Re: Closures in leu of pointers?

Date	2013-06-29 13:04 -0600
From	Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com>
Subject	Re: Closures in leu of pointers?
References	(1 earlier) <mailman.3984.1372500107.3114.python-list@python.org> <bc798729-f935-448d-9d62-c409b2d12e76@googlegroups.com> <51CEE8E9.4070703@gmail.com> <mailman.4000.1372525392.3114.python-list@python.org> <51cf2cb7$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.4004.1372532699.3114.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 06/29/2013 12:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> You are absolutely correct in principle. But in practice, there are ten 
> bazillion C, Pascal, COBOL, and BASIC programmers who understand the word 
> "variable" to mean a named memory location, for every Smalltalk or Lisp 
> programmer who understands a "variable" as a name binding. So it's pure 
> weight of numbers thing.
> 
> The average Lisp programmer will be completely aware that "variable" can 
> mean various things, and take care to determine what the word means in 
> Python. She will immediately grok what we mean, even if she thinks that 
> the "no variables" part is just an affectation ("Heh, those wacky Python 
> dudes think they don't have variables!") but at least she'll understand 
> the name binding part.
> 
> On the other hand, the average C programmer is barely aware that there 
> are other languages at all, let alone that some of them differ from C in 
> semantics as well as syntax. So by emphasising the differences ("Python 
> has no variables? It has name bindings?") we increase the likelihood that 
> he'll learn the differences in semantics as well as syntax.
> 
> So, in a very practical sense, "Python has no variables, it has name 
> bindings" is completely wrong except in the sense that really matters: 
> Python's variables don't behave identically to C variables.

Very good points.  Thank you.  Good tips for how to better explain
things next time it comes up.  I'll avoid simply saying "Python has no
variables."

Thread

Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 02:34 -0700
  Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 10:42 +0100
  Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2013-06-29 12:01 +0200
    Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 04:21 -0700
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 04:44 -0700
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2013-06-29 14:12 +0200
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 05:26 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-29 15:37 +0100
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 07:48 -0700
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 07:56 -0600
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:36 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 08:02 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-29 19:02 +0200
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 10:33 -0700
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 11:37 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:58 -0600
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:59 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:51 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:04 -0600
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:11 -0700
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:35 -0600
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:19 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Tim Chase <tim@thechases.com> - 2013-06-29 14:42 -0500
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-30 01:41 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 21:02 +0100
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 16:02 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:45 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:00 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 12:20 -0700
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:33 +0000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 12:34 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:47 -0600
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-29 16:53 -0400
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 01:56 -0700
                Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-30 11:22 +0000
                Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 04:42 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 15:21 -0600
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 14:30 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-30 00:32 -0400
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 15:08 +1000
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 00:36 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 23:46 -0600
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 14:57 +1000
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 07:36 +0000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 15:59 +1000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-30 02:11 -0400
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 00:24 -0600
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 16:03 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:23 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 12:07 +0200
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:13 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:18 -0600

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