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Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False?

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On 03/03/2016 10:41, Malcolm McMahon wrote:
> On Thursday, 3 March 2016 10:25:40 UTC, Alex W.  wrote:
>> On 03/03/2016 00:32, Jeanne Douglas wrote:
>>> In article <part1of1.1.dXHr8G3CwGHgew@ue.ph>, Malcolm McMahon
>>> <malcolm@theriomorph.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <djlvb8Fb9n9U1@mid.individual.net>, "Alex W."
>>>>> <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/03/2016 16:28, Malcolm McMahon wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, 29 February 2016 04:12:56 UTC, Bill Tucker
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> By Megan McArdle How many women falsely accuse men of
>>>>>>>> rape?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rape's tricky. Not the dragging into the bushes kind, but
>>>>>>> "date rape". Rape's tricky because it hinges on consent,
>>>>>>> which can be slippery and subjective impressions, which
>>>>>>> can, and often are, edited in recall because we want to
>>>>>>> write a better story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which, by the sound of it, is what Julian Assange fell foul
>>>>>> of.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I imagine that there are quite common instances where the
>>>>>>> man genuinely doesn't believe that what he did was rape,
>>>>>>> while the woman genuinely believes that it was.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consequently it's impossible to even estimate how many
>>>>>>> accusations are false.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That aside, the men's names are quite commonly publicised
>>>>>> in the press whereas the women are permitted to remain
>>>>>> anonymous.  In cases where a prosecution fails or even in
>>>>>> cases where it is clear that the woman has made a false
>>>>>> accusation, she continues to enjoy the protection of
>>>>>> anonymity.  This makes it all the harder to establish even
>>>>>> reasonable approximations of such instances.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That it sometimes hides false accusers, it's a small price to
>>>>> pay to defend all the women who are survivors.
>>>>
>>>> A false alegation of Rape can ruin a man's life as completely
>>>> as genuine rape can ruin a woman's
>>>>
>>>> Sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.
>>>
>>>
>>> Any woman who files a false rape report is making it harder for
>>> all the women who actually were raped and not believed. It's
>>> absolutely despicable.
>>>
>>> They should spend the time in prison that a rapist would.
>>>
>>
>> I wouldn't even go that far.  There are other charges that could
>> and should be filed against such persons: perverting the course of
>> justice and perjury spring to mind.
>
> But then the standard of proof would require that there be proof that
> _no_ rape took place "beyond a reasonable doubt". And that will, more
> often than not, be impossible.

Not really.
What would be required is proof that the person knowingly led law 
enforcement astray, that they made false statements.  Proving that no 
rape occurred is even trickier than proving that a rape did take place, 
but catching out someone in deliberate lies is a good deal easier.


>
> Most people who have sex do so without witnesses. In a lot of cases
> the fact of sexual intercourse is not in dispute. (Which might,
> otherwise, be evidenced by forensics).
>
> So, very often, whether rape took place or not is a matter of the
> perceptions of the two people involved. Impossible either to prove or
> to disprove.

True...

Perversely, in traditional and strongly patriarchal societies where 
women are deprived of rights and a voice, it is often easier to 
determine rape because it is defined differently: merely having sex with 
an unmarried woman qualifies.


>
>
>
>>
>> At the very least she should be deprived of her anonymity, and she
>> should be banned from profiting from her deeds (selling her stories
>> to the media).
>
> That will sometimes happen in the rare case when the accusation can
> be definitively disproved.
>
> But how many women would report genuine rapes if they were taking a
> gamble against the prosecution's failure to convince a jury, with
> dire consequences to them should the prosecution fail?

I wasn't even thinking of failed prosecutions.  These happen, and will 
continue to happen -- short of mandatory videotaping of the entire 
evening including the sex act itself (body cams, maybe?) there will 
always be room for doubt and confusion and misinterpretation.

What I was referring to are those thankfully rare cases where a 
prosecution fails or is abandoned because it becomes clear that the 
accusation itself is false.

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Thread

How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Bill Tucker" <btucker@outlook.com> - 2016-02-29 05:03 +0100
  Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-02-28 21:45 -0800
    Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? & <ampersand.the.great@gmail.com> - 2016-02-29 13:35 -0500
  Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Malcolm McMahon <malcolm.mc74@googlemail.com> - 2016-03-01 08:28 -0800
    Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-01 16:46 +0000
      Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-01 16:38 -0800
        Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Malcolm McMahon <malcolm@theriomorph.me.uk> - 2016-03-02 13:52 +0000
          Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Let Cos. Be - No Justice For Sluts" <opuzayo@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 12:43 -0800
            Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Hope Simmers <Hope_Simmers@hotmail.com> - 2016-03-02 13:35 -0800
            Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-03-03 00:05 -0500
              Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-02 21:53 -0800
          Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-02 16:32 -0800
            Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-03 10:25 +0000
              Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Malcolm McMahon <malcolm.mc74@googlemail.com> - 2016-03-03 02:41 -0800
                Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-03 18:40 +0000
                Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Malcolm McMahon <malcolm.mc74@googlemail.com> - 2016-03-04 03:14 -0800
              Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-03 14:05 -0800
                Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Alex W." <ingilt@yahoo.co.uk> - 2016-03-04 16:00 +0000
  Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jefferson Was A Slave Molester <kolwezzi@astromail.com> - 2016-03-01 08:39 -0800
    Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2016-03-01 23:41 -0500
      Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Jeanne Douglas <hlwdjsd2@NOSPAMgmail.com> - 2016-03-02 01:40 -0800
        Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "james g. keegan jr." <jgkeegan@gmaîl.com> - 2016-03-02 10:20 -0800
        Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? "Let Cos. Be - No Justice For Sluts" <opuzayo@gmail.com> - 2016-03-02 12:38 -0800
          Re: How Many Rape Reports Are False? Hope Simmers <Hope_Simmers@hotmail.com> - 2016-03-02 13:32 -0800

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