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Groups > aus.electronics > #33005
| From | Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | aus.electronics |
| Subject | Re: OT: Snowy Hydro |
| Date | 2017-03-16 19:55 +1100 |
| Message-ID | <eiv28gFbvi1U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink) |
| References | <eiuhm4F923eU1@mid.individual.net> <7822f04d-f48f-43d5-9d76-6d597b0c0d40@googlegroups.com> <eiv0ucFbnndU1@mid.individual.net> <eiv1moFbsaiU1@mid.individual.net> |
On 16/03/2017 7:40 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote: > On 16/03/2017 7:33 PM, Sylvia Else wrote: >> On 16/03/2017 6:07 PM, Phil Allison wrote: >>> Stupider than anyone Else >>> >>>> >>>> "In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100 megawatts an hour >>>> expected from the battery proposed by the South Australian Government, >>>> but would deliver it constantly for almost a week," [Mr Turnbull] said. >>>> >>>> I thought he'd know better than to come out with such gibberish. Maybe >>>> he was misquoted. >>>> >>> ** It's not it not wrong - just a bit awkward. >>> >>> >>>> That aside, Snowy Hydro is energy limited, because there is only so >>>> much >>>> water (less in extended dry spells). If it produces a higher power >>>> output, it can do so for less time. >>>> >>> >>> ** The high lakes in the Snowy scheme get filled up at night. >>> >>> With water from the lower ones. >>> >>> It's a huge "water battery". >>> >>>> >>>> Maybe the government intends to use the extra power generation only >>>> during extreme demand to avert rolling blackouts. >>>> >>> >>> ** It can do that, but more importantly it allows the storage of >>> excess power in the grid at any time of day. >> >> There isn't an excess of power, there's only an excess of capacity. >> During the day, the marginal excess capacity is gas generation. I >> doesn't make economic sense to use gas to pump water just so that that >> water can be used to displace gas generation on another day. >> >> At night, the marginal generation is sometimes coal based. While it does >> make sense to use coal during the night to pump water that can be used >> later to displace gas, it also substitutes a more polluting form of >> generation for a less polluting one. >> >> In any case, we're not short of generating capacity per se, we're short >> of peak generating capacity that's only required in extreme weather. All >> building additional hydro-generating capacity using pumped storage will >> achieve is to discourage investment in other capacity for use for a >> significant part of the day. It doesn't nothing to address the extreme >> peak capacity issue. >> > > **Yeah, it does. It sucks up surplus energy from coal fired power > stations and stores that energy by raising the level of water. Can it > deal with the most extreme days? Nope. The extra couple of GWh will help > though. Trouble is that you can bet Trumbull's idea is at least a decade > away. We need a solution quicker than that. Having the potential energy in the water is one thing. Having the generating capacity to use it is another. They're proposing to build extra capacity, but if they use it at any time other than when extreme conditions are running us out of capacity, then they're displacing other capacity. Since they displace the capacity with the highest marginal cost, they're displacing gas generation. When potential investors see gas generation being displaced on a regular basis, they'll decide not to build any more gas generation. So all that's been achieved is to use coal fired generation instead of gas generation. > >> The cheapest solution to the problem we actually have is probably diesel. > >**Nope. Not even close. Gas is much cheaper. Gas is cheaper as a fuel, but diesel generators themselves are cheaper. Since they wouldn't be used much the cost of the generator is more significant than the cost of the fuel. Sylvia.
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OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 15:12 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-16 16:39 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Chris <c@b.a> - 2017-03-17 14:33 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-17 20:29 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 21:20 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 04:12 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-17 23:12 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-19 22:00 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-20 08:18 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-20 08:53 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-20 20:47 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2017-03-21 16:47 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 19:41 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-28 00:02 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:30 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 15:43 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 17:24 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 22:09 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 08:27 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 11:06 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 11:21 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 13:28 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 15:22 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 17:19 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-28 17:28 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 16:44 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 20:16 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 22:06 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 05:20 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 06:06 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:34 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 22:00 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 22:37 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 05:21 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 06:07 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:35 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-28 19:21 +0000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:37 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-29 04:43 +0000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 19:21 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 21:52 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 03:14 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 10:53 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 21:53 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-29 22:48 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 03:17 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-31 20:01 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 05:03 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-01 20:01 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 03:01 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-02 14:55 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 16:06 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2017-03-28 14:53 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 16:44 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-28 18:42 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:07 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:51 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 19:33 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-16 19:40 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 19:55 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Adrian Jansen <adrian@qq.vv.net> - 2017-03-17 07:38 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-16 22:12 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-16 10:04 +0000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:28 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 10:39 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:54 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 11:06 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 17:24 -0700
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 12:58 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:24 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 14:45 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:42 +1100
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-16 22:17 +1000
Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:39 +1100
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