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Groups > alt.atheism > #1961434 > unrolled thread

Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science.

Started bywdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr)
First post2015-08-16 01:26 -0400
Last post2015-08-19 07:43 +0800
Articles 20 on this page of 74 — 15 participants

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  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2015-08-16 01:26 -0400
    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-16 19:53 +0800
      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-08-16 14:58 +0100
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-17 10:52 +0800
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-17 05:56 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-17 19:49 +0800
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-17 18:50 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-18 13:33 +0800
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-18 03:26 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-19 07:26 +0800
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-19 04:35 -0400
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-19 20:41 +0800
                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-20 04:58 -0400
                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-20 22:44 +0800
                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-21 05:01 -0400
                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-22 08:10 +0800
                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-22 03:42 -0400
                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-22 16:26 +0800
                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 09:21 -0700
                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-23 17:45 +0800
                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-23 03:59 -0400
                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-23 21:17 +0800
                                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-23 17:04 -0400
                                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-24 23:40 +0800
                                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 10:24 -0700
                                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-24 11:05 -0700
                                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Christopher A. Lee <c.lee@fairpoint.net> - 2015-08-24 14:55 -0500
                                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-26 07:28 +0800
                                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-25 16:55 -0700
                                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 00:10 +0800
                                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-26 14:49 -0700
                                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 17:20 +0800
                                                          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. nature bats last <seqklogw@gmail.com> - 2015-08-27 02:48 -0700
                                                            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 20:02 +0800
                                              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-24 20:32 -0400
                                                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-26 07:45 +0800
                                                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-26 03:45 -0400
                                                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 00:31 +0800
                                                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-26 16:48 -0400
                                                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-27 17:33 +0800
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 22:51 +0000
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-19 08:48 +0800
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2015-08-18 18:30 -0700
                      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-18 19:15 -0700
                        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-19 04:39 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-19 04:38 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-08-17 13:21 +0100
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-17 19:19 -0400
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-08-17 13:40 +0100
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-17 12:34 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-18 00:51 +0800
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-17 14:36 -0400
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Wexford Eire <wexford.eire.1798@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 10:05 -0700
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-22 01:13 +0800
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Wexford Eire <wexford.eire.1798@gmail.com> - 2015-08-21 20:38 -0700
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-22 16:28 +0800
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Cloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com> - 2015-08-22 11:52 -0700
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-23 17:47 +0800
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-08-23 16:09 +0100
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-25 00:14 +0800
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-17 21:52 -0700
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 00:57 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 01:10 -0400
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 01:23 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-17 22:30 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-17 22:32 -0700
                  Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-08-18 01:37 -0400
                    Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-08-17 23:38 -0700
      Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-17 05:55 -0400
        Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-17 20:12 +0800
          Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-17 19:25 -0400
            Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-18 13:45 +0800
              Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. Attila <<prochoice@here.now> - 2015-08-18 03:28 -0400
                Re: Atheism is based on beliefs, not science. niunian <niunian@ymail.com> - 2015-08-19 07:43 +0800

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#1963662

FromDoug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com>
Date2015-08-18 22:51 +0000
Message-ID<mr0csj$k35$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1963157
niunian wrote:
> Attila  wrote:
>
>> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.

As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.  As far
back as can be found, a large percentage of the poulation has no direct
observation of the spirits of the world.

So there's no surprise that any one individual does not detect them.

> I'm afraid your physical eyes can not see the spiritual world the same 
> way your physical science can not prove or disprove philosophy. The 
> spiritual existence is beyond the ability of your physical eyes.

Yet no instrument has ever detected the spirits of the world, either. 
As such that direct personal observation does not constitute "evidence".

Until some such instrument is invented, if ever, the matter of direct
personal observeration that is the starting point of all religion
remains outside of the realm of science.  To the extent no one tries to
impose their observations on others - Ooops there for a small number of
very large population religions.  To the extent no one claims that the
existence of their deity can be proved by science - Ooops there for one
specific very large population religion.

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#1963721

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-19 08:48 +0800
Message-ID<mr0jm5$7pf$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1963662
On 2015-08-19 06:51 AM, Doug Freyburger wrote:
> niunian wrote:
>> Attila  wrote:
>>
>>> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.
>
> As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
> had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.

It's not called "observation". It's better called as "understanding". It 
is not possible to "observe" the spiritual world.

   As far
> back as can be found, a large percentage of the poulation has no direct
> observation of the spirits of the world.
>
> So there's no surprise that any one individual does not detect them.
>
>> I'm afraid your physical eyes can not see the spiritual world the same
>> way your physical science can not prove or disprove philosophy. The
>> spiritual existence is beyond the ability of your physical eyes.
>
> Yet no instrument has ever detected the spirits of the world, either.
> As such that direct personal observation does not constitute "evidence".
>
> Until some such instrument is invented,

No need to bother. It can not be done.


  if ever, the matter of direct
> personal observeration that is the starting point of all religion
> remains outside of the realm of science.  To the extent no one tries to
> impose their observations on others - Ooops there for a small number of
> very large population religions.  To the extent no one claims that the
> existence of their deity can be proved by science - Ooops there for one
> specific very large population religion.

Your claim is flawed. Religion is a philosophy of life that is outside 
science. Science can not prove or disprove philosophy. It is neither 
capable, nor qualified to talk about philosophy.


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#1963743

FromJeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com>
Date2015-08-18 18:30 -0700
Message-ID<hlwdjsd2-334022.18302018082015@news.giganews.com>
In reply to#1963662
In article <mr0csj$k35$1@dont-email.me>,
 Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:

> niunian wrote:
> > Attila  wrote:
> >
> >> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.
> 
> As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
> had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.  ]


What "spirits"? Do you have any evidence that any such thing exists?

And, no, visions indistinguishable from hallucinations are not evidence.

-- 

JD

I've officially given up trying to find the bottom 
of the barrel that is Republican depravity.--Jidyom 
Rosario, Addicting Info

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#1963780

FromKevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
Date2015-08-18 19:15 -0700
Message-ID<d0d901c9-a769-40f7-91e1-a805a92772f1@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#1963743
On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 9:30:23 PM UTC-4, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
> In article <mr0csj$k35$1@dont-email.me>,
>  Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > niunian wrote:
> > > Attila  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.
> > 
> > As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
> > had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.  ]
> 
> 
> What "spirits"? Do you have any evidence that any such thing exists?

...and "are they friendly spirits?"

[/Rocket J Squirrel]


> And, no, visions indistinguishable from hallucinations are not evidence.

Hear her! Hear her!

Kevin R

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#1963952

FromAttila <<prochoice@here.now>
Date2015-08-19 04:39 -0400
Message-ID<j4g8tadqu3n73rdh87ksq2nq2jsbndsobq@4ax.com>
In reply to#1963780
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 19:15:34 -0700 (PDT), Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com>
in alt.atheism with message-id
<d0d901c9-a769-40f7-91e1-a805a92772f1@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 9:30:23 PM UTC-4, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>> In article <mr0csj$k35$1@dont-email.me>,
>>  Doug Freyburger <dfreybur@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>> > niunian wrote:
>> > > Attila  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.
>> > 
>> > As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
>> > had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.  ]
>> 
>> 
>> What "spirits"? Do you have any evidence that any such thing exists?
>
>...and "are they friendly spirits?"
>
>[/Rocket J Squirrel]
>
Casper?

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1963951

FromAttila <<prochoice@here.now>
Date2015-08-19 04:38 -0400
Message-ID<jvf8tah1h8hi8fjrkqgqvra3nc0f54b0fk@4ax.com>
In reply to#1963662
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 22:51:00 +0000 (UTC), Doug Freyburger
<dfreybur@yahoo.com> in alt.atheism with message-id
<mr0csj$k35$1@dont-email.me> wrote:

>niunian wrote:
>> Attila  wrote:
>>
>>> I have yet to see any evidence any 'spiritual world' ever existed.
>
>As far back as can be found, a small percentage of the population has
>had direct personal observation of the spirits of the world.  As far
>back as can be found, a large percentage of the poulation has no direct
>observation of the spirits of the world.
>
>So there's no surprise that any one individual does not detect them.

I wonder what percentage of that "small percentage' was on drugs at
the time?  Or was delusional?

Or flat out lied?

>
>> I'm afraid your physical eyes can not see the spiritual world the same 
>> way your physical science can not prove or disprove philosophy. The 
>> spiritual existence is beyond the ability of your physical eyes.
>
>Yet no instrument has ever detected the spirits of the world, either. 
>As such that direct personal observation does not constitute "evidence".
>
>Until some such instrument is invented, if ever, the matter of direct
>personal observeration that is the starting point of all religion
>remains outside of the realm of science.  To the extent no one tries to
>impose their observations on others - Ooops there for a small number of
>very large population religions.  To the extent no one claims that the
>existence of their deity can be proved by science - Ooops there for one
>specific very large population religion.

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1962456

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2015-08-17 13:21 +0100
Message-ID<d3e1u7Ftc24U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1962394
On 17/08/2015 10:56, Attila < wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:52:33 +0800, niunian <niunian@ymail.com> in
> alt.atheism with message-id <mqri7d$uc4$1@dont-email.me> wrote:
>
>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>
>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>
>>> <looks around>
>>>
>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>
>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>> called a realization from the within.
>
> It sounds like ambiguous poppycock to me.

There's nothing ambiguous about it being poppycock.

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#1962908

FromAttila <<prochoice@here.now>
Date2015-08-17 19:19 -0400
Message-ID<6uq4tahd8mg45vs3dghskhle3j5mt78hbp@4ax.com>
In reply to#1962456
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:21:27 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> in
alt.atheism with message-id <d3e1u7Ftc24U2@mid.individual.net> wrote:

>On 17/08/2015 10:56, Attila < wrote:
>> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 10:52:33 +0800, niunian <niunian@ymail.com> in
>> alt.atheism with message-id <mqri7d$uc4$1@dont-email.me> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>>
>>>> <looks around>
>>>>
>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>>
>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>>> called a realization from the within.
>>
>> It sounds like ambiguous poppycock to me.
>
>There's nothing ambiguous about it being poppycock.
>

True, but it also contains more than a bit of ambiguity.

--
Some of the Republican positions I find disgusting and abhorrent.

Most of the Democratic positions I find terrifying, especially 
those proposed by His Imperial Majesty Emperor Ass.

Any day now I expect some liberal to demand a government 
guaranteed above average income for every person.

Every illegal alien is a criminal.
No amnesty or work permit under any name or for any reason.
Deportation upon identification as the only option.

If you must text and drive please kill yourself quickly
before you run into me.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1962478

From"Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2015-08-17 13:40 +0100
Message-ID<d3e321FtnnhU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1962201
On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>
>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>> world of death.
>>>>
>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>
>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>> living will cease to exist.
>>
>> <looks around>
>>
>> No god, and everything is still here...
>
> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
> called a realization from the within.

I did experience that once.
It was a fever-induced hallucination.
I recovered.

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#1962587

Fromkefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com>
Date2015-08-17 12:34 -0400
Message-ID<e834ta9h4dll00bapme756e4c7mlrem7if@4ax.com>
In reply to#1962478
On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:40:33 +0100, "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote nonsense:

        More nonsense about nothingness cross-posted
indiscriminately.





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#1962605

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-18 00:51 +0800
Message-ID<mqt3bj$96o$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1962478
On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>
>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the
>>>> world of
>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>
>>> <looks around>
>>>
>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>
>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>> called a realization from the within.
>
> I did experience that once.
> It was a fever-induced hallucination.
> I recovered.

Nothing to do with hallucinations. It's just simple understanding with 
the power to change one's life. The mind is clear and at peace. No 
visual image, and no voices in the mind.

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#1962676

Fromkefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com>
Date2015-08-17 14:36 -0400
Message-ID<nba4ta1mf65v9vfic43j4e3mas5asia874@4ax.com>
In reply to#1962605
On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 00:51:06 +0800, niunian <niunian@ymail.com> wrote:

>On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote nothing but nonsense:

        More nonsense about nothingness cross-posted
indiscriminately.





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#1965818

FromWexford Eire <wexford.eire.1798@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-21 10:05 -0700
Message-ID<1195d80b-9d48-4552-810b-9db4bcdfc411@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#1962605
On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 12:51:39 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
> On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> > On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
> >> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> >>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
> >>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
> >>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
> >>>>>> world of death.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And what definition is _that_?
> >>>>
> >>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
> >>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the
> >>>> world of
> >>>> living will cease to exist.
> >>>
> >>> <looks around>
> >>>
> >>> No god, and everything is still here...
> >>
> >> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
> >> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
> >> called a realization from the within.
> >
> > I did experience that once.
> > It was a fever-induced hallucination.
> > I recovered.
> 
> Nothing to do with hallucinations. It's just simple understanding with 
> the power to change one's life. The mind is clear and at peace. No 
> visual image, and no voices in the mind.

Of course you realize you're skating on the thin ice of insanity. 

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#1965826

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-22 01:13 +0800
Message-ID<mr7m4q$b36$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1965818
On 2015-08-22 01:05 AM, Wexford Eire wrote:
> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 12:51:39 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
>> On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>> On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the
>>>>>> world of
>>>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> <looks around>
>>>>>
>>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>>>
>>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>>>> called a realization from the within.
>>>
>>> I did experience that once.
>>> It was a fever-induced hallucination.
>>> I recovered.
>>
>> Nothing to do with hallucinations. It's just simple understanding with
>> the power to change one's life. The mind is clear and at peace. No
>> visual image, and no voices in the mind.
>
> Of course you realize you're skating on the thin ice of insanity.
>

I was afraid you would say that. It was why I specifically said there 
was no visual image and no voices in the mind. It is simple awakening, 
the enlightenment, the salvation.

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#1966282

FromWexford Eire <wexford.eire.1798@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-21 20:38 -0700
Message-ID<e0afa970-f34d-4219-ad50-fe6b487ef705@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#1965826
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
> On 2015-08-22 01:05 AM, Wexford Eire wrote:
> > On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 12:51:39 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
> >> On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> >>> On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
> >>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> >>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
> >>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
> >>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
> >>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
> >>>>>>>> world of death.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
> >>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the
> >>>>>> world of
> >>>>>> living will cease to exist.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <looks around>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
> >>>>
> >>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
> >>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
> >>>> called a realization from the within.
> >>>
> >>> I did experience that once.
> >>> It was a fever-induced hallucination.
> >>> I recovered.
> >>
> >> Nothing to do with hallucinations. It's just simple understanding with
> >> the power to change one's life. The mind is clear and at peace. No
> >> visual image, and no voices in the mind.
> >
> > Of course you realize you're skating on the thin ice of insanity.
> >
> 
> I was afraid you would say that. It was why I specifically said there 
> was no visual image and no voices in the mind. It is simple awakening, 
> the enlightenment, the salvation.

Uh huh. But you still "feel" the presence, don't you? 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1966388

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-22 16:28 +0800
Message-ID<mr9bo2$nlp$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1966282
On 2015-08-22 11:38 AM, Wexford Eire wrote:
> On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 1:13:40 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
>> On 2015-08-22 01:05 AM, Wexford Eire wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 17, 2015 at 12:51:39 PM UTC-4, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-17 08:40 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>> On 17/08/2015 03:52, niunian wrote:
>>>>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the
>>>>>>>> world of
>>>>>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <looks around>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>>>>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>>>>>> called a realization from the within.
>>>>>
>>>>> I did experience that once.
>>>>> It was a fever-induced hallucination.
>>>>> I recovered.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing to do with hallucinations. It's just simple understanding with
>>>> the power to change one's life. The mind is clear and at peace. No
>>>> visual image, and no voices in the mind.
>>>
>>> Of course you realize you're skating on the thin ice of insanity.
>>>
>>
>> I was afraid you would say that. It was why I specifically said there
>> was no visual image and no voices in the mind. It is simple awakening,
>> the enlightenment, the salvation.
>
> Uh huh. But you still "feel" the presence, don't you?
>

Not a fucking chance!

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#1966762

FromCloud Hobbit <youngblood2949@gmail.com>
Date2015-08-22 11:52 -0700
Message-ID<dc1b2f93-08b2-42d2-af3d-c755e8dd62bc@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#1962201
On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 7:53:09 PM UTC-7, niunian wrote:
> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
> > On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
> >> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
> >>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>
> >>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
> >>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
> >>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Um, what definition is that?
> >>>>
> >>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
> >>>> world of death.
> >>>
> >>> And what definition is _that_?
> >>
> >> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
> >> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
> >> living will cease to exist.
> >
> > <looks around>
> >
> > No god, and everything is still here...
> 
> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around, 
> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's 
> called a realization from the within.

Sounds more like a hallucination. 

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#1967504

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-23 17:47 +0800
Message-ID<mrc4p0$p0h$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1966762
On 2015-08-23 02:52 AM, Cloud Hobbit wrote:
> On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 7:53:09 PM UTC-7, niunian wrote:
>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>
>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>
>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>
>>> <looks around>
>>>
>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>
>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>> called a realization from the within.
>
> Sounds more like a hallucination.
>

It can't be a hallucination if there is no image to be seen and no voice 
to be heard.

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#1967704

FromJohn Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk>
Date2015-08-23 16:09 +0100
Message-ID<YLoJnIABJe2VFwcN@hotmail.co.uk>
In reply to#1967504
In article <mrc4p0$p0h$2@dont-email.me>, niunian <niunian@ymail.com>
writes
>On 2015-08-23 02:52 AM, Cloud Hobbit wrote:
>> On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 7:53:09 PM UTC-7, niunian wrote:
>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>>
>>>> <looks around>
>>>>
>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>>
>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>>> called a realization from the within.
>>
>> Sounds more like a hallucination.
>>
>
>It can't be a hallucination if there is no image to be seen and no voice 
>to be heard.

Maybe you detect it by the smell?


-- 
John Ritson

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#1968723

Fromniunian <niunian@ymail.com>
Date2015-08-25 00:14 +0800
Message-ID<mrfiru$rfd$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1967704
On 2015-08-23 11:09 PM, John Ritson wrote:
> In article <mrc4p0$p0h$2@dont-email.me>, niunian <niunian@ymail.com>
> writes
>> On 2015-08-23 02:52 AM, Cloud Hobbit wrote:
>>> On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 7:53:09 PM UTC-7, niunian wrote:
>>>> On 2015-08-16 09:58 PM, Alex W. wrote:
>>>>> On 16/08/2015 12:53, niunian wrote:
>>>>>> On 2015-08-16 01:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <mqke7a$vf2$9@dont-email.me>,
>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2015-08-13 09:26 PM, William December Starr wrote:
>>>>>>>>> niunian <niunian@ymail.com> said:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The fear of death can also be a purpose. It would be bowing down
>>>>>>>>>> to the god of death which by definition, is the devil.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Um, what definition is that?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> By definition, God rules the world of living, the devil rules the
>>>>>>>> world of death.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And what definition is _that_?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the definition of God as the living God who gives life to all
>>>>>> living things. Without God, all living things will die, and the world of
>>>>>> living will cease to exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> <looks around>
>>>>>
>>>>> No god, and everything is still here...
>>>>
>>>> The God of living is from within, not without. So stop looking around,
>>>> there is nothing you can see with your eyes or hear with your ears. It's
>>>> called a realization from the within.
>>>
>>> Sounds more like a hallucination.
>>>
>>
>> It can't be a hallucination if there is no image to be seen and no voice
>> to be heard.
>
> Maybe you detect it by the smell?

No. It only comes when we stop trying to detect it with our senses. The 
harder we try, the more difficult for it to happen. It's by the 
persistent concentration there is understanding arising from the within.

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