Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python

References	<54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <873873ae91.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <mailman.17933.1421884677.18130.python-list@python.org> <MPG.2f2a5e01b517d4db989682@nntp.aioe.org> <87vbjz8ui7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net>
Date	2015-01-22 12:45 +1100
Subject	Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python
From	Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.17937.1421891140.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> writes:
>> "I want to become a programmer so I can make games" is, on the vast
>> majority of cases, the quote of someone who will never become a
>> programmer. Why should teachers reward that kind of thought?
>
> I don't see what the problem is.  Kids are interested in games and they
> are into playing them, so of course they also want to program them.

It's not a terrible justification for getting into programming. But
writing games is (almost always) a terrible way to start programming.
Either you pick up a super-restrictive "hey look, you can build a game
with just point and click" system, which isn't teaching programming at
all, or you end up getting bogged down in the massive details of what
it takes to write code.

If someone's unfazed by the "it'll take you years before you can
actually write a saleable game" consideration, then getting into
programming via toys (writing Fizz Buzz or a factorial calculator)
will put him/her on a much better footing for actual coding work.

ChrisA

Thread

What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 03:34 +1100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Michiel Overtoom <motoom@xs4all.nl> - 2015-01-21 18:45 +0100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-01-21 12:21 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-07 23:35 +0000
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-21 19:18 +0000
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 09:35 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-21 23:10 +0000
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 02:25 +0200
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-01-21 21:22 -0600
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-22 17:52 +0000
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Anthony Papillion <anthony@cajuntechie.org> - 2015-01-21 17:19 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:41 +1100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-01-21 16:22 -0800
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-21 17:37 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:55 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-23 16:51 -0600
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 08:09 +0000
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 19:16 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 14:09 +0000
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-01-24 06:34 -0500
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 14:14 +0000
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 09:57 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-26 14:18 -0600
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-23 16:51 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 17:08 -0700
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-01-21 21:59 -0500
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 14:08 +1100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski <emil@fuse.pl> - 2015-01-22 05:46 +0100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-02-09 13:28 -0800
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 15:46 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:57 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 01:09 +0100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-01-21 17:00 -0800
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:36 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 17:38 -0800
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:45 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 18:53 -0800
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 13:59 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-07 23:54 +0000
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 11:57 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-08 18:59 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 19:24 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 15:35 +1000
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-01-21 17:44 -0800
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 14:23 +1100
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:34 +1100
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 15:39 +1000
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-01-23 14:58 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 01:16 +0100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 00:45 -0500
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 18:11 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 06:30 +0000
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-01-22 07:26 -0500
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski <emil@fuse.pl> - 2015-01-22 16:47 +0100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:04 +0000

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