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Re: Sudoku solver

References (1 earlier) <mailman.188.1427358005.10327.python-list@python.org> <87fv8sndw1.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <mf36kv$ko6$1@ger.gmane.org> <CAPTjJmpUxitmFq7tW-LT4JtwPU4cvzgLfDMj1XD_25piJuTmtA@mail.gmail.com> <551557B3.5090102@davea.name>
Date 2015-03-28 00:25 +1100
Subject Re: Sudoku solver
From Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Message-ID <mailman.249.1427462713.10327.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 12:14 AM, Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> wrote:
> But now I have to disagree about "true Sudoku puzzle."  As we said earlier,
> it might make sense to say that puzzles that cannot be solved that way are
> not reasonable ones to put in a human Sudoku book.  But why isn't it a "true
> Sudoku puzzle"?
>
> Isn't the fact that one resorts to trial and error simply a consequence of
> the fact that he/she has run out of ideas for more direct rules and the data
> structures to support them?
>
> The simpler rules can be built around a list of possible values for each
> cell.  More complex rules can have a more complex data structure for each
> cell/row/column/box.  And when you run out of ideas for all those, you use
> guess and backtrack, where the entire board's state is your data structure.

At that point, it may make a fine mathematical curiosity, but it's not
really a fun puzzle any more. Does "true" mean "playable"? I mean, I
could devise a game in which you point your gun anywhere and shoot,
and you kill someone and score 100 points, and no matter what you do,
you can't die, and the game never ends. No strategy, no challenge. No
goal. Is that a game? Well, it's virtually the same thing as any other
FPS, just with a few simplifications. Is it fun? Not very. So is it a
"true game"?

(This is not purely theoretical, incidentally. I'm currently alpha
testing a new game that I backed on Kickstarter. The Linux version is
built against a different libc than I have, so to make it even run, I
have to jump through some crazy hoops; it's slow, clunky, and not
exactly a fun game... yet. The alpha isn't designed to be
entertaining, it's designed to be a proof-of-concept and to let a
bunch of testers find issues before they go to a wider audience.
Eventually it'll become a fun game, but at the moment, firing it up is
work. Does that mean it's "not a true game" yet? Philosophical
debate!)

ChrisA

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Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 13:39 +0200
  Re: Sudoku solver John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-03-25 11:44 -0700
    Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 13:05 -0600
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 21:37 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 14:09 -0600
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-25 22:31 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:40 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 18:07 -0600
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-27 20:04 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:26 +0530
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-25 21:24 -0600
          Re: Sudoku solver Abhiram R <abhi.darkness@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 08:58 +0530
            Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:13 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:15 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-04-10 23:10 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Sayth <flebber.crue@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 20:39 -0700
        Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-28 23:50 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 11:12 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 21:59 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:19 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:59 +0100
          Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 14:06 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 15:10 +1100
              Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-29 21:35 +1100
                Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-29 21:54 +1100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 13:01 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 16:23 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-29 09:57 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-30 11:54 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 12:25 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:03 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 19:26 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-29 21:33 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 22:11 +0100
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 00:50 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-30 09:13 +0200
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 01:29 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:16 +0300
                Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-30 04:16 -0400
                Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 02:57 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-30 20:13 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-29 22:21 +0100
            Re: Sudoku solver BartC <bc@freeuk.com> - 2015-03-29 23:17 +0100
              Re: Sudoku solver Seymore4Head <Seymore4Head@Hotmail.invalid> - 2015-03-29 21:40 -0400
  Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-26 09:50 +1100
    Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-25 23:04 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2015-03-27 07:40 +0100
  Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-26 10:19 +0200
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 14:26 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 23:37 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 07:15 -0600
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 16:23 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 09:06 -0600
            Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:48 +0200
              Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 10:20 -0600
                Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 18:47 +0200
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 10:14 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 01:41 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-26 11:03 -0400
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-26 17:42 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Pete Forman <petef4+usenet@gmail.com> - 2015-03-26 22:24 +0000
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-27 02:21 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-03-26 20:42 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:14 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:25 +1100
      Re: Sudoku solver "Frank Millman" <frank@chagford.com> - 2015-03-27 15:35 +0200
        Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-27 15:56 +0200
          Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 10:09 -0400
            Re: Sudoku solver sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-03-27 11:18 -0700
              Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:46 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Larry Hudson <orgnut@yahoo.com> - 2015-03-27 16:48 -0700
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:07 +1100
          Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:19 +1100
            Re: Sudoku solver Gregory Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> - 2015-03-28 14:13 +1300
            Re: Sudoku solver Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-03-28 12:40 +1100
              Re: Sudoku solver Ian Kelly <ian.g.kelly@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 02:24 -0600
          Re: Sudoku solver Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-03-27 16:03 +0000
          Re: Sudoku solver Virgil Stokes <vs@it.uu.se> - 2015-03-28 19:36 +0100
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:48 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Dave Angel <davea@davea.name> - 2015-03-27 09:52 -0400
      Re: Sudoku solver Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 00:58 +1100
  Re: Sudoku solver mr.smittye@gmail.com - 2015-03-29 16:39 -0700
    Re: Sudoku solver Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-03-30 12:24 +0300

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