Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.021 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.96; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '22,': 0.09; 'vast': 0.09; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '"hey': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; "someone's": 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'code.': 0.18; 'all,': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'programming': 0.22; 'coding': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'paul': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'programming.': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'work.': 0.31; 'getting': 0.31; 'reward': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'actual': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'system,': 0.38; 'massive': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'quote': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'is.': 0.60; 'course': 0.61; 'kind': 0.63; 'pick': 0.64; 'teaching': 0.64; 'become': 0.64; 'details': 0.65; '2015': 0.84; 'buzz': 0.84; 'terrible': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=eCt0pEySqfsr4OObSnwGWWgrYbE7HpnlLkuQUjYIIEk=; b=ZKN1BO04DPzKPA8pGNtpo4GcVrPrwgtYEviONEOQt+Ge0URKOQ35Uqmr6zyWK+HCBM QtXIMau7qncsf0kASO6gL7wBLAYyj+jvomVQK6qS+RRGMlVKyw3LhTMvoWfKBPsW67+D 61WVrerIr91rUTMTrqFTJzGTqVg+zOrjiuBcnr11H+Np0X+7gQv1D3+HgbAxrTXyRw/S bZgLfKV30L+40Iii93D3VFyvKnqDsOD8ekZnFJKLlHWeNIILfAmLIbek/pqZD/c/Utmb f2DpwMrE8CwSORPCOmGDP6+PBKtR+uEbU+qonlHsO167XBfxvB1Sez28MD1YKuBthKwf e4tQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.90.112 with SMTP id w103mr58413567qgd.65.1421891132725; Wed, 21 Jan 2015 17:45:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87vbjz8ui7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> References: <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <873873ae91.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87vbjz8ui7.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2015 12:45:32 +1100 Subject: Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1421891140 news.xs4all.nl 2888 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46681 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:84171 On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Mario Figueiredo writes: >> "I want to become a programmer so I can make games" is, on the vast >> majority of cases, the quote of someone who will never become a >> programmer. Why should teachers reward that kind of thought? > > I don't see what the problem is. Kids are interested in games and they > are into playing them, so of course they also want to program them. It's not a terrible justification for getting into programming. But writing games is (almost always) a terrible way to start programming. Either you pick up a super-restrictive "hey look, you can build a game with just point and click" system, which isn't teaching programming at all, or you end up getting bogged down in the massive details of what it takes to write code. If someone's unfazed by the "it'll take you years before you can actually write a saleable game" consideration, then getting into programming via toys (writing Fizz Buzz or a factorial calculator) will put him/her on a much better footing for actual coding work. ChrisA