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Groups > comp.lang.python > #88156
| Date | 2015-03-27 09:48 -0400 |
|---|---|
| From | Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> |
| Subject | Re: Sudoku solver |
| References | (2 earlier) <87fv8sndw1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mf36kv$ko6$1@ger.gmane.org> <CAPTjJmpUxitmFq7tW-LT4JtwPU4cvzgLfDMj1XD_25piJuTmtA@mail.gmail.com> <551557B3.5090102@davea.name> <CAPTjJmoEU2u4nKiC-TWXU=J+yOCTxBya+8kWOjHUPqDsZ4vxTg@mail.gmail.com> |
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.python |
| Message-ID | <mailman.254.1427464161.10327.python-list@python.org> (permalink) |
On 03/27/2015 09:25 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote: >> But now I have to disagree about "true Sudoku puzzle." As we said earlier, >> it might make sense to say that puzzles that cannot be solved that way are >> not reasonable ones to put in a human Sudoku book. But why isn't it a "true >> Sudoku puzzle"? >> >> Isn't the fact that one resorts to trial and error simply a consequence of >> the fact that he/she has run out of ideas for more direct rules and the data >> structures to support them? >> >> The simpler rules can be built around a list of possible values for each >> cell. More complex rules can have a more complex data structure for each >> cell/row/column/box. And when you run out of ideas for all those, you use >> guess and backtrack, where the entire board's state is your data structure. > > At that point, it may make a fine mathematical curiosity, but it's not > really a fun puzzle any more. That's why I addressed my comments at Frank. You and I are already in rough agreement about what makes a human game worthwhile: it has to be easy enough to be solvable, and hard enough to be challenging. Those cutoffs differ from one person to another, and from one age group to another. At one time (50+ years ago) I though Tic-Tac-Toe was tricky enough to be fun, but now it's always a draw, and only playable against a kid. On the other hand, I play some "games" which I can only solve with the aid of a computer. Is that "cheating"? Not for some games. I have some challenges for which I need/prefer to use a wrench, or a screwdriver, or a lawnmower. That doesn't make them less fun, just different fun. But I took Frank's comments as defining the "fine mathematical curiosity," and I have more interest in those than I generally do in "games". Many games that I hear people talking about, I've never even tried. I have a "TV set" which has never been hooked up to an antenna or cable. Only to CD/DVD/BluRay/computer/tablet/cellphone. So I'm a bit strange. I still enjoy riding a motorcycle, walking on the beach, or seeing a sunset from the backyard. -- DaveA
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Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 13:39 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-03-25 11:44 -0700
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 13:05 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 21:37 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 14:09 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 22:31 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:40 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 18:07 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-27 20:04 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:26 +0530
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 21:24 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:58 +0530
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:13 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:15 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 23:10 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Sayth <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 20:39 -0700
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-28 23:50 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 11:12 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 21:59 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:19 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:59 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 14:06 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 15:10 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 21:35 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 21:54 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 13:01 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 16:23 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-29 09:57 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-30 11:54 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 12:25 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:03 +0300
Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 19:26 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:33 +0300
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:11 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 00:50 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-30 09:13 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 01:29 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:16 +0300
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-30 04:16 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 02:57 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 20:13 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:21 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 23:17 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2015-03-29 21:40 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-26 09:50 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-25 23:04 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-27 07:40 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-26 10:19 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:26 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 23:37 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 07:15 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:23 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:06 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:48 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 10:20 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 18:47 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 10:14 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 01:41 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 11:03 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:42 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 22:24 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 02:21 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-26 20:42 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:14 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:25 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-27 15:35 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-27 15:56 +0200
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 10:09 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-27 11:18 -0700
Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:46 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-27 16:48 -0700
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:07 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:19 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-28 14:13 +1300
Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:40 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 02:24 -0600
Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-27 16:03 +0000
Re: Sudoku solver Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2015-03-28 19:36 +0100
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:48 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:52 -0400
Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:58 +1100
Re: Sudoku solver mr.smittye@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 16:39 -0700
Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:24 +0300
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