Groups > alt.astronomy > #279260 > unrolled thread

Re: Where is the center of the universe?

Started by	Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
First post	2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
Last post	2015-11-25 12:42 -0800
Articles	20 on this page of 70 — 13 participants

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  Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
                    Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:24 +0000
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 07:13 -0700
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:48 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-21 14:10 -0700
    Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-21 06:43 -0500
      Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 13:45 -0500
        Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-21 12:51 -0600
        Re: There's nothing special about the start of "the big bang". Edward Stansfield <stansfield5REM6@linuxmail.org> - 2015-11-21 14:11 -0500
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-21 20:37 +0000
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-21 21:06 -0800
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 11:43 +0000
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 09:01 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-22 14:59 +0000
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-22 14:02 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-22 16:32 -0600
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-22 07:18 -0700
      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-23 10:51 -0600
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 13:57 -0800
        Re: Where is the center of the universe? dvus <dven1@adelphia.net> - 2015-11-24 17:07 -0500
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 22:48 +0000
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-24 17:01 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 01:20 -0700
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:51 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-03 18:13 -0700
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-24 21:47 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-25 10:32 +0000
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 09:47 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 21:36 -0800
                    Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:22 -0800
                      Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 14:27 -0800
                      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-26 15:39 -0700
                    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-27 00:48 +0000
                      Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-26 17:34 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-12-01 21:52 -0800
                    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-12-02 09:49 -0700
          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 09:59 -0600
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? benj <none@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 11:16 -0500
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-25 11:02 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 18:47 +0100
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:06 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 10:52 -0800
                  Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:04 -0600
                    Re: Where is the center of the universe? Arc Michael <abookoflife@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-25 12:38 -0800
                      Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-25 14:23 -0700
                        Re: Where is the center of the universe? "Notroll2015" <notroll2015@charter.net> - 2015-11-25 15:51 -0600
                          Re: Where is the center of the universe? Saul Levy <saullevy1@cox.net> - 2015-11-29 12:40 -0700
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl> - 2015-11-25 17:50 +0100
            Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 10:01 -0800
              Re: Where is the center of the universe? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-11-25 14:05 -0600
                Re: Where is the center of the universe? The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-11-25 12:42 -0800

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#279260 — Re: Where is the center of the universe?

From	Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-20 17:45 -0600
Subject	Re: Where is the center of the universe?
Message-ID	<SvydnRLtaes8LdLLnZ2dnUU7-KudnZ2d@giganews.com>

> On 2/8/15 3:44 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Where is the center of the universe?
>

   No Center
     http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
     http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html

   Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
     http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
     http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
     http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html

   WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
     http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html

   WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
     http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html


-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#279269

From	The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date	2015-11-20 23:48 -0800
Message-ID	<565021C7.2111@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to	#279260

Sam Wormley wrote:
> 
> > On 2/8/15 3:44 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Where is the center of the universe?
> >
> 
>    No Center
>      http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
>      http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html
> 
>    Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
>      http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
>      http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
>      http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
> 
>    WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
>      http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
> 
>    WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
>      http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html

The center of the universe can be found in a number of ways...

The brightest star in the universe is where the center of the
universe...

Is is exactly in the center of the universe. You can draw a line from
top
to bottom and across and you found the exact center...

only problem is the 'scientific community' haven't discovered it yet.

I give them another thousand years...

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#279270

From	Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 10:27 +0100
Message-ID	<n2pda8$hvk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279269

Dne 21/11/2015 v 08:48 The Starmaker napsal(a):

> 
> The center of the universe can be found in a number of ways...
> 
> 
> The brightest star in the universe is where the center of the
> universe...

Bright star life is very short,
few million years at the best,
and there are many billions of very bright stars.

So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
Then..where ?   :-)
> 
> 
> Is is exactly in the center of the universe. You can draw a line from
> top
> to bottom and across and you found the exact center...

Which directions is the bottom of universe ? :-)

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#279272

From	benj <none@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 05:13 -0500
Message-ID	<DtX3y.63144$NM.53995@fx22.iad>
In reply to	#279270

On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 21/11/2015 v 08:48 The Starmaker napsal(a):
>
>>
>> The center of the universe can be found in a number of ways...
>>
>>
>> The brightest star in the universe is where the center of the
>> universe...
>
> Bright star life is very short,
> few million years at the best,
> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>
> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
> Then..where ?   :-)

Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and 
where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.


>> Is is exactly in the center of the universe. You can draw a line from
>> top
>> to bottom and across and you found the exact center...
>
> Which directions is the bottom of universe ? :-)

Universe has no bottom, Pooter. To have a bottom one would have to know 
which way is "up'. You don't know this.



-- 

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    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#279274

From	Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 12:57 +0100
Message-ID	<n2pm2d$eel$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279272

Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>
>> Bright star life is very short,
>> few million years at the best,
>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>
>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>> Then..where ?   :-)
> 
> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and 
> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.

Dear Booter,
different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
There is no center.

>> Which directions is the bottom of universe ? :-)
> 
> Universe has no bottom, Pooter. To have a bottom one would have to know 
> which way is "up'. You don't know this.

Dear Booter,
I have not said there is.

You have not got, or yuo may pretend you have not got
that my question was raised in ironic context.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

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#279278

From	benj <none@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 13:44 -0500
Message-ID	<nY24y.148148$M%.146483@fx20.iad>
In reply to	#279274

On 11/21/2015 06:57 AM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
>> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>
>>> Bright star life is very short,
>>> few million years at the best,
>>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>>
>>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>>> Then..where ?   :-)
>>
>> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and
>> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.
>
> Dear Booter,
> different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
> There is no center.

And the reference to the actual measurements that prove it is where?

All you are doing is what EVERYONE in "cosmology" does: You are simply 
guessing and then telling everyone what you say is true.

>>> Which directions is the bottom of universe ? :-)
>>
>> Universe has no bottom, Pooter. To have a bottom one would have to know
>> which way is "up'. You don't know this.
>
> Dear Booter,
> I have not said there is.

Correct. I was speaking to the OP, and I got your name in there by 
mistake because we LOVE you!

> You have not got, or yuo may pretend you have not got
> that my question was raised in ironic context.

We love ya, Pooter!

The TRUTH about the "center of the universe being everywhere" is that 
for that to be true, it REQUIRES that one have a multidimensional 
universe! (Unless the center be located in our 3D space and experiment 
shows it is not)  Now science never being one to have a shortage of 
fantasy and doublethink asserts that the center IS "everywhere" but at 
the same time multidimensionality is not true. The key is to never let 
these mutually exclusive ideas touch each other and you will be fine. 
That is termed "DoubleThink" in the jargon of modern life.

All the talk about "infinity" which is a total fantasy is nothing but 
more fantasy. Nothing is "infinite" save human stupidity. We have that 
on excellent authority.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#279283

From	Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Message-ID	<n2qet2$f11$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279278

Dne 21/11/2015 v 19:44 benj napsal(a):
> On 11/21/2015 06:57 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
>>> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bright star life is very short,
>>>> few million years at the best,
>>>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>>>
>>>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>>>> Then..where ?   :-)
>>>
>>> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and
>>> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.
>>
>> Dear Booter,
>> different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
>> There is no center.
> 
> And the reference to the actual measurements that prove it is where?
> 
> All you are doing is what EVERYONE in "cosmology" does: You are simply 
> guessing and then telling everyone what you say is true.

You were guessing the first,
and the guess was wrong even without measuring.. :-)


-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279290

From	benj <none@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 14:17 -0500
Message-ID	<6r34y.96008$TJ2.69995@fx21.iad>
In reply to	#279283

On 11/21/2015 02:01 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 21/11/2015 v 19:44 benj napsal(a):
>> On 11/21/2015 06:57 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>> Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
>>>> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bright star life is very short,
>>>>> few million years at the best,
>>>>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>>>>> Then..where ?   :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and
>>>> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.
>>>
>>> Dear Booter,
>>> different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
>>> There is no center.
>>
>> And the reference to the actual measurements that prove it is where?
>>
>> All you are doing is what EVERYONE in "cosmology" does: You are simply
>> guessing and then telling everyone what you say is true.
>
> You were guessing the first,
> and the guess was wrong even without measuring.. :-)

How can you say I guessed wrong (I DID say EVERYONE...includes me...was 
guessing) if you can't supply the data to show it?



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#279284

From	Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 20:01 +0100
Message-ID	<n2qeuf$f11$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279278

Dne 21/11/2015 v 19:44 benj napsal(a):
> On 11/21/2015 06:57 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>> Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
>>> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Bright star life is very short,
>>>> few million years at the best,
>>>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>>>
>>>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>>>> Then..where ?   :-)
>>>
>>> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and
>>> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.
>>
>> Dear Booter,
>> different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
>> There is no center.
> 
> And the reference to the actual measurements that prove it is where?
> 
> All you are doing is what EVERYONE in "cosmology" does: You are simply 
> guessing and then telling everyone what you say is true.
> 
You were guessing the first, and it was a wrong guess.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

Knowledge makes great men humble, but small men arrogant.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279292

From	benj <none@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 14:22 -0500
Message-ID	<Zv34y.129271$4M.5053@fx17.iad>
In reply to	#279284

On 11/21/2015 02:01 PM, Poutnik wrote:
> Dne 21/11/2015 v 19:44 benj napsal(a):
>> On 11/21/2015 06:57 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>> Dne 21/11/2015 v 11:13 benj napsal(a):
>>>> On 11/21/2015 04:27 AM, Poutnik wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Bright star life is very short,
>>>>> few million years at the best,
>>>>> and there are many billions of very bright stars.
>>>>>
>>>>> So the centre is here... No - here..  No - here.  .....
>>>>> Then..where ?   :-)
>>>>
>>>> Pooter, just choose two points. Construct normals to those points and
>>>> where those lines cross is the center of the universe. Simple geometry.
>>>
>>> Dear Booter,
>>> different points will provide different centers, if ever any.
>>> There is no center.
>>
>> And the reference to the actual measurements that prove it is where?
>>
>> All you are doing is what EVERYONE in "cosmology" does: You are simply
>> guessing and then telling everyone what you say is true.
>>
> You were guessing the first, and it was a wrong guess.

Being "wrong" has no basis in fact. It is merely you making a guess and 
telling everyone that your guess is "true". Where is the data. Hell, 
Pooter, where is your THEORY? Show how it's possible for your universe 
guess to have no center. You are NOT allowed to invoke "infinity" or any 
other mathematical fantasy. Those are not real! They do NOT exist.

Now imagine this: The universe is an immense sphere. Where is the center 
of that "universe"? If you look for the "center" anywhere on the surface 
of the sphere you come up empty. That is because the center is not 
located in your space! Get it? No "infinity" required.





-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279275

From	Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 08:05 -0600
Message-ID	<ba6dnY6kIuSI583LnZ2dnUU7-fOdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#279269

On 11/21/15 1:48 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Sam Wormley wrote:
>>
>>     No Center
>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html
>>
>>     Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
>>
>>     WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
>>       http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
>>
>>     WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
>>       http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
>
> The center of the universe can be found in a number of ways...


   Such as?



-- 

sci.physics is an unmoderated newsgroup dedicated
to the discussion of physics, news from the physics
community, and physics-related social issues.

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#279281

From	benj <none@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-21 13:48 -0500
Message-ID	<o034y.186323$1Z.161338@fx01.iad>
In reply to	#279275

On 11/21/2015 09:05 AM, Sam Wormley wrote:
> On 11/21/15 1:48 AM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Sam Wormley wrote:
>>>
>>>     No Center
>>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/nocenter.html
>>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/infpoint.html
>>>
>>>     Also see Ned Wright's Cosmology Tutorial
>>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm
>>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmology_faq.html
>>>       http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/CosmoCalc.html
>>>
>>>     WMAP: Foundations of the Big Bang theory
>>>       http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni.html
>>>
>>>     WMAP: Tests of Big Bang Cosmology
>>>       http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest.html
>>
>> The center of the universe can be found in a number of ways...
>
>
>    Such as?

Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where 
they cross is the center. QED.

Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe 
has no center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 
(Sam thinks space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making 
it 4) These two ideas are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem 
with that. You just never think about both of them at the same time. 
Even better, don't think at all.

-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279348

From	Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net>
Date	2015-11-23 10:21 -0600
Message-ID	<LoqdneKaOcCGoM7LnZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to	#279281

On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> is the center.

You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that 
"normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A 
SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line") 
also depends on which point of the surface is used.

What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what 
make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?

	You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
	your mind.

> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.

You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no 
means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance 
about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.

The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant 
details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models 
the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.

Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR 
inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we 
inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for 
the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models 
are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).

	Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
	is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
	implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
	the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
	mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.

	IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
	argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
	downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.

Tom Roberts

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279350

From	Maciej Woźniak <mlwozniak@wp.pl>
Date	2015-11-23 17:34 +0100
Message-ID	<n2vf63$ptg$1@node2.news.atman.pl>
In reply to	#279348


Użytkownik "Tom Roberts"  napisał w wiadomości grup 
dyskusyjnych:LoqdneKaOcCGoM7LnZ2dnUU7_8ydnZ2d@giganews.com...


|Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
|inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
|inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today 
for
|the domains of the world in which they are valid.

A bullshit, and even morons like you only pretend to use them, while for
real use you have opposite assumptions.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279361

From	The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date	2015-11-23 11:31 -0800
Message-ID	<565369A8.3781@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to	#279348

Tom Roberts wrote:
> 
> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> > Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> > is the center.
> 
> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> 
> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> 
>         You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
>         your mind.
> 
> > Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> > center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> > space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> > are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> > think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> 
> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> 
> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> 
> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> 
>         Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
>         is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
>         implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
>         the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
>         mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> 
>         IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
>         argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
>         downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> 
> Tom Roberts


When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.

Then you draw another line straight across...(of course
if you measure the length of the first line and divide
the number by 2, you know where the middle is at already)

When you draw the second line across, you now have
two lines and four parts. 

The first three parts are the 3 dimensions...
the fourth part is the fourth dimension.

The center is the point where all the 4 dimensions meet....the center of
the universe.

That is as simple as I can explain it.

The Starmaker

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#279370

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-23 15:54 -0500
Message-ID	<n2vu98$c8l$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279361

On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>
>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
>>> is the center.
>>
>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
>>
>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
>>
>>          You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
>>          your mind.
>>
>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
>>
>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
>>
>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
>>
>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
>>
>>          Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
>>          is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
>>          implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
>>          the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
>>          mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
>>
>>          IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
>>          argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
>>          downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
>>
>> Tom Roberts
>
>
> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.

If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do 
you see?

-- 

Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279375

From	The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date	2015-11-23 13:43 -0800
Message-ID	<56538893.2ABC@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to	#279370

rickman wrote:
> 
> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> >>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> >>> is the center.
> >>
> >> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> >> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> >> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> >> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> >>
> >> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> >> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> >>
> >>          You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
> >>          your mind.
> >>
> >>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> >>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> >>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> >>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> >>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> >>
> >> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> >> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> >> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> >>
> >> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> >> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> >> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> >>
> >> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> >> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> >> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> >> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> >> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> >>
> >>          Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
> >>          is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
> >>          implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
> >>          the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
> >>          mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> >>
> >>          IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
> >>          argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
> >>          downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> >>
> >> Tom Roberts
> >
> >
> > When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> > to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
> 
> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> you see?
> 
> --
> 
> Rick


You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
able to see the top of the universe.

When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
universe...the whole universe, or
if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
from the top of the universe to the
bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
on the drawing board.

If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
blinds..

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279376

From	rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>
Date	2015-11-23 16:49 -0500
Message-ID	<n301hc$plc$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to	#279375

On 11/23/2015 4:43 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> rickman wrote:
>>
>> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
>>>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
>>>>> is the center.
>>>>
>>>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
>>>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
>>>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
>>>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
>>>>
>>>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
>>>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
>>>>
>>>>           You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
>>>>           your mind.
>>>>
>>>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
>>>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
>>>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
>>>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
>>>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
>>>>
>>>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
>>>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
>>>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
>>>>
>>>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
>>>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
>>>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
>>>>
>>>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
>>>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
>>>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
>>>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
>>>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
>>>>
>>>>           Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
>>>>           is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
>>>>           implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
>>>>           the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
>>>>           mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
>>>>
>>>>           IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
>>>>           argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
>>>>           downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
>>>>
>>>> Tom Roberts
>>>
>>>
>>> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
>>> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
>>
>> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
>> you see?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Rick
>
>
> You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
> able to see the top of the universe.
>
> When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
> universe...the whole universe, or
> if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
> from the top of the universe to the
> bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
> on the drawing board.
>
> If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
> blinds..

Your universe is rather smaller than the one I know.  I guess it has 
different rules.

-- 

Rick

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279380

From	The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com>
Date	2015-11-23 16:17 -0800
Message-ID	<5653AC96.4FB@ix.netcom.com>
In reply to	#279376

rickman wrote:
> 
> On 11/23/2015 4:43 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> > rickman wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
> >>> Tom Roberts wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
> >>>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where they cross
> >>>>> is the center.
> >>>>
> >>>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand that
> >>>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal" applies TO A
> >>>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal vector ("line")
> >>>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
> >>>>
> >>>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention it, and what
> >>>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
> >>>>
> >>>>           You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
> >>>>           your mind.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the universe has no
> >>>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam thinks
> >>>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4) These two ideas
> >>>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You just never
> >>>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think at all.
> >>>>
> >>>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is by no
> >>>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal ignorance
> >>>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about other people.
> >>>>
> >>>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the relevant
> >>>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe", and models
> >>>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
> >>>>
> >>>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real" (YOUR
> >>>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the world we
> >>>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have today for
> >>>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream cosmological models
> >>>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
> >>>>
> >>>>           Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
> >>>>           is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
> >>>>           implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
> >>>>           the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
> >>>>           mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
> >>>>
> >>>>           IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
> >>>>           argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
> >>>>           downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom Roberts
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
> >>> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
> >>
> >> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> >> you see?
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Rick
> >
> >
> > You may need to understand my perpective of the universe...and how I am
> > able to see the top of the universe.
> >
> > When I am standing not at the top of the universe, but *on* top of the
> > universe...the whole universe, or
> > if I place the whole universe on my drawing board...then I draw a line
> > from the top of the universe to the
> > bottom of the universe. My view of the universe is like a sheet of paper
> > on the drawing board.
> >
> > If I look up...I see a ceiling. If I look to the right I see venetian
> > blinds..
> 
> Your universe is rather smaller than the one I know.  I guess it has
> different rules.
> 
> --
> 
> Rick



How big are photos and illustrations you see from others at NASA or from others in the 'scientific community'? Couldn't be bigger
than an 8x11.5 sheet of paper.

I see photos and illustrations in their books....their size is much smaller than mine.


Do I need to get a bigger drawing board??? 


Or I can take a picture with a camera....but I don't know the largest size I can print at Shutterfly.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#279401

From	dvus <dven1@adelphia.net>
Date	2015-11-24 16:52 -0500
Message-ID	<dbk4gaF2i0pU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#279370

On 11/23/2015 3:54 PM, rickman wrote:
> On 11/23/2015 2:31 PM, The Starmaker wrote:
>> Tom Roberts wrote:
>>>
>>> On 11/21/15 11/21/15 - 12:48 PM, benj wrote:
>>>> Draw two normal lines to two separated points in our universe. Where
>>>> they cross
>>>> is the center.
>>>
>>> You have claimed this several times. Apparently you don't understand
>>> that
>>> "normal to a point" has no meaning. In 3-D the concept "normal"
>>> applies TO A
>>> SURFACE, not to a point (or to a volume); in general the normal
>>> vector ("line")
>>> also depends on which point of the surface is used.
>>>
>>> What surface do you have in mind, why didn't you bother to mention
>>> it, and what
>>> make you think that the two lines will actually "cross"?
>>>
>>>          You seem to have an excessively naive notion of geometry in
>>>          your mind.
>>>
>>>> Sam represents the current idiocy of this theory. He says the
>>>> universe has no
>>>> center. but also the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3 (Sam
>>>> thinks
>>>> space-time is real so he calls time a dimension too making it 4)
>>>> These two ideas
>>>> are totally mutually exclusive. Sam has no problem with that. You
>>>> just never
>>>> think about both of them at the same time. Even better, don't think
>>>> at all.
>>>
>>> You take issue with "Sam" without knowing the actual situation. He is
>>> by no
>>> means alone, and your claims here are simply due to your personal
>>> ignorance
>>> about basic geometry, about current cosmological models, and about
>>> other people.
>>>
>>> The best current cosmological model reproduces essentially all of the
>>> relevant
>>> details of the cosmos we observe. It has no "center of the universe",
>>> and models
>>> the geometry of the universe as a 4-dimensional spacetime manifold.
>>>
>>> Neither Sam nor cosmological models consider spacetime to be "real"
>>> (YOUR
>>> inappropriate word). Rather, spacetime is part of a MODEL of the
>>> world we
>>> inhabit; models based on it, SR and GR, are the best models we have
>>> today for
>>> the domains of the world in which they are valid. Mainstream
>>> cosmological models
>>> are based on GR (specifically the FLRW manifolds).
>>>
>>>          Your claim "the universe is not multidimensional beyond 3"
>>>          is confusing model and world -- that's invalid. You are
>>>          implicitly ASSUMING some unspecified cosmological model, and
>>>          the odds are incredibly high that it is not as good as the
>>>          mainstream cosmological models you take issue with.
>>>
>>>          IOW: arguing from ignorance is never a good plan. Basing your
>>>          argument on an unacknowledged and unspecified model is
>>>          downright silly. You don't even realize you are doing this.
>>>
>>> Tom Roberts
>>
>>
>> When you draw a line from the top of the universe..
>> to the bottom of the universe..that's one straight line.
>
> If you are standing at the top of the universe and you look up, what do
> you see?

If you were a member of an ancient civilization living on a planet 
located in the oldest galaxy in the Cosmos did you have a better view of 
the "edge" of the Universe?

-- 
dvus

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Re: Where is the center of the universe?

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#279260 — Re: Where is the center of the universe?

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