Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > comp.lang.python > #84152

Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python

From Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.python
Subject Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python
Date 2015-01-21 23:10 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <m9pbl1$oan$1@reader1.panix.com> (permalink)
References <54bfd513$0$12978$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <m9ou2h$jvj$1@reader1.panix.com> <mailman.17926.1421879748.18130.python-list@python.org>

Show all headers | View raw

On 2015-01-21, Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2015-01-21, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:
>>> In 2009, Robert Martin gave a talk at RailsConf titled "What Killed
>>> Smalltalk Could Kill Ruby".
>>
>> But does he answer the more important question "and can we use it to
>> kill PHP?".
>
> PHP won't die so long as there are people willing to apologize for
> its every flaw and defend it on the basis that huge sites X, Y, and Z
> all use it. But we don't need it to die. All we need is for Python to
> live, and we can ignore PHP and write Unicode-aware web sites with
> simple, trustworthy entry points, and not worry about the rest.

I happily ignored PHP until a couple years back when we decided to use
PHP for the web site on a small embedded Linux system.  The reasoning
was that we didn't have any significant internal web site development
skills, and using PHP on Linux would make it easy to contract out the
web site design using an off-the-shelf light-weight framework.

[At the time, a couple of us could stumble around with HTML enough to
generate web pages that looked fresh out of 1995, but that was about
it. The web pages in our older devices looked rather "retro" and had
pretty limited functionality.]

At a certain point we couldn't afford the contractors any longer and
somebody had to take over maintenance and development of the web
stuff.  The JavaScript and jQuery part of it isn't bad.  Both have had
some thought put into them: they have their quirks but there's a
certain internal consistency and elegence.

PHP, on the other hand makes me want to scream.  It's all just a
random mess -- it's nothing _but_ quirks.  As one of the contractors
once said: PHP is like a combination of all the worst features of
bash, perl, and C.

I briefly considered trying to switch to Python, but the Python
footprint is just too big...

-- 
Grant Edwards               grant.b.edwards        Yow! RELATIVES!!
                                  at               
                              gmail.com

Back to comp.lang.python | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 03:34 +1100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Michiel Overtoom <motoom@xs4all.nl> - 2015-01-21 18:45 +0100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-01-21 12:21 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-07 23:35 +0000
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-21 19:18 +0000
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 09:35 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-21 23:10 +0000
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Marko Rauhamaa <marko@pacujo.net> - 2015-01-22 02:25 +0200
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Chase <python.list@tim.thechases.com> - 2015-01-21 21:22 -0600
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2015-01-22 17:52 +0000
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Anthony Papillion <anthony@cajuntechie.org> - 2015-01-21 17:19 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:41 +1100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python John Ladasky <john_ladasky@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-01-21 16:22 -0800
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-21 17:37 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:55 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-23 16:51 -0600
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 08:09 +0000
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 19:16 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 14:09 +0000
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-01-24 06:34 -0500
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2015-01-24 14:14 +0000
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-24 09:57 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-26 14:18 -0600
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tim Daneliuk <tundra@tundraware.com> - 2015-01-23 16:51 -0600
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 17:08 -0700
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> - 2015-01-21 21:59 -0500
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 14:08 +1100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski <emil@fuse.pl> - 2015-01-22 05:46 +0100
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-02-09 13:28 -0800
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 15:46 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 10:57 +1100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 01:09 +0100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-01-21 17:00 -0800
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:36 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 17:38 -0800
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 12:45 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-01-21 18:53 -0800
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 13:59 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2015-02-07 23:54 +0000
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 11:57 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-02-08 18:59 +1100
                Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-02-08 19:24 +1100
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 15:35 +1000
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 17:07 +1100
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us> - 2015-01-21 17:44 -0800
        Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2015-01-22 14:23 +1100
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 15:34 +1100
          Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python alex23 <wuwei23@gmail.com> - 2015-01-23 15:39 +1000
            Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python sohcahtoa82@gmail.com - 2015-01-23 14:48 -0800
              Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> - 2015-01-23 14:58 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mario Figueiredo <marfig@gmail.com> - 2015-01-22 01:16 +0100
      Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Terry Reedy <tjreedy@udel.edu> - 2015-01-22 00:45 -0500
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Rick Johnson <rantingrickjohnson@gmail.com> - 2015-01-21 18:11 -0800
    Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-01-22 06:30 +0000
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Gene Heskett <gheskett@wdtv.com> - 2015-01-22 07:26 -0500
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Emil Oppeln-Bronikowski <emil@fuse.pl> - 2015-01-22 16:47 +0100
  Re: What killed Smalltalk could kill Python Tony the Tiger <tony@tiger.invalid> - 2015-01-23 18:04 +0000

csiph-web