Re: OT: Snowy Hydro

From	keithr0 <user@account.invalid>
Newsgroups	aus.electronics
Subject	Re: OT: Snowy Hydro
Date	2017-03-16 22:12 +1000
Message-ID	<eivdq3Fe9i1U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<eiuhm4F923eU1@mid.individual.net> <7822f04d-f48f-43d5-9d76-6d597b0c0d40@googlegroups.com> <eiv0ucFbnndU1@mid.individual.net> <eiv1moFbsaiU1@mid.individual.net>

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On 3/16/2017 6:40 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 16/03/2017 7:33 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 16/03/2017 6:07 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
>>> Stupider than anyone Else
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "In one hour it could produce 20 times the 100 megawatts an hour
>>>> expected from the battery proposed by the South Australian Government,
>>>> but would deliver it constantly for almost a week," [Mr Turnbull] said.
>>>>
>>>> I thought he'd know better than to come out with such gibberish. Maybe
>>>> he was misquoted.
>>>>
>>>    ** It's not it not wrong - just a bit awkward.
>>>
>>>
>>>> That aside, Snowy Hydro is energy limited, because there is only so
>>>> much
>>>> water (less in extended dry spells). If it produces a higher power
>>>> output, it can do so for less time.
>>>>
>>>
>>>   ** The high lakes in the Snowy scheme get filled up at night.
>>>
>>>    With water from the lower ones.
>>>
>>>     It's a huge "water battery".
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the government intends to use the extra power generation only
>>>> during extreme demand to avert rolling blackouts.
>>>>
>>>
>>> ** It can do that, but more importantly it allows the storage of
>>> excess power in the grid at any time of day.
>>
>> There isn't an excess of power, there's only an excess of capacity.
>> During the day, the marginal excess capacity is gas generation. I
>> doesn't make economic sense to use gas to pump water just so that that
>> water can be used to displace gas generation on another day.
>>
>> At night, the marginal generation is sometimes coal based. While it does
>> make sense to use coal during the night to pump water that can be used
>> later to displace gas, it also substitutes a more polluting form of
>> generation for a less polluting one.
>>
>> In any case, we're not short of generating capacity per se, we're short
>> of peak generating capacity that's only required in extreme weather. All
>> building additional hydro-generating capacity using pumped storage will
>> achieve is to discourage investment in other capacity for use for a
>> significant part of the day. It doesn't nothing to address the extreme
>> peak capacity issue.
>>
>
> **Yeah, it does. It sucks up surplus energy from coal fired power
> stations and stores that energy by raising the level of water. Can it
> deal with the most extreme days? Nope. The extra couple of GWh will help
> though. Trouble is that you can bet Trumbull's idea is at least a decade
> away. We need a solution quicker than that.
>
>> The cheapest solution to the problem we actually have is probably diesel.
>
> **Nope. Not even close. Gas is much cheaper.
>
>
This seems a better idea

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/plans-for-a-24-hour-solar-thermal-plant-earn-environmental-approval-in-chile/

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OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 15:12 +1100
  Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-16 16:39 +1100
    Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Chris <c@b.a> - 2017-03-17 14:33 +1100
      Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-17 20:29 +1100
        Re: OT: Snowy Hydro F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-17 21:20 +1100
          Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-17 04:12 -0700
          Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-17 23:12 +1100
            Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-19 22:00 +1000
              Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-20 08:18 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-20 08:53 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-20 20:47 +1000
              Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2017-03-21 16:47 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-27 19:41 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-28 00:02 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 03:30 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 15:43 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 17:24 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 22:09 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 08:27 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 11:06 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 11:21 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 13:28 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-28 15:22 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 17:19 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Lucifer Morningstar <Barry@saymyname.com> - 2017-03-28 17:28 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 16:44 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 20:16 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Chris Jones <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> - 2017-03-28 22:06 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 05:20 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 06:06 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:34 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 22:00 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-28 22:37 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 05:21 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-29 06:07 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:35 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-28 19:21 +0000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 09:37 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-29 04:43 +0000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 19:21 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 21:52 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 03:14 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-29 10:53 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-29 21:53 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro F Murtz <haggisz@hotmail.com> - 2017-03-29 22:48 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-30 03:17 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-31 20:01 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-01 05:03 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-01 20:01 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 03:01 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-04-02 14:55 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-04-02 16:06 +1000
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Gordon Levi <gordon@address.invalid> - 2017-03-28 14:53 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2017-03-28 16:44 +1100
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> - 2017-03-28 18:42 +1100
  Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:07 -0700
    Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 00:51 -0700
    Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 19:33 +1100
      Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Trevor Wilson <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> - 2017-03-16 19:40 +1100
        Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-16 19:55 +1100
          Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Adrian Jansen <adrian@qq.vv.net> - 2017-03-17 07:38 +1000
        Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-16 22:12 +1000
      Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-03-16 10:04 +0000
      Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 15:28 -0700
        Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 10:39 +1100
          Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 16:54 -0700
            Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 11:06 +1100
              Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> - 2017-03-16 17:24 -0700
                Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 12:58 +1100
          Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:24 +1100
            Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2017-03-17 14:45 +1100
              Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:42 +1100
    Re: OT: Snowy Hydro keithr0 <user@account.invalid> - 2017-03-16 22:17 +1000
      Re: OT: Snowy Hydro Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-03-16 22:39 +1100

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