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Re: Sudoku solver

From Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: Sudoku solver
Date 2015-03-26 14:26 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87fv8sndw1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> (permalink)
References <87r3sdnw5t.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mailman.188.1427358005.10327.python-list@python.org>

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"Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com>:

> Here is another python-based sudoku solver -
>
> http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/PADS/Sudoku.py
>
>>From its docstring -
>
> "A proper Sudoku puzzle must have a unique solution, and it should be
> possible to reach that solution by a sequence of logical deductions
> without trial and error.

I don't think that statement holds water. Trial-and-error is at the
basis of deduction (reductio ad absurdum). The human solver employs it
in their head. The question is, what is the difference between
pen-and-paper and in-your-head for a computer program?

(Question: Are computers good at blindfold chess?)

> To the extent possible, we strive to keep the same ethic in our
> automated solver, by mimicking human rule-based reasoning, rather than
> resorting to brute force backtracking search."

That's cool...

> A neat feature is that, having printed the solution, it then lists
> every step it took in its reasoning process to arrive at the solution.
>
> It solved Marko's original puzzle and Ian's puzzle in less than a
> second. It could not solve Marko's second one, returning "impossible"
> immediately.

... but that realization greatly reduces the value of the solver.

I brought up sudoku solving as a "real-world" example of the usefulness
of exhaustive recursion. The concerns on astronomical execution times
must be considered but at the same time, one should realize things
aren't as bad as they would seem: exhaustion is a practical way to solve
sudoku puzzles and analogous programming challenges.

The compactness of a working sudoku solver should demonstrate something
about (1) the usefulness of recursion and (2) the expressive power of
Python.


Marko

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Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 13:39 +0200
  Re: Sudoku solver John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-03-25 11:44 -0700
    Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 13:05 -0600
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 21:37 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 14:09 -0600
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 22:31 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:40 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 18:07 -0600
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-27 20:04 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:26 +0530
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 21:24 -0600
          Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:58 +0530
            Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:13 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:15 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 23:10 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Sayth <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 20:39 -0700
        Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-28 23:50 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 11:12 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 21:59 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:19 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:59 +0100
          Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 14:06 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 15:10 +1100
              Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 21:35 +1100
                Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 21:54 +1100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 13:01 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 16:23 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-29 09:57 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-30 11:54 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 12:25 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:03 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 19:26 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:33 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:11 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 00:50 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-30 09:13 +0200
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 01:29 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:16 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-30 04:16 -0400
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 02:57 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 20:13 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:21 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 23:17 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2015-03-29 21:40 -0400
  Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-26 09:50 +1100
    Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-25 23:04 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-27 07:40 +0100
  Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-26 10:19 +0200
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:26 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 23:37 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 07:15 -0600
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:23 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:06 -0600
            Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:48 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 10:20 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 18:47 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 10:14 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 01:41 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 11:03 -0400
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:42 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 22:24 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 02:21 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-26 20:42 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:14 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:25 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-27 15:35 +0200
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-27 15:56 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 10:09 -0400
            Re: Sudoku solver sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-27 11:18 -0700
              Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:46 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-27 16:48 -0700
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:07 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:19 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-28 14:13 +1300
            Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:40 +1100
              Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 02:24 -0600
          Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-27 16:03 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2015-03-28 19:36 +0100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:48 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:52 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:58 +1100
  Re: Sudoku solver mr.smittye@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 16:39 -0700
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:24 +0300

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