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Groups > comp.lang.python > #20296
| From | Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> |
|---|---|
| Subject | Re: Python usage numbers |
| Date | 2012-02-12 17:07 -0500 |
| References | (3 earlier) <mailman.5711.1329010113.27778.python-list@python.org> <4f37229b$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <f610859f-3aa3-4c84-a737-40791a217ef1@m5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> <mailman.5715.1329021524.27778.python-list@python.org> <roy-98B81C.10130712022012@news.panix.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.5738.1329084478.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
On 2/12/2012 10:13 AM, Roy Smith wrote: > Exactly.<soapbox class="wise-old-geezer">. ASCII was so successful > at becoming a universal standard which lasted for decades, I think you are overstating the universality and length. I used a machine in the 1970s with 60-bit words that could be interpreted as 10 6-bit characters. IBM used EBCDIC at least into the 1980s. The UCLA machine I used had a translator for ascii terminals that connected by modems. I remember discussing the translation table with the man in charge of it. Dedicated wordprocessing machines of the 70s and 80s *had* to use something other than plain ascii, as it is inadequate for business text, as opposed to pure computation and labeled number tables. Whether they used extended ascii or something else, I have no idea. Ascii was, however, as far as I know, the universal basis for the new personal computers starting about 1975, and most importantly, for the IBM PC. But even that actually used its version of extended ascii, as did each wordprocessing program. > people who > grew up with it don't realize there was once any other way. Not just > EBCDIC, but also SIXBIT, RAD-50, tilt/rotate, packed card records, > and so on. Transcoding was a way of life, and if you didn't know what > you were starting with and aiming for, it was hopeless. But because of the limitation of ascii on a worldwide, as opposed to American basis, we ended up with 100-200 codings for almost as many character sets. This is because the idea of ascii was applied by each nation or language group individually to their local situation. > Kind of like now where we are again with Unicode.</soapbox> The situation before ascii is like where we ended up *before* unicode. Unicode aims to replace all those byte encoding and character sets with *one* byte encoding for *one* character set, which will be a great simplification. It is the idea of ascii applied on a global rather that local basis. Let me repeat. Unicode and utf-8 is a solution to the mess, not the cause. Perhaps we should have a synonym for utf-8: escii, for Earthian Standard Code for Information Interchange. -- Terry Jan Reedy
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Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:28 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 02:23 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 18:36 -0800
Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 15:38 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 05:51 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:08 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:48 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 11:47 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:11 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:49 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-02-12 15:55 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 08:50 -0800
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:21 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2012-02-12 12:36 -0500
entering unicode (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 19:09 -0800
Re: entering unicode (was Python usage numbers) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-19 03:44 +0000
Re: entering unicode (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 00:52 -0800
How do you Unicode proponents type your non-ASCII characters? (was: Python usage numbers) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 09:43 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:56 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:13 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 17:07 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:22 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 09:14 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:27 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <davea@dejaviewphoto.com> - 2012-02-12 17:40 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 23:29 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 18:41 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 19:03 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:59 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 20:11 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Christian Heimes <lists@cheimes.de> - 2012-02-13 01:00 +0100
Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 21:37 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 22:09 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 22:57 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 15:19 +1100
Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 12:26 -0600
Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 00:00 -0800
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 06:10 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 01:05 -0600
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 09:12 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 05:11 -0600
Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:30 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 17:50 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-02-12 17:58 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 20:48 -0800
Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:03 +1100
OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 08:05 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:01 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 16:12 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:27 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:38 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 13:01 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 08:27 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 21:46 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-14 00:19 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 17:07 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:29 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:13 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 13:13 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 02:39 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 00:28 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 07:02 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:15 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:34 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] random joe <pywin32@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:49 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:14 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-18 04:16 -0500
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-14 19:41 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:21 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 11:44 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 17:26 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-15 19:56 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 07:04 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 15:18 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 08:27 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 17:16 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:46 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:44 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 12:35 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-27 07:50 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 14:32 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-27 07:46 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:47 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 14:46 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:39 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:36 -0700
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 12:37 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:37 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Tim Wintle <tim.wintle@teamrubber.com> - 2012-02-13 16:41 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:40 -0800
RE: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-02-17 20:09 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-14 11:31 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:06 -0500
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:48 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 12:32 +1100
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 09:47 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:58 +0000
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 10:04 +0000
Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-15 10:27 +0000
Re: Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-02-15 11:29 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 04:56 -0800
Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-14 09:37 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:14 +0100
Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:26 +0100
Re: Python usage numbers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 12:11 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-02-12 18:55 +0000
Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 11:52 -0800
French and IDLE on Windows (was Re: Python usage numbers) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 18:30 -0500
Re: Python usage numbers Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2012-02-15 11:56 +0200
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