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non-mainstream web (browsers)

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Followups directed to: comp.infosystems.www.misc

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>>>>> On 2025-06-10, Paul Rubin wrote:
>>>>> anthk <anthk@openbsd.home> writes:

	I'm admittedly conflicted on responding to an off-topic thread,
	and two months after the discussion has concluded at that.
	Still, it mentions Lynx, and...  Well, I'm going to cross-post
	to (little-used) comp.infosystems.www.misc and set Followup-To:
	on the odd chance someone might be interesting in discussing
	this further there.

 >> Most of these "web sites" are irrelevant to me. 

	By the by, I'd like to note that the lifestyle argument works
	both ways.  I've started using web c. 1998, and within a few
	years, settled on Lynx as my primary browser.  (I have a Lynx
	"bookmarks" file dated August 2001, for example.)  I doubt indoor
	plumbing is a suitable comparison, but driving a car perhaps is.

	And indeed, switching to, say, Chromium now feels like a big
	lifestyle change to me.  Not unlike starting to drive a car.
	Sure, it has its benefits, but it also has its costs, both in
	terms of responsibility, and in terms of buying gas (for a car)
	or new hardware (for Chromium.)

	Being somewhat of a retrocomputing enthusiast (from whence
	interest in Forth), I'd say relying on Lynx fits my lifestyle
	better anyway.

 > Can you read sfgate.com?  That's a major news site near here.

	I can read it via Wayback Machine [1] at the least; e. g.:

 SFG> After November flop, California Forever launches new city concept

 SFG> An aerial rendering of where the original planned community by
 SFG> California Forever would fit into Solano County.

 SFG> A California city tried to triple in size.  Then came the rebellion.

[1] http://web.archive.org/web/20250730/http://sfgate.com/

	(FWIW, I have this cheap China-made radio that I listen to news
	broadcast locally on UHF/FM on.  And every once in a while, I can
	catch shortwave CRI broadcasts on it, too.)

 > Interestingly, I'm able to read apnews.com with lynx.  With firefox,
 > I'm impeded by Cloudflare Turnstile which is basically a JS-dependent
 > captcha.

	The "solve-to-read" captchas generally are JS-based, IME.
	(Unlike those for posting comments or registering an account.)

	I haven't noticed sites skipping a captcha for non-JS browsers
	myself, TBH, though I have noticed sites skipping JS-based ads
	for Lynx.  Can't say I feel disadvantaged by it.

 > I get a 403 from this with lynx:
 > https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13768935/1/Harry-Potter-and-A-Galaxy-Far-Far-Away

	Years ago, I've got an impression that Fanfiction (and some
	other servers) reacted badly to "libwww" in Lynx' User-Agent:.
	I'd venture to guess it might be related to an unrelated Perl
	library (libwww-perl AKA LWP), presumably at one point popular
	among bot writers, also having "libwww" in User-Agent:.

	I /think/ Fanfiction acquired a bunch of restrictions on top
	of that over the years, though.  Generally, I'd suggest using
	Wayback Machine here as well, but that particular story doesn't
	seem to be archived.

	FWIW, I've been able to read most of "Darth Vader: Hero of Naboo"
	that way last year; see (URI split for readability):

https://web.archive.org/web/20240914132402/
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/11730208/1/Darth-Vader-Hero-of-Naboo

 > That site also uses Turnstile.  Turnstile is becoming extremely
 > widespread across the net, to push away AI scrapers.

	FSF has recently commented, if tangentially, on that in [2].
	(They've pointed out that Anubis captcha might be free, but
	it's still essentially malware.)

	I believe I understand, to a degree, the issues involved
	in running a website this day and age, but this particular
	solution gets no sympathy from me.  If anything, it seems
	like a web counterpart to hostile architecture [3].

[2] http://fsf.org/blogs/sysadmin/our-small-team-vs-millions-of-bots
[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_architecture

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Thread

non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-09 14:05 +0000
  Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-09 19:53 +0000
    Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-10 08:15 +0000
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 00:47 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:55 +0000
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-11 23:00 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-13 10:21 +1000
          Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-13 19:18 +0000
        [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:55 +0000
          Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-15 16:42 +0000
            Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 21:25 +0000
              Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-17 02:07 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-17 22:47 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-19 21:02 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-22 18:39 +0000
                I complain! Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-17 22:55 +0000
        non-mainstream web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:05 +0000
          Re: non-mainstream web Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 21:42 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-17 07:12 +0000
            (non-)mainstream web and its costs Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:00 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:17 +0000
        non-mainstream web browsers Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:55 +0000
          Re: non-mainstream web browsers Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 22:46 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web browsers Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:13 +0000
              Re: non-mainstream web browsers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-13 23:02 +0000
    Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 08:53 -0700
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-11 21:51 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 14:57 -0700
          Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-13 18:43 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 12:14 -0700
              Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-08-13 12:48 -0700
              Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-15 15:14 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 09:03 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 23:36 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-17 07:09 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 10:45 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-18 23:25 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-19 08:14 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-19 21:58 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 00:39 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-25 03:24 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) "B. Pym" <Nobody447095@here-nor-there.org> - 2025-08-24 14:42 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-08-24 19:41 +0200

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