Re: Makefile dependency graphs

From	Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM>
Newsgroups	comp.unix.programmer, comp.os.ms-windows.programmer.win32, comp.os.os2.programmer.misc
Subject	Re: Makefile dependency graphs
References	(3 earlier) <838c970a-2b0d-41a8-a029-f5ec491bdbd1@v36g2000prm.googlegroups.com> <835fb0fd-4cd5-4caf-9d8d-c5022400d9fb@d19g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <IU.D20110429.T015530.P403.Q1@J.de.Boyne.Pollard.localhost> <0olp88-1qn.ln1@wilbur.25thandClement.com> <83a3dddf-e528-42ec-9156-14c62d652bd3@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
Message-ID	<IU.D20110429.T190847.P1051.Q0@J.de.Boyne.Pollard.localhost> (permalink)
Organization	virginmedia.com
Date	2011-04-29 20:08 +0100

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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> I've found 3 distinct problems that require some interesting "makefile 
> coding" to get incrementally correct.
>
> 1- Remove a node from a wildcard list. [...]
> 2- Add a node which hides another on a search path. [...]
> 3- Change compilation options.  [...]
>
You're following a path that has been trodden before, long since.  Dan 
Bernstein identified these same issues years ago.  He covered more in 
mail messages than has, alas, survived on WWW pages, but here are the 
WWW pages:

     http://cr.yp.to/redo.html
     http://cr.yp.to/redo/honest-script.html
     http://cr.yp.to/redo/honest-nonfile.html

I know of two redo implementations.  There's the one from 2010 that's in 
macports:

     http://apenwarr.ca/log/?m=201012#14
     http://trac.macports.org/browser/trunk/dports/devel/redo/Portfile
     
https://github.com/apenwarr/redo/blob/master/Documentation/redo.md#readme

And there's the 2006 one by Alan Grosskurth:

     http://grosskurth.ca/papers/mmath-thesis.pdf

The downside of the "redo" model is that it makes it difficult to 
separate object code directories from source code directories.  But the 
operation of the tool (including the implicit redo-ifcreates of the .do 
files themselves) does indicate what one has to incorporate into a build 
mechanism if one truly wants the so-called "incremental correctness" 
that you are striving for.  (Bernstein calls it "honest dependencies", 
notice.)

I was rather hoping that you had something new, but it looks like you've 
covered the same ground as others have before.  This is not, of course, 
a bad thing.  Independently coming to the same conclusions is a good 
thing.  It provides evidence that those conclusions are right.  But from 
the perspective of people like me (I wrote my first "make" replacement 
sometime around 1991.), the problems to be tackled *now* are not what 
the problems are that "make" has, which (as noted) have long since been 
identified.  The problems to be tackled *now* are how to make something 
like "redo" usable for projects where one has needs such as read-only 
source trees with separate object trees, multiple object trees for 
cross-compiling to multiple target platforms, and so forth.  One can do 
those with "make".  It's not obvious how one does them with "redo".

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Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-25 04:54 -0700
  Re: Makefile portability Leclerc <gordan.sikic.remove@this.inet.hr> - 2011-04-26 08:51 +0200
    Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-26 04:25 -0700
    Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-04-26 16:18 +0100
      Re: Makefile portability William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-04-26 11:19 -0700
        Re: Makefile portability Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-27 18:53 +0100
          Re: Makefile portability "Charlie Gibbs" <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2011-04-27 14:14 -0800
            Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-30 01:07 -0700
              Re: Makefile portability Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-30 13:45 +0100
            Re: Makefile portability Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-30 13:14 +0100
            Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-28 00:02 -0700
              Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-28 20:43 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-28 13:57 -0700
                Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 11:18 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-29 20:43 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 11:38 +0100
              Re: Makefile portability and file utility programs Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-29 20:27 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-29 15:26 -0700
                Re: Makefile portability Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2011-04-29 23:45 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 11:26 +0100
      Re: Makefile portability Leclerc <gordan.sikic.remove@this.inet.hr> - 2011-04-27 09:28 +0200
  Re: Makefile portability Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-26 11:28 -0700
    Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-04-26 21:41 +0100
      Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-26 23:17 -0700
        Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-04-27 14:08 +0100
      Re: Makefile portability Leo Havmøller <rtxleh@nospam.nospam> - 2011-04-27 13:15 +0200
        Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-27 05:50 -0700
          Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-28 20:36 +0100
            Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-28 14:12 -0700
              Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 11:03 +0100
                Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-29 09:30 -0700
      Re: Makefile portability Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 15:08 -0700
        Re: Makefile portability Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-27 15:17 -0700
          Re: Makefile dependency graphs gordonb.d36yw@burditt.org (Gordon Burditt) - 2011-04-30 02:02 -0500
            Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 00:36 -0700
          Re: Makefile dependency graphs Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-04-30 01:13 -0700
            Re: Makefile dependency graphs William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-04-30 11:30 -0700
              Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-30 15:44 -0700
              Re: Makefile dependency graphs Michael Press <rubrum@pacbell.net> - 2011-05-03 11:48 -0700
          Re: Makefile dependency graphs Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-30 12:59 +0100
          Re: Makefile dependency graphs Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-29 02:55 +0100
            Re: Makefile dependency graphs William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-04-28 19:52 -0700
              Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 02:10 -0700
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2011-04-29 20:59 +0100
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 15:21 -0700
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Jonathan de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard-newsgroups@NTLWorld.COM> - 2011-04-29 20:08 +0100
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 15:08 -0700
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 16:11 -0700
              Re: Makefile dependency graphs William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-04-29 16:03 -0700
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 16:48 -0700
                Re: Makefile dependency graphs Joshua Maurice <joshuamaurice@gmail.com> - 2011-04-29 16:54 -0700
  Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-04-28 20:33 +0100
    Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-04-28 14:20 -0700
    Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-04-30 18:03 +0100
      Re: Makefile portability William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-04-30 12:01 -0700
      Re: Makefile portability Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2011-05-01 12:33 +0100
        Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-02 03:44 +0100
          Re: Makefile portability William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-05-01 21:27 -0700
          Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-05-02 00:11 -0700
      Re: Makefile portability Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2011-05-02 13:41 +0100
        Re: Makefile portability Freedom on the Oceans <alex.buell@munted.org.uk> - 2011-05-02 14:36 +0100
          Re: Makefile portability tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-05-02 08:09 -0700
        Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-02 23:49 +0100
          Re: Makefile portability Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> - 2011-05-03 10:41 +0100
            Re: Makefile portability Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> - 2011-05-05 08:30 +0100

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