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Groups > comp.lang.c > #172596

Re: Build Systems

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c
Subject Re: Build Systems
Date 2023-08-20 20:48 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87edjxts00.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (16 earlier) <011f0102-1241-464c-b628-0350c0be29fbn@googlegroups.com> <87cyzjx4ob.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <66629235-f2e0-46e0-bcb1-bf3abe1e33cdn@googlegroups.com> <87edjyvdba.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <038f3d41-228f-4f22-9086-8596e9022057n@googlegroups.com>

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bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sunday, 20 August 2023 at 00:10:38 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Saturday, 19 August 2023 at 01:21:58 UTC+1, Ben Bacarisse wrote: 
>> >> bart c <bart...@gmail.com> writes: 
>> >
>> >> > That is, you want to be able to type: 
>> >> > 
>> >> > X 
>> >> > 
>> >> > and not: 
>> >> > 
>> >> > X Y 
>> >> No, I want to type 
>> >> 
>> >> make 
>> >> make tests 
>> >> make install 
>> >> make clean 
>> >> make mylib.a 
>> > 
>> > I'm not familiar with how make is used.
>> You have very strong opinions about something you don't know much about.
>
> Well, I'm being brow-beaten by so many people into using something I
> don't want to use.

What?!!  How are you being brow-beaten into using make?  Don't use it.
Don't talk about it.  Ignore it.

> Or I'm obliged to use it in building open-source software (something
> I'm rapidly losing interest in).

What software is there that (a) you want to try, (a) forces you to use
make, and (c) does not work "out of the box"?  People here (or in other
groups) could help you get that software to work if you can be specific.
But if the software uses make and does not build out of the box, it's
probably Unix/Liunx only and might too much effort to port.

> I'm seen enough of it to know that I don't like it and it's not for
> me.

Yes, I think most people got that a long time ago.

> Giving you case studies of all the cases where following the build
> rules generally results in failure seems to cut no ice; the problem
> can't possibly be a fragile and error prone process, people have to
> get personal.

If you want the build to work, ask for help.

> The makefile syntax is obscure enough that if something goes wrong, I
> can't fix it. (I've suggested that a build-system for a one-off
> end-user build of a working product should use a streamlined process
> and a simpler makefile; that fell on deaf ears.)

Community software is built by people who want something better.  If you
want to be helpful, contribute a better build script or makefile.  If
you don't want to do that, shrug your shoulders and move on.  That
project did not test the build in (or does not care about) an
environment similar to yours.

> Clearly some of you use 'make' for routine development.

Every day (that I'm programming).  I use for other things too.  I have
some documents I need to maintain on my phone.  Typing "make" builds the
documents from LaTeX and uploads them to my device.  There are a few
files other than the actual text that make tracks dependencies on.  For
example, a shared file has the aspect ratio of my screen.  When I change
phone, the documents are rebuilt.

> I don't;

Right.  But without learning how it works, you want to post message
after message about how awful it is for your uses either real (building
in unsupported environments) or imagined.  Just move on.

> It is in the latter cases where I was coming across invocations of
> programs like gcc where it has invented its own rules and folklore. I
> find that a nuisance.

Whatever it is you mean, you can probably make gcc work how you want
with a one-line shell function or alias.  It's not going to change, no
matter how many posts you write about.  Fix and move on...

> This is where the suggestions start: nobody cares how you invoke gcc,
> it's usually invoked from a makefile script. So I'm slowly drawn into
> something that is 100 times worse than that minor nuisance of typing
> file extensions and providing options that should not be needed.

You are not "drawn in".  You are a grown man.  You can just say "I don't
like that, I prefer to do it may way" and that's that.  Instead you
launch yourself into a critique of a tool you don't use, don't care
about and don't understand.  From the outside, it looks like crazy
behaviour.

>> > You can also choose to give it a shorter name than 'makefile'!
>>
>> Yes, but the typing is not, and never has been, the issue. If the name 
>> is not defaulted everyone has to guess where the rules for this project 
>> are stored.
>
> Tool Projectname

I don't know what that means, but as it seems likely that you are
suggesting an "improvement" to something that no one but you objects to.
Why not just walk away?

>> And it's redundant and intrusive to keep specifying the 
>> configuration, even if it's easy to type.
>
> Well, you have to type something five times, whether it's 'make',
> 'make makefile', 'make lua', or a dedicated script called 'makelua', I
> don't see much difference.

I note that you don't mind that.  Your tools can work that way if you
prefer.  I'm happy with what make does.  I'm happy with what your
tools do as well.

> Having the project name as part of the invocation I see as useful
> information and confirmation of what you are doing. You don't want to
> click on the wrong terminal window out of 6, type 'make', and you find
> it, a bit later, you're building the wrong project.

I note that you prefer everything to be explicit.  I'm happy with what
make does.

>> > gcc is a bad example to follow since it does too much on the command 
>> > line and performs multiple functions.
>> But it's what you were talking about. You seem to want it to do less. 
>> I don't.
>
> I want it to compile C code, not any other language.

OK.  you are out of luck, but I think you have found a compiler that
does what you want, so you are all set are you not?

> But if I invoke it 10,000 times, I have to type .c 10,000 times (times
> the average number of modules) to tell it I'm compiling C and not C++,
> Ada or Fortran. If nothing else, it's not ergonomic.

I note that you don't like typing the .c, yet you haven't written that
one-line function or alias so that gcc does what you want.  It would
have been quicker than typing that paragraph.

> I can fix this by providing wrapper to give the behaviour I want, but
> this seems wrong: gcc is already a driver program, and it's already
> huge, yet I have to provide yet another layer to make it usable?

Spin.  It's usable as it is.  The command alias is to make it suit your
particular requirements.  You can't possibly expect gcc to be written
with your choices in mind, so you have only these options: live with it,
fix it or post about it endlessly on Usenet.

> Just deleting it and forgetting about C seems very attractive.

But for some reason not quite attractive enough.  Why?  That's not
rhetorical.  I really would like to know why you spend this amount of
time on something you don't like and don't want to use.  It's really
odd.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 14:53 +0100
  Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-13 21:45 +0100
    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-13 23:43 +0100
      Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-14 01:16 +0100
        Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 00:46 +0000
          Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 01:05 +0000
            Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 18:59 -0700
              Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 02:44 +0000
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-13 20:53 -0700
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> - 2023-08-17 22:00 +0000
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-18 03:51 -0700
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 04:58 -0700
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) Matthew Ernisse <matt@going-flying.com> - 2023-08-18 13:02 +0000
                Re: Dev on Windoze Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-20 16:14 +0300
                Re: Dev on Windoze "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 11:05 -0700
                Re: Dev on Windoze (Was: Build Systems) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 16:16 -0700
            Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-14 04:03 +0000
              Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-14 10:14 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Karl Meyer <karlmeyer25@gmail.com> - 2023-08-14 05:16 -0700
          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 10:35 +0100
    Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-14 15:06 +0200
      Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 14:58 +0100
        Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:49 +0000
          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 18:00 +0100
            Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 11:00 +0200
              Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:40 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:21 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 16:11 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 15:39 +0000
                Re: Build Systems MJ OS_EXAMINE <m6502x64@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 08:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 16:44 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 20:00 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 18:03 +0200
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-15 17:01 +0000
                Re: Build Systems gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 17:07 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-15 23:17 +0300
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 22:57 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 18:49 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 13:13 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 23:09 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 23:36 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 15:55 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 01:05 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-16 01:39 +0000
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 11:37 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 12:15 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 15:16 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 16:34 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:07 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-16 17:43 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:51 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-16 21:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 22:25 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 00:15 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 01:02 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-17 02:56 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 11:21 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-17 21:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 23:40 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 00:43 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:45 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-18 00:24 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 17:46 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 18:29 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-17 19:13 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 14:55 +0200
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 14:34 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 14:34 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 15:19 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 15:43 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:19 +0200
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 20:56 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 20:57 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-08-27 00:01 -0700
                Re: Build Systems candycane@f172.n1.z21.fsxnet (candycane) - 2023-08-27 03:34 +1300
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-27 08:32 +0000
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-27 16:58 +0200
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 11:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-27 16:52 +0200
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-27 11:59 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-18 01:49 +0000
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 02:19 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 01:21 +0100
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 18:36 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:51 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 05:35 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 00:35 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 09:54 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 12:30 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 13:44 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 17:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 02:28 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kelsey Bjarnason <kbjarnason@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 00:12 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 11:13 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 11:36 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 13:37 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 13:51 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 14:51 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:19 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 09:30 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:51 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 16:36 +0000
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 16:50 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 18:06 +0100
                Re: Build Systems kalevi@kolttonen.fi (Kalevi Kolttonen) - 2023-08-22 20:46 +0000
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 12:47 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-26 21:06 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-22 17:04 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-20 00:10 +0100
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 17:50 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-20 20:48 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-20 22:07 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 00:51 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 01:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 02:02 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 02:07 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 03:13 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 11:09 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 13:12 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 14:12 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:47 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 19:06 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 18:40 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:39 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 12:23 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 21:55 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-22 01:31 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 02:18 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 14:41 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 08:03 -0700
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 15:33 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 16:20 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-22 15:40 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 17:03 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-23 03:18 +0100
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 19:51 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:23 +0100
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 21:24 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 11:31 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 10:53 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 13:55 +0200
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-25 13:54 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 20:55 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-25 20:49 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 08:42 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 11:37 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-23 14:02 +0300
                Re: Build Systems Richard Harnden <richard.nospam@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 15:02 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:17 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 14:28 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-23 19:54 +0300
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-23 19:33 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 21:13 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-23 23:09 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-24 15:32 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 15:51 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-24 18:58 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-24 18:29 +0000
                Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-24 20:41 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 23:08 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2023-08-25 17:22 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Spiros Bousbouras <spibou@gmail.com> - 2023-08-25 16:39 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 16:54 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 17:02 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@talktalk.net> - 2023-08-25 19:21 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 18:56 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 11:44 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 18:47 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-24 21:20 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-24 22:59 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 02:18 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 20:17 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-24 16:30 +0300
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-23 17:43 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-23 20:15 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@gmail.moc> - 2023-08-26 18:19 +0300
                Re: Build Systems Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-26 21:47 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Anton Shepelev <anton.txt@g{oogle}mail.com> - 2023-08-28 11:31 +0300
                Re: Build Systems Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-28 06:48 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 02:11 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 11:27 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-25 13:52 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-25 15:40 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-25 20:04 +0200
                Re: Build Systems candycane@f172.n1.z21.fsxnet (candycane) - 2023-08-26 00:47 +1300
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-25 21:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-26 01:42 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-27 01:16 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-25 05:51 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-24 23:17 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 02:52 +0000
                Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-21 03:02 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-21 06:05 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-21 11:32 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 14:42 +0000
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 08:09 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 15:59 +0000
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 09:38 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 18:16 +0000
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 21:02 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 14:13 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Ike Naar <ike@sdf.org> - 2023-08-19 19:10 +0000
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-19 21:00 +0000
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 14:22 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 17:56 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 18:13 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 14:13 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 06:05 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 16:15 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 09:25 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 13:35 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-21 14:43 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 05:52 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 14:30 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 15:18 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 23:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 16:11 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 14:47 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-21 23:20 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-21 15:45 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-22 00:57 +0100
                Re: Build Systems vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2023-08-20 14:24 +0000
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 09:09 -0700
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-20 17:28 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-08-19 20:26 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 14:50 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Lew Pitcher <lew.pitcher@digitalfreehold.ca> - 2023-08-18 13:19 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 17:16 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 17:24 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 15:32 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-18 07:22 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 07:48 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 17:11 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 08:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 16:32 -0700
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 04:02 -0700
                Re: Build Systems "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-08-22 12:26 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 13:56 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 05:43 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 11:23 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 02:34 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:52 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 03:56 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 13:23 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-16 12:55 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:52 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 02:14 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-17 15:56 +0200
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 16:01 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 09:07 -0700
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 16:20 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-17 09:31 -0700
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-17 17:24 +0000
                Re: Build Systems Phil Carmody <pc+usenet@asdf.org> - 2023-08-19 14:06 +0300
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 04:39 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 16:46 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-19 16:00 +0000
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 14:15 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-20 07:25 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-20 18:03 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-17 19:51 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 16:44 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 08:21 -0700
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-18 15:39 +0000
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-18 17:47 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-18 10:49 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-19 15:16 +0200
                Re: Build Systems bart c <bart4858@gmail.com> - 2023-08-19 07:58 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-19 09:05 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 12:48 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 21:36 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 21:43 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 14:07 -0700
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:46 +0200
              Really? (Was: Build Systems) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2023-08-15 13:15 +0000
        Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 09:54 +0200
          Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:07 +0100
            Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 03:42 -0700
              Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 12:14 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 05:53 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 15:57 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 09:10 -0700
  Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-14 14:49 +0200
    Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-14 14:39 +0100
      Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 11:08 +0200
        Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 02:56 -0700
          Re: Build Systems Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-08-15 03:23 -0700
            Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 11:45 +0100
              Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 03:53 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-15 13:15 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:22 -0700
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 01:20 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 12:57 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 12:19 +0100
                Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-16 15:18 +0200
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:12 +0100
                Re: Build Systems Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2023-08-16 18:18 +0100
                Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-16 17:45 +0000
          Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 15:30 +0200
            Re: Build Systems Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 06:58 -0700
              Re: Build Systems Kaz Kylheku <864-117-4973@kylheku.com> - 2023-08-15 14:06 +0000
              Re: Build Systems David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-08-15 17:08 +0200
        Re: Build Systems Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2023-08-15 21:46 +0100
    Re: Build Systems scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-08-14 15:48 +0000
  Re: Build Systems Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2023-08-15 12:16 -0700
  Re: Build Systems Michael S <already5chosen@yahoo.com> - 2023-08-29 04:43 -0700

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