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Groups > alt.atheism > #3486676 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-05-16 16:53 -0700 |
| Last post | 2026-05-25 23:39 -0400 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 296 — 23 participants |
Back to article view | Back to alt.atheism
The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> - 2026-05-16 16:53 -0700
[Spam] Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows they didn't.. Gary Roselles <rudy-the-cocksmoker@Jurgis.net> - 2026-05-17 06:25 +0200
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. bondrock@ifx.net - 2026-05-18 22:55 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-19 02:25 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.com> - 2026-05-18 20:05 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-19 06:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-19 12:56 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-20 06:51 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-20 13:09 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-20 10:36 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-21 06:34 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-21 13:09 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-21 12:04 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-21 17:58 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-21 16:21 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-22 02:19 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-22 00:26 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-23 01:41 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-23 05:09 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-23 14:18 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-24 06:55 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 02:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:23 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 02:28 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-27 08:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 00:48 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-22 07:56 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. End Democracy Now <end-it@democracy.shit> - 2026-05-23 01:40 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. zendejo <zd@no.here> - 2026-05-23 12:30 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-24 06:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 02:27 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:25 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 02:34 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-27 08:44 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2026-05-25 01:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 13:32 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 02:21 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2026-05-31 02:51 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-31 11:05 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 09:12 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2026-06-01 02:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-01 12:58 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 09:05 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-23 13:30 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. End Democracy Now <end-it@democracy.shit> - 2026-05-24 05:29 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-24 14:21 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-24 19:32 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. "Donald J. Trump" <epstein@maga.gop> - 2026-05-26 03:37 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 00:53 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-05-20 16:33 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-21 02:01 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-21 06:42 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-05-21 12:23 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-21 16:34 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-22 01:58 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-22 00:34 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-23 02:01 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-23 05:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-25 02:20 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-27 18:31 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-27 13:58 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:54 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:46 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:57 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-28 14:27 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-29 02:08 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <skeeterweed@photonmail.corn> - 2026-05-29 13:53 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:04 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:52 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:21 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:30 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-31 10:58 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-31 18:07 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-02 19:02 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-03 13:22 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-04 16:29 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 01:47 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 06:37 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-05 13:17 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-05 18:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-06 14:23 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-07 01:10 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-08 13:52 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-09 07:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-12 02:39 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-12 06:02 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-14 14:20 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-14 15:55 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-17 14:00 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-17 10:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 14:36 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:25 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 09:42 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 14:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 15:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:23 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:08 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 18:48 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 23:21 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 14:16 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:49 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-22 02:01 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 20:24 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:46 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-22 10:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-22 10:09 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:32 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-22 22:45 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-23 20:10 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 06:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-06-25 22:53 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 05:10 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:45 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 09:54 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-27 14:19 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-27 11:38 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-27 08:39 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:32 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 13:37 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:46 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 18:56 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:43 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:24 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:56 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:48 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 13:58 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 11:07 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:27 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:05 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 02:38 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 08:36 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-28 13:54 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-28 18:28 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:47 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-24 12:33 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 17:57 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 14:50 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-25 01:45 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-25 02:44 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-25 11:59 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:45 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:09 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 18:00 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 23:46 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:01 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-18 18:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 02:22 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-19 05:41 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-19 09:53 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-19 18:14 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-20 01:30 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-06-20 10:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-20 09:20 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-21 13:59 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 08:35 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-21 19:09 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-21 17:16 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-22 06:51 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:23 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:43 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 18:34 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:04 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:44 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-23 02:16 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 06:58 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-24 13:26 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-24 10:32 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-26 13:38 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-26 10:09 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-26 09:21 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-24 11:08 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-23 09:43 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-23 19:12 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-19 09:01 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Amal Bond <ab@ifx.net> - 2026-06-20 02:11 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-06-18 20:30 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-20 02:07 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-19 22:34 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 02:29 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-05-21 20:42 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-22 05:15 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-05-22 18:20 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-23 05:59 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-22 00:46 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-22 00:44 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> - 2026-05-22 18:20 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Anonymous <anon@anon.net> - 2026-05-23 01:55 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-23 06:04 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-26 00:57 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> - 2026-05-23 10:02 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-24 07:07 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-24 18:11 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-26 15:46 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-28 13:32 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-28 14:31 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-28 12:50 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-29 01:51 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-28 18:56 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. John S <smythlejon2@hotmail.com> - 2026-05-29 02:17 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 07:34 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:43 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 14:53 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:45 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:58 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:24 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:27 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 21:02 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 21:44 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 07:49 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 09:36 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 11:46 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 12:31 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 17:33 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 10:38 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 12:43 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. zendejo <zd@no.here> - 2026-05-31 13:06 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 14:24 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 17:16 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 19:53 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 08:44 -0600
[Spam] Re: The panties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Rudy Canosa <rudycanosa@lgbtqiamail.con> - 2026-06-01 22:11 +0200
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:47 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:22 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:30 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 21:04 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 21:45 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 07:52 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 09:37 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 11:47 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 12:32 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 17:34 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 10:42 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 12:44 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 14:25 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 17:17 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 19:55 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 08:45 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-06-01 18:13 +0000
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 12:26 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-01 12:11 -0700
Re: The pansies switched on race. Everyone knows it. Fudge Packer Canoza <fudge-packer-canoza@newshosting.com> - 2026-06-01 20:49 +0000
Re: The pansies switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 15:07 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 14:57 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-01 14:12 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 16:18 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-01 16:04 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 18:11 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-02 09:18 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-01 12:00 -0700
Re: The pansies switched on race. Everyone knows it. Fudge Packer Canoza <fudge-packer-canoza@newshosting.com> - 2026-06-01 20:48 +0000
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-06-01 14:10 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 14:56 -0600
[Spam] Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Rudy Canosa <rudycanosa@lgbtqiamail.con> - 2026-06-01 23:49 +0200
Re: [Spam] Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-06-01 16:17 -0600
Re: The panties switched on race. Everyone knows it. loother <loother@jk.com> - 2026-05-30 04:04 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 07:33 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:44 -0700
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 14:52 -0600
Re: The panties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. loother <loother@jk.com> - 2026-05-30 04:06 +0000
Re: The panties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. loother <loother@jk.com> - 2026-05-30 04:05 +0000
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 13:51 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 16:01 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 16:49 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 18:23 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 19:28 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 21:04 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-29 21:44 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 07:50 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 09:37 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 11:47 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-30 12:32 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-30 17:34 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 10:40 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 12:43 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. zendejo <zd@no.here> - 2026-05-31 13:06 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 14:24 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 17:16 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. AlleyCat <al@aohello.con> - 2026-05-31 19:54 -0700
[Spam] Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Rudy Canosa <rudycanosa@lgbtqiamail.con> - 2026-06-02 01:19 +0200
Re: The panties switched on race. Everyone knows it. loother <loother@jk.com> - 2026-05-30 04:06 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-05-31 11:01 -0400
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> - 2026-05-31 18:16 +0000
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-31 12:41 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. Attila <prochoice@here.now> - 2026-06-02 19:09 -0400
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> - 2026-05-23 12:47 -0700
[Spam] Re: The parties switched off race. Everyone knows it. Trevor Johnson <noreply@mixmin.net> - 2026-05-24 04:28 +0100
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> - 2026-05-24 10:29 -0700
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-24 17:24 -0600
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-29 01:47 -0400
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Skeeter <invalid@none.com> - 2026-05-29 07:35 -0600
Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. jonball@h.omo - 2026-05-24 06:07 +0000
Re: The parties switched on race. Everyone knows it. Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> - 2026-05-25 23:39 -0400
Page 10 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 15 Next page →
| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-20 02:07 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <XnsB470D59A94C0A629555@185.151.15.109> |
| In reply to | #3489007 |
Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> wrote in news:LJ2ZR.125210$_D3.54418@fx36.iad: > On 6/14/2026 12:55 PM, Attila wrote: >> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 14:20:26 +0000, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsB46B5DBAAF325629555@185.151.15.109> wrote: >> >>>> The specific cause was slavery but the legal issue was >>>> whether or not a federal law could negate a state law. Did >>>> the Federal Government have the legal power to tell the >>>> states what they could or could not do. >>> >>> >>> The federal government did NOTHING >>> about slavery at time of secession. In >>> fact it legitimized slavery by enacting >>> the Fugitive Slave Law Southerners >>> demanded. And Lincoln told the South >>> they could KEEP slavery. How is that an >>> interference? >> >> You still don't understand. It wasn't so much about what >> the union did as what the South expected them to do based >> upon the public discussions of slavery and the positions of >> many politicians that were elected in 1860. The CSA was >> formed as a preventive measure to insure the individual >> states could preserve their existing economic and social >> structure. > > It was formed purely to protect and promote slavery. That was the > *only* issue in secession. > "Our new government is founded upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition." Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens, 1861
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| From | Skeeter <invalid@none.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-06-19 22:34 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <MPG.449fc638ef4b31b298c1ab@usnews.blocknews.net> |
| In reply to | #3489099 |
In article <XnsB470D59A94C0A629555@185.151.15.109>, noemail@aol.com says... > > Alan Bond <bondrock@ifx.net> wrote in > news:LJ2ZR.125210$_D3.54418@fx36.iad: > > > On 6/14/2026 12:55 PM, Attila wrote: > >> On Sun, 14 Jun 2026 14:20:26 +0000, Mitchell Holman > >> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id > >> <XnsB46B5DBAAF325629555@185.151.15.109> wrote: > >> > >>>> The specific cause was slavery but the legal issue was > >>>> whether or not a federal law could negate a state law. Did > >>>> the Federal Government have the legal power to tell the > >>>> states what they could or could not do. > >>> > >>> > >>> The federal government did NOTHING > >>> about slavery at time of secession. In > >>> fact it legitimized slavery by enacting > >>> the Fugitive Slave Law Southerners > >>> demanded. And Lincoln told the South > >>> they could KEEP slavery. How is that an > >>> interference? > >> > >> You still don't understand. It wasn't so much about what > >> the union did as what the South expected them to do based > >> upon the public discussions of slavery and the positions of > >> many politicians that were elected in 1860. The CSA was > >> formed as a preventive measure to insure the individual > >> states could preserve their existing economic and social > >> structure. > > > > It was formed purely to protect and promote slavery. That was the > > *only* issue in secession. > > > > > > > "Our new government is founded upon > the great truth that the negro is not > equal to the white man; that slavery > subordination to the superior race is > his natural and normal condition." > > Confederate Vice President Alexander > Stephens, 1861 How racist of you. The laft always playing the race card. -- "Michelle Obama is a man" Am I right America?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-29 02:29 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <c7ci1l59qb8ni02nli0oao59mub8m3cms5@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487236 |
On Mon, 25 May 2026 02:20:22 +0000, Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> wrote: >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:q6s21ldmle6oh4863mq9cbb0s0rd5cd4lq@4ax.com: > >> On Sat, 23 May 2026 02:01:39 +0000, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsB454D4E1D9829629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >> >>>memorials are NOT history. >>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>>>> >> >> Of course they are. They were real people who did real >>>>>>>> >> >> things and are a part of what actually occurred. >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> > That doesn't mean they should be >>>>>>>> >> >honored with statues. Remember the images >>>>>>>> >> >of US troops pulling down statues of >>>>>>>> >> >Saddam Hussein? Rememeber the images of >>>>>>>> >> >American rebels pulling down statues of >>>>>>>> >> >George III? >>>>>>>> >> > >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Why are you trying to impose your judgment on the people who >>>>>>>> >> actually lived at that time, participated in the events as >>>>>>>> >> they occurred, and expressed their views and opinions based >>>>>>>> >> upon their experiences? >>>>>>>> >> >>>>>>>> >> Why do you think your opinion is better than the opinions of >>>>>>>> >> those involved? The subject was settled over 165 years ago. >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Actually it came down to what would prevail - the laws of >>>>>>>> the individual states or the federal government. The >>>>>>>> specific laws under question were the laws involving >>>>>>>> slavery. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The central issue was to condone slavery or abolish slavery. >>>>>>>The legal issues were only a ramification of that. >>>>>> >>>>>> You have it backwards. It was states rights against Federal >>>>>> rights and which should prevail. In the beginning of the >>>>>> war slavery was a minor issue and it wasn't until Lincoln >>>>>> made it a central issue to prevent as many Union men as he >>>>>> could from just going home when their enlistment period >>>>>> ended that set an emotional issue that carried through until >>>>>> the end of the war. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1) Every Confederate state listed slavery >>>>>as the the prime factor in their Declaration >>>>>of Secession. >>>> >>>> Because that was the issue raised by the central government >>>> passing laws and requiring the states to obey them. >>>> >>> >>> Only with the passage of 13th Amendment >>>in 1895. Lincoln did nothing to abolish slavery >>>when the South seceded. He wasn't even president >>>then. >> >> AI Overview The American Civil War was >> primarily caused by the unresolved issue of slavery. > > > Bingo. > > Not "state's rights", not >"federal overreach". > > The secession was about SLAVERY. > > > >> For >> decades, simmering tensions over the moral, economic, and >> political aspects of enslavement—particularly its expansion >> into western territories, Northern and Southern cultural >> divides, and states' rights—finally boiled over when Abraham >> Lincoln was elected. >> >> Political Division & The 1860 Election: The election of >> Abraham Lincoln, representing the anti-slavery Republican >> Party, was the tipping point. The South feared his >> presidency would lead to the abolition of slavery, resulting >> in seven states seceding to form the Confederacy even before >> his inauguration > > > Southern fear. > > Not facts. > > Fear. > > >>>>> >>>>> 2) Lincoln offered to leave slavery as >>>>>is in all the secedinging states. That wasn't >>>>>good enough, the South demand that all new >>>>>territories and states allow slavery. >>>> >>>> They wanted new states to decide for themselves and not be >>>> forced by the federal government. >>> >>> >>> The South didn't care about popular opinion, >>>they demanded slavery be legal in all states. >>>They even put it in their Constitution. >>> >>> >>>"The Confederate States may acquire new territory; >>>and Congress shall have power to legislate and >>>provide governments for the inhabitants of all >>>territory belonging to the Confederate States. >>>In all such territory the institution of negro >>>slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate >>>States, shall be recognized and protected" >>>Art IV, Sec 3, CSA Constitution >> >> They formed a new and separate country and made slavery >> legal in the entire country, much as they expected the Union >> to make slavery illegal in the entire country. > > > Exactly. > > The South demand legal slavery >for the entire country. > > They seceded over it. > > With no attempt to even negotiate >the issue. > > > >>>>> 3) The South didn't want to negotiate >>>>>with Lincoln, they left the Union while >>>>>Buchanan was still president. >>>> >>>> Laws were being passed by Congress and threatened to be >>>> passed by the new congress that were opposed by the Southern >>>> states. >>> >>> >>> What laws? There were no anti-slavery >>>law passed before the South seceded. >> >> Political Division & The 1860 Election: The election of >> Abraham Lincoln, representing the anti-slavery Republican >> Party, was the tipping point. The South feared his >> presidency would lead to the abolition of slavery, resulting >> in seven states seceding to form the Confederacy even before >> his inauguration > > > The secession was about slavery. > > The war about about slavery. > > > > >> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4) "Our new government is founded upon >>>>>the great truth that the negro is not equal >>>>>to the white man; that slavery subordination >>>>>to the superior race is his natural and normal >>>>>condition." >>>>>Confederate Vice President Alexander >>>>>Stephens, 1861 >>>> >>>> That was the legal position of the Confederate states who >>>> felt the central government did not have the authority to >>>> force conflicting laws upon them. >>> >>> >>> What conflicting laws? >> >> Laws that made slavery illegal and made the negro equal to a >> white man. >> > > No such laws existed when >the South seceded. > > >> The actions of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments > > The 1860 South seceded because >of laws passed years later? <laughs and points at Attila> 13th Amendment passed and ratified in 1865. 14th Amendment passed in 1866, ratified in 1868. 15th Amendment passed in 1869, ratified in 1870. Sometimes it's fun even when it's so easy. -- MAGA: "embrace the suck".
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| From | Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-21 20:42 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <2iiv0lp4392q94tf4nibnuafslk149pjf2@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487006 |
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > On Thu, 21 May 2026 12:23:22 -0700, Samuel Spade > >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade > >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Why are you trying to impose your judgment on the people who > >> >> actually lived at that time, participated in the events as > >> >> they occurred, and expressed their views and opinions based > >> >> upon their experiences? > >> >> > >> >> Why do you think your opinion is better than the opinions of > >> >> those involved? The subject was settled over 165 years ago. > >> > > >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. > >> > >> Actually it came down to what would prevail - the laws of > >> the individual states or the federal government. The > >> specific laws under question were the laws involving > >> slavery. > > > >The central issue was to condone slavery or abolish slavery. > >The legal issues were only a ramification of that. > > You have it backwards. It was states rights against Federal > rights and which should prevail. In the beginning of the > war slavery was a minor issue and it wasn't until Lincoln > made it a central issue to prevent as many Union men as he > could from just going home when their enlistment period > ended that set an emotional issue that carried through until > the end of the war. Attila, did you learn your history from a statue of Robert E. Lee? Or from his horse? The conflict was always about slavery, from can-kicking compromises in drafting the constitution, to the Missouri Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to seccession. The slavery issue even played a part in the Mexican War. > >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should > >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery > >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. > >> > >> Almost every society has had slavery somewhere in their > >> history. The US is no different. It was used to provide > >> cheap labor and the Industrial Revelation made it to > >> expensive to continue. > > > > > >Doesn't mean we should honor people for fighting for slavery. > > Those who were actually involved made that determination. > You were not there. Neither were you. Does that prove something? Maybe you watched the entire re-enactment on youtube? > >> Evil is a social determination and has no intrinsic value. > > > >Or, at least, it's subjective. Morality does have roots in > >human nature. > > What is evil changes from person to person and over time. > Slavery was not considered evil in Rome, Greece, or Egypt. > Or by American Indians for that matter. Slavery makes hypocrisy of the values the republic was founded on: equality, liberty, bill of rights and rule of law -- all the usual rah rah. Slavery was based on brutality and violence we can't comprehend today. No one in the USA in 1860 can be excused for supporting slavery. Yet you want to honor the guilty? Mr. Trump, tear down that statue!
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| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-22 05:15 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <i6nv0lhc4f1krthrq727bker5opirefjql@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487027 |
On Thu, 21 May 2026 20:42:31 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> in alt.atheism with message-id <2iiv0lp4392q94tf4nibnuafslk149pjf2@4ax.com> wrote: >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> On Thu, 21 May 2026 12:23:22 -0700, Samuel Spade >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade >> >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> Why are you trying to impose your judgment on the people who >> >> >> actually lived at that time, participated in the events as >> >> >> they occurred, and expressed their views and opinions based >> >> >> upon their experiences? >> >> >> >> >> >> Why do you think your opinion is better than the opinions of >> >> >> those involved? The subject was settled over 165 years ago. >> >> > >> >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >> >> >> >> Actually it came down to what would prevail - the laws of >> >> the individual states or the federal government. The >> >> specific laws under question were the laws involving >> >> slavery. >> > >> >The central issue was to condone slavery or abolish slavery. >> >The legal issues were only a ramification of that. >> >> You have it backwards. It was states rights against Federal >> rights and which should prevail. In the beginning of the >> war slavery was a minor issue and it wasn't until Lincoln >> made it a central issue to prevent as many Union men as he >> could from just going home when their enlistment period >> ended that set an emotional issue that carried through until >> the end of the war. > >Attila, did you learn your history from a statue of Robert E. >Lee? Or from his horse? In various school classes plus personal reading. History is everywhere. > >The conflict was always about slavery, from can-kicking >compromises in drafting the constitution, to the Missouri >Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to seccession. >The slavery issue even played a part in the Mexican War. As I have said slavery laws were the issue between the opposing sides. The South said the laws of the states should govern while the North said the states were subject to the laws passed by the central government. > > >> >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >> >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >> >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. >> >> >> >> Almost every society has had slavery somewhere in their >> >> history. The US is no different. It was used to provide >> >> cheap labor and the Industrial Revelation made it to >> >> expensive to continue. >> > >> > >> >Doesn't mean we should honor people for fighting for slavery. >> >> Those who were actually involved made that determination. >> You were not there. > >Neither were you. Does that prove something? Yes, it proves the people of the time who actually experienced the war were in position to have better judgment about it then anyone trying to judge it by the standards of 150 years later. > >Maybe you watched the entire re-enactment on youtube? By those who were actually there? > > >> >> Evil is a social determination and has no intrinsic value. >> > >> >Or, at least, it's subjective. Morality does have roots in >> >human nature. >> >> What is evil changes from person to person and over time. >> Slavery was not considered evil in Rome, Greece, or Egypt. >> Or by American Indians for that matter. > >Slavery makes hypocrisy of the values the republic was founded >on: equality, liberty, bill of rights and rule of law -- all >the usual rah rah. It was on the way out but don't forget many of those same people had slaves. > >Slavery was based on brutality and violence we can't >comprehend today. Different standards. And no, I am not advocating the return of slavery I am just saying it was a part of the system in place at the tie. > >No one in the USA in 1860 can be excused for supporting >slavery. Yet you want to honor the guilty? The issue is not erecting new monuments but to accept those erected by the people actually involved and who used their judgment at that time and not 150 years later. > >Mr. Trump, tear down that statue! Re-write history to make it more comfortable. -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
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| From | Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-22 18:20 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <3qu11l5ev36kito8kfri3t1lkutklut7qt@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487057 |
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > On Thu, 21 May 2026 20:42:31 -0700, Samuel Spade > >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > >> On Thu, 21 May 2026 12:23:22 -0700, Samuel Spade > >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade > >> >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Why are you trying to impose your judgment on the people who > >> >> >> actually lived at that time, participated in the events as > >> >> >> they occurred, and expressed their views and opinions based > >> >> >> upon their experiences? > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Why do you think your opinion is better than the opinions of > >> >> >> those involved? The subject was settled over 165 years ago. > >> >> > > >> >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. > >> >> > >> >> Actually it came down to what would prevail - the laws of > >> >> the individual states or the federal government. The > >> >> specific laws under question were the laws involving > >> >> slavery. > >> > > >> >The central issue was to condone slavery or abolish slavery. > >> >The legal issues were only a ramification of that. > >> > >> You have it backwards. It was states rights against Federal > >> rights and which should prevail. In the beginning of the > >> war slavery was a minor issue and it wasn't until Lincoln > >> made it a central issue to prevent as many Union men as he > >> could from just going home when their enlistment period > >> ended that set an emotional issue that carried through until > >> the end of the war. > > > >Attila, did you learn your history from a statue of Robert E. > >Lee? Or from his horse? > > In various school classes plus personal reading. History is > everywhere. Atilla! It was a rhetorical question. > >The conflict was always about slavery, from can-kicking > >compromises in drafting the constitution, to the Missouri > >Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to seccession. > >The slavery issue even played a part in the Mexican War. > > As I have said slavery laws were the issue between the > opposing sides. The South said the laws of the states > should govern while the North said the states were subject > to the laws passed by the central government. The civil war was about slavery, not about legal issues. > > > >> >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should > >> >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery > >> >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. > >> >> > >> >> Almost every society has had slavery somewhere in their > >> >> history. The US is no different. It was used to provide > >> >> cheap labor and the Industrial Revelation made it to > >> >> expensive to continue. > >> > > >> > > >> >Doesn't mean we should honor people for fighting for slavery. > >> > >> Those who were actually involved made that determination. > >> You were not there. > > >Neither were you. Does that prove something? > > Yes, it proves the people of the time who actually > experienced the war were in position to have better judgment > about it then anyone trying to judge it by the standards of > 150 years later. I wasn't there at Dachau either. Should we shrug and say "well, who can judge if they really believed they were doing right or not?" (...) > >Slavery makes hypocrisy of the values the republic was founded > >on: equality, liberty, bill of rights and rule of law -- all > >the usual rah rah. > > It was on the way out but don't forget many of those same > people had slaves. Slavery was not on the way out. Why do you think that war was so vicious? More americans died in the civil war than in WW II. The south didn't undertake the war lightly. Slavery would have lasted a long long time if left to themselves. > >Slavery was based on brutality and violence we can't > >comprehend today. > > Different standards. And no, I am not advocating the return > of slavery I am just saying it was a part of the system in > place at the tie. > > > > >No one in the USA in 1860 can be excused for supporting > >slavery. Yet you want to honor the guilty? > > The issue is not erecting new monuments but to accept those > erected by the people actually involved and who used their > judgment at that time and not 150 years later. The issue is that we don't want monuments to perps of evil lingering any more. Do you not see the insult it is to black people? > >Mr. Trump, tear down that statue! > > Re-write history to make it more comfortable. It was a metaphoric reference, Atilla, and a pretty good one. Not revisionism. I realize you don't easily recognize irony.
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| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-23 05:59 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <o4t21l5mjn5o0klrgig7cql1mlmvlbh1iq@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487090 |
On Fri, 22 May 2026 18:20:20 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> in alt.atheism with message-id <3qu11l5ev36kito8kfri3t1lkutklut7qt@4ax.com> wrote: >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> On Thu, 21 May 2026 20:42:31 -0700, Samuel Spade >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> >> On Thu, 21 May 2026 12:23:22 -0700, Samuel Spade >> >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade >> >> >> >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Why are you trying to impose your judgment on the people who >> >> >> >> actually lived at that time, participated in the events as >> >> >> >> they occurred, and expressed their views and opinions based >> >> >> >> upon their experiences? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Why do you think your opinion is better than the opinions of >> >> >> >> those involved? The subject was settled over 165 years ago. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >> >> >> >> >> >> Actually it came down to what would prevail - the laws of >> >> >> the individual states or the federal government. The >> >> >> specific laws under question were the laws involving >> >> >> slavery. >> >> > >> >> >The central issue was to condone slavery or abolish slavery. >> >> >The legal issues were only a ramification of that. >> >> >> >> You have it backwards. It was states rights against Federal >> >> rights and which should prevail. In the beginning of the >> >> war slavery was a minor issue and it wasn't until Lincoln >> >> made it a central issue to prevent as many Union men as he >> >> could from just going home when their enlistment period >> >> ended that set an emotional issue that carried through until >> >> the end of the war. >> > >> >Attila, did you learn your history from a statue of Robert E. >> >Lee? Or from his horse? >> >> In various school classes plus personal reading. History is >> everywhere. > >Atilla! It was a rhetorical question. For some it would be a serious question. > > >> >The conflict was always about slavery, from can-kicking >> >compromises in drafting the constitution, to the Missouri >> >Compromise of 1820, to the Compromise of 1850, to seccession. >> >The slavery issue even played a part in the Mexican War. >> >> As I have said slavery laws were the issue between the >> opposing sides. The South said the laws of the states >> should govern while the North said the states were subject >> to the laws passed by the central government. > >The civil war was about slavery, not about legal issues. Slavery is a legal condition and can only exist when the laws of the society allow it. AI Overview The American Civil War was primarily caused by the unresolved issue of slavery. For decades, simmering tensions over the moral, economic, and political aspects of enslavement—particularly its expansion into western territories, Northern and Southern cultural divides, and states' rights—finally boiled over when Abraham Lincoln was elected. Political Division & The 1860 Election: The election of Abraham Lincoln, representing the anti-slavery Republican Party, was the tipping point. The South feared his presidency would lead to the abolition of slavery, resulting in seven states seceding to form the Confederacy even before his inauguration How can anything be abolished without enforceable laws against it? > > >> > >> >> >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >> >> >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >> >> >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. >> >> >> >> >> >> Almost every society has had slavery somewhere in their >> >> >> history. The US is no different. It was used to provide >> >> >> cheap labor and the Industrial Revelation made it to >> >> >> expensive to continue. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Doesn't mean we should honor people for fighting for slavery. >> >> >> >> Those who were actually involved made that determination. >> >> You were not there. >> >> >Neither were you. Does that prove something? >> >> Yes, it proves the people of the time who actually >> experienced the war were in position to have better judgment >> about it then anyone trying to judge it by the standards of >> 150 years later. > >I wasn't there at Dachau either. Should we shrug and say >"well, who can judge if they really believed they were doing >right or not?" Of what value are judgments of past actions other than to insure, if necessary, they are not repeated? History cannot be changed but it can be revised by someone who is uncomfortable with or rejects what actually happened. Such revisions only alter the reports of the events and not the events themselves. True valuable history should always report events as they actually occurred. > >(...) > >> >Slavery makes hypocrisy of the values the republic was founded >> >on: equality, liberty, bill of rights and rule of law -- all >> >the usual rah rah. >> >> It was on the way out but don't forget many of those same >> people had slaves. > >Slavery was not on the way out. Why do you think that war was >so vicious? More americans died in the civil war than in WW >II. The south didn't undertake the war lightly. Slavery >would have lasted a long long time if left to themselves. Not really. The Industrial Revolution was not far away, and with the advent of machines to do work previously done by slaves it would have very quickly become to expensive to continue. There would be a tipping point beyond which work not done by machine would be cheaper when done by hired workers than by slaves that needed food, clothing, and shelter 24/7 to insure their continued survival and thus their value. Slaves were expensive, which is why most people did not own one. > > >> >Slavery was based on brutality and violence we can't >> >comprehend today. >> >> Different standards. And no, I am not advocating the return >> of slavery I am just saying it was a part of the system in >> place at the tie. >> >> > >> >No one in the USA in 1860 can be excused for supporting >> >slavery. Yet you want to honor the guilty? >> >> The issue is not erecting new monuments but to accept those >> erected by the people actually involved and who used their >> judgment at that time and not 150 years later. > >The issue is that we don't want monuments to perps of evil >lingering any more. Do you not see the insult it is to black >people? They have been there for well over a hundred years. Why has it suddenly become an issue today? Should the army be dissolved because it oppressed Native American Indians and opened the west to settlers? When are churches going to be attacked for using missionaries to destroy local cultures, a practice that continues today? A practice that includes trying to smuggle bibles into countries that ban them and then screaming for US government protection when they are caught. > > >> >Mr. Trump, tear down that statue! >> >> Re-write history to make it more comfortable. > >It was a metaphoric reference, Atilla, and a pretty good one. >Not revisionism. I realize you don't easily recognize irony. One person's irony can be a call to arms for someone else. The world is full of crazies who kill for their crazy beliefs and opinions. -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
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| From | Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-22 00:46 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <hsnv0llmndgl7chtphsceth0fvvhka9gad@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487000 |
On Thu, 21 May 2026 12:23:22 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >The question that is being debated whether to honor the heroes >of slavery or not. Honor, no. Remember, yes. -- Latest from the left wing rumor mill: It's been a weird week: He said, Xi said edition https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sJXZTtYK0Lc Remember Renee Good
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| From | Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-22 00:44 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <6mnv0ltiidinkk28ua8mrc38nbvte7uv4s@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3486937 |
On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. > >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. > >Where do you see reason for good-faith disagreement over that? "Knew" and "should have known" aren't the same thing. They firmly believed their actions were justified and even used Scripture to support it. -- Latest from the left wing rumor mill: It's been a weird week: He said, Xi said edition https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sJXZTtYK0Lc Remember Renee Good
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| From | Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-22 18:20 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <d1t11lhjgg8r9urqkihvf0ak20dkquhfet@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487036 |
Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: > > >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. > > > >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should > >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery > >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. > > > >Where do you see reason for good-faith disagreement over that? > > "Knew" and "should have known" aren't the same thing. Right. Either one is sufficient to earn the contempt of history. > They firmly > believed their actions were justified and even used Scripture to > support it. Both OT and NT explicitly allow slavery. But there's no punishment for not practicing it. By 1860 most non-muslim countries had banned slavery. Even southerners would see its moral repugnance if they opened their eyes. Americans even in 1776 realized the ethic of "all men are created equal". No excuse. Maintaining slavery requires beatings and torture to keep the darkies in line. Were the perps morally ok with that too? It's like today most (not all) people know fossil fuel is screwing their grandchildren, but they drive SUVs anyway. Different levels of turpitude, but same idea.
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| From | Anonymous <anon@anon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-23 01:55 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <10urfgs$1f26k$1@news.tcpreset.net> |
| In reply to | #3487091 |
Samuel Spade wrote: > Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >> >>> The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >>> >>> The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >>> have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >>> anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. >>> >>> Where do you see reason for good-faith disagreement over that? >> >> "Knew" and "should have known" aren't the same thing. > > Right. Either one is sufficient to earn the contempt of > history. > >> They firmly >> believed their actions were justified and even used Scripture to >> support it. > > Both OT and NT explicitly allow slavery. But there's no > punishment for not practicing it. > > By 1860 most non-muslim countries had banned slavery. Even > southerners would see its moral repugnance if they opened > their eyes. Americans even in 1776 realized the ethic of "all > men are created equal". No excuse. Men are NOT created equal. Some men are naturally free. Some are naturally slaves. > Maintaining slavery requires beatings and torture to keep the > darkies in line. Were the perps morally ok with that too? > > It's like today most (not all) people know fossil fuel is > screwing their grandchildren, but they drive SUVs anyway. > Different levels of turpitude, but same idea. The utilization of carbon-based fuels is how you're able to write and transmit your stupid, ridiculous opinions.
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| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-23 06:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <rlu21l92lt9oe31atte9r97u0bqaudqv5b@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487091 |
On Fri, 22 May 2026 18:20:29 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> in alt.atheism with message-id <d1t11lhjgg8r9urqkihvf0ak20dkquhfet@4ax.com> wrote: >Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >> >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >> > >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. >> > >> >Where do you see reason for good-faith disagreement over that? >> >> "Knew" and "should have known" aren't the same thing. > >Right. Either one is sufficient to earn the contempt of >history. > >> They firmly >> believed their actions were justified and even used Scripture to >> support it. > >Both OT and NT explicitly allow slavery. But there's no >punishment for not practicing it. > >By 1860 most non-muslim countries had banned slavery. Even >southerners would see its moral repugnance if they opened >their eyes. Americans even in 1776 realized the ethic of "all >men are created equal". No excuse. > >Maintaining slavery requires beatings and torture to keep the >darkies in line. Were the perps morally ok with that too? > >It's like today most (not all) people know fossil fuel is >screwing their grandchildren, but they drive SUVs anyway. >Different levels of turpitude, but same idea. Widespread slavery is an economic need which is too expensive today. It is cheaper to use machines then to develop, train, and support a slave population. Specialized slavery such as sex slaves and child labor still exists to some extent but each is illegal and limited to certain conditions such as extreme poverty. -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
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| From | Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 00:57 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <10aa1lpgnm0cgofhs6kusl7c06ub92bsib@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487091 |
On Fri, 22 May 2026 18:20:29 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >Governor Swill <governor.swill@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Wed, 20 May 2026 16:33:42 -0700, Samuel Spade <sam@spade.invalid> wrote: >> >> >The Civil War was complicated but it all came down to slavery. >> > >> >The confederates who were honored with statues knew, or should >> >have known, that slavery is evil. They fought for slavery >> >anyway. So they actively advanced an evil cause. >> > >> >Where do you see reason for good-faith disagreement over that? >> >> "Knew" and "should have known" aren't the same thing. > >Right. Either one is sufficient to earn the contempt of >history. > >> They firmly >> believed their actions were justified and even used Scripture to >> support it. > >Both OT and NT explicitly allow slavery. But there's no >punishment for not practicing it. > >By 1860 most non-muslim countries had banned slavery. Even >southerners would see its moral repugnance if they opened >their eyes. Americans even in 1776 realized the ethic of "all >men are created equal". No excuse. > >Maintaining slavery requires beatings and torture to keep the >darkies in line. Were the perps morally ok with that too? > >It's like today most (not all) people know fossil fuel is >screwing their grandchildren, but they drive SUVs anyway. >Different levels of turpitude, but same idea. Me, mine, now. Forget you, yours and then. -- Latest from the left wing rumor mill: It's been a weird week: Volcanic corruption Edition https://www.youtube.com/shorts/7HkHAtExwrA Remember Renee Good
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| From | Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-23 10:02 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> |
| In reply to | #3486814 |
On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote: > On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some > news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad: > >> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors? > > Historians. Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to FAKE history. The monuments are lies.
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| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-24 07:07 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487143 |
On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote: >On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote: >> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some >> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad: >> >>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors? >> >> Historians. > >Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to FAKE history. What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the local people who were the same people who filled the ranks of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so honored. Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army before he resigned his US commission and took command of Virginia's state forces. >The monuments are lies. In what way? Those honored were considered heroes to those who paid for and erected the monuments, all of which were legal. -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
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| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-24 18:11 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <XnsB4568536A1D31629555@185.151.15.190> |
| In reply to | #3487191 |
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles
> <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote:
>
>>On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote:
>>> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some
>>> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad:
>>>
>>>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors?
>>>
>>> Historians.
>>
>>Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to
>>FAKE history.
>
> What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the
> local people who were the same people who filled the ranks
> of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so
> honored.
>
Most confederate monuments were built
in the 1900's as a snub to emerging civil
rights movements, And not by civil war veterans
like Lee who opposesd the effort
AI Overview:
The vast majority of Confederate statues were
erected decades after the Civil War ended, with
the largest spikes occurring between the 1890s
and 1920s, and a second wave during the 1950s
and 1960s.This timeline directly correlates
with periods of intense racial tension and
political conflict, rather than immediate post-
war mourning:The Jim Crow Era (1890s–1920s):
Most monuments were erected during this time by
groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy
(UDC). This coincided with the implementation of
segregation laws, the disenfranchisement of Black
Americans, and a revival of the Ku Klux Klan.The
Civil Rights Movement (Late 1950s–1960s): A
secondary wave of monument building and the
adoption of Confederate symbols occurred as a
direct pushback against desegregation and the
fight for equal rights.
> Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army
> before he resigned his US commission and took command of
> Virginia's state forces.
Remember Robert E Lee who opposed building
ANY statues to himself or other Confederate
generals.
Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments
Aug 15, 2017
At the center of the "Unite the Right"
rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville
last weekend was a protest of the city's
plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee.
White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others
have made monuments to the Confederate
commanding general a flashpoint - at
times marching to keep them standing.
But Lee himself never wanted such
monuments built.
"I think it wiser," the retired military
leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg
memorial in 1869, ".not to keep open the
sores of war but to follow the examples
of those nations who endeavored to
obliterate the marks of civil strife,
to commit to oblivion the feelings
engendered."
In his writings, Lee cited multiple
reasons for opposing such monuments,
questioning the cost of a potential
Stonewall Jackson monument, for
example. But underlying it all was
one rationale: That the war had
ended, and the South needed to move
on and avoid more upheaval.
"Lee believed countries that erased
visible signs of civil war recovered
from conflicts quicker," Horn said.
"He was worried that by keeping these
symbols alive, it would keep the
divisions alive."
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-
monuments
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| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-26 15:46 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <0mtb1l1duolhlo6cv4qo7adqss3itrq7qf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487217 |
On Sun, 24 May 2026 18:11:53 +0000, Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsB4568536A1D31629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com: > >> On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles >> <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote: >> >>>On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote: >>>> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some >>>> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad: >>>> >>>>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors? >>>> >>>> Historians. >>> >>>Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to >>>FAKE history. >> >> What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the >> local people who were the same people who filled the ranks >> of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so >> honored. >> > > > Most confederate monuments were built >in the 1900's as a snub to emerging civil >rights movements, And not by civil war veterans >like Lee who opposesd the effort It took a long time to raise the necessary funds. Remember, many of the people who fought were still alive and no general objections were raised that the time. No Federal funds were used, only state approved or private donations. > > >AI Overview: >The vast majority of Confederate statues were >erected decades after the Civil War ended, with >the largest spikes occurring between the 1890s >and 1920s, and a second wave during the 1950s >and 1960s.This timeline directly correlates >with periods of intense racial tension and >political conflict, rather than immediate post- >war mourning:The Jim Crow Era (1890s–1920s): >Most monuments were erected during this time by >groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy >(UDC). This coincided with the implementation of >segregation laws, the disenfranchisement of Black >Americans, and a revival of the Ku Klux Klan.The >Civil Rights Movement (Late 1950s–1960s): A >secondary wave of monument building and the >adoption of Confederate symbols occurred as a >direct pushback against desegregation and the >fight for equal rights. > > > >> Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army >> before he resigned his US commission and took command of >> Virginia's state forces. > > > Remember Robert E Lee who opposed building >ANY statues to himself or other Confederate >generals. It is not uncommon for someone to oppose personal recognition of accomplishments. > > > >Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments >Aug 15, 2017 > >At the center of the "Unite the Right" >rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville >last weekend was a protest of the city's >plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. >White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others >have made monuments to the Confederate >commanding general a flashpoint - at >times marching to keep them standing. But they had nothing to do with creating them. > >But Lee himself never wanted such >monuments built. > >"I think it wiser," the retired military >leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg >memorial in 1869, ".not to keep open the >sores of war but to follow the examples >of those nations who endeavored to >obliterate the marks of civil strife, >to commit to oblivion the feelings >engendered." > >In his writings, Lee cited multiple >reasons for opposing such monuments, >questioning the cost of a potential >Stonewall Jackson monument, for >example. But underlying it all was >one rationale: That the war had >ended, and the South needed to move >on and avoid more upheaval. There was a very real possibility of what is now called guerrilla warfare. > >"Lee believed countries that erased >visible signs of civil war recovered >from conflicts quicker," Horn said. >"He was worried that by keeping these >symbols alive, it would keep the >divisions alive." > >https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate- >monuments > That was his personal opinion. Others disagreed. -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 13:32 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <XnsB45A55D19C2C8629555@185.151.15.190> |
| In reply to | #3487349 |
Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
news:0mtb1l1duolhlo6cv4qo7adqss3itrq7qf@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 24 May 2026 18:11:53 +0000, Mitchell Holman
> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
> <XnsB4568536A1D31629555@185.151.15.190> wrote:
>
>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in
>>news:egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles
>>> <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id
>>> <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote:
>>>>> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some
>>>>> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors?
>>>>>
>>>>> Historians.
>>>>
>>>>Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to
>>>>FAKE history.
>>>
>>> What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the
>>> local people who were the same people who filled the ranks
>>> of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so
>>> honored.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Most confederate monuments were built
>>in the 1900's as a snub to emerging civil
>>rights movements, And not by civil war veterans
>>like Lee who opposesd the effort
>
> It took a long time to raise the necessary funds. Remember,
> many of the people who fought were still alive and no
> general objections were raised that the time.
>
> No Federal funds were used, only state approved or private
> donations.
Funding isn't the issue, honoring
troops who attacked America and killed
Americans is.
>>AI Overview:
>>The vast majority of Confederate statues were
>>erected decades after the Civil War ended, with
>>the largest spikes occurring between the 1890s
>>and 1920s, and a second wave during the 1950s
>>and 1960s.This timeline directly correlates
>>with periods of intense racial tension and
>>political conflict, rather than immediate post-
>>war mourning:The Jim Crow Era (1890s–1920s):
>>Most monuments were erected during this time by
>>groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy
>>(UDC). This coincided with the implementation of
>>segregation laws, the disenfranchisement of Black
>>Americans, and a revival of the Ku Klux Klan.The
>>Civil Rights Movement (Late 1950s–1960s): A
>>secondary wave of monument building and the
>>adoption of Confederate symbols occurred as a
>>direct pushback against desegregation and the
>>fight for equal rights.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army
>>> before he resigned his US commission and took command of
>>> Virginia's state forces.
>>
>>
>> Remember Robert E Lee who opposed building
>>ANY statues to himself or other Confederate
>>generals.
>
> It is not uncommon for someone to oppose personal
> recognition of accomplishments.
So why build monuments to honor
someone who doesn't WANT to be "honored"?
>>
>>Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments
>>Aug 15, 2017
>>
>>At the center of the "Unite the Right"
>>rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville
>>last weekend was a protest of the city's
>>plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee.
>>White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others
>>have made monuments to the Confederate
>>commanding general a flashpoint - at
>>times marching to keep them standing.
>
> But they had nothing to do with creating them.
>
>>
>>But Lee himself never wanted such
>>monuments built.
>>
>>"I think it wiser," the retired military
>>leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg
>>memorial in 1869, ".not to keep open the
>>sores of war but to follow the examples
>>of those nations who endeavored to
>>obliterate the marks of civil strife,
>>to commit to oblivion the feelings
>>engendered."
>>
>>In his writings, Lee cited multiple
>>reasons for opposing such monuments,
>>questioning the cost of a potential
>>Stonewall Jackson monument, for
>>example. But underlying it all was
>>one rationale: That the war had
>>ended, and the South needed to move
>>on and avoid more upheaval.
>
> There was a very real possibility of what is now called
> guerrilla warfare.
>
>>
>>"Lee believed countries that erased
>>visible signs of civil war recovered
>>from conflicts quicker," Horn said.
>>"He was worried that by keeping these
>>symbols alive, it would keep the
>>divisions alive."
>>
>>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-
>>monuments
>>
>
> That was his personal opinion. Others disagreed.
>
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Attila <prochoice@here.now> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 14:31 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <3a2h1l1pmmvia12e2k5sfd16pap3foha51@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #3487466 |
On Thu, 28 May 2026 13:32:35 +0000, Mitchell Holman <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id <XnsB45A55D19C2C8629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in >news:0mtb1l1duolhlo6cv4qo7adqss3itrq7qf@4ax.com: > >> On Sun, 24 May 2026 18:11:53 +0000, Mitchell Holman >> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id >> <XnsB4568536A1D31629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: >> >>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in >>>news:egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com: >>> >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles >>>> <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id >>>> <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote: >>>> >>>>>On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote: >>>>>> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some >>>>>> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors? >>>>>> >>>>>> Historians. >>>>> >>>>>Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to >>>>>FAKE history. >>>> >>>> What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the >>>> local people who were the same people who filled the ranks >>>> of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so >>>> honored. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Most confederate monuments were built >>>in the 1900's as a snub to emerging civil >>>rights movements, And not by civil war veterans >>>like Lee who opposesd the effort >> >> It took a long time to raise the necessary funds. Remember, >> many of the people who fought were still alive and no >> general objections were raised that the time. >> >> No Federal funds were used, only state approved or private >> donations. > > > Funding isn't the issue, honoring >troops who attacked America and killed >Americans is. Someone had to pay for anything erected. > > > > >>>AI Overview: >>>The vast majority of Confederate statues were >>>erected decades after the Civil War ended, with >>>the largest spikes occurring between the 1890s >>>and 1920s, and a second wave during the 1950s >>>and 1960s.This timeline directly correlates >>>with periods of intense racial tension and >>>political conflict, rather than immediate post- >>>war mourning:The Jim Crow Era (1890s–1920s): >>>Most monuments were erected during this time by >>>groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy >>>(UDC). This coincided with the implementation of >>>segregation laws, the disenfranchisement of Black >>>Americans, and a revival of the Ku Klux Klan.The >>>Civil Rights Movement (Late 1950s–1960s): A >>>secondary wave of monument building and the >>>adoption of Confederate symbols occurred as a >>>direct pushback against desegregation and the >>>fight for equal rights. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army >>>> before he resigned his US commission and took command of >>>> Virginia's state forces. >>> >>> >>> Remember Robert E Lee who opposed building >>>ANY statues to himself or other Confederate >>>generals. >> >> It is not uncommon for someone to oppose personal >> recognition of accomplishments. > > > So why build monuments to honor >someone who doesn't WANT to be "honored"? To publicly recognize what they accomplished. > > >>> >>>Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments >>>Aug 15, 2017 >>> >>>At the center of the "Unite the Right" >>>rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville >>>last weekend was a protest of the city's >>>plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. >>>White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others >>>have made monuments to the Confederate >>>commanding general a flashpoint - at >>>times marching to keep them standing. >> >> But they had nothing to do with creating them. >> >>> >>>But Lee himself never wanted such >>>monuments built. >>> >>>"I think it wiser," the retired military >>>leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg >>>memorial in 1869, ".not to keep open the >>>sores of war but to follow the examples >>>of those nations who endeavored to >>>obliterate the marks of civil strife, >>>to commit to oblivion the feelings >>>engendered." >>> >>>In his writings, Lee cited multiple >>>reasons for opposing such monuments, >>>questioning the cost of a potential >>>Stonewall Jackson monument, for >>>example. But underlying it all was >>>one rationale: That the war had >>>ended, and the South needed to move >>>on and avoid more upheaval. >> >> There was a very real possibility of what is now called >> guerrilla warfare. >> >>> >>>"Lee believed countries that erased >>>visible signs of civil war recovered >>>from conflicts quicker," Horn said. >>>"He was worried that by keeping these >>>symbols alive, it would keep the >>>divisions alive." >>> >>>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate- >>>monuments >>> >> >> That was his personal opinion. Others disagreed. >> -- Every person in the US is here either legally or illegally. Those that are here illegally should be afraid. Be very afraid. It does not matter how long you have been here. It does not matter why you are here. It does not matter what you have done legally while you were here. It does not matter what any relative may have done while you were here. It only matters that you are here illegally. It may take a day, a week, a year, or longer but we will find you and we will deport you. Be prepared. Deport them all. Due process: Q. Are you here legally? If so, where is the documentation to establish that? All politicians are trained to lie and make those lies sound like the truth. They start with the biggest lie of all: Politicians are public servants. National Socialist American Workers Party (NSAWP) formally known as the Democrat Party Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent. Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying. I support: A Constitional Amendment establishing the Freedom of Choice. The elimination of public expression, display or support of religion or religious positions.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Skeeter <invalid@none.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-05-28 12:50 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: The parties never switched on race. Everyone knows it. |
| Message-ID | <MPG.44823c5f1995811298ba57@usnews.blocknews.net> |
| In reply to | #3487481 |
In article <3a2h1l1pmmvia12e2k5sfd16pap3foha51@4ax.com>, prochoice@here.now says... > > On Thu, 28 May 2026 13:32:35 +0000, Mitchell Holman > <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id > <XnsB45A55D19C2C8629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: > > >Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in > >news:0mtb1l1duolhlo6cv4qo7adqss3itrq7qf@4ax.com: > > > >> On Sun, 24 May 2026 18:11:53 +0000, Mitchell Holman > >> <noemail@aol.com> in alt.atheism with message-id > >> <XnsB4568536A1D31629555@185.151.15.190> wrote: > >> > >>>Attila <prochoice@here.now> wrote in > >>>news:egm51lham78ndve92cpcvsk1gi5ialesrr@4ax.com: > >>> > >>>> On Sat, 23 May 2026 10:02:20 -0700, Gary Roselles > >>>> <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> in alt.atheism with message-id > >>>> <w4lQR.51260$ru1.10124@fx40.iad> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>>On 5/18/2026 3:55 PM, bondrock@ifx.net wrote: > >>>>>> On 16 May 2026, Gary Roselles <Yeowrghis@Jurgis.net> posted some > >>>>>> news:Yr7OR.121434$0hf2.62968@fx44.iad: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Who wants to preserve memorials to confederate traitors? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Historians. > >>>>> > >>>>>Bullshit. Those memorials are not "history." They are monuments to > >>>>>FAKE history. > >>>> > >>>> What part of it is fake? The monuments were erected by the > >>>> local people who were the same people who filled the ranks > >>>> of the Confederate Army and provided the people who were so > >>>> honored. > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Most confederate monuments were built > >>>in the 1900's as a snub to emerging civil > >>>rights movements, And not by civil war veterans > >>>like Lee who opposesd the effort > >> > >> It took a long time to raise the necessary funds. Remember, > >> many of the people who fought were still alive and no > >> general objections were raised that the time. > >> > >> No Federal funds were used, only state approved or private > >> donations. > > > > > > Funding isn't the issue, honoring > >troops who attacked America and killed > >Americans is. > > Someone had to pay for anything erected. > > > > > > > > > > >>>AI Overview: > >>>The vast majority of Confederate statues were > >>>erected decades after the Civil War ended, with > >>>the largest spikes occurring between the 1890s > >>>and 1920s, and a second wave during the 1950s > >>>and 1960s.This timeline directly correlates > >>>with periods of intense racial tension and > >>>political conflict, rather than immediate post- > >>>war mourning:The Jim Crow Era (1890s?1920s): > >>>Most monuments were erected during this time by > >>>groups like the United Daughters of the Confederacy > >>>(UDC). This coincided with the implementation of > >>>segregation laws, the disenfranchisement of Black > >>>Americans, and a revival of the Ku Klux Klan.The > >>>Civil Rights Movement (Late 1950s?1960s): A > >>>secondary wave of monument building and the > >>>adoption of Confederate symbols occurred as a > >>>direct pushback against desegregation and the > >>>fight for equal rights. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> Remember Robert E Lee was offered command of the Union Army > >>>> before he resigned his US commission and took command of > >>>> Virginia's state forces. > >>> > >>> > >>> Remember Robert E Lee who opposed building > >>>ANY statues to himself or other Confederate > >>>generals. > >> > >> It is not uncommon for someone to oppose personal > >> recognition of accomplishments. > > > > > > So why build monuments to honor > >someone who doesn't WANT to be "honored"? > > To publicly recognize what they accomplished. > > > > > > >>> > >>>Robert E. Lee opposed Confederate monuments > >>>Aug 15, 2017 > >>> > >>>At the center of the "Unite the Right" > >>>rally that turned deadly in Charlottesville > >>>last weekend was a protest of the city's > >>>plan to remove a statue of Robert E. Lee. > >>>White supremacists, neo-Nazis and others > >>>have made monuments to the Confederate > >>>commanding general a flashpoint - at > >>>times marching to keep them standing. > >> > >> But they had nothing to do with creating them. > >> > >>> > >>>But Lee himself never wanted such > >>>monuments built. > >>> > >>>"I think it wiser," the retired military > >>>leader wrote about a proposed Gettysburg > >>>memorial in 1869, ".not to keep open the > >>>sores of war but to follow the examples > >>>of those nations who endeavored to > >>>obliterate the marks of civil strife, > >>>to commit to oblivion the feelings > >>>engendered." > >>> > >>>In his writings, Lee cited multiple > >>>reasons for opposing such monuments, > >>>questioning the cost of a potential > >>>Stonewall Jackson monument, for > >>>example. But underlying it all was > >>>one rationale: That the war had > >>>ended, and the South needed to move > >>>on and avoid more upheaval. > >> > >> There was a very real possibility of what is now called > >> guerrilla warfare. > >> > >>> > >>>"Lee believed countries that erased > >>>visible signs of civil war recovered > >>>from conflicts quicker," Horn said. > >>>"He was worried that by keeping these > >>>symbols alive, it would keep the > >>>divisions alive." > >>> > >>>https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate- > >>>monuments > >>> > >> > >> That was his personal opinion. Others disagreed. > >> Only state approved or private donations.
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