Re: Cookie fucking problem

Date	2013-10-28 13:08 -0400
From	Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
Subject	Re: Cookie fucking problem
References	(7 earlier) <mailman.1648.1382886360.18130.python-list@python.org> <526e15f2$0$2838$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> <l4lsk3$9oc$3@reader1.panix.com> <CAPTjJmpVskzYxAFkvQuH2xJ5i2zAs2Wh61H7L64=X=CXocbihg@mail.gmail.com> <526E7DCA.9080908@rece.vub.ac.be>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.python
Message-ID	<mailman.1707.1382980135.18130.python-list@python.org> (permalink)

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On 10/28/13 11:07 AM, Antoon Pardon wrote:
> Op 28-10-13 15:38, Chris Angelico schreef:
>> >On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Grant Edwards<invalid@invalid.invalid>  wrote:
>>> >>On 2013-10-28, Steven D'Aprano<steve@pearwood.info>  wrote:
>>> >>
>>>> >>>Chris is not baiting Nikos, he is giving him useful information that
>>>> >>>unfortunately Nikos doesn't want to hear.
>>> >>
>>> >>So he's replying to Nikos with responses that aren't helping Nikos and
>>> >>just encourage more posts from Nikos.  I'm sure the_intent_  is
>>> >>different than Mark's, but unfortunately, the result is identical.
>> >
>> >I still maintain that I'm not*baiting*  him, though.
> I don't care. Maybe you can find some semantical rule, that will
> give your behaviour an other etiket than "baiting", in the end
> the effect on the list is the same, with Nikos feeling entitled
> to insist to get an answer.
>
> And if we want this to be a welcoming community, then we have to
> care about the effects and not about the semantical category. So
> should you want this to be a welcoming community, then you are
> focussing on the wrong point.
>

I agree it is probably best to err on the side of ignoring Nikos. But 
there is a distinction between (say) Chris' response and Mark's.  The 
effect on Nikos is the same, but the effect on other readers, especially 
readers new to the list, is very different.

We've already seen a few new people explicitly asking, "is this what 
usually happens on this list?" and they weren't referring to the 
Chris-style response, they were referring to the Mark-style response.

If we want this to be a welcoming community, we have to understand that 
there are many more readers than there are authors, and the impression 
we make on them matters too.  Responding negatively, no matter how 
humorously, is not going to improve the group.  It might amuse the 
regulars, but it is not building a strong and welcoming community.  I 
also happen to think that responding negatively won't even achieve its 
stated purpose of making the help-vampire go away.

--Ned.

Thread

Cookie fucking problem Nick the Gr33k <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 16:27 +0300
  Re: Cookie fucking problem Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 00:39 +1100
  Re: Cookie fucking problem Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-27 00:40 +1100
  Re: Cookie fucking problem Yaşar Arabacı <yasar11732@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 17:05 +0300
  Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 15:34 +0100
    Re: Cookie fucking problem Nick the Gr33k <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 17:55 +0300
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 16:21 +0100
        Re: Cookie fucking problem Nick the Gr33k <nikos.gr33k@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 18:25 +0300
          Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 16:50 +0100
            Re: Cookie fucking problem rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-26 09:05 -0700
              Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 17:22 +0100
          Re: Cookie fucking problem Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-27 08:43 +1100
          Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-27 14:30 +0100
            Re: Cookie fucking problem Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-28 07:44 +0000
              Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-28 09:10 +0100
              Re: Cookie fucking problem Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-28 14:33 +0000
                Re: Cookie fucking problem Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> - 2013-10-29 01:38 +1100
                Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-28 16:07 +0100
                Re: Cookie fucking problem Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-28 13:08 -0400
                Re: Cookie fucking problem rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-28 10:53 -0700
                Re: Cookie fucking problem Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-28 14:22 -0400
                Being a welcoming place [was Re: Cookie fucking problem] Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-29 05:10 +0000
              Re: Cookie fucking problem rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-28 09:51 -0700
          Re: Cookie fucking problem Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-28 10:26 +1100
            Re: Cookie fucking problem rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 20:44 -0700
            Re: Cookie fucking problem Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-28 13:20 +0000
              Re: Cookie fucking problem Steven D'Aprano <steve@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-29 05:28 +0000
                Re: Cookie fr*cking problem Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu> - 2013-10-29 12:17 +0000
          Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-28 08:13 +0100
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com> - 2013-10-26 12:00 -0400
    Re: Cookie fucking problem Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 16:00 +0000
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 17:19 +0100
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-26 19:18 +0200
        Re: Cookie fucking problem Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2013-10-28 14:38 +0000
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-26 19:23 +0200
      Re: Cookie xxxxing problem Stephan Vladimir Bugaj <sbugaj@pixar.com> - 2013-10-26 12:32 -0700
        Re: Cookie xxxxing problem rusi <rustompmody@gmail.com> - 2013-10-27 08:59 -0700
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-10-26 22:22 +0100
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Ben Finney <ben+python@benfinney.id.au> - 2013-10-27 08:44 +1100
      Re: Cookie fucking problem Antoon Pardon <antoon.pardon@rece.vub.ac.be> - 2013-10-28 11:14 +0100
  Re: Cookie fucking problem Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> - 2013-10-26 16:02 +0000
  Re: Cookie (expletive) problem Zero Piraeus <z@etiol.net> - 2013-10-26 10:49 -0300

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