKSHIRE - The White Rose County
> 
> Martin Luther wrote:
> "Faith must trample underfoot all sense, reason and understanding
> 
> Which means that if Luther practised what he preached
> nothing he ever said made any sense
> 



-- 
Dunning's work explained in clear, concise and simple terms. 
 John Cleese on Stupidity  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2172872

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-24 16:26 +0000
Message-ID<ns69fi$1fsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2172599
On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 02:22:49 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:

> Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>>> 
>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>> 
>> 
>>>>> They have also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all
>>>>> aspects of economy.
>> 
>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as the
>> City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>> medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example has a
>> magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now open to the
>> public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more splendid and was
>> built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in there underneath the
>> magnificent oak framed roof
>> 
>> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
>> 
>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the town corporations
>> but as I say all that was swept away long ago though some remnants
>> remain
> 
> The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My own
> family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply intrenched
> in the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to early 1700s.
> Original ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot maker and guild
> member. His trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his will dated mid
> 1700s.

Are you certain? AFAIK, they were called cordwainers. There was a 
Cordwainers School in London.
http://www.arts.ac.uk/fashion/about/cordwainers/

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2173102

FromBob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-09-25 05:32 +0000
Message-ID<9o4d31.mdf.19.1@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2172872
Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 02:22:49 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
> 
>> Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>>>>>>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>>> They have also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all
>>>>>> aspects of economy.
>>> 
>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as the
>>> City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>> medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example has a
>>> magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now open to the
>>> public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more splendid and was
>>> built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in there underneath the
>>> magnificent oak framed roof
>>> 
>>> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
>>> 
>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the town corporations
>>> but as I say all that was swept away long ago though some remnants
>>> remain
>> 
>> The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My own
>> family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply intrenched
>> in the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to early 1700s.
>> Original ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot maker and guild
>> member. His trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his will dated mid
>> 1700s.
> 
> Are you certain? AFAIK, they were called cordwainers. There was a 
> Cordwainers School in London.
> http://www.arts.ac.uk/fashion/about/cordwainers/

I am going by the spelling on the document. I only saw a photographic copy
of the document because the county recorder didn't want to subject the
document to the pressure of a photocopier's glass plate. It was
photographed by a 3.5x4.5 film camera I loaned my mother. The document
resided in the archives at Carlisle, PA county recorders office. One of
their oldest documents in their archives. It is dated 1762 when the will
was executed.

He was from Scotland, and some of the family members still reside in the
area, a few migrated to Australia, and New Zealand, Nova Scotia. As far I
we can trace back we are all family.



-- 
Dunning's work explained in clear, concise and simple terms. 
 John Cleese on Stupidity  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2173242

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-25 15:50 +0000
Message-ID<ns8ron$145l$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2173102
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 05:32:47 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:

> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 02:22:49 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
>> 
>>> Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government,
>>>>>>>> as opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>>> They have also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all
>>>>>>> aspects of economy.
>>>> 
>>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>>> medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example has a
>>>> magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now open to
>>>> the public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more splendid and
>>>> was built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in there underneath
>>>> the magnificent oak framed roof
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
>>>> 
>>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the town
>>>> corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago though
>>>> some remnants remain
>>> 
>>> The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My own
>>> family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply
>>> intrenched in the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to
>>> early 1700s. Original ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot maker
>>> and guild member. His trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his will
>>> dated mid 1700s.
>> 
>> Are you certain? AFAIK, they were called cordwainers. There was a
>> Cordwainers School in London.
>> http://www.arts.ac.uk/fashion/about/cordwainers/
> 
> I am going by the spelling on the document. I only saw a photographic
> copy of the document because the county recorder didn't want to subject
> the document to the pressure of a photocopier's glass plate. It was
> photographed by a 3.5x4.5 film camera I loaned my mother. The document
> resided in the archives at Carlisle, PA county recorders office. One of
> their oldest documents in their archives. It is dated 1762 when the will
> was executed.
> 
> He was from Scotland, and some of the family members still reside in the
> area, a few migrated to Australia, and New Zealand, Nova Scotia. As far
> I we can trace back we are all family.

Although the meaning is clearly the same, I can only assume that the US or 
Scottish spelling differs from the London spelling. In the 18th century, 
the spelling of many words had not yet been fixed.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2173323

FromBob Officer <no_email@invalid.invalid>
Date2016-09-25 21:42 +0000
Message-ID<9o65sv.13e.19.2@news.alt.net>
In reply to#2173242
Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 05:32:47 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
> 
>> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 02:22:49 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government,
>>>>>>>>> as opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They have also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all
>>>>>>>> aspects of economy.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in the
>>>>> medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example has a
>>>>> magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now open to
>>>>> the public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more splendid and
>>>>> was built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in there underneath
>>>>> the magnificent oak framed roof
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
>>>>> 
>>>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the town
>>>>> corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago though
>>>>> some remnants remain
>>>> 
>>>> The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My own
>>>> family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply
>>>> intrenched in the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to
>>>> early 1700s. Original ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot maker
>>>> and guild member. His trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his will
>>>> dated mid 1700s.
>>> 
>>> Are you certain? AFAIK, they were called cordwainers. There was a
>>> Cordwainers School in London.
>>> http://www.arts.ac.uk/fashion/about/cordwainers/
>> 
>> I am going by the spelling on the document. I only saw a photographic
>> copy of the document because the county recorder didn't want to subject
>> the document to the pressure of a photocopier's glass plate. It was
>> photographed by a 3.5x4.5 film camera I loaned my mother. The document
>> resided in the archives at Carlisle, PA county recorders office. One of
>> their oldest documents in their archives. It is dated 1762 when the will
>> was executed.
>> 
>> He was from Scotland, and some of the family members still reside in the
>> area, a few migrated to Australia, and New Zealand, Nova Scotia. As far
>> I we can trace back we are all family.
> 
> Although the meaning is clearly the same, I can only assume that the US or 
> Scottish spelling differs from the London spelling. In the 18th century, 
> the spelling of many words had not yet been fixed.
> 

I agree, the written language was not as fixed as early the currently held
common belief. However discovery of guild records allowed members of family
to push back the family tree a few hundred years earlier than we had
before. We went from a single will with a birthdate and place in late 1600s
to the late 1300s.

-- 
Dunning's work explained in clear, concise and simple terms. 
 John Cleese on Stupidity  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

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#2173383

FromSmiler <smiler@jo.king>
Date2016-09-26 01:05 +0000
Message-ID<ns9s98$krh$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#2173323
On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 21:42:21 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:

> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>> On Sun, 25 Sep 2016 05:32:47 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
>> 
>>> Smiler <smiler@jo.king> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 24 Sep 2016 02:22:49 +0000, Bob Officer wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Les Hellawell <les@shant.tell> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 22:11:48 +0200, Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of
>>>>>>>>>> government,
>>>>>>>>>> as opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> They have also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all
>>>>>>>>> aspects of economy.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Not for a long time now. Guilds operated in Corporate towns such as
>>>>>> the City of London and the City of York. Their golden age was in
>>>>>> the medieval period.  The York Merchant Taylors Guild for example
>>>>>> has a magnificent medieval Guildhall one of the gems of York now
>>>>>> open to the public. The Merchant Aventurers Hall is even more
>>>>>> splendid and was built in the 14th C I once attended a banquet in
>>>>>> there underneath the magnificent oak framed roof
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.theyorkcompany.co.uk/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> These Guilds controlled all aspect of their trade within the
>>>>>> jurisdiction of the town and its member dominated the town
>>>>>> corporations but as I say all that was swept away long ago though
>>>>>> some remnants remain
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Industrial Age, did away with most guilds and trade groups. My
>>>>> own family name comes from a family which I understand was deeply
>>>>> intrenched in the shoe make guild in Scotland from the late 1400 to
>>>>> early 1700s. Original ancestor emigrated was a British Army Boot
>>>>> maker and guild member. His trade was listed as a cordwinder, in his
>>>>> will dated mid 1700s.
>>>> 
>>>> Are you certain? AFAIK, they were called cordwainers. There was a
>>>> Cordwainers School in London.
>>>> http://www.arts.ac.uk/fashion/about/cordwainers/
>>> 
>>> I am going by the spelling on the document. I only saw a photographic
>>> copy of the document because the county recorder didn't want to
>>> subject the document to the pressure of a photocopier's glass plate.
>>> It was photographed by a 3.5x4.5 film camera I loaned my mother. The
>>> document resided in the archives at Carlisle, PA county recorders
>>> office. One of their oldest documents in their archives. It is dated
>>> 1762 when the will was executed.
>>> 
>>> He was from Scotland, and some of the family members still reside in
>>> the area, a few migrated to Australia, and New Zealand, Nova Scotia.
>>> As far I we can trace back we are all family.
>> 
>> Although the meaning is clearly the same, I can only assume that the US
>> or Scottish spelling differs from the London spelling. In the 18th
>> century, the spelling of many words had not yet been fixed.
>> 
> I agree, the written language was not as fixed as early the currently
> held common belief. However discovery of guild records allowed members
> of family to push back the family tree a few hundred years earlier than
> we had before. We went from a single will with a birthdate and place in
> late 1600s to the late 1300s.

Well done. I can only get my paternal tree back to about 1650 in the 
Netherlands and my maternal tree to about 1600 in Italy.

-- 
Smiler, The godless one.
aa #2279
Gods are all tailored to order. They are made 
to exactly fit the prejudices of the believer.

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#2172193

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2016-09-22 15:30 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-7E66D7.15304022092016@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#2172152
In article <e4is8cF8tmbU1@mid.individual.net>,
 Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
> 
> >>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
> >>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
> >>>
> >>
> >> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen. They have
> >> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of economy.
> >> The have also a set of parasitic life-forms, they call 'aristocracy'.
> >>
> >>
> >> Now what of these features do you find in the USA???
> >
> > Most of them. The President is both the Queen and the Prime Minister.
> > And we most definitely have our aristocracy; we call them the 1%. This
> > "Guilds" thing I don't know, but the legislative branch, the executive,
> > and the Fed run the economy.
> >
> 
> So you call your parasitic life-forms '1%'.
> 
> And your president is the Queen?
> 
> Well, yes, sure,...
> 
> ... somehow I thought it would be this way.

The Queen is the Head of State and the Prime Minister is the Head of 
Government. In the US, the President is both.

-- 

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream 
up a God superior to themselves. Most 
Gods have the manners and morals of a 
spoiled child.

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#2172207

FromChristopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net>
Date2016-09-22 18:14 -0500
Message-ID<0no8ubpoltq1fj3sop6lle270v1m8a0g4c@4ax.com>
In reply to#2172193
On Thu, 22 Sep 2016 15:30:40 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
<hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:

>In article <e4is8cF8tmbU1@mid.individual.net>,
> Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 22.09.2016 11:28, schrieb Jeanne Douglas:
>> 
>> >>> Sure it does. It's part of the Anglo-Saxon system of government, as
>> >>> opposed to the Roman or Napoleonic system.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> As far as I know, the Anglo-Saxons in England have a Queen. They have
>> >> also Guilds, which control the jurisdiction and all aspects of economy.
>> >> The have also a set of parasitic life-forms, they call 'aristocracy'.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Now what of these features do you find in the USA???
>> >
>> > Most of them. The President is both the Queen and the Prime Minister.
>> > And we most definitely have our aristocracy; we call them the 1%. This
>> > "Guilds" thing I don't know, but the legislative branch, the executive,
>> > and the Fed run the economy.
>> >
>> 
>> So you call your parasitic life-forms '1%'.
>> 
>> And your president is the Queen?
>> 
>> Well, yes, sure,...
>> 
>> ... somehow I thought it would be this way.
>
>The Queen is the Head of State and the Prime Minister is the Head of 
>Government. In the US, the President is both.

The Queen is only nominally the head of state - King Charles I  was
executed for usurping parliament. When the monarchy was restored,
Charles II was invited back, but just as a figurehead.

This was cemented when James II wanted to return the CofE to Roman
control, and hence the country, and William III (William of Orange)
was made King.

Something like 350 years ago.

When William was crowned he swore a new Coronation oath, which pledged
himself to obey the will of parliament.

And the Guilds have been purely ceremonial for a similar length of
time.

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