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Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light

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Am 24.07.2022 um 13:15 schrieb whodat:


>> 'Space' is 'relative'.
>>
>> That means:
>>
>> what we call 'space' is actually the set of a points, from which we
>> can see things or events happening there.
>>
>> This set of points is also called 'past light cone'.
>>
>> So: the term 'space' denotes our own past light cone.
>>
>> This space is 'relative', because it depends on the position, from
>> were the observer observes (peeps into space).
>>
>> Now every observer is somewhere, but only one at a time.
>>
>> Therefore, every observer would see a different 'space'.
>
>
>
> This conclusion is flawed. It is not a "different space" but the same
> space as viewed from a different perspective. The balance of your thesis
> has similar flaws not worth addressing individually.
>

When look into 'outer space' we do not see space, but our own past light 
cone.

Now we usually call that image in the night sky 'space', while it 
actually isn't.

What we see there is an image from the past, which is not internally 
consistent, because depth in space is also 'depth' in time.

Usually we ignore this problem and think, the stars we see are real.

Well, that's kind of bad luck, because we cannot see certain problems in 
cosmology, if we adress relations of celestial bodies, which do not 
belong to the same time.

We cannot adress the correct relations, because actually we don't know, 
where these cosmic objects are now.

Now I meant, that even if this picture is flawed, it is used so often 
under the name 'space', that I could allow this use and use it myself.

That 'space' is now unreal, because it is layered in time and shows 
events happening long ago.

But that's actually what we see in the night sky and call it 'space'.



>> Such 'space' cannot have real properties, because it does not exist
>> outside of the observers brain.
>>
>> But something does exist, which has properties and those appear as
>> space and time according to known laws.
>>
>> This something cannot be 'space', but must be real and also
>> 'relativistic'.
>>
>> I took spacetime of GR as real and our observations from a certain
>> perspective as not.
>>
>> Therefore, this real spacetime could serve as an equivalent to
>> 'aether' and can have properties.
>>
>> I have actually written kind of book about this idea several years
>> ago. That can be found here:
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ur3_giuk2l439fxUa8QHX4wTDxBEaM6lOlgVUa0cFU4/edit?usp=sharing
>>


The idea behind my 'book' was: if we cannot use the term 'space' for 
what we see, then what else do we actually see?

My guess:

there exists something, which appears as space and time from different 
perspectives.

A view from somewhere is then something like a 'cut', which ascribes 
spatial and temporal relations to something, which is invisible itself. 
Only such local observations are possible.

This is very similar to the observation of the local environment on 
different sides of the Earth.

Everywhere the surface looks more or less flat and the horizon slightly 
curved, while the vertical is always vertical.

Now replace 'vertical' with 'axis of time' and 'horizontal' with 
'spacelike'.


TH

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Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2022-07-21 16:36 -0700
  Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2022-07-22 14:29 -0700
    Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light "erkd...@gmail.com" <erkdemon@gmail.com> - 2022-07-31 06:55 -0700
  Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-23 10:47 +0200
    Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Richard Hachel <r.hachel@tiscali.fr> - 2022-07-23 11:18 +0000
      Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-23 10:52 -0500
        Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-24 08:58 +0200
          Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-24 06:15 -0500
            Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-26 08:48 +0200
              Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2022-07-26 08:56 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Maciej Wozniak <maluwozniak@gmail.com> - 2022-07-28 10:11 -0700
              Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-26 10:54 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-27 08:22 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-27 11:44 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-28 10:59 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-28 10:54 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-29 07:50 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-29 10:49 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-30 09:22 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-30 12:01 -0500
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Deane Tanzi <xeuc@ojzoleeb.xq> - 2022-07-30 17:14 +0000
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-31 10:41 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-31 10:49 +0200
                Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light whodat <whodaat@void.nowgre.com> - 2022-07-31 11:07 -0500
          Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Python <python@invalid> - 2022-07-24 14:53 +0200
            Re: Kip Thorne about the Speed of Light Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2022-07-26 08:56 +0200

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