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Re: Closures in leu of pointers?

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Date Sat, 29 Jun 2013 13:04:51 -0600
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On 06/29/2013 12:51 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote:
> You are absolutely correct in principle. But in practice, there are ten 
> bazillion C, Pascal, COBOL, and BASIC programmers who understand the word 
> "variable" to mean a named memory location, for every Smalltalk or Lisp 
> programmer who understands a "variable" as a name binding. So it's pure 
> weight of numbers thing.
> 
> The average Lisp programmer will be completely aware that "variable" can 
> mean various things, and take care to determine what the word means in 
> Python. She will immediately grok what we mean, even if she thinks that 
> the "no variables" part is just an affectation ("Heh, those wacky Python 
> dudes think they don't have variables!") but at least she'll understand 
> the name binding part.
> 
> On the other hand, the average C programmer is barely aware that there 
> are other languages at all, let alone that some of them differ from C in 
> semantics as well as syntax. So by emphasising the differences ("Python 
> has no variables? It has name bindings?") we increase the likelihood that 
> he'll learn the differences in semantics as well as syntax.
> 
> So, in a very practical sense, "Python has no variables, it has name 
> bindings" is completely wrong except in the sense that really matters: 
> Python's variables don't behave identically to C variables.

Very good points.  Thank you.  Good tips for how to better explain
things next time it comes up.  I'll avoid simply saying "Python has no
variables."

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Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 02:34 -0700
  Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Fábio Santos <fabiosantosart@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 10:42 +0100
  Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2013-06-29 12:01 +0200
    Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 04:21 -0700
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 04:44 -0700
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Peter Otten <__peter__@web.de> - 2013-06-29 14:12 +0200
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 05:26 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-06-29 15:37 +0100
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 07:48 -0700
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 07:56 -0600
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:36 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 08:02 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-29 19:02 +0200
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 10:33 -0700
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 11:37 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:58 -0600
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:59 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:51 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:04 -0600
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:11 -0700
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 12:35 -0600
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:19 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Tim Chase <tim@thechases.com> - 2013-06-29 14:42 -0500
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-30 01:41 +0000
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Joshua Landau <joshua.landau.ws@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 21:02 +0100
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 16:02 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 18:45 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:00 +0000
        Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 12:20 -0700
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-29 19:33 +0000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 12:34 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:47 -0600
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-29 16:53 -0400
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 01:56 -0700
                Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-06-30 11:22 +0000
                Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 04:42 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 15:21 -0600
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com - 2013-06-29 14:30 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-30 00:32 -0400
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 15:08 +1000
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 00:36 -0700
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 23:46 -0600
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2013-07-01 14:57 +1000
              Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-07-01 07:36 +0000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 15:59 +1000
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2013-06-30 02:11 -0400
            Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 00:24 -0600
          Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 16:03 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-29 13:23 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-06-30 12:07 +0200
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:13 -0600
      Re: Closures in leu of pointers? Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2013-06-30 11:18 -0600

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