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Re: Updated crackpot index?

From Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de>
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: Updated crackpot index?
Date 2022-12-28 08:38 +0100
Message-ID <k12a45FgaaoU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <to7nk3$2c5be$1@dont-email.me> <k0qm96FbcbhU1@mid.individual.net> <tocrif$3be9n$1@dont-email.me> <k0vp3tF4fj1U1@mid.individual.net> <togf0q$3sg92$1@dont-email.me>

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Am 28.12.2022 um 05:00 schrieb Volney:
> On 12/27/2022 3:36 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>> Am 26.12.2022 um 20:10 schrieb Volney:
>>> On 12/25/2022 5:17 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>> Am 24.12.2022 um 21:32 schrieb Volney:
>>>>> On 12/24/2022 3:57 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> The claim is more or less, that cults took over science and turned it
>>>>>> away from the scientific method.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then what is produced would not follow the scientific method, yet it
>>>>> still does. Plus the "cult followers" bit is never supported with
>>>>> evidence that such a "takeover" happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I personally think, that such a 'takeover' actually happened.
>>>
>>> Without evidence of that, nobody cares what you think.
>>>>
>>>> For instance I have studies Einstein's 'On the electrodynamics of
>>>> moving bodies' for a very long time in detail. But I found a very
>>>> large number of errors in it (well over 400).
>>>
>>> No, you haven't. As has been repeatedly explained to you.
>>>>
>>>> These errors could not been overlooked by Planck, who was a
>>>> world-class physicist.
>>>
>>> Since there were no such errors, there was nothing for Planck to
>>> overlook.
>>
>>
>> I have discussed now lots of errors (in my view) and the result was
>> always the same:
>>
>> the errors are simply denied, the critique was uttered by a crank (me)
>> and the case is closed.
>
> The "errors" were refuted because all of them that anyone has looked at
> were misunderstandings or errors by yourself, not in the paper.
>>
>> But I can provide something new for you to defend:
>>
>> it is actually a very simple error and belongs to a class called 'non
>> sequitur'. (This means 'it does not follow'.)
>>
>> It is on page 8 in § 3 about 'Theory of the Transformation of
>> Co-ordinates ...'
>>
>> There are two equations in the upper part of page 8, which both
>> describe a certain point (x,y,z) in K coordinates, which was '...just
>> attained by this wave,...'.
>>
>> Now the first equation describes the length of the path of a wave from
>> the origin to that point by kind of '3d-pythagoras':
>>
>> x² +y² +z² = c²*t²
>>
>> That is certainly true and not particularily interesting.
>>
>> The second equation is this
>> ξ² +η² +ζ² = c²* τ²
>>
>> This is the same point in coordinates from k.
>>
>> This is also not very spectacular, even if the coordinate system k is
>> moving
>
> Only moving relative to K. Remember, motion is always relative.
>
>> and the equation does not make any attempt to compensate that movement.
>
> What is there to 'compensate'? Both are equations in inertial frames, K
> and k. Remember the first postulate, the laws of physics are the same in
> all inertial frames. Including K and k.

If you have a certain point ('.. just attained by the wave...') with 
certain coordinates -like e.g.(1,2,3) - in system K and now want the 
coordinates of that point in coordinates based on system k, you need to 
conduct a so called 'coordinate transformation'.

This was actually the topic of §3.

Now I would expect an influence of movement upon the coordinates in the 
equation for the  moving system.

This is required, because the coordinates of the very same physical 
point in coordinates k had to be derived, which have some other 
coordinates in measures of system K, which is regarded as non-moving.

IOW: we have the same wave and the same point, but different 
coordinates, because we have two different coordinate system. and one is 
regarded as stationary and one as moving.

The task is therefore to convert the coordinates of (1,2,3) in K to some 
other coordinates in k.

But that was not, what Einstein had actually done.

Instead he implicitly created a new wave and made that expand in the 
moving system k.

Einstein should have provided a coordinate transformation, but didn't. 
He simply wrote Greek letters instead od Latin ones.

The Greek letters mean coordinates in system k.

But that was already known, because he wanted to derive coordinates in 
k. The interesting part would be to know, WHICH coordinates come out of 
the coordinate transformation.

The exchange of letters was then used as justification of this statement:

"The wave under consideration is therefore no less a spherical  wave 
with velocity of propagation c when viewed in the moving system.  This 
shows that our two fundamental principles are compatible."

But this statement cannot be justified by an exchange of letters.

To make matters worse, the statement is also wrong.

It is wrong, because a spherical wave stationary in system K is no 
longer spherical if seen from a moving position, because of the Doppler 
effect.

...

TH
...


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Thread

Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-08 14:46 -0500
  Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 12:08 -0800
  Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-08 14:14 -0600
  Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 12:16 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-08 21:26 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 14:11 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-08 14:43 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-09 02:56 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 09:07 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 12:19 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Hanoi Cuocco <ouco@ocaoch.ho> - 2022-12-09 21:02 +0000
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 20:28 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 21:19 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 16:18 -0600
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Trolidan7 <Trolidan7@eternal-september.org> - 2022-12-10 14:42 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 17:59 -0600
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 22:57 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-10 16:16 -0600
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Smokey Abbiati <asbk@atmakb.ai> - 2022-12-11 18:21 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-12-11 10:40 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-11 13:44 -0600
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Smokey Abbiati <asbk@atmakb.ai> - 2022-12-11 21:37 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-11 16:07 -0600
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-12 00:13 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Darron Riva <orvd@raria.ar> - 2022-12-12 16:28 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-12 13:41 -0600
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 23:33 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Stephan Russo <ptrp@susnon.sr> - 2022-12-08 20:58 +0000
    Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-08 18:15 -0600
      Re: Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) Hanoi Cuocco <ouco@ocaoch.ho> - 2022-12-09 14:35 +0000
        Re: Note to Volney (was Re: Updated crackpot index?) whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-09 10:59 -0600
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Stephan Russo <ptrp@susnon.sr> - 2022-12-08 21:00 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-09 13:36 -0800
    Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 13:39 -0800
      Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-09 17:47 -0800
        Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 17:52 -0800
        Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 19:17 -0800
          Re: Crank Pat Dolan demands an extra 150 points. And gets them. "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-09 19:26 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-10 18:24 -0500
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 17:07 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 18:41 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-11 22:33 -0500
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-12 04:15 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Darron Riva <orvd@raria.ar> - 2022-12-12 18:43 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-10 13:09 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-10 09:34 -0800
      Crank Pat Dolan comes to grips with the facts "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-10 09:46 -0800
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Lou Abatangelo <lbta@aooutala.nl> - 2022-12-10 23:22 +0000
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-18 14:53 -0500
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-18 12:37 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Vitaliy Bazzoli <zvt@viavzl.oi> - 2022-12-18 20:41 +0000
    Re: Updated crackpot index? "Dono." <eggy20011951@gmail.com> - 2022-12-18 13:10 -0800
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-20 00:35 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? patdolan <patdolan@comcast.net> - 2022-12-19 21:43 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 16:05 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 13:37 -0800
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 14:13 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-22 09:29 +0100
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-23 02:00 -0500
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-22 23:21 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 01:32 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-23 23:15 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-24 09:57 +0100
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-24 15:32 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-24 13:33 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 09:34 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 00:48 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:03 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-30 03:58 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-01 10:10 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-01 03:47 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-02 08:35 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 01:00 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 07:59 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-06 08:18 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-05 23:36 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-09 08:57 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-09 00:08 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Luigi Tumicelli <llei@cumiicli.lu> - 2023-01-09 09:04 +0000
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-25 11:17 +0100
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-25 14:40 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-26 10:23 +0100
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-26 14:10 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-26 12:37 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-27 09:36 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thurman De palma <eaan@phapremr.an> - 2022-12-27 13:57 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-27 23:00 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-28 08:38 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-29 15:25 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Emmet Robustelli <uttl@etlmms.re> - 2022-12-29 21:28 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:41 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-02 11:45 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 08:49 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Richard Hertz <hertz778@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 09:08 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 09:15 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2023-01-03 02:14 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2023-01-02 23:52 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-03 08:27 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 06:12 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 06:23 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-28 08:27 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-29 09:19 +0100
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Ufonaut <ufonaut9@gmail.com> - 2022-12-29 04:51 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-30 12:52 +0100
  Re: Updated crackpot index? Hannu Poropudas <haporopuda@gmail.com> - 2022-12-20 23:32 -0800
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-21 09:24 +0100
      Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:10 -0800
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Paul Alsing <pnalsing@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:25 -0800
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Prokaryotic Capase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 10:40 -0800
            Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-21 12:51 -0600
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Celso Ardizzone <eodo@ceiozi.ci> - 2022-12-21 19:12 +0000
          Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 15:07 -0500
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 20:18 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Jim Pennino <jimp@gonzo.specsol.net> - 2022-12-21 12:41 -0800
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 21:14 +0000
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Volney <volney@invalid.invalid> - 2022-12-21 16:15 -0500
                Re: Updated crackpot index? Michelle Africano <nccr@amenica.he> - 2022-12-21 21:17 +0000
                Re: Updated crackpot index? whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-12-21 16:14 -0600
            Re: Updated crackpot index? Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-12-21 13:10 -0800
              Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2023-01-19 09:38 +0100
        Re: Updated crackpot index? Athel Cornish-Bowden <acornish@imm.cnrs.fr> - 2022-12-21 20:43 +0100
          Re: Updated crackpot index? nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) - 2022-12-21 21:52 +0100
    Re: Updated crackpot index? Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-12-22 09:17 +0100

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