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Re: I've been removed from the Python team

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On jeu. 01 oct. 2015 à 18:48:08, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Thursday, October 01, 2015 02:11:29 PM Barry Warsaw wrote:
> > On Oct 01, 2015, at 07:47 PM, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > >I am a bit worried that the team is handled behind closed walls.
> > 
> > I have no particular interest in either grabbing power nor in taking power
> > away from anybody, but I think there may be some value in making team
> > governance more transparent and democratic.  Two reasons come to mind:
> > 
> > No one person has to take the heat for uncomfortable decisions.  At some
> > point decisions have to be made for the good of the team, whether they're
> > technical or social.  What might be difficult for one person to decide can
> > be made easier when the burden of that decision can be shared among duly
> > elected representatives.
> > 
> > Team members can have more of a say --and more confidence in-- how the team
> > is run.  If you elect someone to a leadership role, you're giving your
> > support to them to make the tough decisions.  And you have the option of
> > voting them out at the next election.
> > 
> > I don't think any of that's controversial, given that the Debian project
> > itself is both transparent and democratic, and we always have those
> > governance rules to fall back on.  But that's a pretty heavyweight
> > bureaucracy.
> > 
> > Does it make sense to have some lightweight rules for the team?  Is there
> > precedence within other Debian teams?
> 
> I've been a team member since, I think, 2008.  This is the first time we've had 
> anything like this come up that I recall.  I don't think we have a problem 
> with team members not having enough say as a general rule.
> 
> For the git migration, the people taking the time to do the work or pay 
> attention to the work and provide feedback are driving what happens when.  
> There's nothing that being a team administrator has to do with it.
> 
> With the exception of the DPL, Debian is not democratic.  It's doacratic.  
> Let's not mess with that.

I frankly disagree. GR is another example of democratic process in Debian.

Yes, do-it-o-craty is good, at some point, but this is exactly what brought
Thomas out. So nope, it's not enough.

I'm not a team member, but I think any team has to get some democratic
process inside it if you want it to be fair and efficient, even in hard
situations.

Cheers.

-- 
PEB

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Thread

I've been removed from the Python team Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 21:50 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 21:50 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 22:40 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 23:20 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 00:10 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 00:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-01 01:10 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Ian Cordasco <graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 00:50 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 01:20 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 08:20 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 14:10 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 19:50 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:20 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:40 +0200
      admins elections Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:50 +0200
        Re: admins elections Dimitri John Ledkov <xnox@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 23:50 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 00:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:20 +0200
          Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 14:50 +0200
            Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 14:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-03 15:40 +0200
          Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-03 16:20 +0200
            Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-03 16:50 +0200

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