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Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #7389

Re: I've been removed from the Python team

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On September 30, 2015 6:43:09 PM EDT, "Pierre-Elliott Bécue" <becue@crans.org> wrote:
>Le 1 octobre 2015 00:25:55 GMT+02:00, Ian Cordasco
><graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> a écrit :
>>On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Pierre-Elliott Bécue
><becue@crans.org>
>>wrote:
>>> On mer. 30 sept. 2015 à 23:13:26, Piotr Ożarowski wrote:
>>>> [Thomas Goirand, 2015-09-30]
>>>> > Piotr decided to remove me from the Python team.
>>>>
>>>> DPMT and PAPT to be precise, yes
>>>>
>>>> > is an over reaction and that it should be reverted.
>>>>
>>>> I talked with you many times in private about your involvement in
>>the
>>>> teams over last ~3 years and since I kind of forced other admins
>>into
>>>> accepting you, I also take all the blame for removing you.
>>>> As I said in the private mail earlier today, if you still want to
>>work
>>>> with me, I'm happy to review / sponsor your commits in DPMT or help
>>with
>>>> any problems you might have with tools I wrote.
>>>
>>> Dear Piotr,
>>>
>>> Even if I'm not in the team and thus I do not decide of anything, I
>>> wonder if that's an appropriate answer, regarding the initial
>>trouble.
>>>
>>> We are currently talking about preventing Thomas to maintain his
>>> packages that has DPMT as maintainer, because he uploaded something
>>in
>>> experimental, which is neither a release, nor a distro of any kind.
>>>
>>> Considering the potential trouble it'll lead to (as for an example
>>it'll
>>> probably send my attempt to package mailman3 to nowhere), and the
>>> potential bad consequences for python team (some packages no longer
>>> maintained, etc), does it worth it?
>>>
>>> --
>>> PEB
>>
>>Pierre,
>>
>>I'm new to the team, mailing list, etc. (honestly, I never had a
>>chance to formally introduce myself to everyone) but it looks as if
>>Piotr has had several instances in the past where he's had to
>>discipline Thomas. I doubt this is an action that Piotr took lightly.
>>Further, I doubt those packages will suddenly go unmaintained.
>>
>>Please continue working on mailman3, it will benefit the community far
>>more than the outcome of this apparent disciplinary action.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ian
>
>Dear Ian,
>
>I do not intend to stop working on it, but even if it is not the first
>time (I hope no one would take such an action for one isolated
>mistake), I strongly beleive that such removal from a team where mostly
>anyone is supposed to be at a same level should be calmly discussed and
>debated with mostly everybody of the team in order to reach a
>consensus.
>
>This decision looks like something decided just after an aggressive
>discussion about something which does not look that bad from where I
>sit.
>
>Wouldn't taking some time to think before this removal had been a
>better idea for everybody?

Not really.  Speaking as one of the team's other admins (even though p1otr has taken this all on himself), I fully support the action.

I agree it's unfortunate that it came to this, but I believe that, for now, it's for the best.  

If we're going to work as a team, then there has to be collaboration and a willingness to work within team norms.  Don't just judge this one case.  I believe it's best if Thomas takes a break from the team.  If he's ever going to be a part of it in the future, he's going to have to be more collaborative.

I'm not going to get in a long debate, but there comes a time in any volunteer group when you have to decide to cut your losses.

Hopefully we get this sorted after a short break from the team.

Scott K

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Thread

I've been removed from the Python team Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 21:50 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 21:50 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 22:40 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-09-30 23:20 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 00:10 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 00:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-01 01:10 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Ian Cordasco <graffatcolmingov@gmail.com> - 2015-10-01 00:50 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 01:20 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 08:20 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-01 14:10 +0200
  Re: I've been removed from the Python team Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 19:50 +0200
    Re: I've been removed from the Python team Barry Warsaw <barry@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:20 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Sandro Tosi <morph@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:40 +0200
      admins elections Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 20:50 +0200
        Re: admins elections Dimitri John Ledkov <xnox@debian.org> - 2015-10-01 23:50 +0200
      Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 00:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 10:20 +0200
          Re: I've been removed from the Python team Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2015-10-02 14:50 +0200
            Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-02 14:50 +0200
        Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-03 15:40 +0200
          Re: I've been removed from the Python team Piotr Ożarowski <piotr@debian.org> - 2015-10-03 16:20 +0200
            Re: I've been removed from the Python team Pierre-Elliott Bécue <becue@crans.org> - 2015-10-03 16:50 +0200

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