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Deep Thought

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  Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-22 14:26 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought Double-A <doublea333@gmail.com> - 2018-07-22 14:45 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought Mark Earnest <gmearnest@att.net> - 2018-07-22 19:59 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought IAM <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-22 20:23 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-07-23 16:43 +0200
      Re: Deep Thought Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-23 18:08 +0200
        Re: Deep Thought "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-23 21:45 -0700
          Re: Deep Thought Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-07-24 11:42 +0200
            Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-24 11:21 -0700
            Re: Deep Thought "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-24 16:52 -0700
              Re: Deep Thought Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-07-25 22:31 +0200
                Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-25 23:36 -0700
                  Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-26 11:23 -0700
                    Re: Deep Thought benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-07-26 19:45 -0400
                Re: Deep Thought "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-25 23:56 -0700
                  Re: Deep Thought "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-26 00:00 -0700
                  Re: Deep Thought Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-07-27 17:01 +1000
                    Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-27 10:38 -0700
                      Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-28 10:38 -0700
                    Re: Deep Thought Double-A <doublea333@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 13:13 -0700
                      Re: Deep Thought Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-07-28 21:25 +1000
                    Re: Deep Thought "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-27 14:29 -0700
                      Re: Deep Thought Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-07-28 12:00 +0200
                        Re: Deep Thought Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-28 14:44 +0200
                  Re: Deep Thought Herbert Glazier <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-07-27 13:58 -0700
                    Re: Deep Thought "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-07-27 14:08 -0700
                  Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 15:59 -0700
                    Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-12 16:15 -0700
                      Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 16:30 -0700
                      Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-13 21:20 -0700
                        Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-13 23:42 -0700
                          Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-14 00:36 -0700
                            Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-28 00:21 -0700
                              Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-28 00:56 -0700
                                Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-08-28 19:23 +1000
                                  Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-29 00:01 -0700
                                Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-28 23:58 -0700
                                  Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-29 11:09 -0700
                                    Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-29 20:24 +0200
                                      Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-29 13:39 -0700
                                        Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-30 03:43 +0200
                                          Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-29 20:43 -0700
                                            Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-31 00:52 +0200
                                              Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-31 09:48 -0700
                                                Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-08-31 22:46 -0700
                                                  Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-09-01 13:50 +0200
                                                  Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-09-01 09:37 -0700
                                                    Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. IAM <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2018-09-01 12:54 -0700
                                  Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-29 18:09 -0700
                                    Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-08-30 04:36 +0200
          Re: Deep Thought Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-24 21:19 +0200
            Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-24 13:04 -0700
              Re: Deep Thought Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-07-25 03:36 +0200
                Re: Deep Thought The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-07-24 22:44 -0700
          Re: Deep Thought IAM <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-24 18:32 -0700
      Re: Deep Thought Double-A <doublea333@gmail.com> - 2018-07-23 13:00 -0700
      Re: Deep Thought IAM <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2018-07-23 19:01 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought Mark Earnest <gmearnest@att.net> - 2018-07-23 08:56 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought "C. Deifir" <cdf@dfr.net.inv> - 2018-07-23 21:18 +0100
    Re: Deep Thought Herbert Glazier <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-07-24 09:46 -0700
      Re: Deep Thought "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-07-24 09:49 -0700
    Re: Deep Thought Herbert Glazier <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2018-07-25 16:09 -0700
      Re: Deep Thought "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-07-25 19:09 -0700

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#300624

Double-A wrote on 28/07/2018 6:13 AM:
> On Friday, July 27, 2018 at 12:03:00 AM UTC-7, Daniel60 wrote:
>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 26/07/2018 4:56 PM:
>>> On 7/25/2018 1:31 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> 
>> <Snip>
>> 
>>>> That would be a creation out of nothing.
>>> 
>>> Where did the matter come from? What state was it in before the 
>>> "big-bang"?
>> 
>> The matter that formed our Universe at the time of The Big Band
>> came from the two other Universes that smacked together at the time
>> of The Big Bank!!
> 
> Sounds like the Ekpyrotic theory.
> 
Hmm!! First time I've heard that term, so checked it out ... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekpyrotic_universe

That site says it was proposed in 2001 ... but reminds me of a theory 
that was defeated by the Big Bang Theory, back in the 60's/70's ... was 
it called The Steady State Theory?? ... 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steady_state_model

-- 
Daniel

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#300606

On 7/27/2018 12:01 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 26/07/2018 4:56 PM:
>> On 7/25/2018 1:31 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> <Snip>
> 
>>> That would be a creation out of nothing.
>>
>> Where did the matter come from? What state was it in before the
>> "big-bang"?
> 
> The matter that formed our Universe at the time of The Big Band came 
> from the two other Universes that smacked together at the time of The 
> Big Bank!!

I wonder if a super cluster of hyper massive black holes that finally 
merges into one, can perhaps create new child universes within the 
resulting crazy giant black hole. This means that our own universe has 
many children.

I also wonder if there are male and female "class" black holes within 
said super cluster that finally merged together into a single entity. 
Almost like fish spawning within a liquid.

All sci-fi of course. I simply cannot prove any of it.

Well, it does kind of seen like the "edge" of the universe might 
resemble an event horizon of sorts. It kind of hints that we might be 
totally contained within a black hole residing in our parent universe.

Sound even a tiny bit Kosher? ;^o

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#300622

Am 27.07.2018 um 23:29 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> On 7/27/2018 12:01 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 26/07/2018 4:56 PM:
>>> On 7/25/2018 1:31 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>
>> <Snip>
>>
>>>> That would be a creation out of nothing.
>>>
>>> Where did the matter come from? What state was it in before the
>>> "big-bang"?
>>
>> The matter that formed our Universe at the time of The Big Band came 
>> from the two other Universes that smacked together at the time of The 
>> Big Bank!!
> 
> I wonder if a super cluster of hyper massive black holes that finally 
> merges into one, can perhaps create new child universes within the 
> resulting crazy giant black hole. This means that our own universe has 
> many children.

We could compare 'black hole' to 'length contraction' in 3D.

Length contraction is actually only one dimensional (in SRT in 'x' 
direction).

Since the world is not one dimensional, we could try a 3d version of 
relativistic shrinking.

The reason for deformation is a Lorentz transform, caused by high 
velocity and a changing axis of time.

If we would apply a Lorentz transform to a large piece of space, the 3d 
version off length contraction would look like a black hole.

There the axis of time points away from our world and sucks everything 
in reach into a timelike future.

Then the stuff sucked in pops out of nowhere in a different world, which 
we cannot see and whoms inhabitants cannot see us.

They would call the process of creation 'big bang', while we would call 
it 'big crunch'  or 'super-massive black hole'.

Both views are in fact wrong, since actually we would only experience 
the usual behavior of the axis of time.

TH


..

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#300627

Thomas Heger wrote:

> Am 27.07.2018 um 23:29 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
>> On 7/27/2018 12:01 AM, Daniel60 wrote:
>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 26/07/2018 4:56 PM:
>>>> On 7/25/2018 1:31 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>>> That would be a creation out of nothing.
>>>> Where did the matter come from? What state was it in before the
>>>> "big-bang"?
>>> The matter that formed our Universe at the time of The Big Band came 
>>> from the two other Universes that smacked together at the time of The 
>>> Big Bank!!
>>
>> I wonder if a super cluster of hyper massive black holes that finally 
>> merges into one, can perhaps create new child universes within the 
>> resulting crazy giant black hole. This means that our own universe has 
>> many children.
> 
> We could compare 'black hole' to 'length contraction' in 3D.

But that would be “not even wrong”.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong>

> Length contraction is actually only one dimensional (in SRT in 'x' 
> direction).

Length contraction in FLAT spacetime is observed in the direction of
relative motion, whatever direction that is.  Typically (for simplicity) one
chooses the coordinate system such that the x-axis of the coordinate system
is parallel to the direction of motion, i.e. that the motion is in the +x or
−x direction.

> Since the world is not one dimensional, we could try a 3d version of 
> relativistic shrinking.
> 
> The reason for deformation is a Lorentz transform,

No, the underlying reason is the observed constancy of the speed of light.
The Lorentz transformation (as we understand it NOW) describes the
CONSEQUENCES of that MATHEMATICALLY.

> caused by high velocity

By ANY NON-ZERO RELATIVE velocity v.  The Lorentz transformation
of the coordinate of space in the direction of relative motion is

   x' = γ (x − v t)    (1).

We consider two spatially separated events

  e₁ = (x₁, t₁) ≡ (x₁', t₁')
  e₂ = (x₂, t₂) ≡ (x₂', t₂').

By application of (1) and the assumption of linearity regarding uniform
motion and the passage of time, it follows trivially:

  x₁' = γ (x₁ − v t₁)
  x₂' = γ (x₂ − v t₂)

  ∆x  = x₂  − x₁
  ∆t  = t₂  − t₁
  ∆x' = x₂' − x₁'

→ ∆x' = γ (∆x − v ∆t)

When we measure lengths we measure the distance in space between end points
AT THE SAME TIME:

   t₁ = t₂
→ ∆t  = 0

→ ∆x' = γ ∆x
  ∆x  = ∆x'∕γ

  γ  := 1∕√(1 − v²∕c²) > 1 if v ≠ 0.

→ ∆x  < ∆x'                if v ≠ 0. ∎

> and a changing axis of time.

There is no “changing axis of time”.  You have STILL not even understood
SPECIAL relativity.

Once again (how many more times do I have to explain that to you?):
In a Minkowski spacetime diagram –

  time
  ^
  :
  :
  :
  :
  :
  :
  '-------------> space

–, the axis of time (with coordinates t') of a frame of reference that is
moving parallel to the axis of space of a chosen rest frame (with
coordinates x) has to be skewed compared to the axis of time of that rest
frame (with coordinates t) because the x-origin of the moving frame
(x' = 0) is moving relative to the rest frame, and in the moving frame, too,
proper time has to be measured:

    t      t'
    ^      ^
    :     :
    :    :
    :   :
    :  :
    : :
    ::
    :-------------> x
   :
  x' = 0

The x-axis of the moving frame (with coordinates x') is skewed compared to
the axis of space of the rest frame because of the RELATIVITY OF
SIMULTANEITY (t₁ = t₂ = t₁' → t₂ < t₂') that is a consequence of the
isotropic speed of light (c = const.):

  t      t'
  ^      ^
  :     :
  :    :
  :   :        _> x'
  :  :     _.-'
  : :  _.-'
  ::.-'
  +-------------> x
  :\
  : \
  :  x' = 0
  :
  x = 0

As a result, because we define length as the distance in space between two
end points in space AT THE SAME TIME, lengths in the rest frame (t₁ = t₂)
are shorter than the otherwise same lengths in the moving frame (t₁' = t₂').

                          t₂'
                 ∆x' _.-:
                 _.-'   :
             _.-'     . :
  t₁, t₁'  -'-----------' t₂
          x₁     ∆x     x₂

  ∆x'² = ∆x²  + (t₂' − t₁)²
  ∆x²  = ∆x'² − (t₂' − t₂)²

→ ∆x²  < ∆x'²    [all lengths are positive, so: ]

  ∆x   < ∆x' ∎.

    [Yes, the Pythagorean theorem.  Special relativity is that simple.]

> If we would apply a Lorentz transform to a large piece of space, the 3d 
> version off length contraction would look like a black hole.

No, it would not.  Black holes are a consequence of GENERAL relativity,
where spacetime is CURVED in the presence of (non-zero) energy–momentum density.

> [more nonsense]

Your posting this in rec.arts.sf.written was appropriate because it is
PURE FICTION.  (Your amok-crossposting was inappropriate.)

Pass Physics 101 first.

F’up2 sci.physics.relativity

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#300599

On Wednesday, July 25, 2018 at 11:56:50 PM UTC-7, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> On 7/25/2018 1:31 PM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> > Am 25.07.2018 um 01:52 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> > 
> >>>> <sci-fi>
> >>>> I have always had a little feeling that the big bang might be 
> >>>> nothing more than a local hyper massive explosion contained within a 
> >>>> much larger universe. Perhaps a cluster of ultra massive black holes 
> >>>> all finally merged together. Wrt a larger universe, the big bang 
> >>>> could be a single pixel in the following rendering:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17379
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.fractalforums.com/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=17386
> >>>> (a zoom...)
> >>>>
> >>>> </sci-fi>
> >>>
> >>> Nice pictures!
> >>
> >> Thank you. :^)
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I think, the universe is actually a very large fractal and our little 
> >>> world is nothing but a 'chapter' in a much larger story.
> >>
> >> Think of a fractal where branching points are the result of a shi% 
> >> load of hyper massive black holes finally merging together into a 
> >> single, crazy massive black hole. Well, think if each branch in the 
> >> following online 2d vector field simulation of mine was a universe, 
> >> contained within a black hole centered at the point of bifurcation:
> >>
> >> http://funwithfractals.atspace.cc/ct_fdla_anime_dynamic_test/
> >>
> >> Now, if this works for you, one can click on a point to dynamically 
> >> create a new attracting point. Let it run for a couple of minutes, 
> >> then click a couple of points within the parametric square.
> >>
> >> Fwiw, I am working on an interactive OpenGL 3d version.
> > 
> > 
> > Fractals require complex numbers (in '4D') and the universe could 
> > possibly be based on something similar to quaternions or bi-quaternions 
> > (complex four vectors).
> 
> This fractal uses 2d vectors
> 
> http://funwithfractals.atspace.cc/ct_fdla_anime_dynamic_test/ just uses 2d
> 
> with the following main generating function:
> 
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sci.math/L2nRCOyN45E/discussion
> (read all...)
> 
> http://funwithfractals.atspace.cc/ct_fdla_anime_dynamic_test/test_formula.html
> 
> 
> > 
> > I'm actually following this idea and it looks quite promising.
> > 
> > (btw - you may have look at my 'book' here:
> > 
> > https://docs.google.com/present/view?id=dd8jz2tx_3gfzvqgd6  )
> 
> Will do. Thanks.
> 
> > 
> > 
> >>> To understand the idea of big bang, you need to think about the 
> >>> underlying axioms of big-bang theory (which are - of course - wrong).
> >>>
> >>> Big-bang is based on a single universal time-line, that starts at the 
> >>> event called big-bang and ends (for instance) here.#
> >>>
> >>> This cannot possibly be true. One reason: the universe does not look 
> >>> like an expanding two-dimensional sphere.
> >>>
> >>> Better solution: there are multiple timelines possible and to any 
> >>> such 'axis of time' belongs a different 'time domaine' which has its 
> >>> own space.
> >>>
> >>> Such a space could pop out of nowhere and subsequently build a new 
> >>> 'universe'. But that 'universe' is just a local impression and not 
> >>> universal at all.
> >>
> >> Imvvvvho, it did not pop out of "nowhere". I just have a strange 
> >> feeling that it was, perhaps never created at all! It was always 
> >> there, will continue to be, and will never pass away. Humm... Not sure 
> >> at all! I just have a little feeling.
> > 
> > https://www.amazon.de/Zero-Infinity-Foundations-Physics-Everything/dp/9812709142 
> > 
> > 
> > The theory of Prof. Peter Rowlands was, that nothing could actually 
> > split into opposite directions. The one side could add to the other to 
> > nothing again, if these sides would ever combine to again (what 
> > apparently does not happen).
> > 
> > That would be a creation out of nothing.
> 
> Where did the matter come from? What state was it in before the "big-bang"?

QM came first.All the building particles were getting in place to start the macro realm.BB was its blue print.The great force of gravity  took all there was and made it all that is real. We life in a world of reality.G=EMC^2 gives an equation to this truth. Bert

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#300602

"Herbert Glazier" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> wrote
"G=EMC^2 gives an equation to this truth" since it is short
for "Glazier Exhibits Micro Cephalic Cretinism" O ya. Bert

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#300940 — Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

> > creation out of nothing.
> 
> Where did the matter come from? 
> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?

Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy" 
( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).

Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.

Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.

Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us 
that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
-- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
   is the most likley outcome.

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#300941 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
>>> creation out of nothing.
>>
>> Where did the matter come from?
>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> 
> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> 
> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> 
> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> 
> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
>     is the most likley outcome.
> 

Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a 
black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg 
problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from? 
Was there ever a true beginning, or first hyper massive star that went 
ultra, hyper nova? If so, what the heck created it, and what created the 
intelligence of the thing that created in the first place?

Was GOD every truly alone?

Argh!

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#300942 — Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Chris asked:
> Where did the first black hole originate from? 

Exergy is always diminishing ( i.e. entropy is increasing );
whether we think it's a lot or little is a matter of opinion.

> Was there ever a true beginning, or first hyper massive 
> star that went ultra, hyper nova? 

There's a beginning, and an edge, to "The Known Universe";
outside of that is "the random universe", 
where anything can happen.

> If so, what the heck created it, and what created the 
> intelligence of the thing that created in the first place?

Intrinsically, nothing is random.
Randomness is just ignorance, nothing more, nothing less.

The 4 dimensional TimeScape is static, immutable, eternal;
it is, at once, everything _ and nothing.

We call ourselves "consumers" and the GDP measures our progress.
We're "robot aliens" ( consumption machines ), exploiting a niche,
(poorly) programmed by nature to take the LessBad "option".

> Was GOD every truly alone? Argh!

Mother Nature is God; she is everything and nothing.

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#300960 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> 
> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> >>> creation out of nothing.
> >>
> >> Where did the matter come from?
> >> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> >
> > Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> > At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> > ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> >
> > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> > but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> >
> > Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> >
> > Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> > that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> > -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> >     is the most likley outcome.
> >
> 
> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?


The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang. 

Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.

In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die. 


The Starmaker

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#300962 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >
> > On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> > >>> creation out of nothing.
> > >>
> > >> Where did the matter come from?
> > >> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> > >
> > > Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> > > At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> > > ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> > >
> > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> > > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> > > but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> > >
> > > Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> > >
> > > Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> > > that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> > > -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> > >     is the most likley outcome.
> > >
> >
> > Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> > black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> > problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
> 
> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> 
> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
> 
> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> 
> The Starmaker


I mean...i thought i explained all this already..

the purpose of a black hole is too consume stars and galaxies for the purpose of keeping a balance universe.

In other words, just the right amount of stars.


The Starmaker

I mean, before the big bang there were simply too many stars. 

Too many stars is what caused the big bang.


i even already provided an illustration:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Olber's_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif


during the actual explosion...new laws of physics were created.


for example, before the big bang galaxies didn't exist.

Do you need a list?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#300963 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> >
> > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > >
> > > On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> > > >>> creation out of nothing.
> > > >>
> > > >> Where did the matter come from?
> > > >> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> > > >
> > > > Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> > > > At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> > > > ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> > > >
> > > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> > > > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> > > > but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> > > >
> > > > Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> > > >
> > > > Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> > > > that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> > > > -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> > > >     is the most likley outcome.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> > > black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> > > problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
> >
> > The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> >
> > Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
> >
> > In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> >
> > The Starmaker
> 
> I mean...i thought i explained all this already..
> 
> the purpose of a black hole is too consume stars and galaxies for the purpose of keeping a balance universe.
> 
> In other words, just the right amount of stars.
> 
> The Starmaker
> 
> I mean, before the big bang there were simply too many stars.
> 
> Too many stars is what caused the big bang.
> 
> i even already provided an illustration:
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Olber's_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif
> 
> during the actual explosion...new laws of physics were created.
> 
> for example, before the big bang galaxies didn't exist.
> 
> Do you need a list?




To put it simply, the universe was ...different. 

It used to be different.

And the way it is today is because

it didn't work very well before..

So new laws of physics had to be made.

Before, when the universe was different...stars didn't die.

They didn't burn out.

Which caused a problem..

with so many new stars being born...

it simply ran out of space.

Now, you have plenty of space.



The question is, why is it so hard for yous to understand this?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#301151 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> >
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> > >
> > > Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> > > > >>> creation out of nothing.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Where did the matter come from?
> > > > >> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> > > > >
> > > > > Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> > > > > At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> > > > > ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> > > > >
> > > > > Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> > > > > leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> > > > > but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> > > > > that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> > > > > -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> > > > >     is the most likley outcome.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> > > > black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> > > > problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
> > >
> > > The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> > >
> > > Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
> > >
> > > In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> > >
> > > The Starmaker
> >
> > I mean...i thought i explained all this already..
> >
> > the purpose of a black hole is too consume stars and galaxies for the purpose of keeping a balance universe.
> >
> > In other words, just the right amount of stars.
> >
> > The Starmaker
> >
> > I mean, before the big bang there were simply too many stars.
> >
> > Too many stars is what caused the big bang.
> >
> > i even already provided an illustration:
> > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Olber's_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif
> >
> > during the actual explosion...new laws of physics were created.
> >
> > for example, before the big bang galaxies didn't exist.
> >
> > Do you need a list?
> 
> To put it simply, the universe was ...different.
> 
> It used to be different.
> 
> And the way it is today is because
> 
> it didn't work very well before..
> 
> So new laws of physics had to be made.
> 
> Before, when the universe was different...stars didn't die.
> 
> They didn't burn out.
> 
> Which caused a problem..
> 
> with so many new stars being born...
> 
> it simply ran out of space.
> 
> Now, you have plenty of space.
> 
> The question is, why is it so hard for yous to understand this?



maybe it's because yous are confined to complex systems like math and physics...

whereas I make observations of simplified systems to make predicitions.


Here is a simplified system:

http://pw1.netcom.com/~starmaker/before%20and%20after%20the%20big%20bang/untitled1.jpg


there simply you can observe the before and after the big bang at the sametime.

the red shooting stars is the big bang

the green steady state stars is your window to before the big bang.


There you have it
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starmaker/before%20and%20after%20the%20big%20bang/untitled1.jpg


math and physics woun't help you...observations of simplified systems is the key to the future!



Throw your math and physics books in the garbage can...


The Starmaker

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#301152 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

On 8/28/2018 12:21 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> The Starmaker wrote:
>>
>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>
>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
>>>>>>>> creation out of nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Where did the matter come from?
>>>>>>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
>>>>>> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
>>>>>> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
>>>>>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
>>>>>> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
>>>>>> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
>>>>>> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
>>>>>>      is the most likley outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
>>>>> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
>>>>> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
>>>>
>>>> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
>>>>
>>>> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
[...]

If stars did not die, it seems like it can get a bit crowded? Did a 
bunch of stars, finally explode?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#301153 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 28/08/2018 5:56 PM:
> On 8/28/2018 12:21 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>
>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The Starmaker wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
>>>>>>>>> creation out of nothing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Where did the matter come from?
>>>>>>>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
>>>>>>> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just 
>>>>>>> "eXergy"
>>>>>>> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with 
>>>>>>> entropy,
>>>>>>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
>>>>>>> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) 
>>>>>>> tells us
>>>>>>> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
>>>>>>> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
>>>>>>>      is the most likley outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
>>>>>> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
>>>>>> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate 
>>>>>> from?
>>>>>
>>>>> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't 
>>>>> exist.
>>>>>
>>>>> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> [...]
> 
> If stars did not die, it seems like it can get a bit crowded? Did a 
> bunch of stars, finally explode?
> 
Before The Big Bang, there were no stars ... nor a Universe to get crowded!!

-- 
Daniel

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#301167 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Daniel60 wrote:
> 
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote on 28/08/2018 5:56 PM:
> > On 8/28/2018 12:21 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> creation out of nothing.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Where did the matter come from?
> >>>>>>>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> >>>>>>> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just
> >>>>>>> "eXergy"
> >>>>>>> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with
> >>>>>>> entropy,
> >>>>>>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> >>>>>>> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 )
> >>>>>>> tells us
> >>>>>>> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> >>>>>>> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> >>>>>>> Â Â Â Â  is the most likley outcome.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> >>>>>> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> >>>>>> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate
> >>>>>> from?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't
> >>>>> exist.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> > [...]
> >
> > If stars did not die, it seems like it can get a bit crowded? Did a
> > bunch of stars, finally explode?
> >
> Before The Big Bang, there were no stars ... nor a Universe to get crowded!!


then there would be no need for expansion...

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#301166 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> 
> On 8/28/2018 12:21 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > The Starmaker wrote:
> >>
> >> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The Starmaker wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> >>>>>>>> creation out of nothing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Where did the matter come from?
> >>>>>>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> >>>>>> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> >>>>>> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> >>>>>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> >>>>>> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> >>>>>> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> >>>>>> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> >>>>>>      is the most likley outcome.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> >>>>> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> >>>>> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
> >>>>
> >>>> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> >>>>
> >>>> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
> >>>>
> >>>> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> [...]
> 
> If stars did not die, it seems like it can get a bit crowded? Did a
> bunch of stars, finally explode?



.and then there was a big bang.

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#301169 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> >
> > On 8/28/2018 12:21 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > > The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> The Starmaker wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 8/12/2018 3:59 PM, Jeff-Relf.Me@. wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> creation out of nothing.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Where did the matter come from?
> > >>>>>>> What state was it in before the "big-bang"?
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.
> > >>>>>> At the start, there was "no entropy" ("no time, no space"), just "eXergy"
> > >>>>>> ( a type of energy that can do physical work, force * distance ).
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Eventually, this eXergy will be consumed away, replaced with entropy,
> > >>>>>> leaving us with a uniform heat bath that has all of the energy
> > >>>>>> but none of the eXergy.  Gravity is residual eXergy.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Everything decays, even gravity; hence the arrow of time.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Einstein's Cosmological Constant ( 1.11 * 10^−52 / Meters^2 ) tells us
> > >>>>>> that outer space is growing EXPONENTIALLY, gravity is dying off;
> > >>>>>> -- i.e. the "Heat Death" predicted by Lord Kelvin, 1852,
> > >>>>>>      is the most likley outcome.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Afaict, even my little idea wrt "our universe is contained within a
> > >>>>> black hole,  residing in our parent universe" is a chicken-and-egg
> > >>>>> problem in and of itself. Where did the first black hole originate from?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The first black hole originated from moments After the big bang.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Before the big bang heat death didn't exist, so black holes didn't exist.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In other words, before the big bang stars didn't die.
> > [...]
> >
> > If stars did not die, it seems like it can get a bit crowded? Did a
> > bunch of stars, finally explode?
> 
> .and then there was a big bang.


okay, seems people don't know what caused the big bang..i'll explain.

Observation.

You look up in the universe and you'll see a buch of 'rocks' flying around...

and you'll also see stars.

Now, why are all these rocks flying around? Because...


before the big bang
only stars existed
that never die
and kept being born
and eventually ran
out of space...

but...just before
the stars ran out
of space, they in
their crowded room
began to manufacture
...rocks.
(caused by the over crowding)

and sooo..

now you have an
overcrowding of stars and
rocks...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Olber%27s_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif

then it simply exploded.

for you religious people out there...

'In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.'   earth meaning a material called...rocks. heavens meaning a material called...stars.


Now, for those of yous that need more...details,

Look up the definition of the word 'In
Look up the definition of the word '.. the
Look up the definition of the word  '...beginning'



Now here is a photograph of before and after the big bang...
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starmaker/before%20and%20after%20the%20big%20bang/untitled1.jpg

the red stars is after the big bang..
and the green stars is before the big bang.

Now, actually..there are lots more green stars than pictured, but
it was differcult for me to capture all the crowded green stars.

(it's not very easy to take a picture of...before the big bang)


(i need to find another method...)


something like this but all green
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Olber%27s_Paradox_-_All_Points.gif


then....bang.


The Starmaker



in otherwords..something strange happened that i could not explain..
when i tried to take a picture of 'moments' before the big bang...
the crowded green stars did not develop.


There were trillion of green stars in the picture but it's missing here:
http://pw1.netcom.com/~starmaker/before%20and%20after%20the%20big%20bang/untitled1.jpg


There were so many green stars you could barely see the red shooting stars...


any way, that's what caused the big bang.


How come you girls don't know this stuff?

What do they teach you in skool, 'there was no before?' wat a joke...stupid proffesors teaching at Harvard. (textbooks freaks)


You girls are stuck at the big bang and cannot get pass the wall thrown at you...while i'm
wayyyyyy before the big bang wall trying to figure out where the green stars came from.

i know the answer is somewhere near...Blue.


Hint: When somebody tells you "there was no before"...they are throwing a brick wall at you. Be careful of people who
put up brick walls in front of you.

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#301170 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

The Starmaker wrote:
> okay, seems people don't know what caused the big bang..i'll explain.
> 
> Observation.
> 
> You look up in the universe and you'll see a buch of 'rocks' flying around...
> 
> and you'll also see stars.
> 
> Now, why are all these rocks flying around? Because...
> [“before the Big Bang” and other unscientific fantasies]

The only problem with your idea is that it is not falsifiable, and therefore
not a theory at all, but just a fancy story.

By contrast, the Big Bang theory is an idea that is falsifiable, and it has
not been possible to falsify it yet: its predictions are in accordance with
all observations so far, including “rocks flying around”.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang_theory>

Get an education sometime.

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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#301172 — Re: Entropy converts black holes into SpaceTime.

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
> 
> The Starmaker wrote:
> > okay, seems people don't know what caused the big bang..i'll explain.
> >
> > Observation.
> >
> > You look up in the universe and you'll see a buch of 'rocks' flying around...
> >
> > and you'll also see stars.
> >
> > Now, why are all these rocks flying around? Because...
> > [“before the Big Bang” and other unscientific fantasies]
> 
> The only problem with your idea is that it is not falsifiable, and therefore
> not a theory at all, but just a fancy story.


It's not an idea..or theory..(i don't do theories) This is based on observation and facts.


and i don't know how to write "fancy stories", that's NASA's job.


get a real name like PointedNose...

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