Re: non-mainstream web (browsers)

From	John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth, comp.infosystems.www.misc
Subject	Re: non-mainstream web (browsers)
Date	2025-08-18 10:45 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<20250818104555.00004350@gmail.com> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <107imbr$1nk0$1@dont-email.me> <20250813121414.0000180d@gmail.com> <107nita$161ct$1@dont-email.me> <20250815090319.00004318@gmail.com> <107r4mp$206g0$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 23:36:57 -0000 (UTC)
Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> wrote:

> > I'm not dictating what anyone else should use, or even what they
> > should specifically work to support.  
> 
> But you are.  You just *think* you’re being sly about it by
> pretending that it’s the oh-so-evil people running web sites that are
> making it hard for the oh-so-good people making their 8 billion
> different choices. Sorry, no, you’re just trying to reframe “the
> other” as the dictator so *you* can be the dictator of what a *true*
> web site should be.

I will clarify for the sake of being clear, though I doubt it'll keep
you from firing back with another "no u" - I'm *not* demanding that
anybody specifically work to support Browser XYZ. What I *do* expect out
of Web designers is some bare minimum of thought put into designing
with an eye towards graceful degradation, which (while never perfect)
has been possible since the beginning and remains so today.

I'm talking about basic, *basic* stuff here - things like not depending
on Javascript to load and display static page content, not hiding all
your site navigation behind a hamburger button and CSS pop-over, and
for the love of all that is good and holy *not* redirecting unfamiliar
user agents to a screw-you-for-not-using-an-Approved-Browser page.

These are *not* hard things - in fact, it usually takes more work to do
the Bad Behavior than to *not* do it. They don't require designers to
spend hours fiddling with their site design to work around Browser XYZ's
esoteric CSS support or tendency to choke on emoji glyphs or whatever;
they just require designers to *not* do things that they shouldn't be
doing anyway.

It's not dictatorial to expect that of Web designers; it is (or ought
to be) a basic qualification of the profession, in the same way that,
if you build a chair that falls apart the moment someone sits a little
too far to the left in it or clunks the occupant with a clown hammer
because they didn't do a little dance first, you're objectively a bad
furniture designer.

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Thread

non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-09 14:05 +0000
  Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-09 19:53 +0000
    Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-10 08:15 +0000
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 00:47 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:55 +0000
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-11 23:00 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2025-08-13 10:21 +1000
          Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-13 19:18 +0000
        [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-14 12:55 +0000
          Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-15 16:42 +0000
            Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 21:25 +0000
              Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-17 02:07 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-17 22:47 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-19 21:02 +0000
                Re: [OT] appreciating things old and old-fashioned Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-22 18:39 +0000
                I complain! Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-17 22:55 +0000
        non-mainstream web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:05 +0000
          Re: non-mainstream web Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 21:42 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-17 07:12 +0000
            (non-)mainstream web and its costs Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:00 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:17 +0000
        non-mainstream web browsers Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-08-15 15:55 +0000
          Re: non-mainstream web browsers Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 22:46 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web browsers Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.netREMOVE.invalid> - 2025-09-13 19:13 +0000
              Re: non-mainstream web browsers Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-09-13 23:02 +0000
    Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 08:53 -0700
      Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-11 21:51 +0000
        Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-11 14:57 -0700
          Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-13 18:43 +0000
            Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-13 12:14 -0700
              Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2025-08-13 12:48 -0700
              Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-15 15:14 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-15 09:03 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-16 23:36 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-17 07:09 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-18 10:45 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-18 23:25 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-19 08:14 -0700
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-19 21:58 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 00:39 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) Doc O'Leary ,   <droleary.usenet@2023.impossiblystupid.com> - 2025-08-25 03:24 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) "B. Pym" <Nobody447095@here-nor-there.org> - 2025-08-24 14:42 +0000
                Re: non-mainstream web (browsers) albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2025-08-24 19:41 +0200

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