Groups > comp.lang.python > #20391

Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]

Subject	Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]
From	Tim Wintle <tim.wintle@teamrubber.com>
References	(5 earlier) <f610859f-3aa3-4c84-a737-40791a217ef1@m5g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> <4f3757cc$0$29986$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1c0e800d-1196-4fcd-9eaf-4fd1788f7f74@q12g2000yqg.googlegroups.com> <4f38c44d$0$11112$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <a6d617ab-4d91-472b-bf57-9034874321af@n12g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>
Organization	Team Rubber
Date	2012-02-13 16:41 +0000
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.5795.1329211476.27778.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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(Sorry for top-posting this bit, but I think it's required before the
rest of my response)

At the risk of wading into this from a UK citizen's perspective:

You're imagining a public healthcare system as if it were private.

Imagine you go to a doctor and say "I've got the flu, can you give me
antibiotics".

In a Private healthcare system:

 * The doctor gets paid for retaining a client.
 * He is incentivised to do what you request.
... so he gives you the antibiotics.

In a Public healthcare system:
 * The doctor is paid no matter what.
 * His job is to stop the population becoming ill.
 * By reducing illnesses he reduces his workload, without reducing his
wage

... so he'll only give you antibiotics if he feels you are at serious
risk, and giving you antibiotics carries less risk for the population
than the risk of the population getting immunities.

Same goes for surgery etc.

On Mon, 2012-02-13 at 08:01 -0800, Rick Johnson wrote:
> And just how much healthcare dollars are you entitled to exactly? Can
> you put your entitlement into some form of monetary value?
> 
> And how can we ever make a system like this fair? If someone works for
> 30 years and pays a 30% tax rate and another works for 2 years and
> pays 15%, then how do we delegate the fair share?

If your children are educated privately then should you still be paying
taxes for education?

If you work for/bank with a company that doesn't need to be bailed out,
then should you still pay tax for that?

If you never need benefits (welfare) then should your taxes be paying
for that?

you can use that same argument for everything that taxes pay for - the
only logical conclusion of that argument is anarchy (i.e. no taxes, and
no government).

If you are an anarchist then that's a different argument all together
(not saying it doesn't have intellectual validity).

<snip>

> Healthcare is expensive. Do you want a minimum wage doctor curing your
> ills? And the frivolous lawsuits are not bringing the costs down
> either.

It's so expensive because of the marketing, and because of all the
middle-men.

A public health system doesn't need to do that marketing.

They also don't need to put up with people who aren't seriously ill - I
don't know how long your private appointments are, but here in the UK a
standard doctor's appointment is 5-10 minutes. If they decide you're
actually ill they may extend that.

> > - bosses win, because they have reduced absenteeism, lower training costs
> > to replace workers who die, and fewer epidemics that threaten their own
> > families
> 
> BS! With free healthcare, those who would have allowed their immune
> system fight off the flu, now take off from work, visit a local
> clinic, and get pumped full of antibiotics so they can create a new
> strain of antibiotic resistant flu virus! Thanks free healthcare!

See my comments at the top.

Thread

Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 12:28 +1100
  Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 02:23 +0000
    Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-11 18:36 -0800
      Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 15:38 +1100
        Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 05:51 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 17:08 +1100
          Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:48 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 11:47 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:11 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:49 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers Dan Sommers <dan@tombstonezero.net> - 2012-02-12 15:55 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 08:50 -0800
            Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 12:21 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Nick Dokos <nicholas.dokos@hp.com> - 2012-02-12 12:36 -0500
              entering unicode  (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 19:09 -0800
                Re: entering unicode  (was Python usage numbers) Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-19 03:44 +0000
                Re: entering unicode (was Python usage numbers) rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-19 00:52 -0800
            How do you Unicode proponents type your non-ASCII characters? (was: Python usage numbers) Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 09:43 +1100
            Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:56 +0000
        Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 10:13 -0500
          Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 17:07 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:22 -0500
          Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 09:14 +1100
            Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 17:27 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <davea@dejaviewphoto.com> - 2012-02-12 17:40 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 23:29 +0000
                Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 18:41 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 19:03 -0500
                Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:59 +1100
                Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 20:11 -0500
          Re: Python usage numbers Christian Heimes <lists@cheimes.de> - 2012-02-13 01:00 +0100
          Re: Python usage numbers Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-12 21:37 -0500
          Re: Python usage numbers Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 22:09 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Roy Smith <roy@panix.com> - 2012-02-12 22:57 -0500
              Re: Python usage numbers Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-13 15:19 +1100
                Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 12:26 -0600
            Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 00:00 -0800
      Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 06:10 +0000
        Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 01:05 -0600
          Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 09:12 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers Andrew Berg <bahamutzero8825@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 05:11 -0600
              Re: Python usage numbers Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-12 22:30 +0000
                Re: Python usage numbers Dave Angel <d@davea.name> - 2012-02-12 17:50 -0500
            Re: Python usage numbers Peter Pearson <ppearson@nowhere.invalid> - 2012-02-12 17:58 +0000
        Re: Python usage numbers Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 20:48 -0800
          Re: Python usage numbers Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:03 +1100
          OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 08:05 +0000
            Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:01 -0800
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-13 16:12 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 08:27 -0800
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 11:38 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 13:01 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 08:27 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-13 21:46 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-14 00:19 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 17:07 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:29 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:13 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 13:13 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 02:39 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 00:28 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 07:02 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-18 16:15 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:34 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] random joe <pywin32@gmail.com> - 2012-02-18 10:49 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:14 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-18 04:16 -0500
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-14 19:41 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:21 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 11:44 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 17:26 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] John O'Hagan <research@johnohagan.com> - 2012-02-15 19:56 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 07:04 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 15:18 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 08:27 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-15 17:16 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:46 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-02-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 12:35 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-27 07:50 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-26 14:32 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2012-02-27 07:46 +1100
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:47 +1100
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 14:46 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 16:39 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 18:36 -0700
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 12:37 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-17 17:37 -0800
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Tim Wintle <tim.wintle@teamrubber.com> - 2012-02-13 16:41 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:40 -0800
                RE: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com> - 2012-02-17 20:09 +0000
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-14 11:31 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Devin Jeanpierre <jeanpierreda@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 07:06 -0500
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 16:48 -0800
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 12:32 +1100
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 09:47 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Arnaud Delobelle <arnodel@gmail.com> - 2012-02-15 09:58 +0000
                Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Duncan Booth <duncan.booth@invalid.invalid> - 2012-02-15 10:04 +0000
                Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2012-02-15 10:27 +0000
                Re: Kill files [was Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers]] Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2012-02-15 11:29 -0800
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2012-02-14 04:56 -0800
              Re: OT: Entitlements [was Re: Python usage numbers] Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2012-02-14 09:37 -0500
    Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:14 +0100
      Re: Python usage numbers Matej Cepl <mcepl@redhat.com> - 2012-02-12 09:26 +0100
        Re: Python usage numbers Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-02-12 12:11 +0000
          Re: Python usage numbers alister <alister.ware@ntlworld.com> - 2012-02-12 18:55 +0000
            Re: Python usage numbers jmfauth <wxjmfauth@gmail.com> - 2012-02-12 11:52 -0800
              French and IDLE on Windows  (was Re: Python usage numbers) Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2012-02-12 18:30 -0500
        Re: Python usage numbers Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2012-02-15 11:56 +0200

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