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Groups > sci.math > #625705

Re: Ordinals

From Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net>
Newsgroups sci.math
Subject Re: Ordinals
Date 2024-02-27 14:25 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <e001f1ca-b302-46e2-a0f8-bb77508df7e2@att.net> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <G9GyyDplthr8FEUv73Z4g75-jek@jntp> <a91d312a-5782-4408-99a4-01e23dba936f@att.net> <MhlSS9xIp1LJFzMC_jl-sw-RPbo@jntp> <4485f066-345f-406b-a5c2-4139910cf512@att.net> <3xtILSwZ23f1EUFhZbWPwG47aFA@jntp>

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On 2/23/2024 3:47 AM, WM wrote:
> Le 22/02/2024 à 17:13, Jim Burns a écrit :

>> ...]
>
> Having three corners is essential for triangles.
> Being well-ordered is essential for ordinals.
> What I meant is that
> we cannot follow the well-order into the dark realm.
> In particular Peano ceases.

"Following the well.order" is a metaphor.

I am not a Form..
I've never met you. Still, I'm confident that
you aren't a Form, either.
We aren't in the same Realm as the ordinals.
Un.metaphorically, in our Realm,
we have no opportunity to follow or to not.follow
the well.order.

What I gather that you (WM) are asserting by metaphor
is a wrong assertion.

> Having three corners is essential for triangles.
> Being well-ordered is essential for ordinals.
> What I meant is that
> we cannot follow the well-order into the dark realm.
> In particular Peano ceases.

We know that Peano induction not.ceases in
the Peano (final) ordinals.

It is a mistake to expect more than
Peano induction not.ceasing in
the Peano (final) ordinals.

We know that transfinite induction not.ceases in
the transfinite ordinals.

It is a mistake to expect more than
transfinite induction not.ceasing in
the transfinite ordinals.

We know that
being well.ordered not.ceases in
the transfinite ordinals.
Even beyond the first _inaccessible_ ordinal κ
being well.ordered not.ceases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inaccessible_cardinal
| In set theory, an uncountable cardinal is inaccessible
| if it cannot be obtained from smaller cardinals by
| the usual operations of cardinal arithmetic.

We know that because
transfinite induction is well.order in drag.
Thus, just like well.order,
transfinite induction not.ceases in the ordinals.

----
Well.ordering not.ceases in the ordinals.

If exists ordinal γ: p(γ)
then exists first ordinal β: p(β)

∃ᵒʳᵈγ:p(γ)  ⟹  ∃#1ᵒʳᵈβ:p(β)

∃ᵒʳᵈγ:p(γ)  ⟹  ∃ᵒʳᵈβ:(p(β) ∧ ¬∃ᵒʳᵈα<β:p(α))

¬∃ᵒʳᵈβ:(p(β) ∧ ¬∃ᵒʳᵈα<β:p(α))  ⟹  ¬∃ᵒʳᵈγ:p(γ)

∀ᵒʳᵈβ:(¬p(β) ∨ ¬∀ᵒʳᵈα<β:¬p(α))  ⟹  ∀ᵒʳᵈγ:¬p(γ)

∀ᵒʳᵈβ:(​̅p(β) ∨ ¬∀ᵒʳᵈα<β:​̅p(α))  ⟹  ∀ᵒʳᵈγ:​̅p(γ)

∀ᵒʳᵈβ:(∀ᵒʳᵈα<β:​̅p(α) ⇒ ​̅p(β))  ⟹  ∀ᵒʳᵈγ:​̅p(γ)

∀ᵒʳᵈβ:(​̅pᣔ[0,β) ⇒ ​̅pᣔ[0,β⁺¹))  ⟹  ∀ᵒʳᵈγ:​̅p(γ)

where
​̅pᣔ[0,β)  ⟺  ∀ᵒʳᵈα<β:​̅p(α)
​̅pᣔ[0,β) ∧ ​̅p(β)  ⟺  ​̅pᣔ[0,β⁺¹)

If, for each ordinal β
​̅p.before.β implies ​̅p.before.β⁺¹
then, for each ordinal γ  ​̅p

Transfinite induction not.ceases in the ordinals.

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Thread

Re: Ordinals "markus...@gmail.com" <markusklyver@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 11:35 -0800
  Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-20 20:54 +0100
    Re: Ordinals "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 11:59 -0800
  Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 12:15 -0800
    Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 12:27 -0800
    Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-20 17:02 -0500
      Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 19:36 -0800
        Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2024-02-21 05:47 -0800
          Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2024-02-21 05:50 -0800
            Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <bursejan@gmail.com> - 2024-02-21 06:16 -0800
        Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-21 10:24 -0800
          Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 09:03 +0100
            Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 09:11 +0100
            Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-22 10:16 -0800
              Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 19:20 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 19:22 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 19:40 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 20:00 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-22 10:55 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 20:08 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 20:13 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-22 11:01 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 20:11 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-22 20:13 +0100
            Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-22 14:34 -0500
              Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-22 11:39 -0800
              Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-23 00:41 +0100
      Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-21 08:33 +0000
        Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-21 12:59 -0500
          Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-22 13:00 +0000
            Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-22 11:13 -0500
              Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-23 08:47 +0000
                Semanticists candy (Was: Ordinals) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-26 12:58 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-27 14:25 -0500
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-27 11:59 -0800
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-27 20:05 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-27 17:24 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-28 09:48 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-02-28 06:52 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-28 17:24 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-02-28 17:07 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-29 08:23 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-02-29 07:35 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-02-29 19:25 +0000
                Re: Ordinals "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2024-02-29 13:48 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-02-29 22:12 -0500
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-02-29 19:36 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 20:38 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 20:52 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 21:08 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-03-01 15:56 -0500
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 22:53 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 23:11 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-01 23:33 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Jim Burns <james.g.burns@att.net> - 2024-03-01 19:41 -0500
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-01 20:15 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-02 10:49 -0800
                Re: Ordinals Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-03-02 20:40 +0100
                Re: Ordinals Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2024-03-01 14:45 -0800
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-03-01 08:47 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-03-01 09:44 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-03-01 18:29 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-03-01 14:00 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-03-02 12:36 +0000
                Re: Ordinals Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-03-02 09:22 -0500
                Re: Ordinals WM <wolfgang.mueckenheim@tha.de> - 2024-03-02 15:25 +0000
  Re: Ordinals "mitchr...@gmail.com" <mitchrae3323@gmail.com> - 2024-02-20 17:21 -0800
    RSemanticists candy (Re: Ordinals) [Addendum] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2024-02-26 13:01 +0100

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